Super Bowl LVII ****Kansas City vs Philadelphia**** KC 38...PHI 35 Chiefs are World Champions!!! (1 Viewer)

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Drywall contractors in Philly gonna have a good week….

 

[ProstheticRGK]

Plus, you guys have gotten into deep geek territory, like you're analyzing the Zapruder film. It was a hold. Bradberry said it was a hold. It was a shame that it was called. Next...

 

[Insein]

honest question to those in philly how did things hold up last night i hope that nothing stupid happened with breaking stuff etc i hope that all is well and congrats to philly on a great season i see you being even better next year god help the rest of us in the nfc take that to the bank brohans

It's Philly. You wouldn't be able to tell.

plenty of videos on tic toc showing police in riot gear having to clear crowds

Normal Sunday night then

 

[ChiefD]

I know it's officially the off season now, and that this is a fantasy football geek site for us nerds who like to hyper analyze everything, but can somebody in the NFL have a personal scandal, or something soon, please? I am officially over "phantom hold gate", and would like to hear about anything else.

Where did Andy get his celebratory burger from? What was Pat's wait like at Space Mountain? Did Willie Gay get teased a lot in High School for his last name? Did that make him stronger?

That play the Chiefs used to get Toney and Skyy Moore so wide open was called "Corn Dog" in the playbook.

 

[ProstheticRGK]

Drywall contractors in Philly gonna have a good week….

I'm in CA, and I do my own drywall repairs.

 

[IHEARTFF]

I know it's officially the off season now, and that this is a fantasy football geek site for us nerds who like to hyper analyze everything, but can somebody in the NFL have a personal scandal, or something soon, please? I am officially over "phantom hold gate", and would like to hear about anything else.

Where did Andy get his celebratory burger from? What was Pat's wait like at Space Mountain? Did Willie Gay get teased a lot in High School for his last name? Did that make him stronger?

That play the Chiefs used to get Toney and Skyy Moore so wide open was called "Corn Dog" in the playbook.

those fake jet sweeps were brilliant
they definitely dipped the CBs in ketchup and mustard on those

 

[sho nuff]

Was it a penalty? Sure, a ticky tack one. No one can realistically dispute that when Bradburry himself says he did it. The problem is that it went on during just about every play and wasn't called the entire game UNTIL that play. It was the only holding call of the game... do people really think it was the only time anyone held? That's what makes it terrible to me. If they had set the tone that they'd have a tight whistle, fine. But it wasn't.

There's a reason JuJu didn't complain at ALL when the ball fell incomplete but went nuts earlier in the game when he knew he had been held on a crossing pattern. It was a slight tug on the jersey and some hand checking before that, but JuJu's momentum wasn't slowed down and the direction he was running wasn't impacted. Mahomes threw the ball towards the pile on and JuJu ran it farther inside... that's the reason it didn't look especially close at the end.

Chiefs fans will say it would've been an easy completion if not for the hold, but that's not what the video shows. It's convenient to think that though, and in the end it doesn't really matter.

As a football fan, it was a truly terrible way for such a great game to end. It doesn't feel like the players decided it.

Watch this video. It was not ticky tack. It’s a penalty. And not even a subtle penalty.

How Bradberry holding penalty changed final minutes

Mike Florio and Chris Simms explain why James Bradberry’s holding penalty was the right call and why it doesn’t matter that the ball was uncatchable, because it wasn’t pass interference.

www.nbcsports.com

Look, there are reputable people who look at the exact same video and have said otherwise, but I'm not going to post videosIt's not a debate worth having because what's done is done.

I never said it wasn't a penalty by the letter of the law. You can debate if it had an impact on him or not, but the pass doesn't have to be catchable on a holding call like it would have for DPI.

But, people act like without the hold, JuJu catches an easy TD and that's crazy. He wasn't running to where the ball was thrown at any point and Bradbury didn't grab him nearly in a way that changed his direction. If he had, JuJu would've gone nuts after the play. But, he gave NO reaction at all. None. Just turned and started walking back to the bench... that's not the reaction of a guy who felt like he'd be impeded.

And again... the BIGGEST point in all of this is that the inconsistency of holding not being called the ENTIRE game and then being called on THAT play is what drives most people crazy. If it wasn't called in the first 58 minutes, it shouldn't have been called then either.

I don't think many are acting that JuJu would catch up to the ball thrown for a TD. At least not that I have seen.
The point of the penalty is more...it affects him making the break and perhaps Mahomes then hits him coming out of his break quick before being rushed into throwing it to that open spot to throw it away as he did. The actual pass thrown does not necessarily mean its the pass that is made if he is not held and makes a clean cut/break on his pass route.

