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So, who will the Chargers pick? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter spider321
- Start date
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
They should take Tunsil but I'm not sure that's what they'll do.
Ben & Jerry's
Footballguy
I think Tunsil is the pick. Not only to help keep Rivers upright but also give last year's #1 a chance to improve.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Ramsey
steelers1080
Footballguy
I bet they trade down.
If they stay put, Buckner or Tunsil.
If they stay put, Buckner or Tunsil.
Tau837
Footballguy
They should trade down, if possible. If not, they should pick Buckner.
Why not Tunsil? Because:
Why not Tunsil? Because:
- They just re-signed starting LT Dunlap last offseason, they owe him $3.3M guaranteed this year, and either owe him $5.75M next season or take a $3.25M cap hit to cut him after this year.
- They just re-signed starting RT Barksdale to a new 4 year deal this offseason, with $10.5M guaranteed.
- They just re-signed backup swing tackle Hairston to a new 2 year deal this offseason, with $550K guaranteed.
- They currently have 6 OL who have spent the majority of their careers in the NFL at OT: starting LT Dunlap, starting RT Barksdale, starting LG Franklin, starting RG Fluker, and backups Hairston and Burwell. And GM Telesco signed every one of them, in some cases twice.
- Their OL has been a disaster for two years running, but the primary reason is not OT, it is center (and injuries). They need to draft a starting center, and that move should result in improved play from the entire OL.
- The Chargers have more holes than they can actually fill in the draft, and their leadership must feel that they need to win now, for multiple reasons:
HC McCoy's job is on the line, and Telesco's could be.
- The team needs to drum up support for their stadium plan.
- They re-signed Rivers last offseason and re-signed Gates this offseason, so they need to avoid a lengthy rebuild to make those decisions really pay off.
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Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Buckner
Mr. Brownstone
Footballguy
If they stay at number 3, I say they'll choose Ramsey or Buckner.
massraider
Footballguy
Buckner. I think they wind up with him, whether they trade down or stay.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I'll go with Buckner.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Buckner fits the 3/4 DE mold better than bosa does. Doesnt jalen rsmsey project as a saftey. Cant see taking a saftey at 3.
Hope someoen wants tunsil and moves up. Or lynch for that matter
Hope someoen wants tunsil and moves up. Or lynch for that matter
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
They essentially have the no. 1 non QB pick now. Keep the pick & go with the best defensive player available.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Buckner and Ramsey are the best fits. Tunsil may be the pick b/c Dunlap is a concussion away from retirement.
If Buckner was a big time pass rusher, I'd lean in his direction. But I don't think he is, so if I was Telesco I'd take Ramsey and take a couple DE's later in the draft since it's such a deep position this year. Ramsey and Verrett have the makings of an outstanding young secondary, and with Brandon Flowers and Casey Heyward, they would be about as good as their is in the league. Assuming Ramsey is as special as advertised.
If Buckner was a big time pass rusher, I'd lean in his direction. But I don't think he is, so if I was Telesco I'd take Ramsey and take a couple DE's later in the draft since it's such a deep position this year. Ramsey and Verrett have the makings of an outstanding young secondary, and with Brandon Flowers and Casey Heyward, they would be about as good as their is in the league. Assuming Ramsey is as special as advertised.
Tau837
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Good comment above about the center IMO.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Amen.lod01 said:
I am all for trading down since Telesco has bungled this roster so badly they need about a half dozen starters out of this draft, but it's almost comical listening to people say Tunsil doesn't fit. Why doesn't he fit? By the start of the season they will have a 31yo journeyman with a history of missing games and accumulating concussions. This pretty much explains the situation with Dunlap better than I could...
http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2016/3/13/11215182/is-it-time-for-the-san-diego-chargers-to-replace-king-dunlap
"This could be King Dunlap's final season with the San Diego Chargers, for two pretty important reasons.
- He has had a lot of concussions. I won't both with "official number of concussions" because that won't be accurate. It's been a lot. It's to the point where every concussion is major, and each game missed due to concussion makes fans, the team, and Dunlap himself wonder if he should even both getting back on the field. He may only be 30 years old but he's probably near the end of his rope as a healthy NFL offensive lineman.
