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Spencer Ware, possibly the new work horse (2 Viewers)

ponchsox said:
He's not done by any means but Charles does make things iffy 
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Charles has always made things "iffy" in regards to Ware. Nobody is doubting that--so I totally agree with you there.   However--the reaction by some solely in regards to today's game is laughable at best.   I don't know if a healthy Charles could have done much better than Ware did today considering how bad Smith played. Almost 9 yards per touch in a competitive game against a solid defense is pretty dang good.  

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Charles has always made things "iffy" in regards to Ware. Nobody is doubting that--so I totally agree with you there.   However--the reaction by some solely in regards to today's game is laughable at best.   I don't know if a healthy Charles could have done much better than Ware did today considering how bad Smith played. Almost 9 yards per touch in a competitive game against a solid defense is pretty dang good.  
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I think the difference is Charles, even on a day like this, would have caught 5-7 passes and kept a few of those drives going.

 
Shutout said:
I think the difference is Charles, even on a day like this, would have caught 5-7 passes and kept a few of those drives going.
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Ware can't catch 5-7 passes with Smith only targeting him 3 times. He caught 2 of them for 48 and was wide open on a few more where Smith completely didn't see him.   Even Charles would have been capped by how horrible Alex Smith played today.   Heck--look at how bad Gurley looked week 1 with terrible qb play. 

 
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shadyridr said:
Why could Charles could have gotten 5-7 catches today but not Ware?
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You could argue that Charles is a trusted receiver, and Ware is just a couple of games into being considered reliable for it. One great receiving game doesn't make you the first check-down option for a QB. With Charles, the QB is probably looking for him if things don't look right in the secondary. 

Personally, I don't think Charles would have done more than Ware did. But he might not have fumbled, either. Ware didn't embarrass himself with his touches, so I think he's still the main back until Charles proves differently.

 
shadyridr said:
Why could Charles could have gotten 5-7 catches today but not Ware?
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Just my opinion as I've watched a lot of chiefs games with Charles and smith in recent years and it seems that when they play teams that they know can bother them defensively, they make a point to have a heavy dose of check downs and Charles usually has a good handful. 

 
West had a large chunk of his yards on 3rd and long carries when Houston was selling out for the pass.  I expect Charles gets half of Wests snaps while Ware continues to bee the main guy until Charles proves himself and then I expect a full blown 50/50 split between Ware and Charles.  

 
Ware still leads the league in yards from scrimmage (304). He's followed by DWill (303), Diggs (284), David Johnson (275) and Forte (264).

It's more amazing when you realize that he's done it on at least half the snaps/touches that Dwill, Johnson and Forte have.

Nothing about last week changed my mind about how talented I think he is. The situation is murky but I like to bet on talent. 

 
SameSongNDance said:
Ware still leads the league in yards from scrimmage (304). He's followed by DWill (303), Diggs (284), David Johnson (275) and Forte (264).

It's more amazing when you realize that he's done it on at least half the snaps/touches that Dwill, Johnson and Forte have.

Nothing about last week changed my mind about how talented I think he is. The situation is murky but I like to bet on talent. 
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I was just going to say that. He's only getting a dozen touches a game. His output is incredible.

 
SameSongNDance said:
DWill has 303 yards on 68 touches.

Forte has 264 yards on 59 touches.

Johnson has 275 yards on 36 touches

Ware has 304 yards on 30 touches.

Ware is insane.
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Lamar Miller has 214 yards on 59 touches.

Mark Ingram has 134 yards on 27 touches

Ezekiel Elliot has 139 yards on 44 touches 

Spencer Ware has 304 yards on 30 touches

Ware is definitely insane.

 
Yeah.....this is an emerging/rising talent. He cannot be denied and will not be denied. I expect this to continue and for him to be the lead dog all year in KC. At a minimum a great flex play all year (assuming Charles makes it back and get's 40-50% of the work) with upside to top 3 RB in FF for the season. 

 
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I was just thinking about what it would look like if Ware was given Miller's workload. So far this year Miller has been pretty underwhelming.

Ware essentially puts everyone outside of Johnson to shame with his efficiency/effectiveness per touch. I watched all of his touches vs. HOU and he was running/catching on them just as he did SD, he just didn't see the same volume. The guy needs to be fed.

