St Louis Cardinals under FBI Investigation for Hacking (1 Viewer)

[Dickie Dunn]

Dumb question here,

What type of info is in a baseball database that is so critical to winning? Scouting reports?

Sure, scouting reports are huge. Then there are trade and free agent discussions, which are critical for figuring out what the market might be for certain players.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Belichick is pissed he didn't think of it first.

Belichick is chuckling because he hasn't been caught...

 

[mquinnjr]

Yeah... if the FBI proves this I'd think they'll have the full book thrown at them. Banned from post-season, fined, picks -- that kind of stuff.

If true this is very serious. I am not sure that you can ban them from the post season though. That would be unprecedented in American major league sports wouldn't it?

I'm wondering what kind of penalty there could be that would be even close to what Goodell gave the Patriots.

Docking draft picks isn't necessarily a penalty, because there is no guarantee even a No. 1 pick ever would play for the MLB team. Besides, just go scout more in the Caribbean or Japan.

A huge fine, maybe. But what kind of effect will that really have?

Genuinely curious.

It would have to center around money, I'd have to think. A post-season ban would be unprecedented and that would be genuinely shocking/unlikely. Probably a ban of all those directly involved, and possibly a loss of their revenue share with other MLB clubs sounds probably within the ballpark.

 

[whoknew]

Dumb question here,

What type of info is in a baseball database that is so critical to winning? Scouting reports?

The Astros are (allegedly) on the cutting edge of MLB data analysis. So while they are scouting reports, its possible it was not just the report, but how they came up with that report. They may have wanted to about the Astros proprietary models to come up with the reports/player analysis - and what Luhnow has changed since going to Houston.

 

[RUSF18]

Dumb question here,

What type of info is in a baseball database that is so critical to winning? Scouting reports?

Sure, scouting reports are huge. Then there are trade and free agent discussions, which are critical for figuring out what the market might be for certain players.

Believe the article also mentioned proprietary statistical analysis on players.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Yeah... if the FBI proves this I'd think they'll have the full book thrown at them. Banned from post-season, fined, picks -- that kind of stuff.

If true this is very serious. I am not sure that you can ban them from the post season though. That would be unprecedented in American major league sports wouldn't it?

Commish can pretty much do anything he wants as long as it's not directed as a player. IIRC baseball's Commish has even more power than the other two (though not sure why I think that now).

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Dumb question here,

What type of info is in a baseball database that is so critical to winning? Scouting reports?

A little over a year ago, a bunch of info from this Astros database got leaked to the net, apparently triggering this investigation. There were scouting reports, proprietary player evaluation tools, messages between Astros employees about trade talks with other teams. There was a lot to learn about how the organization thought about the game and their players, what players they were targeting in trades and future drafts, and from the trade talks there was info about how other orgs felt about their players and perceived value.

 

[TripItUp]

Dumb question here,

What type of info is in a baseball database that is so critical to winning? Scouting reports?

The Astros are (allegedly) on the cutting edge of MLB data analysis. So while they are scouting reports, its possible it was not just the report, but how they came up with that report. They may have wanted to about the Astros proprietary models to come up with the reports/player analysis - and what Luhnow has changed since going to Houston.

Gotcha, that makes a ton of sense....the modeling stuff in baseball fascinates me.

 

[whoknew]

I may be totally naive here, but I find it hard to believe that the top of the front office and ownership knew about this. Again - I could be wrong - but it just seems like this would totally ruin them in MLB circles. What other team would ever trust them/do business/trades with them again? Its a very small industry.

Again - I'm probably totally naive. It just seems very strange.

 

[RUSF18]

I may be totally naive here, but I find it hard to believe that the top of the front office and ownership knew about this. Again - I could be wrong - but it just seems like this would totally ruin them in MLB circles. What other team would ever trust them/do business/trades with them again? Its a very small industry.

Again - I'm probably totally naive. It just seems very strange.

