Star Wars The Last Jedi Episode 8 thread: this thread sucks, you should avoid it even after you've seen the movie (1 Viewer)

[CentralPA]

Saw it Saturday.  I loved it.  Tied a bow up on the Skywalker's and now it's a Rey versus Kylo showdown in the last movie.  I'd place it third behind A New Hope and Empire.  I'd say it was on Par with Rogue One too.  Rian Johnson did an excellent job.

 

[Todem]

It really seems like the original trilogy is completely blocking the ability for anyone to truly enjoy another Star Wars movie.  Let go of the past and you may start enjoying things more.

Total BS. 

I really enjoyed Episode 3. Like a lot. I also still find enjoyment in The Phantom Menace because there are some great performances (Love Qui Gon and Obi Wan, love Maul and love The Emperor) The Pod Race is epic as well as the greatest light saber duel in Star Wars history. Episode 2 sucked on every level.

I love The Force Awakens and I love Rogue One.

The Last Jedi is weak. I don't understand why some people can't express their opinion on a truly subjective matter without getting a post like this "Let go of the past BS".

I have fully embraced every Star Wars movie (other than Episode 2 as to me it is so freaking awful) and tv series as well. I really enjoy the Clone Wars and Rebels. Great stuff.

And the last two Disney Star Wars movies were awesome for me (TFA and R1). So this was a huge let down when comparing it to simply the previous two films Disney has released in this rebooted franchise.

And yeah the Original trilogy is still the best....no question (in my mind). Simply because they are better movies. Not because they are older.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I will say that I think they did an interesting choice of making it have the feel that anybody can be a Jedi now.  Getting away from all the midichlorian BS and saying that Rey's parents are nobodies and showing that kid at the end.  It will be undercut next movie if they reveal that Kylo was lying about her parents, but I really liked that they put that feeling in the movie for kids growing up with these new ones.  

 

[shadyridr]

I will say that I think they did an interesting choice of making it have the feel that anybody can be a Jedi now.  Getting away from all the midichlorian BS and saying that Rey's parents are nobodies and showing that kid at the end.  It will be undercut next movie if they reveal that Kylo was lying about her parents, but I really liked that they put that feeling in the movie for kids growing up with these new ones.  

Weren't Anakin's parents basically nobodies?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Total BS. 

I really enjoyed Episode 3. Like a lot. I also still find enjoyment in The Phantom Menace because there are some great performances (Love Qui Gon and Obi Wan, love Maul and love The Emperor) The Pod Race is epic as well as the greatest light saber duel in Star Wars history. Episode 2 sucked on every level.

I love The Force Awakens and I love Rogue One.

The Last Jedi is weak. I don't understand why some people can't express their opinion on a truly subjective matter without getting a post like this "Let go of the past BS".

I have fully embraced every Star Wars movie (other than Episode 2 as to me it is so freaking awful) and tv series as well. I really enjoy the Clone Wars and Rebels. Great stuff.

And the last two Disney Star Wars movies were awesome for me (TFA and R1). So this was a huge let down when comparing it to simply the previous two films Disney has released in this rebooted franchise.

And yeah the Original trilogy is still the best....no question (in my mind). Simply because they are better movies. Not because they are older.

I do find it disappointing that they haven't been able to capture the epic feel of that light saber battle (or the music for that) in any of the other SW movies.  

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Weren't Anakin's parents basically nobodies?

I think in the prequels they hinted at Anakin being immaculately conceived 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Weren't Anakin's parents basically nobodies?

We never really knew about his dad, and it was hinted that he was born of the force or some nonsense.  

Just saying that there was a lot of focus about what made you special is what was floating in your blood.  

 

[shadyridr]

I think in the prequels they hinted at Anakin being immaculately conceived 

yeesh, I try to forget everything I can about those prequels

 

[Todem]

This movie had more flaws than the last two but it still had plenty of "WOW" moments for me.  It seemed like maybe they were too spread out though.  I agree with everyone that says there were parts that could've been cut out completely.  I look forward to seeing it again with some friends so we can critique it together.

