What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Steve McNair = HOF? (1 Viewer)

well?

  • Yes, even if he never played another snap

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Not right now, but will be eventually

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
I'd vote borderline at best unless he has several more solid years. He hasn't had a single season where he ranked Top 5 in completions, yardage, or TDs. And he's roughly fringe Top 40 all-time in those categories. IMO, there are other QBs that I would like to see in before McNair that haven't made it in yet, so I would have to vote "no" at this point.

 
I don't think so. His career numbers will show him to be an above average QB. Very few years was he considered amongst the elite players at his position. I think we'll look back at his MVP year as an anomoly rather than the rule.

I'm not saying he was a bad quarterback at all, just not Hall-worthy.

 
Unless we're talking about the Alcorn State Hall of Fame, not even close. I'm a big McNair fan but let's be realistic here folks. If somehow he stays healthy and rattles off one or two SB wins in the next few years [a minor miracle], then he would at least be worth discussing. Otherwise? :no:

 
Nope.

Now it is possible someone can come in here with a bunch of stats and make an argument that would persuade me. But when I think Mcnair I don't think he is a hall of famer, I don't really think he is close at all.

 
Unless we're talking about the Alcorn State Hall of Fame, not even close. I'm a big McNair fan but let's be realistic here folks. If somehow he stays healthy and rattles off one or two SB wins in the next few years [a minor miracle], then he would at least be worth discussing. Otherwise? :no:
:goodposting: That says it all.

 
I rank him well behind Kenny Anderson,John Brodie, Jim Hart,and Lynn Dickie. I make him the black Brian Sipe or Bert Jones. Good, exciting at times, but not great.

 
I'm sort of on the fence with McNair. He has a League MVP under his belt. And personally I think his 1 play in the Superbowl was the greatest QB play ever. I think it was 4th down on like the 30 yd line or so (on the last drive) and he scrambled broke away from 2 sacks, kept on his feet and made a 1st down strike downfield. That was the single most amazing QB play I've ever seen with so much on the line. Its easily fogotten about because they came up 1 yd. short.

 
I'm sort of on the fence with McNair. He has a League MVP under his belt. And personally I think his 1 play in the Superbowl was the greatest QB play ever. I think it was 4th down on like the 30 yd line or so (on the last drive) and he scrambled broke away from 2 sacks, kept on his feet and made a 1st down strike downfield. That was the single most amazing QB play I've ever seen with so much on the line. Its easily fogotten about because they came up 1 yd. short.
Since when does one MVP award [co-MVP at that] and a SB appearance equate to "potential HOFer?"McNair is tough, steadily improved as a passer throughout his career, and was a winner when he had the horses. But he's not one of the best of his era, which means he's not worth of the Hall.

 
I'm sort of on the fence with McNair. He has a League MVP under his belt. And personally I think his 1 play in the Superbowl was the greatest QB play ever. I think it was 4th down on like the 30 yd line or so (on the last drive) and he scrambled broke away from 2 sacks, kept on his feet and made a 1st down strike downfield. That was the single most amazing QB play I've ever seen with so much on the line. Its easily fogotten about because they came up 1 yd. short.
interesting point. For all those voting 'no'...Say that Dyson gets in the end zone, the Titans win in OT, and McNair is named MVP....does that change your vote?

 
I'm sort of on the fence with McNair.  He has a League MVP under his belt.  And personally I think his 1 play in the Superbowl was the greatest QB play ever.  I think it was 4th down on like the 30 yd line or so (on the last drive) and he scrambled broke away from 2 sacks, kept on his feet and made a 1st down strike downfield.  That was the single most amazing QB play I've ever seen with so much on the line.  Its easily fogotten about because they came up 1 yd. short.
Since when does one MVP award [co-MVP at that] and a SB appearance equate to "potential HOFer?"McNair is tough, steadily improved as a passer throughout his career, and was a winner when he had the horses. But he's not one of the best of his era, which means he's not worth of the Hall.
I'm just asking because I'm not sure...I know that there is nobody to ever win the NBA MVP without later going into the Hall(unless they aren't yet eligible). Are there any football MVPs to not get into the Hall?

