Son bad transition to school (1 Viewer)

[ATC1]

Long story short. My son is 4. He has been in speech therapy for almost 2 years. He is a bit hyper (not sitting still, not making eye contact.) We were not sure what age kids get diagnosed with ADHD, but this could be something else. He has not hit out of malice until he started pre-K. Everyday the teacher says he has hit her, the principal and throws his shoes at her. He calls her mean. I have never seen him say that to anyone. He has not been in school a week and they are talking about kicking him out.

We have taken all his toys away from him, sit with him doing nothing but puzzles and books after school until dinner. I spend so much time with him one on one I feel I’m not giving enough attention to my daughter. We are scheduling an appointment with his pediatrician and have a meeting with the school.

Anybody deal with this? I’m starting to break down and get depressed. I really need help.

 

[Jaysus]

:(

 

[Braktastic]

Who throws a shoe? Honestly!

Seriously though. An appointment with a pediatrician is definitely in order. He/she may refer you to a psychologist however. There's something going on no one here is qualified to tell you what it is. He may just simply resent being in school and not be mature enough to deal with the situation.

 

[Drifter]

Long story short. My son is 4. He has been in speech therapy for almost 2 years. He is a bit hyper (not sitting still, not making eye contact.) We were not sure what age kids get diagnosed with ADHD, but this could be something else. He has not hit out of malice until he started pre-K. Everyday the teacher says he has hit her, the principal and throws his shoes at her. He calls her mean. I have never seen him say that to anyone. He has not been in school a week and they are talking about kicking him out.

We have taken all his toys away from him, sit with him doing nothing but puzzles and books after school until dinner. I spend so much time with him one on one I feel I’m not giving enough attention to my daughter. We are scheduling an appointment with his pediatrician and have a meeting with the school.

Anybody deal with this? I’m starting to break down and get depressed. I really need help.

I think there's something here. Has he had any structured learning in a group setting or has it all been 1:1 time? Also, with the speech therapy has he been evaluated for autism and determined to be on the spectrum?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Get a specialist to test him for the autism spectrum... your examples are fairly common for it. And whatever you do love him.

 

[ATC1]

Long story short. My son is 4. He has been in speech therapy for almost 2 years. He is a bit hyper (not sitting still, not making eye contact.) We were not sure what age kids get diagnosed with ADHD, but this could be something else. He has not hit out of malice until he started pre-K. Everyday the teacher says he has hit her, the principal and throws his shoes at her. He calls her mean. I have never seen him say that to anyone. He has not been in school a week and they are talking about kicking him out.

We have taken all his toys away from him, sit with him doing nothing but puzzles and books after school until dinner. I spend so much time with him one on one I feel I’m not giving enough attention to my daughter. We are scheduling an appointment with his pediatrician and have a meeting with the school.

Anybody deal with this? I’m starting to break down and get depressed. I really need help.

I think there's something here. Has he had any structured learning in a group setting or has it all been 1:1 time? Also, with the speech therapy has he been evaluated for autism and determined to be on the spectrum?

He is much better with speech. They were working on transitioning from one activity to another. He was doing much better in day care that they no longer needed his special behavior chart. At the point of starting his behavior chart, we found improvement when we took things away from him. Toys, TV, etc. So, we started that this week and it got worse. I wonder if he is blaming the teachers for him not having his toys.

My wife is confident he doesn't have autism because he understands right from wrong and consequences. But I think there is some certainly some underlying problem.

 

[Ilov80s]

Not much you can do at the point except see the doctor and follow through with any recommendations they have. Some kind of child behaviorist might be someone to speak with. There are definitely a few warning signs here.

 

[Drifter]

Long story short. My son is 4. He has been in speech therapy for almost 2 years. He is a bit hyper (not sitting still, not making eye contact.) We were not sure what age kids get diagnosed with ADHD, but this could be something else. He has not hit out of malice until he started pre-K. Everyday the teacher says he has hit her, the principal and throws his shoes at her. He calls her mean. I have never seen him say that to anyone. He has not been in school a week and they are talking about kicking him out.

We have taken all his toys away from him, sit with him doing nothing but puzzles and books after school until dinner. I spend so much time with him one on one I feel I’m not giving enough attention to my daughter. We are scheduling an appointment with his pediatrician and have a meeting with the school.

Anybody deal with this? I’m starting to break down and get depressed. I really need help.

I think there's something here. Has he had any structured learning in a group setting or has it all been 1:1 time? Also, with the speech therapy has he been evaluated for autism and determined to be on the spectrum?