I'd be surprised if it went to ownership but you would think at the least, the top execs would ensure there's some plausible deniability here. What makes me think you could be right...that the lower level guys were doing something to make themselves appear more valuable to the organization in the eyes of the top execs without their knowledge...is the extremely high level of turnover that these organizations experience. If some high level guy was issuing directives to the data guys to do something like this, the whole thing blows up once those guys get a job offer from another team.

There doesn't seem to be the same risk with an assistant equipment manager in the NFL, at least.

 

[Donkey Derp]

I guess I shouldn't criticize the writing of Silicon Valley anymore

 

[B Maverick]

as a Dodger fan I am hoping for a postseason ban for STL for the next few years. LA may advance if they dont have to play the Cards....

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I may be totally naive here, but I find it hard to believe that the top of the front office and ownership knew about this. Again - I could be wrong - but it just seems like this would totally ruin them in MLB circles. What other team would ever trust them/do business/trades with them again? Its a very small industry.

Again - I'm probably totally naive. It just seems very strange.

Preliminary reports suggest it was Fredbird.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I may be totally naive here, but I find it hard to believe that the top of the front office and ownership knew about this. Again - I could be wrong - but it just seems like this would totally ruin them in MLB circles. What other team would ever trust them/do business/trades with them again? Its a very small industry.

Again - I'm probably totally naive. It just seems very strange.

Preliminary reports suggest it was Fredbird.

HFS, look at the post I just made on the Facebooks before coming here

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I also knew my life was way too good lately. :(

 

[Zow]

If you're gonna hack a teams brain trust, why the Astros?

have you not been paying attention lately?

 

[Zow]

Dumb question here,

What type of info is in a baseball database that is so critical to winning? Scouting reports?

The Astros are (allegedly) on the cutting edge of MLB data analysis. So while they are scouting reports, its possible it was not just the report, but how they came up with that report. They may have wanted to about the Astros proprietary models to come up with the reports/player analysis - and what Luhnow has changed since going to Houston.

I'd think accessing this info would be hugely valuable both for learning how the Astros were analyzing players and for determining which players in their organization may be attainable for less value than what the Cardinals believed that player was worth.

 

[Annyong]

heard the Astros front office guy is a former cardinal employee who had his database off-site, but never changed his password from his Cardinal days. If that is true, probably should fine the Astros, and make them forfeit 25 draft picks.

1-2-3-4-5? That's amazing! I have the same combination on my luggage!

Oh yeah, its right here, Samsonite, I was way off.

 

[MattFancy]

heard the Astros front office guy is a former cardinal employee who had his database off-site, but never changed his password from his Cardinal days. If that is true, probably should fine the Astros, and make them forfeit 25 draft picks.

1-2-3-4-5? That's amazing! I have the same combination on my luggage!

Oh yeah, its right here, Samsonite, I was way off.

Knew it started with an S though

 

[Wrigley]

shadyridr, on 16 Jun 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

"We gave the guy the nickname The Hacker because he always fouled us during our pickup basketball games"

 

[MattFancy]

What The Cardinals Learned From Hacking The Astros

You may be wondering exactly what information the St. Louis Cardinals got their hands on when they hacked into the Houston Astros’ proprietary database. Well, thanks to whoever publicly leaked the hacked documents last summer, we can provide at least a partial answer to that question.

Last June, we posted a treasure trove of internal trade chatter that was stolen from the Astros’ “Ground Control” database and posted to Anonbin. At the time, nobody knew who was responsible for the data breach, but now we know that it might have been vengeful Cardinals executives. This may not be all the data they got from the hack, but if you want an idea of some of what the Cardinals stole, here you go.

 

[Mario Kart]

Cubs fans are happy. If the penalty is huge or has to do with players then the Cubs have a chance of winning the division.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Can we move this to the baseball forum now?

