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Stallworth + Welker Must Starts vs. Dallas (1 Viewer)

tombonneau

tombonneau

Footballguy
According to article in Boston Herald today, Waddle Phillips plans to triple cover Moss. That should leave Welker, Stallworth & Watson (already a must start) open all day.

If you've got them, start Welker & Stallworth with confidence this week. :popcorn:

 
tombonneau said:
According to article in Boston Herald today, Waddle Phillips plans to triple cover Moss. That should leave Welker, Stallworth & Watson (already a must start) open all day.If you've got them, start Welker & Stallworth with confidence this week. :popcorn:
Click to expand...
What if you have both?
 
FOXBORO - Wade Phillips has thrown down the challenge. He’s watched what Cleveland coach Romeo Crennel did to neutralize Randy Moss, and since it’s a copycat league, he’s about to mimic the Browns’ plan.

“We’re going to put three on Moss and try to keep him down all we can,” Phillips said during a conference call Wednesday. “It’s hard to do with great receivers, and they have a lot of other people, but we’re going to try to keep as many as we can on Moss and try and hold on with the rest of them.”
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http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/footbal...ticleid=1037599
 
That is my take as well. With DAL secondary banged up if they concentrate on Moss that only leaves the door open for Welker, Stallworth & Watson. IMO

 
triple cover moss? what does he think, brady can't find an open receiver? he'll still probably find moss for a td at some point anyway.

 
OK, so that would a corner, a safety, and what, another safety? And didn't the Browns get their asses kicked doing that? I seem to remember Watson having a huge day. Wade would be really stupid to do that if you ask me.

 
Joe T said:
tombonneau said:
According to article in Boston Herald today, Waddle Phillips plans to triple cover Moss. That should leave Welker, Stallworth & Watson (already a must start) open all day.If you've got them, start Welker & Stallworth with confidence this week. :popcorn:
Click to expand...
What if you have both?
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I'd start Donte. It looks like Stallworth will be the #2 in NE. When healthy, he is always a threat to rip off a huge play. I'm thinking 80 yards and a score this week.
 
I'm sure Wade would reveal his actual gameplan to the New England media during a conference call...

 
Letum said:
I'm sure Wade would reveal his actual gameplan to the New England media during a conference call...
Click to expand...
:thumbup: I still think that Moss/Welker/Stallworth/Watson will be too much for the Cowboys. NE will probably run 3-Wide sets and a no huddle style offense, with Henry out, anyone one of these receivers are going to be gold, gold I tell you. :thumbup:
 
Letum said:
I'm sure Wade would reveal his actual gameplan to the New England media during a conference call...
Click to expand...
He's already unwisely given the Pats plenty of bulletin board material in press conferences this week, so I wouldn't put it past him.
 
sholditch said:
OK, so that would a corner, a safety, and what, another safety? And didn't the Browns get their asses kicked doing that? I seem to remember Watson having a huge day. Wade would be really stupid to do that if you ask me.
Click to expand...
field goal punt punt field goal punt punt punt touchdown punt turned over on downs This is the results of the Patriots first 10 possessions against the Browns. Not exactly an ### kicking if you ask me. The Browns shot themselves in the foot against the Pats with untimely turnovers. Dallas offense is slightly better then the Browns (sarcasm) so in my eyes Patriots better get their offense in gear or THEY will be behind on the scoreboard.
 
Why triple cover him when you have that super stud Roy Williams at safety who can take him in single coverage? :shrug:

 
guys, calm down with the manlove on new england

phillips KNOWS he can't keep NE from scoring alot

you pick a number like 27 points and see what you can do to keep them there and hope you can score 28

this isn't about "shutting NE down" it is about giving his offense a chance

if he triples moss like CLE and gives up ONE LESS TOUCHDOWN, he has a chance

if you cover everyone even, and get 41 dropped on you you are beat

 
Here is a better and more realistic plan.

================================================================================

========

How to stop the Patriots

Dallas' staff experienced against New England attack

Posted: Thursday October 11, 2007 1:37PM; Updated: Friday October 12, 2007 9:56AM

A lot has been made of the Patriots offense entering Sunday's 5-0 showdown with the Cowboys in Texas Stadium, and deservedly so. Tom Brady ranks No. 1 in completion percentage, passer rating and touchdowns; Randy Moss leads the league in yards receiving and is tied for first with seven scores; Ben Watson shares the lead for most touchdown catches by a tight end with five; and the running game is averaging 4.5 yards a carry, tying for ninth-best overall.