He is much better with speech. They were working on transitioning from one activity to another. He was doing much better in day care that they no longer needed his special behavior chart. At the point of starting his behavior chart, we found improvement when we took things away from him. Toys, TV, etc. So, we started that this week and it got worse. I wonder if he is blaming the teachers for him not having his toys.

My wife is confident he doesn't have autism because he understands right from wrong and consequences. But I think there is some certainly some underlying problem.

No offense, but your wife is not qualified to diagnose the condition. People think they know what autism is - most of them are wrong or at least misinformed. Your son has it or he does not. If there is some fear of getting it diagnosed because of some misinformed perspective of what that means, you are not doing your son any favors. Get an ADOS test from a qualified person

 

[Drifter]

At a super high level there are 3 main components to an autism diagnosis:

1. Speech issues, most commonly displayed as speech delay

2. Social issues - these can take on any number of different aspects of which empathetic response (what I'm interpreting your wife's right/wrong diagnosis is about) is only one.

3. Repetitive or compulsive behavior.

Not all 3 have to be displayed at all, let alone strongly to determine if a child is on the spectrum. This is why it is referred to as a spectrum.

 

[ATC1]

Long story short. My son is 4. He has been in speech therapy for almost 2 years. He is a bit hyper (not sitting still, not making eye contact.) We were not sure what age kids get diagnosed with ADHD, but this could be something else. He has not hit out of malice until he started pre-K. Everyday the teacher says he has hit her, the principal and throws his shoes at her. He calls her mean. I have never seen him say that to anyone. He has not been in school a week and they are talking about kicking him out.

We have taken all his toys away from him, sit with him doing nothing but puzzles and books after school until dinner. I spend so much time with him one on one I feel I’m not giving enough attention to my daughter. We are scheduling an appointment with his pediatrician and have a meeting with the school.

Anybody deal with this? I’m starting to break down and get depressed. I really need help.

I think there's something here. Has he had any structured learning in a group setting or has it all been 1:1 time? Also, with the speech therapy has he been evaluated for autism and determined to be on the spectrum?

He is much better with speech. They were working on transitioning from one activity to another. He was doing much better in day care that they no longer needed his special behavior chart. At the point of starting his behavior chart, we found improvement when we took things away from him. Toys, TV, etc. So, we started that this week and it got worse. I wonder if he is blaming the teachers for him not having his toys.

My wife is confident he doesn't have autism because he understands right from wrong and consequences. But I think there is some certainly some underlying problem.

No offense, but your wife is not qualified to diagnose the condition. People think they know what autism is - most of them are wrong or at least misinformed. Your son has it or he does not. If there is some fear of getting it diagnosed because of some misinformed perspective of what that means, you are not doing your son any favors. Get an ADOS test from a qualified person

She agrees after this week. Dr.'s nurse will be giving us the name of some specialists.

Another thing he has been doing is that he apologizes and says he does not want to be bad. It melts my heart.

I mostly was looking for some fellow FBGs who dealt with the process, what to expect and make sure we are taking the right steps.

 

[Drifter]

4 is a little late for an autism diagnosis but not uncommon because of lack of education and fear or the label. Treatment will largely depend on what the issues are and what your school system and state offer for support. My wife and I are very fortunate that my son was diagnosed early and is not terribly affected by his traits that fall in the spectrum. To most people he seems like a typical kid and if we didn't tell them, they wouldn't know he "has" autism but those issues still would have held him back and caused him to struggle without treatment.

Washington state is pretty great. My son has been eligible for developmental pre-school which both got him ready for school in general and gave him focused attention on his specific issues. Now that he's entered a "typical" kindergarten class, he continues to get individualized support from the school with a person assigned to him both in the classroom and with 1:1 sessions as needed. The diagnosis also opens up treatment like Speech and Occupational Therapy to be covered by your insurance which is also immensely helpful.

 

[Quez]

Maybe the teacher is mean.

 

[Eviloutsider]

Are you available to go and hang out at school and observe?

 

[Johnny Rock]

Some good advice and support in here ATC1. You're not alone. We're here. You'll be ok. If you feel the need don't be afraid to talk to a psychologist yourself; it really helps when you connect with one.

