Unless we're talking about the Alcorn State Hall of Fame, not even close. I'm a big McNair fan but let's be realistic here folks. If somehow he stays healthy and rattles off one or two SB wins in the next few years [a minor miracle], then he would at least be worth discussing. Otherwise?![]()
Since when does one MVP award [co-MVP at that] and a SB appearance equate to "potential HOFer?"McNair is tough, steadily improved as a passer throughout his career, and was a winner when he had the horses. But he's not one of the best of his era, which means he's not worth of the Hall.I'm sort of on the fence with McNair. He has a League MVP under his belt. And personally I think his 1 play in the Superbowl was the greatest QB play ever. I think it was 4th down on like the 30 yd line or so (on the last drive) and he scrambled broke away from 2 sacks, kept on his feet and made a 1st down strike downfield. That was the single most amazing QB play I've ever seen with so much on the line. Its easily fogotten about because they came up 1 yd. short.
no way.
interesting point. For all those voting 'no'...Say that Dyson gets in the end zone, the Titans win in OT, and McNair is named MVP....does that change your vote?I'm sort of on the fence with McNair. He has a League MVP under his belt. And personally I think his 1 play in the Superbowl was the greatest QB play ever. I think it was 4th down on like the 30 yd line or so (on the last drive) and he scrambled broke away from 2 sacks, kept on his feet and made a 1st down strike downfield. That was the single most amazing QB play I've ever seen with so much on the line. Its easily fogotten about because they came up 1 yd. short.
I'm just asking because I'm not sure...I know that there is nobody to ever win the NBA MVP without later going into the Hall(unless they aren't yet eligible). Are there any football MVPs to not get into the Hall?Since when does one MVP award [co-MVP at that] and a SB appearance equate to "potential HOFer?"McNair is tough, steadily improved as a passer throughout his career, and was a winner when he had the horses. But he's not one of the best of his era, which means he's not worth of the Hall.I'm sort of on the fence with McNair. He has a League MVP under his belt. And personally I think his 1 play in the Superbowl was the greatest QB play ever. I think it was 4th down on like the 30 yd line or so (on the last drive) and he scrambled broke away from 2 sacks, kept on his feet and made a 1st down strike downfield. That was the single most amazing QB play I've ever seen with so much on the line. Its easily fogotten about because they came up 1 yd. short.
No.interesting point. For all those voting 'no'...Say that Dyson gets in the end zone, the Titans win in OT, and McNair is named MVP....does that change your vote?
Kurt Warner x2Are there any football MVPs to not get into the Hall?
Most recently, Thurman Thomas in 1991 and Boomer Esiason in 1988. I assume that we are going with the AP selection here and no others.Edit to add: Mark Moseley in 1982, Ken Anderson in 1981, Brian Sipe in 1980, Bert Jones in 1976, and Larry Brown in 1972. I'm not interested in going back any further than that.Are there any football MVPs to not get into the Hall?
Falls under the category of "not eligible."Kurt Warner x2Are there any football MVPs to not get into the Hall?
Probably pretty safe to assume he's never getting in, though.Falls under the category of "not eligible."Kurt Warner x2Are there any football MVPs to not get into the Hall?
Who knows? What if he finishes in the top three for career passer rasting? Add 2 MVPs, 1 championship, and 2 trips to the SB, and those sound likes a pretty impressive resume.Probably pretty safe to assume he's never getting in, though.
Good stuff. I don't think anyone would even dream that Brad Johnson is a HOF QB, and his numbers (other than rushing) are nearly identical to McNair's.For comparison: Brad Johnson
Pass Rush
G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
Mcnair 142 | 2305 3871 59.5 27141 7.0 156 102 | 612 3451 36 |
Johnsn 130 | 2349 3797 61.9 25798 6.8 155 102 | 240 581 7 |
Both are also two-time pro-bowlers and both have been to the Superbowl. Johnson won and McNair lost. Johnson has more top ten seasonal rankings. McNair has rushed for more and has an MVP. They're both fringe Top 40 all time stats. Bottom line is that I wouldn't consider either one to have had a HOF type career. Both very solid, above average QBs.
You don't think that's the only reason Moon got in, do you?How many black quarterbacks in the HOF?
Believe it or not, when he becomes eligible for election, someone (probably Jesse Jackson) will raise it. And it will impact some votes.
No, I don't. I think Moon was worthy of it. The only point I was making is that I think someone will raise the race card when McNair becomes eligible, and that it will impact some votes.You don't think that's the only reason Moon got in, do you?How many black quarterbacks in the HOF?
Believe it or not, when he becomes eligible for election, someone (probably Jesse Jackson) will raise it. And it will impact some votes.
Have you beenI think he is a HOF, maybe not first ballot but he is a HOF.