 
Are there any football MVPs to not get into the Hall?
Most recently, Thurman Thomas in 1991 and Boomer Esiason in 1988. I assume that we are going with the AP selection here and no others.Edit to add: Mark Moseley in 1982, Ken Anderson in 1981, Brian Sipe in 1980, Bert Jones in 1976, and Larry Brown in 1972. I'm not interested in going back any further than that.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Probably pretty safe to assume he's never getting in, though.
Who knows? What if he finishes in the top three for career passer rasting? Add 2 MVPs, 1 championship, and 2 trips to the SB, and those sound likes a pretty impressive resume.
 
For comparison: Brad Johnson

Pass Rush

G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |

Mcnair 142 | 2305 3871 59.5 27141 7.0 156 102 | 612 3451 36 |

Johnsn 130 | 2349 3797 61.9 25798 6.8 155 102 | 240 581 7 |

Both are also two-time pro-bowlers and both have been to the Superbowl. Johnson won and McNair lost. Johnson has more top ten seasonal rankings. McNair has rushed for more and has an MVP. They're both fringe Top 40 all time stats. Bottom line is that I wouldn't consider either one to have had a HOF type career. Both very solid, above average QBs.

 
For comparison: Brad Johnson

Pass Rush

G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |

Mcnair 142 | 2305 3871 59.5 27141 7.0 156 102 | 612 3451 36 |

Johnsn 130 | 2349 3797 61.9 25798 6.8 155 102 | 240 581 7 |

Both are also two-time pro-bowlers and both have been to the Superbowl. Johnson won and McNair lost. Johnson has more top ten seasonal rankings. McNair has rushed for more and has an MVP. They're both fringe Top 40 all time stats. Bottom line is that I wouldn't consider either one to have had a HOF type career. Both very solid, above average QBs.
Good stuff. I don't think anyone would even dream that Brad Johnson is a HOF QB, and his numbers (other than rushing) are nearly identical to McNair's.
 
How many black quarterbacks in the HOF?

Believe it or not, when he becomes eligible for election, someone (probably Jesse Jackson) will raise it. And it will impact some votes.

 
How many black quarterbacks in the HOF?

Believe it or not, when he becomes eligible for election, someone (probably Jesse Jackson) will raise it. And it will impact some votes.
You don't think that's the only reason Moon got in, do you?
 
How many black quarterbacks in the HOF?

Believe it or not, when he becomes eligible for election, someone (probably Jesse Jackson) will raise it.  And it will impact some votes.
You don't think that's the only reason Moon got in, do you?
No, I don't. I think Moon was worthy of it. The only point I was making is that I think someone will raise the race card when McNair becomes eligible, and that it will impact some votes.
 
Dont see it. Not an HOFer...a great player for a few years...but not hall material. There must be some standards maintained that seperate HOFers from pretty good players. McNair has passed for 156TDs.....he's only 264 behind Marino. He's had 3 seasons with 20 plus passing TDs....21, 22, and 24. Nice competion %s a couple of years, but not consintently solid hall #s. No rings, though he did get within a yard....but that yard was officially "the longest yard" in the history of football. It may very well be the difference. I agree that if TN wins that game, we may look it a little differently. But even in the year that TN got to that Bowl, McNair only threw for 12 TDs with 8 INTs that season. That team was led by a killer D and rock solid running game. He's been a well respected player...not a HOFer. jmho.

 
I'd vote borderline at best unless he has several more solid years. He hasn't had a single season where he ranked Top 5 in completions, yardage, or TDs. And he's roughly fringe Top 40 all-time in those categories. IMO, there are other QBs that I would like to see in before McNair that haven't made it in yet, so I would have to vote "no" at this point.
Agreed. He's on the side of NOT getting in right now, and I'm not sure he ever will. But I must say, that he is one of the grittiest players I've ever watched. To play through the numerous injuries he has, and led that team for many, many years, is inspiring...
 
I'm sort of on the fence with McNair.  He has a League MVP under his belt.  And personally I think his 1 play in the Superbowl was the greatest QB play ever.  I think it was 4th down on like the 30 yd line or so (on the last drive) and he scrambled broke away from 2 sacks, kept on his feet and made a 1st down strike downfield.  That was the single most amazing QB play I've ever seen with so much on the line.  Its easily fogotten about because they came up 1 yd. short.
interesting point. For all those voting 'no'...Say that Dyson gets in the end zone, the Titans win in OT, and McNair is named MVP....does that change your vote?
Well, he didn't get in the endzone so it's a moot point. But hypothetically speaking, one SB title with his career stats would still not put him on the HOF radar. :no:
How many black quarterbacks in the HOF?