 

[Parmcat]

Info on the diagnostic scale from the DSM IV:

Diagnostic Criteria for 299.00 Autistic Disorder

[The following is from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders: DSM IV]
(I) A total of six (or more) items from (A), (B), and ©, with at least two from (A), and one each from (B) and ©

• (A) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following: 1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
  2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
  3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people, (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
  4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity ( note: in the description, it gives the following as examples: not actively participating in simple social play or games, preferring solitary activities, or involving others in activities only as tools or "mechanical" aids )

(B) qualitative impairments in communication as manifested by at least one of the following:

• 1. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)
  2. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others
  3. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language
  4. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level

© restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least two of the following:

• 1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
  2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
  3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
  4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

(II) Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years:

• (A) social interaction
  (B) language as used in social communication
  © symbolic or imaginative play

(III) The disturbance is not better accounted for by Rett's Disorder or Childhood Disintegrative Disorder

 

[Ilov80s]

Autism can be very tough to diagnose. I've been in many meetings with multiple experts and test results where there was a lot of disagreement over whether a child had autism.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Maybe the teacher is mean.

I had this thought, too. Have they tried him in a different classroom?

What class is he going into? Is it Kindergarten or Pre-K?

 

[Ilov80s]

Maybe the teacher is mean.

I had this thought, too. Have they tried him in a different classroom?What class is he going into? Is it Kindergarten or Pre-K?

I would certainly talk to other patents and see what they think/have heard about the staff.

 

[El Floppo]

Some good stuff in here, re: autism.

But...

Has your kid every separated before? Is this the first time having to do school/class on his own? If so, although the physical behavior is extreme, his acting out seems normal to me for a kid going through separation for the first time.

I have two kids, 7 & 3, both of whom went to pre-school (@ 2) that started with a parent being in the class and eventually built to separation. My son had a really hard time with me leaving- no violence, but lots of tears and running out of the classroom (caveat, we had a fire the month before school started and were essentially homeless, so separating from anybody or anything was impossible for him- we carried around a backpack full of toys every time we left home).. FWIW, our son was and is in speech therapy, but is not autistic or in the spectrum. ETA: because I was in the class with him (and my daughter) while other kids were separating, I saw the full range of behavior from other kids during this time: from pushing and hitting other kids (granted- there were 2 teachers and only 16 kids) to no problems at all.

When you talk to him about what's going on, what does he say beyond the teacher being mean? What does the teacher say? What's triggering him hitting the teacher?

I know it's hard right now, and you don't want to support how he's acting out (the hitting), but I hope you find a way to support him here and not just punish him- take away his toys. As a kid who hasn't previously acted like this, he's obviously going through something really hard that's making him feel bad enough to act out; he needs your help and support to get through it.

GL!

 

[NCCommish]

The not making eye contact is what made me think of autism personally. Anyway Drifter has really given great advice here and so I will just wish you and your family all the best. Hope the little guy gets whatever he needs.

 

[comfortably numb]

Who throws a shoe? Honestly!

Seriously though. An appointment with a pediatrician is definitely in order. He/she may refer you to a psychologist however. There's something going on no one here is qualified to tell you what it is. He may just simply resent being in school and not be mature enough to deal with the situation.

Good advice in here.

And speaking of shoe throwing, my all time favorite gif

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x89/edwardbayntun/gifs/bush-shoe.gif

Hang in there

 

[ATC1]

Thanks guys. It really helps. Talked to the pediatrician. He gave us the name of a couple of specialist and will call to schedule an appointment. Apparently he pulled his pants down and showed his butt to the principal. That is also something I have never seen him do. I know he is a bit overactive, but this is something new from the start. Wife picked him up and the first words out of his mouth was, "I sorry I did not get a happy face." He continually says he is sorry and wants to get a happy face. Every time he does we tell him what he needs to do.

We will have a school meeting with the staff. They have already said he might not be ready for Pre-K a week in. The wife and I figured he would repeat Pre-K because there is an older classroom and a younger classroom. He is in the younger one already. He is pretty young just turning 4, but they are saying he is acting out like a 2 year old. We will ask about observation. My boss is flexible when I told him, so I will certainly take any time off I need to to make sure he gets the care he needs.

He has been in day care with other kids. Maybe 10 to a classroom. He had a rough patch there, but by a month and a half of the smile face punishment/reward system he was and teachers noticed significant improvement. I knew he wasn't going to be the most well behaved kid, but never expected this.

He sat with my wife while I had some 1 on 1 with my daughter before her gymnastics lessons. Wife said they sat and did some work sheets and everything seems normal for him. He needs to be told to stay seated, but not throwing tantrums.

 

[Jobber]

All good advice above.