I agree....some awesome wow moments. And I am looking forward to seeing it again with my son (some amazing action sequences and cool #### blowing up which is why you like these movies too). I am sure I will find some more things to like. But the weak sauce will be even stronger too. It was a very uneven movie for me personally. Too many WTF bad moments and horrendously bad and forced humor. They actually made me feel like this was Space Balls in the first 15-20 minutes. And then the mocking of Kylo by Snoke about his mask. 

In The Force Awakens his initial appearances were great, menacing and evil. They blew that up in The Last Jedi with him being so mocked by his master. The relationship between Snoke and Kylo was bizarre and off. Nothing like Vader and The Emperor. Also Snoke was a evil MoFo and they just killed him off so quickly. Turned me off. I wanted his character explored, we know nothing about him.....absolutely nothing. And now he is dead. Done. Kylo is now the supreme leader. Boom. Meh.....bad character development. Something the original trilogy was great at. Even R1 had great character development. Worlds ahead of this movie.

Even the new characters I really enjoyed in TFA (Poe, Finn and Rey) were taken in directions that were just really off for me. The movie just did not click for me and seemed like a massive U-Turn from the foundation of The Force Awakens. The ruined Finn's character in this movie. Destroyed it actually. And Poe? Comes off like a total insubordinate ###. Nothing like Han Solo as a reluctant hero. 

Even how they handled Luke......meh. Hamil did everything he could to salvage the script he was given. He even came out and said he did not like the direction they took his character in. That should say something. 

Again not a horrible movie and no where near the lows of Episode 1 or 2.....but no where near the highs of any of the original films or even the two recent ones. It really was underwhelming.

 

[Hawkeye21]

Weren't Anakin's parents basically nobodies?

There was no father.  She just became pregnant with him.  Like something right out of the Bible.

 

[Tom Servo]

The Jedi eschew material possession, so it's a non-issue.  I'd be more concerned with a Wookie rolling snake eyes on the come out roll and just growling/menacing the croupier until they pay his weighty pass line bet anyway.

Wookies do not lose...ever. If a Wookie loses, everyone loses. C3PO found that out. 

 

[Hawkeye21]

I agree....some awesome wow moments. And i am looking forward to seeing it again with my son. I am sure I will find some more things to like. But the weak sauce will be even stronger too. It was a very uneven movie for me personally. Too many WTF bad moments and horrendously bad and forced humor. They actually made me feel like this was Space Balls in the first 15-20 minutes. And then the mocking of Kylo by Snoke about his mask. 

I've heard from some that the moments they thought were weak made more sense the second time they watched it.  I'm hoping it does for me too.

The WTF? moments were not enough to ruin the movie for me but they were too noticeable to make it a great movie.  I didn't care for the forced humor either.

I was sad to see Kylo smash his mask because his character while wearing it was so awesome.  I loved the sound of his voice while wearing it.  I did enjoy the relationship between Kylo and Ren though.

 

[Lehigh98]

Yeah, they totally got me, too. I thought he was really there. But with hindsight you see that he never actually interacted with Kylo. Light sabers never met, Luke only dodged that kind of thing. I thought that was well done. 

I'm actually rather angry that they killed off Luke this way. He was so tired from pretending to be on the planet that he died? That's just lame. 

Catching up, maybe this is mentioned in the new few pages I'll read.  Would it have just been better to have him somehow be there in person and be struck down by Kylo a la Obi Wan Kenobi?  It's like they wanted to kill him off but still be able to one up Kylo first.  

"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."  

 

[Sheriff Bart]

Seriously. Like how long did it take an escape pod to fly to casino planet? And if casino planet was that close, why didn't they try to fly there? And how many hours did they waste dicking around on said casino planet? Looked like Finn was wanting to gamble a bit and catch a show.

Finn had a fortune on the Steelers last night but got screwed by the dark side once again.