Believe it or not, when he becomes eligible for election, someone (probably Jesse Jackson) will raise it. And it will impact some votes.
I don't think the color of his skin is going to be an issue, particularly given the proliferation of black QBs in this era.
 
For comparison:  Brad Johnson

                                  Pass                                        Rush

            G |  Comp  Att  PCT    YD  Y/A  TD INT  |  Att  Yards  TD |

Mcnair  142 |  2305  3871  59.5 27141  7.0 156 102 |  612  3451  36 |

Johnsn  130 |  2349  3797  61.9 25798  6.8 155 102 |  240  581  7 |

Both are also two-time pro-bowlers and both have been to the Superbowl.  Johnson won and McNair lost.  Johnson has more top ten seasonal rankings.  McNair has rushed for more and has an MVP.  They're both fringe Top 40 all time stats.  Bottom line is that I wouldn't consider either one to have had a HOF type career.  Both very solid, above average QBs.
Good stuff. I don't think anyone would even dream that Brad Johnson is a HOF QB, and his numbers (other than rushing) are nearly identical to McNair's.
I wouldn't write off McNair's rushing numbers. I think that puts him in a different class than Brad Johnson. That said McNair is not a Hall of Famer. He doesn't have either the championships or the career totals you'd expect from a Hall of Famer (of his era). He's been a great competitor and an accurate passer despite less-than-stellar receivers but I don't think it's enough. He's still active and has a chance to help himself further but he's 33, has an injury history, and he's playing on a bad team.AP's Non Hall of Fame QB NFL MVP Selections (for HOF-eligible QB's):

1959 Conerly

1968 Morrall

1969 Gabriel

1970 Brodie

1974 Stabler

1976 Bert Jones

1980 Sipe

1981 Ken Anderson

1983 Theismann

1988 Esiason

Anderson is the best candidate on that list IMO. Gannon (2002) and Warner (1999, 2001) won't be picked when they do become eligible.

If you count every organization that selects MVP's then add Frankie Albert, Meredith, Jaworski, Phil Simms, and Cunningham to the above list.

 
McNair's career is about the effort and two plays epitomize his career:

1. The last drive of the SB where McNair escapes two certain sackers with his unique combination of power and elusiveness, and hits the open receiver downfield is the best of McNair throughout his career (think his multi-TD game in Jacksonville to get to the SB, a great, individual performance in a big game that is rarely discussed). It is the quality of the plays and the situations in which McNair earned his stats that differ from many of the players statistically comparable to him.

2. The last play of the SB where McNair comes up just short of the glory. He was just shy of some big moments several times in his career. He often didn't get the help he needed to see the desired results. Many of the things that happened (or didnt' happen) were plays where you couldn't fault the Titan's QB, but you can't award him the ultimate prize, either.

McNair has been a player that carried his football team on his shoulders in a way that is too subjective to justify a spot in the Hall of Fame. Unless McNair regains his health, has 2-3 MVP-quality seasons and wins a SB, his resume isn't even close to earning this accolade.

McNair's leadership, skill on 3rd down, and ability to play at a high level when hurt are legendary. But not all legends are Hall of Fame worthy. Some come up short despite a Hall of Fame effort. Steve McNair played with Hall of Fame effort, but didn't get Hall of Fame results.

 
McNair's career is about the effort and two plays epitomize his career:

1. The last drive of the SB where McNair escapes two certain sackers with his unique combination of power and elusiveness, and hits the open receiver downfield is the best of McNair throughout his career (think his multi-TD game in Jacksonville to get to the SB, a great, individual performance in a big game that is rarely discussed). It is the quality of the plays and the situations in which McNair earned his stats that differ from many of the players statistically comparable to him.

2. The last play of the SB where McNair comes up just short of the glory. He was just shy of some big moments several times in his career. He often didn't get the help he needed to see the desired results. Many of the things that happened (or didnt' happen) were plays where you couldn't fault the Titan's QB, but you can't award him the ultimate prize, either.