Another think, watch his diet. Remove the aritificial dyes specifically as some of them can cause behavioral issues. Just google 'red 40 behavior' and you'll fine dozens if links including this one: http://www.npr.org/2011/03/30/134962888/fda-probes-link-between-food-dyes-kids-behavior

Our daughter, now 10, had pretty bad tantrums and overall behavior at that age. Once we removed the dyes, she did a 180 overnight.

 

[NCCommish]

I know it's a serious issue but I did chuckle at mooning the principal.

 

[johnnycakes]

Yeah, it sounds like autistic spectrum disorder... and this is something I am familiar with, as my kid has dealt with it since about age 2½. What the books won't tell you is how much strain this can put on your marriage because what often happens is the parents do not understand the condition and wind up blaming each other for various things with respect to the kid's behavior and ultimately it leads to a breakdown in the marriage.

That article refers to a number of statistics, but I can tell you from observation of families that see my kid's shrink that about 80% of the families he sees are divorced. Same with the families of his peers at the special school he goes to... I would guess about 80% of the kids come from divorced families, so if you are dealing with ASD, bear in mind how much stress that can put on a relationship.

 

[ChiefD]

I know it's a serious issue but I did chuckle at mooning the principal.

Yeah, that reminded me of the time when my son was at pre-school when he was 3, and the class was out on the playground. All of a sudden my son pulls down his pants and starts to pee in the grass. The teacher rushes over there horrified, and my son looks at her and says: "This is how me and daddy go potty behind the garage."



As for the OP, this stuff does happen with kids. Everyone here is spot on with making sure there is nothing else going on. It may simply be that he's a young 4 and this is part of his progression.

 

[Quez]

Never go against the family. If your kid says the teacher is mean, then you need to grab his back 100% and start treating her like a mean b****.

Does your kids name happen to be Jonnah from Tonga? Man that kid is bad.

 

[Ilov80s]

Why does everyone keep throwing around autism? Because he had speech issues and has behavior problems??? Am I missing something else?

 

[johnnycakes]

Why does everyone keep throwing around autism? Because he had speech issues and has behavior problems??? Am I missing something else?

Yeah, you're missing the no eye contact part.

 

[Drifter]

Why does everyone keep throwing around autism? Because he had speech issues and has behavior problems??? Am I missing something else?

Speech delay is one of the three legs of the diagnosis. Combine it with some of the other behaviors that can be associated with the Autism spectrum and it's wise to get a diagnosis. Why wouldn't you? The only reason not to is one's own fear and misconceptions about the diagnosis.

 

[Ilov80s]

Why does everyone keep throwing around autism? Because he had speech issues and has behavior problems??? Am I missing something else?

Yeah, you're missing the no eye contact part.

Thanks, that is what I missed, I knew it had to be something.

 

[Ilov80s]

When you say not making eye contact, do you mean ever? You mentioned he is hyper so is it that he doesn't make eye contact because his focus seems all over the place or because he just doesn't ever make contact even when he seems calm and not distracted?

 

[Ilov80s]

Why does everyone keep throwing around autism? Because he had speech issues and has behavior problems??? Am I missing something else?

Speech delay is one of the three legs of the diagnosis. Combine it with some of the other behaviors that can be associated with the Autism spectrum and it's wise to get a diagnosis. Why wouldn't you? The only reason not to is one's own fear and misconceptions about the diagnosis.

Of course it's a good idea to have your child evaluated if there are issues, I was just wondering why people were jumping on autism as opposed to any of the other many possible issues. BTW, this is what I went to college for and do for a living. I'm not being dismissive of getting help, just dismissive of what seems like rushed judgements. Like I posted earlier, I have been in meeting with multiple professionals with all the observations, test results, etc where we weren't able to come to a consensus on an ASD diagnosis.

 

[cstu]

Long story short. My son is 4. He has been in speech therapy for almost 2 years. He is a bit hyper (not sitting still, not making eye contact.) We were not sure what age kids get diagnosed with ADHD, but this could be something else. He has not hit out of malice until he started pre-K. Everyday the teacher says he has hit her, the principal and throws his shoes at her. He calls her mean. I have never seen him say that to anyone. He has not been in school a week and they are talking about kicking him out.

We have taken all his toys away from him, sit with him doing nothing but puzzles and books after school until dinner. I spend so much time with him one on one I feel I’m not giving enough attention to my daughter. We are scheduling an appointment with his pediatrician and have a meeting with the school.

Anybody deal with this? I’m starting to break down and get depressed. I really need help.

Sorry to hear this. I've been dealing with it for nearly four years since my daughter turned two. It sounds like you need to get him evaluated for autism. If he's been getting speech therapy I'm surprised your pediatrician hasn't recommended this already.