 

[Sammy3469]

Catching up, maybe this is mentioned in the new few pages I'll read.  Would it have just been better to have him somehow be there in person and be struck down by Kylo a la Obi Wan Kenobi?  It's like they wanted to kill him off but still be able to one up Kylo first.  

"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."  

Except he had no spaceship to get him physically there (which is why they showed his in the water).  It also sets him up to be "there" (like Yoda in this one for him) for Rey in the next one.  

 

[bagger]

The same General Hux that fell for a crank call as an excuse to not destroy the resistance to start the movie? Yea I'm not buying his decisions.

Ok that’s fine, but that was the reason specifically ordered on screen. There shouldn’t be any confusion there. 

 

[bigbottom]

I thought the crank call was hilarious.  And I could absolutely see Han doing something like that, so it didn't feel out of place in the Star Wars universe to me.

 

[Todem]

I thought the crank call was hilarious.  And I could absolutely see Han doing something like that, so it didn't feel out of place in the Star Wars universe to me.

Total opposite for me. I thought it was hideous, forced and really bad. Space Balls bad.

 

[Lehigh98]

Except he had no spaceship to get him physically there (which is why they showed his in the water).  It also sets him up to be "there" (like Yoda in this one for him) for Rey in the next one.  

They could have not shown the 3 seconds of the x-wing underwater and boom, he has a way to be at the battle for real. 

Obi Wan was "there" for Luke too.  Just seemed odd for him to show up to one up the student that he failed and then almost killed in cold blood and then just dissolve alone on a remote island. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Total opposite for me. I thought it was hideous, forced and really bad. Space Balls bad.

I do wonder if my opinion on the movie might be a little better if that had come in the middle of the movie.  Like I said, I really dug the opening to TFA, and then this starting and 4mins into the movie I am already   and like you I felt it was a bit off base.  Maybe on the next watches I will look past that a bit more now that I know it's coming.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

They could have not shown the 3 seconds of the x-wing underwater and boom, he has a way to be at the battle for real. 

Obi Wan was "there" for Luke too.  Just seemed odd for him to have a last win and then just dissolve alone on a remote island. 

I just assumed that was a call back to Empire and his X-wing in the swamp.  I thought he could just use the force and pull it out of the water and fly away.  

 

[glvsav37]

I just assumed that was a call back to Empire and his X-wing in the swamp.  I thought he could just use the force and pull it out of the water and fly away.  

submerged underwater for all those years? totally voids the warranty. 

 

[Hawkeye21]

I actually laughed at the prank call to Hux but even though it was funny it didn't feel like it fit with Star Wars that much.  It did remind me of Han talking to one of the Empire's guys while they were in the control room for the prison when they rescued Leia.

 

[LAUNCH]

Kind of cool that they referenced the hyperspace tracking in RO.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRR90BkUIAEsunk.jpg

 

[KarmaPolice]

submerged underwater for all those years? totally voids the warranty. 

I am sure he could put a force bubble around it.  

 

[Sidewinder16]

I do wonder if my opinion on the movie might be a little better if that had come in the middle of the movie.  Like I said, I really dug the opening to TFA, and then this starting and 4mins into the movie I am already   and like you I felt it was a bit off base.  Maybe on the next watches I will look past that a bit more now that I know it's coming.  

Poe is pulling the same shtick in the first few minutes of TFA.  We already know Poe's personality.  I'm not getting why it's so offsetting to some in TLJ.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Poe is pulling the same shtick in the first few minutes of TFA.  We already know Poe's personality.  I'm not getting why it's so offsetting to some in TLJ.

We obviously don't agree, but I guess that is more in line to me with Han's "that was a boring conversation anyway" type comments.  I didn't love some the jokiness of the TFA, but I didn't think it ever overtook a scene.  This was front and center to start off the movie.   

 

[snogger]

I actually laughed at the prank call to Hux but even though it was funny it didn't feel like it fit with Star Wars that much.  It did remind me of Han talking to one of the Empire's guys while they were in the control room for the prison when they rescued Leia.