- The team saves a bunch of money if they cut him next offseason. Specifically, they'll save about $13 million cash and about $5 million in cap space next offseason (and nearly $9 million in cap space the offseason after that).
To put it bluntly, King Dunlap is going to need to have a huge 2016 season to convince the team that it would make more sense to keep him in 2017 than release him.
The problem is, the chances of him playing an entire season are pretty low. In four years as a regular starter, Dunlap has started more than 12 games only once (in 2014, when he played in all 16 games with the Chargers). That means he regularly misses at least 25% of the season, and last year he missed more than 50% of the season while dealing with more serious concussions."
Honestly, seems like the same old Chargers.... same old fan base. At the end of the season everyone agrees the OL is trash and Rivers is playing through injuries because of it. I swear they must be selling bottled Flint, MI water in SD because in just a few short months both the team and fan base has convinced themselves that if you bring back the exact same OL(well, with a 4th and 6th rounder of course) then the OL is somehow "fixed". It's insanity. I won't even go into the absurdity of listing Hairston/Burwell on the roster as reasons Tunsil wouldn't be a good fit. Keep in mind Chris Watt was a third rounder, and he was the reason so many of the usual suspects were convinced this team haven't needed to draft/sign a C.
Tau837
Footballguy
From the same article you linked here: "That probably means that the team shouldn't use it's #3 overall draft pick on a Left Tackle, even if Laremy Tunsil is available there. You can't use all of your early draft picks on the offensive line, after all. Or, at least, you shouldn't."
Another more recent article from the same site: Why Laremy Tunsil can’t be the Chargers pick at #3
You seem to be referring to me as one of your "usual suspects," if not your primary one. I have said multiple times this offseason that I think upgrading center should be the team's top priority. I have said they should both draft a starting-caliber center and sign a veteran center. And cut Robinson and move Watt to the bench. Either you aren't aware of these things or you are misrepresenting my position.
I also stated in my mock draft comments that I would have taken C Kelly in the second round if he was available. I considered Nick Martin at that pick as well, and he might have been the more appropriate choice in that situation.
You are right that the Chargers' OL has been "trash," but you seem to purposely ignore that the Chargers' DL has been just as bad, if not worse. Why do you ignore this?
Do you have your own mock draft for the Chargers? Let's see it.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Yeah having guys like dunlap and barksdale dont mean you pass on a stud OT if he is there and he projects better than the DE/DT available
I keep a lot of people project Buckner, but that seems crazy to me. Not that he doesn't fill a need, but he doesn't seem like one of the top-6 talents in this draft class. Hell, I think(not that I'm a genius by any means) that he is the 3rd best DL prospect, behind Rankins and Billings.
Tunsil would be nice, but it sure sounds like they think it was injuries, and not talent that was the problem last year. There could be truth to that, or it could just be a smokescreen.
I think Ramsey is the best DB to come out in since Patrick Peterson, and Ramsey may be even better than him. I think pairing him with Verrett, could improve their defense more than any DL could.
Tunsil would be nice, but it sure sounds like they think it was injuries, and not talent that was the problem last year. There could be truth to that, or it could just be a smokescreen.
I think Ramsey is the best DB to come out in since Patrick Peterson, and Ramsey may be even better than him. I think pairing him with Verrett, could improve their defense more than any DL could.
Tau837
Footballguy
Here is one perspective on why Buckner makes sense for the Chargers: Why DeForest Buckner could change the dynamic of the Chargers
James Daulton
Footballguy
I've hardly seen any mocks that have Buckner going to the Bolts, it's just about always Tunsil.
Tau837
Footballguy
IMO most of the mock drafters are generalists and don't know much about the true team situations. Making your statement unsurprising.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
This is a good take. I tend to agree, but of course I'm just judging Ramsey and Buckner by their pre-draft hype. The consensus seems to be that Ramsey is a freak, once-every-few-drafts kind of talent, whereas Buckner isn't necessarily even a consensus top 10 talent in this years draft. Taking Bucker would seem to prioritize need over talent, and I don't think the Bolts should do that especially considering the need for safety talent.