Try to get ABA (applied behavioral analysis) for him. They will do the ABA therapy in your home and it worked wonders for my daughter. She still has a lot work on but her behaviors like you mentioned are under control.

 

[cstu]

He is much better with speech. They were working on transitioning from one activity to another. He was doing much better in day care that they no longer needed his special behavior chart. At the point of starting his behavior chart, we found improvement when we took things away from him. Toys, TV, etc. So, we started that this week and it got worse. I wonder if he is blaming the teachers for him not having his toys.

My wife is confident he doesn't have autism because he understands right from wrong and consequences. But I think there is some certainly some underlying problem.

Autism is a spectrum and what your wife is thinking of autism is the classical, or more severe, form of it. I see kids on the spectrum every day and they all understand right/wrong and consequences but have trouble making good choices. A typical kid would think "I better not do that or I'll get in trouble" but a kid on the spectrum might do it impulsively without thinking first. It takes a lot of practice for them to think before doing something and we constantly remind our daughter to "make a good choice".

 

[cstu]

4 is a little late for an autism diagnosis but not uncommon because of lack of education and fear or the label. Treatment will largely depend on what the issues are and what your school system and state offer for support. My wife and I are very fortunate that my son was diagnosed early and is not terribly affected by his traits that fall in the spectrum. To most people he seems like a typical kid and if we didn't tell them, they wouldn't know he "has" autism but those issues still would have held him back and caused him to struggle without treatment.

Washington state is pretty great. My son has been eligible for developmental pre-school which both got him ready for school in general and gave him focused attention on his specific issues. Now that he's entered a "typical" kindergarten class, he continues to get individualized support from the school with a person assigned to him both in the classroom and with 1:1 sessions as needed. The diagnosis also opens up treatment like Speech and Occupational Therapy to be covered by your insurance which is also immensely helpful.

For ATC I want to point out that while 4 is later than ideal, my daughter's greatest gains were from 4 to 5.

California is also fantastic. You really have to fight for services but what is available (speech, OT, ABA) has helped tremendously.

 

[stbugs]

All good advice above.

Another think, watch his diet. Remove the aritificial dyes specifically as some of them can cause behavioral issues. Just google 'red 40 behavior' and you'll fine dozens if links including this one: http://www.npr.org/2011/03/30/134962888/fda-probes-link-between-food-dyes-kids-behavior

Our daughter, now 10, had pretty bad tantrums and overall behavior at that age. Once we removed the dyes, she did a 180 overnight.

Good point. My wife's sister's daughter had some emotional behavior issues, not autistic, but they went gluten free and really watch her diet and her behavior and school work really improved. Definitely a completely different case, but it was pretty amazing to see the difference based on her diet. She is much better adjusted now.

 

[shadyridr]

All good advice above.

Another think, watch his diet. Remove the aritificial dyes specifically as some of them can cause behavioral issues. Just google 'red 40 behavior' and you'll fine dozens if links including this one: http://www.npr.org/2011/03/30/134962888/fda-probes-link-between-food-dyes-kids-behavior

Our daughter, now 10, had pretty bad tantrums and overall behavior at that age. Once we removed the dyes, she did a 180 overnight.

Good point. My wife's sister's daughter had some emotional behavior issues, not autistic, but they went gluten free and really watch her diet and her behavior and school work really improved. Definitely a completely different case, but it was pretty amazing to see the difference based on her diet. She is much better adjusted now.

your niece would have been a lot easier to type

 

[ATC1]

When you say not making eye contact, do you mean ever? You mentioned he is hyper so is it that he doesn't make eye contact because his focus seems all over the place or because he just doesn't ever make contact even when he seems calm and not distracted?

Seems when we are discussing something with him. He needs nothing in his hands, and I need to tell him to look at me. Once he does, he will face me and roll his eyes to the side. I thrown some yes/no questions at him. Like, Are you going to listen to teachers? "uh hun" Do we ever hit? "Nah hun" So, I think he is listening.

 

[Ilov80s]

When you say not making eye contact, do you mean ever? You mentioned he is hyper so is it that he doesn't make eye contact because his focus seems all over the place or because he just doesn't ever make contact even when he seems calm and not distracted?

Seems when we are discussing something with him. He needs nothing in his hands, and I need to tell him to look at me. Once he does, he will face me and roll his eyes to the side. I thrown some yes/no questions at him. Like, Are you going to listen to teachers? "uh hun" Do we ever hit? "Nah hun" So, I think he is listening.