 

[St. Louis Bob]

What The Cardinals Learned From Hacking The Astros

You may be wondering exactly what information the St. Louis Cardinals got their hands on when they hacked into the Houston Astros’ proprietary database. Well, thanks to whoever publicly leaked the hacked documents last summer, we can provide at least a partial answer to that question.

Last June, we posted a treasure trove of internal trade chatter that was stolen from the Astros’ “Ground Control” database and posted to Anonbin. At the time, nobody knew who was responsible for the data breach, but now we know that it might have been vengeful Cardinals executives. This may not be all the data they got from the hack, but if you want an idea of some of what the Cardinals stole, here you go.

This is good news to me. If this was the way the Cardinals operated, they certainly wouldn't upload stolen information for all to see. Looks more like a rogue employee to me with an axe to grind. I hope that's what it is.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Cubs fans are happy. If the penalty is huge or has to do with players then the Cubs have a chance of winning the division.

Don't be ridiculous.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Any truth to the rumor that Goodell just suspended Tom Brady 6 games for this?

 

[TheIronSheik]

I could be wrong, but I thought they said that they used a password that he used when he was with the Cards. To get that, they had to go into their own system and see what his old password was. I would think that's a huge no-no.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

I could be wrong, but I thought they said that they used a password that he used when he was with the Cards. To get that, they had to go into their own system and see what his old password was. I would think that's a huge no-no.

mattadamsloincloth1

 

[Wrigley]

Cubs fans are happy. If the penalty is huge or has to do with players then the Cubs have a chance of winning the division.

Don't be ridiculous.

I'd want to win the division fair, just like the cheating cardinals

 

[James Daulton]

Doesn't the FBI have more important things to do?

 

[Angry Beavers]

if you aren't cheating you are trying; If it comes out he did not change his password after he left he kind of gets what he deserves for being an idiot.

 

[whoknew]

if you aren't cheating you are trying; If it comes out he did not change his password after he left he kind of gets what he deserves for being an idiot.

Aaaah, good 'ole blame the victim.

"If she didn't want to be raped, she shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt."

 

[Sammy3469]

The Astros have a position called "Director of Decision Sciences" who is an ex-NASA engineer. Fittingly he helps run the Nerd Cave.

 

[TheIronSheik]

if you aren't cheating you are trying; If it comes out he did not change his password after he left he kind of gets what he deserves for being an idiot.

Blows my mind that people actually think like this.

Which part? The part where he said "if you aren't cheating you are trying"? Because honestly, I'm not sure what that means anyway.

 

[Abraham]

I imagine if the Fbi is involved then there is a belief that a crime has been committed. That means someone could be facing federal felony charges, which is kind of a big deal. That said, a trial would likely mean evidence would have to be released and if there is anything worse than one team knowing your proprietary secrets it would be all the teams knowing your proprietary secrets.

I think MLB's only recourse would be to take draft picks from the cards and give them to Houston for a LONG time. Like five first and second rounders. Fines can't be high enough to have an impact and the players association will go nuts if the cardinals miss out on revenue sharing (since it could lower the cardinals free agency spend).

 

[TheIronSheik]

if you aren't cheating you are trying; If it comes out he did not change his password after he left he kind of gets what he deserves for being an idiot.

Blows my mind that people actually think like this.

Which part? The part where he said "if you aren't cheating you are trying"? Because honestly, I'm not sure what that means anyway.

Well to start, it implies that not only is cheating normal, not cheating makes you a slacker. Nothing wrong with that?

Wouldn't that be "If you're not cheating, you're NOT trying"?

 

[Sinn Fein]

I imagine if the Fbi is involved then there is a belief that a crime has been committed. That means someone could be facing federal felony charges, which is kind of a big deal. That said, a trial would likely mean evidence would have to be released and if there is anything worse than one team knowing your proprietary secrets it would be all the teams knowing your proprietary secrets.