Exactly.. Same "Prank" call, to delay.. seems people were OK with Han doing it, but Poe does it and some lose their mind.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Exactly.. Same "Prank" call, to delay.. seems people were OK with Han doing it, but Poe does it and some lose their mind.

Hyperbole is strong with this one.  

 

[Scoresman]

"Hi yes is this General Hux?  I'm holding for Genreal Hux."

"I have message from General Leia Organa."

"Please move your star destroyer so the Stern convoy can pass"

"BABABOOEY BABABOOEY HOWARD STERN'S PENIS"

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I can't believe how stupid some of you people are. 

Really?

 

[Buzzbait]

It’s a 93% on rotten tomatoes right now which f’ing insane. If it wasn’t Star Wars, we’d be talking 50% tops. 

The Phantom Menace was a 55% and the Clone Wars was a 66% if that shows you anything about the pass that these movies get. 

93% from the critics but 56% from the audience. I'm somewhere in between. It's nowhere near as glowing as some of the reviews but I was entertained.

 

[KarmaPolice]

93% from the critics but 56% from the audience. I'm somewhere in between. It's nowhere near as glowing as some of the reviews but I was entertained.

This surprises me.  

 

[Evilgrin 72]

People need to stop talking about the RT score as if it's a measure of quality from 1-100.  It's just the % of critics that would recommend it.  If 100 critics all give the movie 6/10, it would have a 100% "score" despite being barely better than average.  If another film had an 80% score, but 80 critics thought it was a 10/10 masterpiece and the other 20 thought it was below average and gave it a 4/10, its average score would be 8.8/10 compared to 6/10 - but the latter, "lesser" film would have a much higher "score" on RT.

 

[Todem]

Exactly.. Same "Prank" call, to delay.. seems people were OK with Han doing it, but Poe does it and some lose their mind.

Not even close to the same....at all.

 

[Buzzbait]

Saw it Sat and for me my feelings went from thinking it was fantastic at times to others being either ridicules or boring. 

Pros: 
- Having Luke back with a role that was satisfying (Hamill was great).
- The whole scene in Snoke's chamber.
- Yoda appearance.
- Rey works. I'm good with her taking on the mantle as the Jedi hope.

Cons:
- Leia spacewalk. Stop. Just stop. That was cringe worthy.
- Too many attempts to inject humor that seemed forced.
- Poe/Rose - Poe's character has jumped the shark and Rose's instant crush is awkward.
- So the Rebel "force" is down to about a dozen people? Seriously? Yeah I get that their are sympathizers in the outer rim but the core alliance being down to the size of a basketball team is just stupid.

 

[KarmaPolice]

People need to stop talking about the RT score as if it's a measure of quality from 1-100.  It's just the % of critics that would recommend it.  If 100 critics all give the movie 6/10, it would have a 100% "score" despite being barely better than average.  If another film had an 80% score, but 80 critics thought it was a 10/10 masterpiece and the other 20 thought it was below average and gave it a 4/10, its average score would be 8.8/10 compared to 6/10 - but the latter, "lesser" film would have a much higher "score" on RT.

Sure, but all the sites are an average of what the ratings are.  You can see that on RT, but what confuses people too much is when they say that 93% of critics like it, and say it as those it's average is a 93 out of 100 as far as actual score that they give it.  Like you said, an above average movie could have 100% scores of just 6/10 and get that 100% on RT, but it's average rating is still only 6.0, so people have to look at both things for the whole picture.  0 clue why people use that site as it's such a silly system.  

 

[Hawkeye21]

Metacritic now has more negative user reviews than positive.  Never thought I'd see that.  I completely disagree because it is not a 4.9 out of 10.  I feel some people fail to put things in perspective when rating something.  If you're rating a movie on a scale of 10 you need to keep in mind the other bad movies out there an where it ranks with them as well.

This movie does not deserve a rating below 6 in my opinion.