Did you mean to say he need something in his hands? Does he ever approach you and your wife to initiate conversation and make eye contact? Does he like to share personal experiences and express feelings with your family? Are there any repetitive behaviors/rituals/gestures/obsessions?

 

[ATC1]

My initial fear before meeting the principal is that they are going through all the formal steps just to kick him out. Maybe that is just natural to feel that. They have not offered help beyond "contact your pediatrician" at this point. However, we have not had a formal meeting with them yet. Just some notes and a open house before the phone call yesterday. It is next Thursday morning and we will do everything we can until that day to get him evaluated for them to see we are serious about getting help. Right now we are filling out a questionnaire and the child development specialty center will contact us on Monday.

Quez, I figure the first response would be to say the teachers are full of #### since he doesn't act that way at home. I don't like to jump to conclusions on the school and teachers because this is considered one of the nicer private catholic schools in the area. Public schools in Baton Rouge was never considered an option for us. They do have two teachers to cover 24 kids. The main teacher of the class is a 20 year vet for pre-K. She has to have some tolerance, right?

 

[ATC1]

When you say not making eye contact, do you mean ever? You mentioned he is hyper so is it that he doesn't make eye contact because his focus seems all over the place or because he just doesn't ever make contact even when he seems calm and not distracted?

Seems when we are discussing something with him. He needs nothing in his hands, and I need to tell him to look at me. Once he does, he will face me and roll his eyes to the side. I thrown some yes/no questions at him. Like, Are you going to listen to teachers? "uh hun" Do we ever hit? "Nah hun" So, I think he is listening.

Did you mean to say he need something in his hands? Does he ever approach you and your wife to initiate conversation and make eye contact? Does he like to share personal experiences and express feelings with your family? Are there any repetitive behaviors/rituals/gestures/obsessions?

If he has something in his hands he is not focusing on the conversation. More interested in what he is doing. I want to say he makes good eye contact unless he knows he is in trouble or when we ask for his attention. For example taking a picture. He won't look at the camera. Sometimes something else will catch his attention while doing something like coloring and he'll look up while still trying to color.

 

[Ilov80s]

My initial fear before meeting the principal is that they are going through all the formal steps just to kick him out. Maybe that is just natural to feel that. They have not offered help beyond "contact your pediatrician" at this point. However, we have not had a formal meeting with them yet. Just some notes and a open house before the phone call yesterday. It is next Thursday morning and we will do everything we can until that day to get him evaluated for them to see we are serious about getting help. Right now we are filling out a questionnaire and the child development specialty center will contact us on Monday.

Quez, I figure the first response would be to say the teachers are full of #### since he doesn't act that way at home. I don't like to jump to conclusions on the school and teachers because this is considered one of the nicer private catholic schools in the area. Public schools in Baton Rouge was never considered an option for us. They do have two teachers to cover 24 kids. The main teacher of the class is a 20 year vet for pre-K. She has to have some tolerance, right?

If your child does end up having some significant needs, I am not sure how realistic private school will be. Now I am totally unfamiliar with schools in your area, but in Michigan, your kid just isn't going to get any real services in a private school. The Catholic schools won't really go out of their way to help or provide any extra services. They will just kick your kid out. Public schools on the other hand are required by federal law to provide lots of services to students if they are found to have a disability that impacts their education negatively. Public schools will have a lot more resources and properly trained staff than a private school can or will provide.

 

[Ilov80s]

When you say not making eye contact, do you mean ever? You mentioned he is hyper so is it that he doesn't make eye contact because his focus seems all over the place or because he just doesn't ever make contact even when he seems calm and not distracted?

Seems when we are discussing something with him. He needs nothing in his hands, and I need to tell him to look at me. Once he does, he will face me and roll his eyes to the side. I thrown some yes/no questions at him. Like, Are you going to listen to teachers? "uh hun" Do we ever hit? "Nah hun" So, I think he is listening.

Did you mean to say he need something in his hands? Does he ever approach you and your wife to initiate conversation and make eye contact? Does he like to share personal experiences and express feelings with your family? Are there any repetitive behaviors/rituals/gestures/obsessions?

If he has something in his hands he is not focusing on the conversation. More interested in what he is doing. I want to say he makes good eye contact unless he knows he is in trouble or when we ask for his attention. For example taking a picture. He won't look at the camera. Sometimes something else will catch his attention while doing something like coloring and he'll look up while still trying to color.

Does he show interest in other people? Have you seen him play with boys his age? How does it go?