They have 3 obvious holes at DE, S, and C. Perhaps the plan should be to take Ramsey, and then go either C if Kelly is there in round 2, or best available DE if he isn't. Then take either C or DE in the 3rd, whichever position they haven't addressed.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think this is part of the problem. Telesco thinks months into the future when drafting. He should be thinking in terms of YEARS down the line, not months.
SD has a lot more than 3 obvious holes. Most 4-win teams do.
C - They haven't had one for two years
RG - Fluker last year of his deal, if they keep him they will have to pay him ~$9mil and he has regressed since his rookie year.
LT - Above article, Dunlap be 32 next season, has a mush-mellon, will count $8mil over the cap next season because... he had that one good year in 2014.
TE - By the time the 2017 season starts Gates will be 37. Call me a skeptic but I don't think Cumberland is the future.
DE - Philon or Square? lol
NT - How much does Mebane have left? It's been estimated that teams are spending 33% of the time in base defense recently.
OLB - How much will it cost to keep Ingram now that he finally had ONE good year?
OLB - Attaochu is supposed to be a "breakout" according to Telesco. Does this translate to, "we expected a lot more so far"?
CB - Jeckyl-and-Flowers.... Hayward was a great signing but can he cover outside..... maybe another 3rd rounder to push Mager down to #6 on the depth chart
SS - Maybe Addae can get pushed by whatever a "Matt Daniels" is.
This isn't to say these are their only needs. I mean they are paying a ridiculous amount of $ to Liuget, I liked the Franklin signing but they have to get something for all that money soon or move on, Woodhead is a HUGE part of the offense and will be 32 going into 2017 without a contract, as much as Charger fans refuse to admit it SD really should be grooming someone other than Clemmens behind Rivers. Just look at the lengths these teams are going to if they don't have a QB. How many rookie QB's are ready to step in and start from week #1?
On one hand I think they should trade down(maybe more than once) because they have so many team needs. On the other hand I think they should just draft Tunsil because it would be the first 3-down player Telesco has found in the draft in the past two years..... on a roster with 4 wins. He can't seem to find anyone that can play every down. It's incredible. Several strong off-seasons for Telesco. A few more strong off-seasons and LA will be drafting #1 overall, the other LA team.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I am not sure if they can afford to pass on C at the top of the 2nd based on the cluster-**** they have had in the middle of the line for the past two years straight. It always make me giggle when I hear people defend the Gordon pick due to the poor OL last season. Don't look now but..... IT'S.... THE.... EXACT.... SAME.... OFFENSIVE LINE.
Kelly will be gone but some people think Whitehair will be best in the NFL as a C. Drafting Martin at the top of the 2nd is early but he's probably the last C in this draft ready to start week #1. If they simply would have signed Wisniewiski for $2mil they could afford to wait until the third at the earliest for Tuerk but they need a guy that can start right away. I'll never understand going into the draft DESPERATE for a position.... and then ignoring it.
Tau837
Footballguy
You missed some. In no particular order:
- After releasing Butler and Conner this offseason, they have to add ILB depth, especially since Teo has been injury prone.
- There is no FB on the roster. Seems like Gordon needs one, at least some of the time. Granted, they could potentially just sign a UDFA, but perhaps better to use a 6th/7th round pick to get a guy you want.
- They need to replace Scifres. At least this one should be addressable via UDFA.
- The team already picked up Fluker's option, so they have him through the 2017 season at this point.
- I disagree that CB is an actual need at this point. It would be a luxury to draft another one. Instead, they need Flowers to rebound, Verrett to stay healthy, and/or Mager to improve. The CBs would also look better if they bolster the DL and establish a stronger pass rush.
- I disagree that OLB is a current need. Yes, it may be a need next year or beyond, but they need players at DL, C, S, and ILB players who can start or play significant snaps this year. That isn't the case with OLB.
- The team may feel they already have Woodhead's successor on the roster in Oliver. Not saying Oliver is as good as Woodhead at what Woodhead does well, but he is a very good receiving back. The team likely also hopes Gordon will develop as a receiver so he can absorb some of Woodhead's snaps and make the offense less predictable by personnel. Regardless, this is another one that doesn't rise to the level of a true need this year.