 

[Buzzbait]

Exactly.. Same "Prank" call, to delay.. seems people were OK with Han doing it, but Poe does it and some lose their mind.

All in the character and the delivery. If I would do stand up delivering Rodney Dangerfield's classic bits I'm betting I would be looking at blank stares.

I'm not losing my mind about it but it certainly didn't work IMO. Poe doing it felt forced for need of a joke.

 

[Kraft...]

Nice to finally know where green milk comes from 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Metacritic now has more negative user reviews than positive.  Never thought I'd see that.  I completely disagree because it is not a 4.9 out of 10.  I feel some people fail to put things in perspective when rating something.  If you're rating a movie on a scale of 10 you need to keep in mind the other bad movies out there an where it ranks with them as well.

This movie does not deserve a rating below 6 in my opinion.

Everybody's rating system is on the same - just pop into the movie thread and see the big difference in how people rate movies.  5/10 is average, so is it really hard to think that people thought it was average or a little less than average?

 

[shadyridr]

There's nothing wrong with jokes but it is definitely in the delivery. Like other's said, Poe basically delivered a joke in the beginning of TFA as well. "Are you gonna talk first or should I?" But it worked in that one. In this one it felt forced and Spaceballs like. I don't know how else to describe it. Not really a big deal though. Its one line in a solid movie.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Nice to finally know where green milk comes from 

It's blue milk guys 

 

[Insein]

I do wonder if my opinion on the movie might be a little better if that had come in the middle of the movie.  Like I said, I really dug the opening to TFA, and then this starting and 4mins into the movie I am already   and like you I felt it was a bit off base.  Maybe on the next watches I will look past that a bit more now that I know it's coming.  

That's actually a really good point. We got a lot of cool action to start with in TFA and get the menacing Kylo Ren stalking up to Poe before he does his "I talk first, you talk first?" But it was ok there because he was in a helpless position and that's how his character copes. Like a cocky SOB. Kylo did not fall for his #### and just took him away to torture answers out of him.

Here we get the supposed leader of the first order that over saw Death Star 3 destroying a whole system of planets killing trillions of people, and he's not ordering the single xwing be destroyed immediately because he called to talk to him?

 

[Psychopav]

I have been thinking about this more, and the too much Finn aside, I think a sticking point for me was that it felt like the people telling these stories weren't quite on the same page with the overall story as was apparent in the originals.  I know people are on board with some of the twists and turns but they didn't click with me.  Combining that with what felt like a lack of consistency of what the characters are or what can be done in these worlds.  I mean some of us nerds were #####ing that all of a sudden in Ep 1, Jedis can sprint at light speed.

Examples:

• building up Snoke, but nope - we didn't need to bother much with him.  Phasma was another one that seemed to be all over all the ads but was a 2 second character.
  
• so many new things like Rey and Kylo linked like Voldemort and Harry, Luke's image being able to full on battle with Kylo, Leia using the force to save herself in space etc..  
  
• buildup and let down of other things like evidently the island holds a force that is really dark that has the power to draw Jedi's in, but it's just a mirror that doesn't tell you who your parents are?  Luke's dead, nope he's not, Oh I guess he really is.  
  

I know we are being a bit tongue in cheek and going all GoT thread in here a bit, but I guess for me overall the humor felt out of place, I felt like it was more inconsistent in how it fit into the the world, and it was about 40 mins too long as we watched Finn and Rose bumble around.  Also felt more Lucas-y than the last two with needing to have cutesy animals at every location. Felt like the studio told Johnson that he could do whatever as long as there are X number of cute new characters to sell merch to the kids with.  

There are great moments for sure - ie taking out a ship by flying through it at light speed, and I think that 's what kept it from dipping into the Episodes 1-2 level for me, but I am not sure how many time I will want to rewatch this one.   I do like that they gave Johnson the keys to the next set of 3 movies, so maybe that will have more of a consistent feel through the three moives.  