Agreed. He's on the side of NOT getting in right now, and I'm not sure he ever will. But I must say, that he is one of the grittiest players I've ever watched. To play through the numerous injuries he has, and led that team for many, many years, is inspiring...I'd vote borderline at best unless he has several more solid years. He hasn't had a single season where he ranked Top 5 in completions, yardage, or TDs. And he's roughly fringe Top 40 all-time in those categories. IMO, there are other QBs that I would like to see in before McNair that haven't made it in yet, so I would have to vote "no" at this point.
Well, he didn't get in the endzone so it's a moot point. But hypothetically speaking, one SB title with his career stats would still not put him on the HOF radar.interesting point. For all those voting 'no'...Say that Dyson gets in the end zone, the Titans win in OT, and McNair is named MVP....does that change your vote?I'm sort of on the fence with McNair. He has a League MVP under his belt. And personally I think his 1 play in the Superbowl was the greatest QB play ever. I think it was 4th down on like the 30 yd line or so (on the last drive) and he scrambled broke away from 2 sacks, kept on his feet and made a 1st down strike downfield. That was the single most amazing QB play I've ever seen with so much on the line. Its easily fogotten about because they came up 1 yd. short.
I don't think the color of his skin is going to be an issue, particularly given the proliferation of black QBs in this era.How many black quarterbacks in the HOF?
Believe it or not, when he becomes eligible for election, someone (probably Jesse Jackson) will raise it. And it will impact some votes.
I wouldn't write off McNair's rushing numbers. I think that puts him in a different class than Brad Johnson. That said McNair is not a Hall of Famer. He doesn't have either the championships or the career totals you'd expect from a Hall of Famer (of his era). He's been a great competitor and an accurate passer despite less-than-stellar receivers but I don't think it's enough. He's still active and has a chance to help himself further but he's 33, has an injury history, and he's playing on a bad team.AP's Non Hall of Fame QB NFL MVP Selections (for HOF-eligible QB's):Good stuff. I don't think anyone would even dream that Brad Johnson is a HOF QB, and his numbers (other than rushing) are nearly identical to McNair's.For comparison: Brad Johnson
Pass Rush
G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
Mcnair 142 | 2305 3871 59.5 27141 7.0 156 102 | 612 3451 36 |
Johnsn 130 | 2349 3797 61.9 25798 6.8 155 102 | 240 581 7 |
Both are also two-time pro-bowlers and both have been to the Superbowl. Johnson won and McNair lost. Johnson has more top ten seasonal rankings. McNair has rushed for more and has an MVP. They're both fringe Top 40 all time stats. Bottom line is that I wouldn't consider either one to have had a HOF type career. Both very solid, above average QBs.
I give you credit for being an obvious fan that can give a truthful answer.McNair's career is about the effort and two plays epitomize his career:
1. The last drive of the SB where McNair escapes two certain sackers with his unique combination of power and elusiveness, and hits the open receiver downfield is the best of McNair throughout his career (think his multi-TD game in Jacksonville to get to the SB, a great, individual performance in a big game that is rarely discussed). It is the quality of the plays and the situations in which McNair earned his stats that differ from many of the players statistically comparable to him.
2. The last play of the SB where McNair comes up just short of the glory. He was just shy of some big moments several times in his career. He often didn't get the help he needed to see the desired results. Many of the things that happened (or didnt' happen) were plays where you couldn't fault the Titan's QB, but you can't award him the ultimate prize, either.
McNair has been a player that carried his football team on his shoulders in a way that is too subjective to justify a spot in the Hall of Fame. Unless McNair regains his health, has 2-3 MVP-quality seasons and wins a SB, his resume isn't even close to earning this accolade.
McNair's leadership, skill on 3rd down, and ability to play at a high level when hurt are legendary. But not all legends are Hall of Fame worthy. Some come up short despite a Hall of Fame effort. Steve McNair played with Hall of Fame effort, but didn't get Hall of Fame results.
No, I don't. I think Moon was worthy of it. The only point I was making is that I think someone will raise the race card when McNair becomes eligible, and that it will impact some votes.You don't think that's the only reason Moon got in, do you?How many black quarterbacks in the HOF?
Believe it or not, when he becomes eligible for election, someone (probably Jesse Jackson) will raise it. And it will impact some votes.
I don't think I see what you are saying here. Are you suggesting that these three merited serious consideration for the Hall but were overlooked because of their race? Or are you comparing McNair to three other black QBs that did not have any real hope of getting in? Or something entirely different?Just like the time someone played the race card when James Harris became eligible..oh wait it didn't happen with him.
I meant when Superbowl MVP Doug Williams became eligible..not him either?
Maybe it will happen when Randell Cunningham becomes eligible.
Wow, I'm surprised that theres so many. I wonder why theres so many more MVPs who don't make the HOF in football than in any other sport.Most recently, Thurman Thomas in 1991 and Boomer Esiason in 1988. I assume that we are going with the AP selection here and no others.Edit to add: Mark Moseley in 1982, Ken Anderson in 1981, Brian Sipe in 1980, Bert Jones in 1976, and Larry Brown in 1972. I'm not interested in going back any further than that.Are there any football MVPs to not get into the Hall?