McNair has been a player that carried his football team on his shoulders in a way that is too subjective to justify a spot in the Hall of Fame. Unless McNair regains his health, has 2-3 MVP-quality seasons and wins a SB, his resume isn't even close to earning this accolade.

McNair's leadership, skill on 3rd down, and ability to play at a high level when hurt are legendary. But not all legends are Hall of Fame worthy. Some come up short despite a Hall of Fame effort. Steve McNair played with Hall of Fame effort, but didn't get Hall of Fame results.
I give you credit for being an obvious fan that can give a truthful answer.
 
How many black quarterbacks in the HOF?

Believe it or not, when he becomes eligible for election, someone (probably Jesse Jackson) will raise it. And it will impact some votes.
You don't think that's the only reason Moon got in, do you?
No, I don't. I think Moon was worthy of it. The only point I was making is that I think someone will raise the race card when McNair becomes eligible, and that it will impact some votes.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Just like the time someone played the race card when James Harris became eligible..oh wait it didn't happen with him.

I meant when Superbowl MVP Doug Williams became eligible..not him either?

Maybe it will happen when Randell Cunningham becomes eligible.

 
Just like the time someone played the race card when James Harris became eligible..oh wait it didn't happen with him.

I meant when Superbowl MVP Doug Williams became eligible..not him either?

Maybe it will happen when Randell Cunningham becomes eligible.
I don't think I see what you are saying here. Are you suggesting that these three merited serious consideration for the Hall but were overlooked because of their race? Or are you comparing McNair to three other black QBs that did not have any real hope of getting in? Or something entirely different?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Are there any football MVPs to not get into the Hall?
Most recently, Thurman Thomas in 1991 and Boomer Esiason in 1988. I assume that we are going with the AP selection here and no others.Edit to add: Mark Moseley in 1982, Ken Anderson in 1981, Brian Sipe in 1980, Bert Jones in 1976, and Larry Brown in 1972. I'm not interested in going back any further than that.
Wow, I'm surprised that theres so many. I wonder why theres so many more MVPs who don't make the HOF in football than in any other sport.
 
For comparison:  Brad Johnson

                                   Pass                                        Rush

             G |  Comp   Att   PCT    YD   Y/A  TD INT   |  Att  Yards  TD |

Mcnair  142 |  2305  3871  59.5 27141   7.0 156 102 |   612  3451  36 |

Johnsn  130 |  2349  3797  61.9 25798   6.8 155 102 |   240   581   7 |

Both are also two-time pro-bowlers and both have been to the Superbowl.  Johnson won and McNair lost.  Johnson has more top ten seasonal rankings.  McNair has rushed for more and has an MVP.  They're both fringe Top 40 all time stats.  Bottom line is that I wouldn't consider either one to have had a HOF type career.  Both very solid, above average QBs.
Good stuff. I don't think anyone would even dream that Brad Johnson is a HOF QB, and his numbers (other than rushing) are nearly identical to McNair's.
I wouldn't write off McNair's rushing numbers. I think that puts him in a different class than Brad Johnson. That said McNair is not a Hall of Famer. He doesn't have either the championships or the career totals you'd expect from a Hall of Famer (of his era). He's been a great competitor and an accurate passer despite less-than-stellar receivers but I don't think it's enough. He's still active and has a chance to help himself further but he's 33, has an injury history, and he's playing on a bad team.AP's Non Hall of Fame QB NFL MVP Selections (for HOF-eligible QB's):

1959 Conerly

1968 Morrall

1969 Gabriel

1970 Brodie

1974 Stabler

1976 Bert Jones

1980 Sipe

1981 Ken Anderson

1983 Theismann

1988 Esiason

Anderson is the best candidate on that list IMO. Gannon (2002) and Warner (1999, 2001) won't be picked when they do become eligible.

If you count every organization that selects MVP's then add Frankie Albert, Meredith, Jaworski, Phil Simms, and Cunningham to the above list.
I have to admit that I started this thread thinking that an MVP is pretty much a surefire HOF ticket....I stand corrected.
 