- Disagree on the idea of drafting a QB, for two reasons:
The expectation at this point should be that Rivers will play out his contract, meaning the Chargers would end up with an Osweiler situation, having seen little of a rookie QB on the field before having to decide whether to pick up his optional 5th season. It's too soon.
- They have so many holes, they cannot afford to use a draft pick in the first three rounds on a player who will sit on the bench. But the hit rate on QBs drafted after the first three rounds is pretty abysmal, so it would very likely amount to wasting the pick.
Tau837
Footballguy
I agree. I have done a couple of mocks where Kelly was not available at the Chargers' second round pick, and it felt like a bit of a reach to take Martin there... then he was taken before their third round pick... then you are left taking Tuerk in the third, Allen in the fourth, or something similar.
This is one of the primary reasons I would like to see Telesco trade down from #3. Suppose he could pick up an extra second by moving down (but not too far). He could either bundle two seconds to move up into late first for Kelly or feel better about "reaching" on Martin in the second.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Their current roster sucks. They could add Jesus Christ, Godzilla, and the Incredible Hulk to this team and they'd still struggle to get over .500. They have a ton of holes to fill (I think NT is the biggest if they're going to keep running a 3-4, but good arguments can be made for multiple other positions). So if they can find a good deal in trading down/out of that #3 pick that results in more picks this year and/or additional 1st rounders in subsequent years, that would be the best move. Apart from that, none of the guys on the offensive line are long term answers - none of them should be a reason for not drafting Tunsil if he's clearly the best player available. Similarly with Ramsey. If they think these guys may be perennial pro-bowl quality players, you take them and don't think twice about who you already have at that spot now.BoltBacker said:
What'll really happen is they'll take some obscure middle linebacker with the #3 pick and then shed a bunch of draft picks to trade up into the middle first to draft a WR. That's how this organization seems to "work" these last 8 years or so. Jacob Hester, Ryan Matthews, Melvin Gordon, Manti Teo - unbelievable.
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
Well, if you read between the lines of this quote it almost sounds like Spanos is saying that he's not paying for a real GM until revenues increase(somebody buy me a stadium). That family is the NFL owner equivelant of a slumlord....
“We’re never going to be in the top quartile,” Spanos said. “We don’t expect it. Never have been. Just be competitive. We need to make enough in revenue to be competitive with the top teams … That is why we have the salary cap. There is parity in the league. Just to be able to field as many good players as the high-end clubs.
“This league, the way it’s built, it really comes down to the expertise of your general manager, player personnel, coach. If you have those right, that’s where it’s really going to happen – not because you have the most money. … (Generating more revenue) gives you more to spend for a coach or coaching staff or different front office people you might want to acquire that you might not be able to otherwise because you don’t have enough revenue."
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/feb/16/spanos-conveys-commitment-to-san-diego/2/?chargers#article-copy
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
The #3 pick is going to be Ramsey, regardless whether SD stays there or trades down.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I guess I am just surprised he would come out and admit how important gm/coaches are and blatantly imply that he can't compete for competent front office folks until he gets more revenues. He had the entire southern California market to himself for the past two DECADES and hasn't mustered much of anything. Poor Spanos. Those folks in that giant Green Bay market have it so easy..... it helps them draft competently. Spanos is really flipping the bird to the folks that have supported the team so long more or less he's punishing the fanbase by extending an incompetent, obviously overwhelmed, and unprepared Telesco because he can't afford a real GM until Spanos gets his pacifier, I mean stadium. The city of SD should either make a run at buying the controlling interest of the team away from the Spanos family or simply ignore the team and let them leave. He is such a lecherous villain at this point I would feel guilty getting blackmailed into giving that family $1.
Tau837
Footballguy
I would have to assume Ramsey would start at FS from day one if they take him. They clearly have a better set of corners than safeties. Even if Flowers disappoints again, they have good depth behind him.Saw a mock draft on the ESPN crawl (don't know whose it was) that had the Chargers taking Ramsey.We convinced he can play CB in the pros? I'd hate to spend a #3 overall on a safety.