But here are two reasons the Patriots don't figure to reach 34 points for a sixth consecutive game -- and why it would come as little surprise if the Cowboys prevail against their favored opponent: Wade Phillips and Brian Stewart.

Phillips is the head coach of the Cowboys, Stewart the defensive coordinator. Each has tremendous respect for the New England offense, but neither is cowering at the thought of facing it. The primary reason, after their abilities as coaches, is that they're familiar with the Patriots and have had positive results against talented quarterbacks and high-scoring offenses in recent years.

Phillips and Stewart worked together the previous three seasons in San Diego, where Phillips was the defensive coordinator and Stewart was the secondary coach. During that time they played New England and Indianapolis twice each, including one playoff game against the Patriots. The Chargers split against each of them, but more important, the defeats were by a mere field goal each. And the only time the Phillips-led defense allowed more than 24 points in those games was 2004, when the Colts' No. 1-ranked scoring offense, behind the passing of Peyton Manning, who would break Dan Marino's single-season record with 49 touchdown passes, put up 27. (Indy scored 34 total, but seven were on a kickoff return.)

The Patriots scored 24 on the Chargers last year in the playoffs, and it marked the only time in three postseason games they failed to put up at least 34. They also finished with postseason lows for third-down conversions (23.5 percent), average yards per play (4.4), per rush (2.4) and per pass (5.2). New England did not have newcomers Moss, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth and Sammy Morris at that time, but Stewart believes it's just as important to understand the mindset of an offense as it is to know the personnel, particularly if the players' ability levels are similar.

"Having faced them will help tremendously, tremendously," said Stewart, who is in his first season as a play-caller. " I'll tell you why. You really don't understand how well-prepared they are and how they play until you've played them. You really don't. You think you know, because you go through practice and everything. And then all of a sudden you're in the game against them for the first time and you're just like, 'Wow.' They're so well-prepared ... Well, at San Diego we were beyond that because we got a chance to play them or the Colts and Peyton Manning continuously every year I was there.

"When you're talking about Brady and Manning, that's two of the best quarterbacks. So that's a chance to go against the most cerebral quarterbacks, as far as their preparation. Those were good learning opportunities, and I think that helped. Obviously Wade's been in the league a long time, but it helped me tremendously to see that, to see the preparation, and then to try to understand how they're attacking us.

"And they're attacking you by your percentages," added Stewart. "Meaning, when they're in a certain formation -- say they've got two tight ends in the game, but they've got one of them [split] so it looks like a receiver in slot on one side and a tight end in slot on the other side, so two-by-two. All they do is get in that formation and look at every single tape you have and what you do against that formation, then they play the percentages to beat what you like to do against that formation.

"That's what they do the best job of," Stewart continued. "What that does is, it wears on your defense because the defensive players line up and then [the Patriots] say, 'OK, it's a zone blitz coming this way.' Our players come back to the sideline and say, 'They know what it is.' We have to tell them not to get shook up because they know what we're doing. Bottom line, offenses can draw up something to block anything. But it's the speed and the intensity of the blitz that determines whether that blocking scheme is going to work. That's what we had in San Diego. They blocked stuff up, but it was the speed and the intensity of our guys on the blitz that disrupted it."

Stewart and Phillips have similar defenders in Dallas, where the defense has allowed only one touchdown in its last three games -- not that anyone is doing cartwheels considering the opponents were Buffalo, St. Louis and Chicago, which respectively rank 28th, 25th and 19th in scoring. Even Stewart admits there still is room for improvement because the players are learning a new scheme with new responsibilities.

"I think they're doing a good job grasping it, but there's still a learning curve," he said. "A lot of times they go back to, 'I'm supposed to stay in this gap.' Well, wait a minute; the ball's going right and your gap is the other way. You better run to the ball. We're a 'see ball, get ball' defense, and some of them don't know when to abandon their responsibilities and go to the ball. I can understand that. But the way our defense is set up, there's always somebody for the reverse, so if it's not you, go to the football.