 

[El Floppo]

My initial fear before meeting the principal is that they are going through all the formal steps just to kick him out. Maybe that is just natural to feel that. They have not offered help beyond "contact your pediatrician" at this point. However, we have not had a formal meeting with them yet. Just some notes and a open house before the phone call yesterday. It is next Thursday morning and we will do everything we can until that day to get him evaluated for them to see we are serious about getting help. Right now we are filling out a questionnaire and the child development specialty center will contact us on Monday.

Quez, I figure the first response would be to say the teachers are full of #### since he doesn't act that way at home. I don't like to jump to conclusions on the school and teachers because this is considered one of the nicer private catholic schools in the area. Public schools in Baton Rouge was never considered an option for us. They do have two teachers to cover 24 kids. The main teacher of the class is a 20 year vet for pre-K. She has to have some tolerance, right?

If your child does end up having some significant needs, I am not sure how realistic private school will be. Now I am totally unfamiliar with schools in your area, but in Michigan, your kid just isn't going to get any real services in a private school. The Catholic schools won't really go out of their way to help or provide any extra services. They will just kick your kid out. Public schools on the other hand are required by federal law to provide lots of services to students if they are found to have a disability that impacts their education negatively. Public schools will have a lot more resources and properly trained staff than a private school can or will provide.

depends on the private school, 80s.

here in NYC, there a few private schools set up to deal specifically with kids with autism, or adhd, or more severe disabilities. they are ####### expensive... emphasis on #######- above the typical 40k/year for private school.

 

[stbugs]

All good advice above.

Another think, watch his diet. Remove the aritificial dyes specifically as some of them can cause behavioral issues. Just google 'red 40 behavior' and you'll fine dozens if links including this one: http://www.npr.org/2011/03/30/134962888/fda-probes-link-between-food-dyes-kids-behavior

Our daughter, now 10, had pretty bad tantrums and overall behavior at that age. Once we removed the dyes, she did a 180 overnight.

Good point. My wife's sister's daughter had some emotional behavior issues, not autistic, but they went gluten free and really watch her diet and her behavior and school work really improved. Definitely a completely different case, but it was pretty amazing to see the difference based on her diet. She is much better adjusted now.

your niece would have been a lot easier to type

Love the speed, first post and you caught it!

 

[ATC1]

When you say not making eye contact, do you mean ever? You mentioned he is hyper so is it that he doesn't make eye contact because his focus seems all over the place or because he just doesn't ever make contact even when he seems calm and not distracted?

Seems when we are discussing something with him. He needs nothing in his hands, and I need to tell him to look at me. Once he does, he will face me and roll his eyes to the side. I thrown some yes/no questions at him. Like, Are you going to listen to teachers? "uh hun" Do we ever hit? "Nah hun" So, I think he is listening.

Did you mean to say he need something in his hands? Does he ever approach you and your wife to initiate conversation and make eye contact? Does he like to share personal experiences and express feelings with your family? Are there any repetitive behaviors/rituals/gestures/obsessions?

If he has something in his hands he is not focusing on the conversation. More interested in what he is doing. I want to say he makes good eye contact unless he knows he is in trouble or when we ask for his attention. For example taking a picture. He won't look at the camera. Sometimes something else will catch his attention while doing something like coloring and he'll look up while still trying to color.

Does he show interest in other people? Have you seen him play with boys his age? How does it go?

He went to Day Care with his cousin his age. They say they are best friends and do play together. Sure they get into some shouting matches, but I figure typical stuff. His cousin is also in the pre-K class with him and the teacher says they get along. It's the time where they need to stay on their place on the mat that I think there is a problem. The teach corrects him and he throws the fit. It started off as when the teacher called him on the play ground to running off in the other direction. Now he is acting out saying he doesn't like them. I would really like to observe. He needs to know they are there to help him not to get him into trouble.

 

[cstu]

When you say not making eye contact, do you mean ever? You mentioned he is hyper so is it that he doesn't make eye contact because his focus seems all over the place or because he just doesn't ever make contact even when he seems calm and not distracted?

Seems when we are discussing something with him. He needs nothing in his hands, and I need to tell him to look at me. Once he does, he will face me and roll his eyes to the side. I thrown some yes/no questions at him. Like, Are you going to listen to teachers? "uh hun" Do we ever hit? "Nah hun" So, I think he is listening.

Sounds exactly like my daughter.