I have to admit that I started this thread thinking that an MVP is pretty much a surefire HOF ticket....I stand corrected.I wouldn't write off McNair's rushing numbers. I think that puts him in a different class than Brad Johnson. That said McNair is not a Hall of Famer. He doesn't have either the championships or the career totals you'd expect from a Hall of Famer (of his era). He's been a great competitor and an accurate passer despite less-than-stellar receivers but I don't think it's enough. He's still active and has a chance to help himself further but he's 33, has an injury history, and he's playing on a bad team.AP's Non Hall of Fame QB NFL MVP Selections (for HOF-eligible QB's):Good stuff. I don't think anyone would even dream that Brad Johnson is a HOF QB, and his numbers (other than rushing) are nearly identical to McNair's.For comparison: Brad Johnson
Pass Rush
G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
Mcnair 142 | 2305 3871 59.5 27141 7.0 156 102 | 612 3451 36 |
Johnsn 130 | 2349 3797 61.9 25798 6.8 155 102 | 240 581 7 |
Both are also two-time pro-bowlers and both have been to the Superbowl. Johnson won and McNair lost. Johnson has more top ten seasonal rankings. McNair has rushed for more and has an MVP. They're both fringe Top 40 all time stats. Bottom line is that I wouldn't consider either one to have had a HOF type career. Both very solid, above average QBs.
1959 Conerly
1968 Morrall
1969 Gabriel
1970 Brodie
1974 Stabler
1976 Bert Jones
1980 Sipe
1981 Ken Anderson
1983 Theismann
1988 Esiason
Anderson is the best candidate on that list IMO. Gannon (2002) and Warner (1999, 2001) won't be picked when they do become eligible.
If you count every organization that selects MVP's then add Frankie Albert, Meredith, Jaworski, Phil Simms, and Cunningham to the above list.
1) Because the Pro Football HOF really isn't that easy to get into, particularly for non QBs2) I'm not sure your contention is exactly right...haven't plenty of baseball MVPs failed to get inducted and they'll let anyone inWow, I'm surprised that theres so many. I wonder why theres so many more MVPs who don't make the HOF in football than in any other sport.Most recently, Thurman Thomas in 1991 and Boomer Esiason in 1988. I assume that we are going with the AP selection here and no others.Edit to add: Mark Moseley in 1982, Ken Anderson in 1981, Brian Sipe in 1980, Bert Jones in 1976, and Larry Brown in 1972. I'm not interested in going back any further than that.Are there any football MVPs to not get into the Hall?
I'm not sure McNair, McNabb or Warner even deserve the "not quite", at least not yet. McNabb doesn't have gaudy numbers, an MVP or a SB ring. Sure he's got a great career winning percentage and has been to 5 Pro Bowls, but that's in no way enough. He needs plenty of help. Warner has two MVPs and would be the first NFL two-time MVP not inducted, but he really needs a healthy, Pro Bowl caliber three or four year run in Arizona to get into the "fringe" department, in my view.My 2 cents:
HOF QBs of this era- Favre, Brady, Manning
Not Quite- McNair, McNabb, Warner
It’s the bolded part.Most people don’t see McNair as a HOFer (about 80% in this poll don’t).I don't think I see what you are saying here. Are you suggesting that these three merited serious consideration for the Hall but were overlooked because of their race? Or are you comparing McNair to three other black QBs that did not have any real hope of getting in? Or something entirely different?Just like the time someone played the race card when James Harris became eligible..oh wait it didn't happen with him.
I meant when Superbowl MVP Doug Williams became eligible..not him either?
Maybe it will happen when Randell Cunningham becomes eligible.
I don't disagree with you that McNair isn't getting in, but certainly he's closer than Harris (who never started an entire season, only made it to one pro bowl, and never seriously contended for a major statistical category at any point in his career), Cunningham, and D. Williams.Most people don’t see McNair as a HOFer (about 80% in this poll don’t).
None of the other guys I listed were HOFer’s and there was no Jessie Jackson protest on their part. I don’t see why McNair would cause one.
I don't know why you think McNair would be more of a HOF candidate than Cunningham.Cunningham is a 2-time NFL MVP [McNair is a 1-time Co MVP], and ranks higher among the all-time passing marks.I don't disagree with you that McNair isn't getting in, but certainly he's closer than Harris (who never started an entire season, only made it to one pro bowl, and never seriously contended for a major statistical category at any point in his career), Cunningham, and D. Williams.Most people don’t see McNair as a HOFer (about 80% in this poll don’t).
None of the other guys I listed were HOFer’s and there was no Jessie Jackson protest on their part. I don’t see why McNair would cause one.