 
Especially excited about his emergence as a route runner.  He could have had another 100 yard game if Smith had 2 eyes.  Wide, wide open down the seam.  He's excelling in all phases of the game.  The fumble was one of those things.  Working hard for extra yards and the hit happened right on the ball.  Just can't see him being iced even if Charles comes back 80-90%, which I don't think he will.

 
It's always fun seeing new owners of player X get immensely frustrated by the Smith/Reid combo. Rinse and repeat. 

 
I'm a bit confused by the status of Charles.  I could have sworn that on Saturday or Sunday--there was some report that Charles was set to return week 3.  I just read two blurbs on rotoworld that Reid is now being non-committal on Charles returning week 3--and that Charles himself told Reid that he wasn't quite ready to play week 2.   What's the consensus on this--is this Reid trying to mask a week 3 Charles return in order to confuse the coaches of their opponents--or is it looking more and more like Ware might be in line for another shot at high volume this upcoming weekend?

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
I'm a bit confused by the status of Charles.  I could have sworn that on Saturday or Sunday--there was some report that Charles was set to return week 3.  I just read two blurbs on rotoworld that Reid is now being non-committal on Charles returning week 3--and that Charles himself told Reid that he wasn't quite ready to play week 2.   What's the consensus on this--is this Reid trying to mask a week 3 Charles return in order to confuse the coaches of their opponents--or is it looking more and more like Ware might be in line for another shot at high volume this upcoming weekend?
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There are obviously major problems with his rehab/healing.  These days, recovery time for an ACL tear is 8-10 months. Charles is now past 11 months and still isn't there.  That certainly doesn't mean he won't fully recovered. He very well might. But considering he's 2 months from the dreaded "30", there is definitely cause for concern.  We've also witnessed a ton of coach'-speak. Seems Charles is always a week away. I'll believe it when I see it. And considering how great Ware is playing, I'm sure the Chiefs don't care if he comes back or not. I'd be shocked if Charles is in the team next year. 

 
I've been saying for a while now that I'm getting the feeling that he's not the same guy anymore (due to injury/bad rehab/age?) and they're trying to diplomatically deal with that.  Reid isn't going to come out and say "he sucks now".

 
JuniorNB said:
There are obviously major problems with his rehab/healing.  These days, recovery time for an ACL tear is 8-10 months. Charles is now past 11 months and still isn't there.  That certainly doesn't mean he won't fully recovered. He very well might. But considering he's 2 months from the dreaded "30", there is definitely cause for concern.  We've also witnessed a ton of coach'-speak. Seems Charles is always a week away. I'll believe it when I see it. And considering how great Ware is playing, I'm sure the Chiefs don't care if he comes back or not. I'd be shocked if Charles is in the team next year. 
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Um, no.

:blackdot:

 
JuniorNB said:
There are obviously major problems with his rehab/healing.  These days, recovery time for an ACL tear is 8-10 months. Charles is now past 11 months and still isn't there.  That certainly doesn't mean he won't fully recovered. He very well might. But considering he's 2 months from the dreaded "30", there is definitely cause for concern.  We've also witnessed a ton of coach'-speak. Seems Charles is always a week away. I'll believe it when I see it. And considering how great Ware is playing, I'm sure the Chiefs don't care if he comes back or not. I'd be shocked if Charles is in the team next year. 
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Want to make a bet on that?

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
They could certaiy cut him for cap purposes. Not sure of exact number and savings but its a business
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His contract looks pretty friendly to me.

2016: $2.75 million (+ $2 million reporting bonus + $1 million in per-game roster bonuses), 2017: $3.75 million (+ $2 million reporting bonus + $1 million in per-game roster bonuses), 2018: Free Agent

 
JohnnyU said:
His contract looks pretty friendly to me.

2016: $2.75 million (+ $2 million reporting bonus + $1 million in per-game roster bonuses), 2017: $3.75 million (+ $2 million reporting bonus + $1 million in per-game roster bonuses), 2018: Free Agent
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For a potential RB who may not be your feature back anymore? No not friendly. That would be an overpaid back up RB who is 30 years old going on 31 next season. If Charles makes a full recovery and plays at 85% of his previous level....I can maybe see them keeping him. But I doubt it. They are going to move on from Charles after this season IMO.

 
TripItUp said:
Um, no.