"There's always somebody for the running back, so if it's not you, go to the quarterback. We're not, 'OK, you're supposed to be inside the center, stay there, don't move.' That's how they played it before, strictly. They got [chewed out] if they didn't. You're looking at four years of doing it one way and three or four months, including the training camp and OTAs, of doing it another way. When they get worried, they revert back. We've just got to get them to know that, hey, we play football around here. We run to the ball."

The Cowboys will have to be on their game against the Patriots, who have been frighteningly consistent on offense. Consider some of the numbers: multiple touchdowns by Moss in three of the last four games; a 100-yard receiver each week; three games without allowing a sack, and only three sacks allowed all year; five consecutive games with at least three touchdown passes and 16 overall by Brady, who is completing 74.1 percent of his passes.

"That's ridiculous," Stewart said of the completion percentage. "You can look at it and say, 'Let's try to get the guy off his spot. Let's try to do this.' And you know what? That ain't going to work. He knows where everybody is as far as his players, and then what they do probably the best job of anybody in the NFL is they get in formations and they know your choices of defenses -- your options.

"They essentially say that, in this formation the defense is either going to play man or straight zone, and I'm going to see it right away I've got them spread out. If you pressure, I'm going to see it because it's a spread formation. They do a good job with that. They just study what you do and your tendencies. So he knows and he can anticipate.

"Plus, they know the weak players. They attack the defense, the weakest player of that defense, and [brady] knows where that is. If you take away something that he expects to be there, he knows what else is going on somewhere else. In that case you don't get a lot of sacks and you get a lot of completions, and that's exactly how they've been running it.

"How do you stop it? I think you have to really, really choose -- I think [Cleveland coach] Romeo Crennel said it best -- I think you've got to really pick your poison. You've got to pick one or two things that you want to eliminate and preach to your guys that we're going to eliminate these two things and we're going to survive and rally to those other things. With that, we're going to stop them from running -- traditionally that's what we do when we play against them, we attack the run; and we're probably going to have to do something with Moss. The two things we're going to be committed to is the run and not letting Moss be a vertical threat."

The Browns limited Moss to three catches for 46 yards last week and still lost by 17. No doubt, this is the deepest and most talented Patriots offense that Phillips and Stewart have seen. But if there are two men with the know-how to slow it, they're the ones.

 
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simmonjm said:
sholditch said:
OK, so that would a corner, a safety, and what, another safety? And didn't the Browns get their asses kicked doing that? I seem to remember Watson having a huge day. Wade would be really stupid to do that if you ask me.
Click to expand...
field goal punt punt field goal punt punt punt touchdown punt turned over on downs This is the results of the Patriots first 10 possessions against the Browns. Not exactly an ### kicking if you ask me. The Browns shot themselves in the foot against the Pats with untimely turnovers. Dallas offense is slightly better then the Browns (sarcasm) so in my eyes Patriots better get their offense in gear or THEY will be behind on the scoreboard.
Click to expand...
Pretty much what I would say. The Pats offense scored 27pts against the Browns defense, which I think is their lowest output of the year. That bonehead INT by Anderson at NE's goaline and the defensive TD at the end by NE is a pretty big 14pt swing (or at least 10) in the final score.And Brady had his worst game of the year when Moss was held in check.
 
Agree to hold Moss in check, and make Welker/Stallworth beat you...

...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand yet ANOTHER week the fantasy services put Ben Watson way down the list. Don't get me wrong, they have great things to say about him....

Siggy Bloom is the only rater to have Watson in the Top 5... depsite this game looking like a scoring fest. One service has him at #12.

 
simmonjm said:
sholditch said:
OK, so that would a corner, a safety, and what, another safety? And didn't the Browns get their asses kicked doing that? I seem to remember Watson having a huge day. Wade would be really stupid to do that if you ask me.
Click to expand...
field goal punt

punt

field goal

punt

punt

punt

touchdown

punt

turned over on downs

This is the results of the Patriots first 10 possessions against the Browns. Not exactly an ### kicking if you ask me. The Browns shot themselves in the foot against the Pats with untimely turnovers. Dallas offense is slightly better then the Browns (sarcasm) so in my eyes Patriots better get their offense in gear or THEY will be behind on the scoreboard.
Click to expand...
Wow, you really wrote that, and you were serious. Wow. :unsure:
 
tombonneau said:
According to article in Boston Herald today, Waddle Phillips plans to triple cover Moss. That should leave Welker, Stallworth & Watson (already a must start) open all day.