The issue I had with the humor is that, where it should help with fleshing out a character, instead it was used almost haphazardly.  If it doesn't fit with the suspension of disbelief (Iike Hux playing the straight man to an absurd degree), it becomes less in-universe humor and more degrading of the universe itself.  It becomes parody.  And while I don't expect Star Wars to be Lord of the Rings I do expect it to take itself seriously enough that you feel some weightiness, some history, to it.  The humor may be a symptom of the broader issue of the writers being invested in this to a lesser degree than the long time fans expect and (imo) the franchise deserves.  To your point, the prequels may have taken this error too far in the opposite extreme (midichlorians, Anakin's virgin birth, etc.), but at the end of the day strip away the absurdity and at least we're left with a universe that we're supposed to care about on a deeper level than Flash Gordon.  Do the same here and you get the same thing you get with Transformers:  the heart and soul just aren't easy to find, other than the attachment to what the OT brings to the table.

 

[Psychopav]

The ironic thing about this is that the originally trilogy was plenty flawed.   If people would see Return of the Jedi today for the first time for example, I think they would be shocked at how silly and kiddish it was.

Totally agree with this though.  Most of the depth that people are looking for was fleshed out in the EU.

 

[Insein]

People need to stop talking about the RT score as if it's a measure of quality from 1-100.  It's just the % of critics that would recommend it.  If 100 critics all give the movie 6/10, it would have a 100% "score" despite being barely better than average.  If another film had an 80% score, but 80 critics thought it was a 10/10 masterpiece and the other 20 thought it was below average and gave it a 4/10, its average score would be 8.8/10 compared to 6/10 - but the latter, "lesser" film would have a much higher "score" on RT.

Metacritic is more of an average as critics rate it on a literal 1-100 scale. It has an 86% among 54 certified critics that rated it. Even there though it has a user score of 4.9 out of 10.

 

[Psychopav]

I think in the prequels they hinted at Anakin being immaculately conceived the product of a virgin/asexual birth.

FYP

 

[Scoresman]

I hope one of the off year movies is Rain Man: Star Wars Edition where a slow, force sensitive guy goes to that casino planet and makes millions.  

 

[Psychopav]

I agree....some awesome wow moments. And I am looking forward to seeing it again with my son (some amazing action sequences and cool #### blowing up which is why you like these movies too). I am sure I will find some more things to like. But the weak sauce will be even stronger too. It was a very uneven movie for me personally. Too many WTF bad moments and horrendously bad and forced humor. They actually made me feel like this was Space Balls in the first 15-20 minutes. And then the mocking of Kylo by Snoke about his mask. 

In The Force Awakens his initial appearances were great, menacing and evil. They blew that up in The Last Jedi with him being so mocked by his master. The relationship between Snoke and Kylo was bizarre and off. Nothing like Vader and The Emperor. Also Snoke was a evil MoFo and they just killed him off so quickly. Turned me off. I wanted his character explored, we know nothing about him.....absolutely nothing. And now he is dead. Done. Kylo is now the supreme leader. Boom. Meh.....bad character development. Something the original trilogy was great at. Even R1 had great character development. Worlds ahead of this movie.

Even the new characters I really enjoyed in TFA (Poe, Finn and Rey) were taken in directions that were just really off for me. The movie just did not click for me and seemed like a massive U-Turn from the foundation of The Force Awakens. The ruined Finn's character in this movie. Destroyed it actually. And Poe? Comes off like a total insubordinate ###. Nothing like Han Solo as a reluctant hero. 

Even how they handled Luke......meh. Hamil did everything he could to salvage the script he was given. He even came out and said he did not like the direction they took his character in. That should say something. 

Again not a horrible movie and no where near the lows of Episode 1 or 2.....but no where near the highs of any of the original films or even the two recent ones. It really was underwhelming.

They should have had Finn make the ultimate sacrifice and kept Luke alive.  Could have even still done the astral projection thing.  Would have been a much better ending and made us much more invested in the future of the characters. imo