:blackdot:
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I think they're looking at it the same way the Cowboys are looking at Romo. If Prescott continues to improve, they aren't going to want to go back to Romo when he gets healthy. What is the point?  If they know Prescott is their future and he's performing well already, putting Romo back in for 6 games this season and MAYBE one more is just stalling the future.  If Ware wasn't producing at such a ridiculously efficient clip, then of course they'd want Charles back. But Ware is playing awesomely. And he's obviously in their future plans. Reid would never say it, but if Charles would have a setback at practice and miss the season, Reid wouldn't miss an hour of sleep. It would just make coaching easier for him. Less headaches and loyalty obligations.

Don't get me wrong. They'd love to have 26 year-old Charles back. Without two knee surgeries. But I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks that player is ever returning.

 
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JuniorNB said:
I think they're looking at it the same way the Cowboys are looking at Romo. If Prescott continues to improve, they aren't going to want to go back to Romo when he gets healthy. What is the point?  If they know Prescott is their future and he's performing well already, putting Romo back in for 6 games this season and MAYBE one more is just stalling the future.  If Ware wasn't producing at such a ridiculously efficient clip, then of course they'd want Charles back. But Ware is playing awesomely. And he's obviously in their future plans. Reid would never say it, but if Charles would have a setback at practice and miss the season, Reid wouldn't miss an hour of sleep. It would just make coaching easier for him. Less headaches and loyalty obligations.

Don't get me wrong. They'd love to have 26 year-old Charles back. Without two knee surgeries. But I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks that player is ever returning.
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What if Charles returns to form or at least close to it (not a given but not exactly hard to imagine either), then wouldn't Andy Reid love to have both?

I own Ware in two leagues and Charles in zero, but let's not act like Charles has automatically turned into garbage.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
What if Charles returns to form or at least close to it (not a given but not exactly hard to imagine either), then wouldn't Andy Reid love to have both?

I own Ware in two leagues and Charles in zero, but let's not act like Charles has automatically turned into garbage.
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Ware is only getting 12 touches now. If Charles comes back and is still a threat, I could see him and Ware both getting around ten touches. West would be the odd man out.

 
JuniorNB said:
There are obviously major problems with his rehab/healing.  These days, recovery time for an ACL tear is 8-10 months. Charles is now past 11 months and still isn't there.  That certainly doesn't mean he won't fully recovered. He very well might. But considering he's 2 months from the dreaded "30", there is definitely cause for concern.  We've also witnessed a ton of coach'-speak. Seems Charles is always a week away. I'll believe it when I see it. And considering how great Ware is playing, I'm sure the Chiefs don't care if he comes back or not. I'd be shocked if Charles is in the team next year. 
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I appreciate your point of view in regards to his actual recovery.   I do think the Chiefs care that he comes back.  Even if he comes back to 75% of what he once was--that's still a very dynamic player on the field for them (as well as for fantasy owners)--so I do disagree with you there.  

My concern/question is that if what Reid said was true--that the reason that Charles didn't play last week is because he himself told Reid that he wasn't ready--how do we interpret this?  This could mean that the Chiefs feel that he's ready--but that he himself is not fully confident.   The other potential factor could be the elephant in the room.  I think it's safe to say that Jamaal is probably one more major injury away from being a fairly undesirable asset in 2018 when he becomes a free agent.   If the decision is truly in his hands--does Jamaal have any incentive to come back any earlier than he absolutely needs to this year?   Does self preservation come into play at all here?

 
Go read the actual article that tweet teased: http://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/18432/undefined

All it says is Andy Reid thinks he'll make a full recovery.  It doesn't say a word about what his workload will be when he returns.  I've said before, Ware's getting 50% of the snaps right now and ~15-20 touches per game.  West is getting 50% of the snaps and 10-12 touches per game so far.  Why can't Charles simply take West's role, do it more effectively, and make them a more dangerous team?  Charles isn't coming back from his second ACL surgery to run inside with the violence and effectiveness that Ware does.  So why mess with the roles when they're so clearly laid out, and both can be extremely effective in them?

 
Dr. Octopus said:
What if Charles returns to form or at least close to it (not a given but not exactly hard to imagine either), then wouldn't Andy Reid love to have both?

I own Ware in two leagues and Charles in zero, but let's not act like Charles has automatically turned into garbage.
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I would assume if Charles is very close to what he was pre-injury of course. He is a great talent and he is being paid to be a starter. At the very least it will be a full on RBBC if Charles indeed can come all the way back.

But all the smoke signals are telling me......don't count on that.

 
I'm sure I missed it but why was Ware rushing less in the second half? He had a decent average and seemed to be effective? The Fumble?

 
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