If you've got them, start Welker & Stallworth with confidence this week. :unsure:
Click to expand...
Does it officially count as triple coverage if Roy Williams is one of those guys since he cant really cover anyone? Because if this is true, that's basically what Phillips is saying. that Roy Williams cant cover anyone, so I better give him some help over the top.
 
shakeybarn said:
Agree to hold Moss in check, and make Welker/Stallworth beat you......aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand yet ANOTHER week the fantasy services put Ben Watson way down the list. Don't get me wrong, they have great things to say about him.... Siggy Bloom is the only rater to have Watson in the Top 5... depsite this game looking like a scoring fest. One service has him at #12.
Click to expand...
Almost considering starting Watson over Gates this week. Do I dare?
 
simmonjm said:
sholditch said:
OK, so that would a corner, a safety, and what, another safety? And didn't the Browns get their asses kicked doing that? I seem to remember Watson having a huge day. Wade would be really stupid to do that if you ask me.
Click to expand...
field goal punt

punt

field goal

punt

punt

punt

touchdown

punt

turned over on downs

This is the results of the Patriots first 10 possessions against the Browns. Not exactly an ### kicking if you ask me. The Browns shot themselves in the foot against the Pats with untimely turnovers. Dallas offense is slightly better then the Browns (sarcasm) so in my eyes Patriots better get their offense in gear or THEY will be behind on the scoreboard.
Click to expand...
Somebody just dropped a thread about NE not giving away too much of their grand D schemes and playing relatively vanilla D against Dallas. I think he got it wrong. I think they played relatively vanilla O against Cleveland the week before the Dallas game, against a team they could pretty much beat with their eyes closed. which they did.
 
gruecd said:
shakeybarn said:
Agree to hold Moss in check, and make Welker/Stallworth beat you......aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand yet ANOTHER week the fantasy services put Ben Watson way down the list. Don't get me wrong, they have great things to say about him.... Siggy Bloom is the only rater to have Watson in the Top 5... depsite this game looking like a scoring fest. One service has him at #12.
Click to expand...
Almost considering starting Watson over Gates this week. Do I dare?
Click to expand...
Wrong forum dude.
 
twitch said:
simmonjm said:
sholditch said:
OK, so that would a corner, a safety, and what, another safety? And didn't the Browns get their asses kicked doing that? I seem to remember Watson having a huge day. Wade would be really stupid to do that if you ask me.
Click to expand...
field goal punt

punt

field goal

punt

punt

punt

touchdown

punt

turned over on downs

This is the results of the Patriots first 10 possessions against the Browns. Not exactly an ### kicking if you ask me. The Browns shot themselves in the foot against the Pats with untimely turnovers. Dallas offense is slightly better then the Browns (sarcasm) so in my eyes Patriots better get their offense in gear or THEY will be behind on the scoreboard.
Click to expand...
Somebody just dropped a thread about NE not giving away too much of their grand D schemes and playing relatively vanilla D against Dallas. I think he got it wrong. I think they played relatively vanilla O against Cleveland the week before the Dallas game, against a team they could pretty much beat with their eyes closed. which they did.
Click to expand...
I don't think they played vanilla O, they were just a bit off. They ran a TE reverse and I think another end around to Stallworth, can't remember. But they weren't too vanilla.The team kind of just slept walked.

 
IMHO it is not how the Dallas D plays the NE O but how the Dallas O handles the NE D. Lets assume in a normal game that NE has 12-14 possessions. They normally score on 6-8 of those possessions. In my opinion the only chance Dallas has is to control the ball for 35-40 minutes of the game. If they can they can limit the chances NE has to put points on the board.

Run Julies and MBIII all day and get first downs with short passes and get as many points as you can in doing so.

Play the NE offense in a cover two and let Watson have his catches over the middle.