Are there any football MVPs to not get into the Hall?
Most recently, Thurman Thomas in 1991 and Boomer Esiason in 1988. I assume that we are going with the AP selection here and no others.Edit to add: Mark Moseley in 1982, Ken Anderson in 1981, Brian Sipe in 1980, Bert Jones in 1976, and Larry Brown in 1972. I'm not interested in going back any further than that.
Wow, I'm surprised that theres so many. I wonder why theres so many more MVPs who don't make the HOF in football than in any other sport.
1) Because the Pro Football HOF really isn't that easy to get into, particularly for non QBs2) I'm not sure your contention is exactly right...haven't plenty of baseball MVPs failed to get inducted and they'll let anyone in :D

Just taking a quick look at the NL MVPs in baseball dating back to 1970 [who are no longer playing], quite a few haven't been inducted into the Hall:

Joe Torre
Pete Rose
Steve Garvey
Dave Parker
Keith Hernandez
Dale Murphy
Willie McGee
Andre Dawson
Kirk Gibson
Kevin Mitchell
Terry Pendleton
Ken Caminiti
 
AL MVPs not inducted into the Hall [since 1970]...

Vida Blue
**** Allen
Jeff Burroughs
Fred Lynn
Thurman Munson
Jim Rice
Don Baylor
Willie Hernandez
Don Mattingly
George Bell
Jose Canseco
Mo Vaughn** NOTE: I omitted Cal Ripken and Rickey Henderson from this list because they're mortal locks for induction when eligible.

 
IIRC, other baseball MVPs off the top of my head not iducted were Gerorge Foster, Dave Parekr, Boog Powell, Denny McLain, Roger Maris, the list goes on and on . . .

 
Thurman Thomas gets in before he ever would. Though they are not comparable by position you can ask yourself what they did for that position. Thurman was consistantly good.... My take

 
Additionally, I think part of the HOF equation (pretty much all sports) is high performance over a long career. I don't know if McNair has enough "stellar" NFL years under his belt to warrant HOF consideration. If he stays healthy and plays in the NFL for a few more years, makes 2-3 more pro-bowls then he probably would be worthy. The "longevity" factor is why Kurt Warner currently isn't HOF worthy. He had 2 MVP seasons and a couple of "QB-journeyman" years. That's not quite enough to cut it yet.

 
My 2 cents:

HOF QBs of this era- Favre, Brady, Manning

Not Quite- McNair, McNabb, Warner
I'm not sure McNair, McNabb or Warner even deserve the "not quite", at least not yet. McNabb doesn't have gaudy numbers, an MVP or a SB ring. Sure he's got a great career winning percentage and has been to 5 Pro Bowls, but that's in no way enough. He needs plenty of help. Warner has two MVPs and would be the first NFL two-time MVP not inducted, but he really needs a healthy, Pro Bowl caliber three or four year run in Arizona to get into the "fringe" department, in my view.
 
Just like the time someone played the race card when James Harris became eligible..oh wait it didn't happen with him.

I meant when Superbowl MVP Doug Williams became eligible..not him either?

Maybe it will happen when Randell Cunningham becomes eligible.
I don't think I see what you are saying here. Are you suggesting that these three merited serious consideration for the Hall but were overlooked because of their race? Or are you comparing McNair to three other black QBs that did not have any real hope of getting in? Or something entirely different?
It’s the bolded part.Most people don’t see McNair as a HOFer (about 80% in this poll don’t).

None of the other guys I listed were HOFer’s and there was no Jessie Jackson protest on their part. I don’t see why McNair would cause one.

 
Most people don’t see McNair as a HOFer (about 80% in this poll don’t).

None of the other guys I listed were HOFer’s and there was no Jessie Jackson protest on their part. I don’t see why McNair would cause one.
I don't disagree with you that McNair isn't getting in, but certainly he's closer than Harris (who never started an entire season, only made it to one pro bowl, and never seriously contended for a major statistical category at any point in his career), Cunningham, and D. Williams.
 
Most people don’t see McNair as a HOFer (about 80% in this poll don’t).

None of the other guys I listed were HOFer’s and there was no Jessie Jackson protest on their part. I don’t see why McNair would cause one.
I don't disagree with you that McNair isn't getting in, but certainly he's closer than Harris (who never started an entire season, only made it to one pro bowl, and never seriously contended for a major statistical category at any point in his career), Cunningham, and D. Williams.
I don't know why you think McNair would be more of a HOF candidate than Cunningham.Cunningham is a 2-time NFL MVP [McNair is a 1-time Co MVP], and ranks higher among the all-time passing marks.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top