I think MLB's only recourse would be to take draft picks from the cards and give them to Houston for a LONG time. Like five first and second rounders. Fines can't be high enough to have an impact and the players association will go nuts if the cardinals miss out on revenue sharing (since it could lower the cardinals free agency spend).

I think a lot really still depends on the facts - a rogue employee for Cardinals who did this on his own, with no knowledge from his managers - then I think its a bit harsh to penalize the club.

Now, if anyone at the club in a management position knew about this - then yeah, I think MLB can really hammer them.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I imagine if the Fbi is involved then there is a belief that a crime has been committed. That means someone could be facing federal felony charges, which is kind of a big deal. That said, a trial would likely mean evidence would have to be released and if there is anything worse than one team knowing your proprietary secrets it would be all the teams knowing your proprietary secrets.

I think MLB's only recourse would be to take draft picks from the cards and give them to Houston for a LONG time. Like five first and second rounders. Fines can't be high enough to have an impact and the players association will go nuts if the cardinals miss out on revenue sharing (since it could lower the cardinals free agency spend).

I think a lot really still depends on the facts - a rogue employee for Cardinals who did this on his own, with no knowledge from his managers - then I think its a bit harsh to penalize the club.

Now, if anyone at the club in a management position knew about this - then yeah, I think MLB can really hammer them.

To be the min wage intern who gets paid off to take the blame on this one.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Weird thing is they say that both the Cards and MLB have been subpoenaed and are cooperating fully. My question is, why is MLB part of this investigation?

 

[sbonomo]

If this is true, i wonder if there will be a criminal case as well. IP theft is enough to get you some time in the pokie for sure.

 

[Abraham]

If this is true, i wonder if there will be a criminal case as well. IP theft is enough to get you some time in the pokie for sure.

I don't think the fbi gets involved in civil matters

 

[TheIronSheik]

If this is true, i wonder if there will be a criminal case as well. IP theft is enough to get you some time in the pokie for sure.

I don't think the fbi gets involved in civil matters

Not civil. I think corporate espionage is something they look into.

 

[Abraham]

Fair point. I suspect it's in the best interest of the cardinals and MLB for this to be a rogue employee, thus the chance of a criminal case might be higher

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Yeah... if the FBI proves this I'd think they'll have the full book thrown at them. Banned from post-season, fined, picks -- that kind of stuff.

If the FBI proves this, somebody is going to Federal pound-you-in-the-### prison.

 

[jon_mx]

Yeah... if the FBI proves this I'd think they'll have the full book thrown at them. Banned from post-season, fined, picks -- that kind of stuff.

If the FBI proves this, somebody is going to Federal pound-you-in-the-### prison.

Probably will be an individual hung to dry.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Dumb question here,

What type of info is in a baseball database that is so critical to winning? Scouting reports?

The Astros are (allegedly) on the cutting edge of MLB data analysis. So while they are scouting reports, its possible it was not just the report, but how they came up with that report. They may have wanted to about the Astros proprietary models to come up with the reports/player analysis - and what Luhnow has changed since going to Houston.

Deadspin article said that the system was originally designed in STL and the designers took it to Houston with them... And forgot to change the damn passwords.

 

[The Kerminator]

Is this really a surprise to anyone? The Cardinals franchise has a history of cheating and the front office looking the other way. See Mark McGwire. Even the Patriot's organization is jealous.

 

[Mile High]

The list of teams looking the other way towards steroids is about 30 teams long.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Is this really a surprise to anyone? The Cardinals franchise has a history of cheating and the front office looking the other way. See Mark McGwire. Even the Patriot's organization is jealous.

A little steam coming off the top of this take.

 

[Tom Hagen]

Doesn't the FBI have more important things to do?

The NY Times report indicated the Astros asked the FBI to investigate when the leak happened thinking it was a hacker. The investigation led to the home of a Cardinals employee. That's exactly what the FBi should be doing. IP theft is a serious issue.