I am not sure that Dallas can control the ball that much but if they can they have a shot. Say 31-28.

 
coachjim said:
IMHO it is not how the Dallas D plays the NE O but how the Dallas O handles the NE D. Lets assume in a normal game that NE has 12-14 possessions. They normally score on 6-8 of those possessions. In my opinion the only chance Dallas has is to control the ball for 35-40 minutes of the game. If they can they can limit the chances NE has to put points on the board.Run Julies and MBIII all day and get first downs with short passes and get as many points as you can in doing so.Play the NE offense in a cover two and let Watson have his catches over the middle.I am not sure that Dallas can control the ball that much but if they can they have a shot. Say 31-28.
Click to expand...
I think the Patriots will be able to generate more pass rush on Dallas than vice versa, and that's the key to the game. Romo definitely needs to throw to the check down receiver more often; last week he looked like he wasn't even going through progressions; I expect this is being hammered into him this week, and you will see TO with a large number of short receptions.
 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
coachjim said:
IMHO it is not how the Dallas D plays the NE O but how the Dallas O handles the NE D. Lets assume in a normal game that NE has 12-14 possessions. They normally score on 6-8 of those possessions. In my opinion the only chance Dallas has is to control the ball for 35-40 minutes of the game. If they can they can limit the chances NE has to put points on the board.Run Julies and MBIII all day and get first downs with short passes and get as many points as you can in doing so.Play the NE offense in a cover two and let Watson have his catches over the middle.I am not sure that Dallas can control the ball that much but if they can they have a shot. Say 31-28.
Click to expand...
I think the Patriots will be able to generate more pass rush on Dallas than vice versa, and that's the key to the game. Romo definitely needs to throw to the check down receiver more often; last week he looked like he wasn't even going through progressions; I expect this is being hammered into him this week, and you will see TO with a large number of short receptions.
Click to expand...
POSSESSION-POSSESSION-POSSESSION Is what should be being hammered into Romo's skull about now.
 
Bobcat10 said:
tombonneau said:
Bobcat10 said:
And Brady had his worst game of the year when Moss was held in check.
Click to expand...
And by worse you mean 58% completions, 265 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs and 105.7 rating. ;)Just putting his season in perspective.
Click to expand...
I know. That's pretty sick. :thumbup:
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Stallworth had a huge drop on what would have been a big gainer (some thought TD, but I'm not so sure). Evans dropped a first down catch deep in the Pats end. Brady missed some wide open receivers on the sideline a few times while under little pressure.I'd call those unforced errors and something we didnt' see much of at all vs. the previous 4 opponents. And yet the Pats still put up 34. If Brady avoid those kinds of throws again and the receivers have better hands, Dallas is in trouble.
 
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tombonneau said:
According to article in Boston Herald today, Waddle Phillips plans to triple cover Moss. That should leave Welker, Stallworth & Watson (already a must start) open all day.If you've got them, start Welker & Stallworth with confidence this week. :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Right :rolleyes: Nobody is going to be triple teamed. Nobody. They'll roll coverage his way at times but triple coverage? Nope.
 
What I'm interested in seeing is how Bellicek takes Witten out of the game. He's the key to stopping Dallas, not T.O.

I see Bellicek blanketing Witten with a linebacker and a defensive back at all times to take the option away from Romo. If he's able to do that and they shut down the running game the game's over!

Patriots = 34 Cowboys = 23

 
As the OP & Pats homer, I was actually shocked Stallworth & Welker did as well as they did.

For Moss owners, this could be more of the same. Seems Ds are now totally focused on Moss which is opening things up more & more for S&W.

Obviously, Moss will still have great games, and was a bogus PI call away from 100+ 2 TD day, but I think he's going to be more of a steady 100/1 machine than having huge games like he did in Week 1.

Still great for a WR2, but I don't think he'll have many dominant games.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
BigTex said:
Letum said:
I'm sure Wade would reveal his actual gameplan to the New England media during a conference call...
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: I still think that Moss/Welker/Stallworth/Watson will be too much for the Cowboys.

NE will probably run 3-Wide sets and a no huddle style offense, with Henry out, anyone one of these receivers are going to be gold, gold I tell you. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
NE went 3-wide and it killed the Cowboys, Nate Jones got torched.
 
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