 

[cstu]

Long story short. My son is 4. He has been in speech therapy for almost 2 years. He is a bit hyper (not sitting still, not making eye contact.) We were not sure what age kids get diagnosed with ADHD, but this could be something else. He has not hit out of malice until he started pre-K. Everyday the teacher says he has hit her, the principal and throws his shoes at her. He calls her mean. I have never seen him say that to anyone. He has not been in school a week and they are talking about kicking him out.

We have taken all his toys away from him, sit with him doing nothing but puzzles and books after school until dinner. I spend so much time with him one on one I feel I’m not giving enough attention to my daughter. We are scheduling an appointment with his pediatrician and have a meeting with the school.

Anybody deal with this? I’m starting to break down and get depressed. I really need help.

I think there's something here. Has he had any structured learning in a group setting or has it all been 1:1 time? Also, with the speech therapy has he been evaluated for autism and determined to be on the spectrum?

He is much better with speech. They were working on transitioning from one activity to another. He was doing much better in day care that they no longer needed his special behavior chart. At the point of starting his behavior chart, we found improvement when we took things away from him. Toys, TV, etc. So, we started that this week and it got worse. I wonder if he is blaming the teachers for him not having his toys.

My wife is confident he doesn't have autism because he understands right from wrong and consequences. But I think there is some certainly some underlying problem.

No offense, but your wife is not qualified to diagnose the condition. People think they know what autism is - most of them are wrong or at least misinformed. Your son has it or he does not. If there is some fear of getting it diagnosed because of some misinformed perspective of what that means, you are not doing your son any favors. Get an ADOS test from a qualified person

She agrees after this week. Dr.'s nurse will be giving us the name of some specialists.

Another thing he has been doing is that he apologizes and says he does not want to be bad. It melts my heart.

I mostly was looking for some fellow FBGs who dealt with the process, what to expect and make sure we are taking the right steps.

An autism diagnosis is not a bad thing, and in fact is quite the opposite. It sounds like your son is doing well and would benefit greatly from ABA therapy. The problem is that without an official diagnosis insurance will not cover it and it's very expensive otherwise.

 

[Ilov80s]

When you say not making eye contact, do you mean ever? You mentioned he is hyper so is it that he doesn't make eye contact because his focus seems all over the place or because he just doesn't ever make contact even when he seems calm and not distracted?

Seems when we are discussing something with him. He needs nothing in his hands, and I need to tell him to look at me. Once he does, he will face me and roll his eyes to the side. I thrown some yes/no questions at him. Like, Are you going to listen to teachers? "uh hun" Do we ever hit? "Nah hun" So, I think he is listening.

Did you mean to say he need something in his hands? Does he ever approach you and your wife to initiate conversation and make eye contact? Does he like to share personal experiences and express feelings with your family? Are there any repetitive behaviors/rituals/gestures/obsessions?

If he has something in his hands he is not focusing on the conversation. More interested in what he is doing. I want to say he makes good eye contact unless he knows he is in trouble or when we ask for his attention. For example taking a picture. He won't look at the camera. Sometimes something else will catch his attention while doing something like coloring and he'll look up while still trying to color.

Does he show interest in other people? Have you seen him play with boys his age? How does it go?

He went to Day Care with his cousin his age. They say they are best friends and do play together. Sure they get into some shouting matches, but I figure typical stuff. His cousin is also in the pre-K class with him and the teacher says they get along. It's the time where they need to stay on their place on the mat that I think there is a problem. The teach corrects him and he throws the fit. It started off as when the teacher called him on the play ground to running off in the other direction. Now he is acting out saying he doesn't like them. I would really like to observe. He needs to know they are there to help him not to get him into trouble.

Shouting matches are normal. Younger kids with autism often struggle to interact with peers. Other kids often get mad at other kids with autism because, "they aren't playing right". Often it involves hoarding toys or just struggling to blend in with the play. If you watch boys play, they often aren't even playing the same "game". They are often all doing their own thing, but just in close proximity with each other. They will each have their own version of the game happening, but they are able to (usually) share and work together. Boys don't usually socialize and verbally interact with each other like young girls do. It is a good sign if he does well playing with other boys.

It is a complicated situation and there are a lot of things to pay attention to. I would look out for the following as your observations will be very important for the professionals to hear when attempting to help diagnose.

- are there rituals?

- are there repetitive behaviors?

- is the interaction with other boys normal? does he play well with them?

- does he gesture? does he understand the gestures of others? (can be even as simple as pointing)

- Is he a picky eater or have an unusual eating habits?

- is he particular or fussy about the clothes he wears (particularly how it feels)?