 

[sho nuff]

If you let them play for 58 minutes, you have to let them play for the last 2.

All I need to see now is a video complication of all of those alleged non-calls and I’ll be square on your side of this debate.

It’s a strong allegation - should be easy to prove if it went down as folks are asserting.

Well, its probably too early for that but here is the one that was Not called that was mentioned earlier. This seems more egregious than the contact made on the 3rd down play-he pulls his arm and twists his body as the ball is getting to him. There were others that I recall on both teams-nothing insane, just some contact. And to be clear that is fine-I prefer to let them play. I thought they called a good game for most of the game, just dropped the ball at the end. You're free to disagree.

Sure...though, angle of the refs and what they see may be the difference.
In the one called...even if it does not appear in slow motion or whatever to be big...to a ref standing away from it at the right angle, he sees a jersey tugged and again sees him reach to grab his arm the 2nd time. That is why camera shots and different angles and still shots don't tell the full story. The angle from the players to the ref and what may or may not have been obstructing their view is the relevant information...and we don't really have that.

 

[Godsbrother]

It was a hold, plain and simple. There is not a sport where officiating is 100% consistent, never has been and never will be. It seems really odd for people to be blaming the refs for calling a legitimate hold.

I thought it was a pretty entertaining game and in no way was ruined by the PI call. Philly had opportunities to win the game and just came up a little short. Tough loss for the Eagles and a great win for the Chiefs. There is no crying in football, move on.

 

[ProstheticRGK]

I know it's officially the off season now, and that this is a fantasy football geek site for us nerds who like to hyper analyze everything, but can somebody in the NFL have a personal scandal, or something soon, please? I am officially over "phantom hold gate", and would like to hear about anything else.

Where did Andy get his celebratory burger from? What was Pat's wait like at Space Mountain? Did Willie Gay get teased a lot in High School for his last name? Did that make him stronger?

That play the Chiefs used to get Toney and Skyy Moore so wide open was called "Corn Dog" in the playbook.

I always hated corn dogs. Seriously, now I hate them even more. That is some good shtuff, though.

 

[butcher boy]

That call was what it was. The earlier hold on Jenkins was more of an issue. You don't win that game with the playcalling the way it was on the Philly side. Goeddert was good, but more 2 TE sets would have surprised the Chiefs a bit more.

 

[efactor]

But anyone that can look at JuJu's stride and direction and think anything Bradbury did had an impact on it isn't paying attention. JuJu ran to the wrong spot and slowed down when he had to look back over his shoulder and adjust at the end.

I was paying rapt attention, thanks.

It’s obvious that Juju was beating Bradberry, and Bradberry grabbed his jersey, which stretched & slowed down Juju’s break for the play.

It very obviously impeded his motion. Cmon.

No, it actually wasn't obvious at all

It’s totally obvious. Again, watch this breakdown, which shows the appropriate angles:

How Bradberry holding penalty changed final minutes

Mike Florio and Chris Simms explain why James Bradberry’s holding penalty was the right call and why it doesn’t matter that the ball was uncatchable, because it wasn’t pass interference.

www.nbcsports.com

Watched it from every angle. Not a hold. BS penalty

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Watched it from every angle. Not a hold. BS penalty

Not according to the history books.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

At least everyone here is more calm and rational about it than this dude.

 

[amnesiac]

At least everyone here is more calm and rational about it than this dude.

at least that dude didn't have to watch the pathetic attempt at a hail mary to end the game.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

At least everyone here is more calm and rational about it than this dude.

LOL, I hope that was his own TV. Cool hardwood floor though.

 

[rockaction]

At least everyone here is more calm and rational about it than this dude.

That wouldn't be the way I'd want to be remembered by friends and acquaintances. I found that to be sad.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

At least everyone here is more calm and rational about it than this dude.

That wouldn't be the way I'd want to be remembered by friends and acquaintances. I found that to be sad.

Same. “ how not to get invited back to a Super Bowl party”

 

[efactor]

Watched it from every angle. Not a hold. BS penalty

Not according to the history books.

History books are often full of false narratives and even outright lies

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Watched it from every angle. Not a hold. BS penalty

Not according to the history books.

History books are often full of false narratives and even outright lies

Fortunately this one has video evidence.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

At least everyone here is more calm and rational about it than this dude.

at least that dude didn't have to watch the pathetic attempt at a hail mary to end the game.

I feel like not enough people are talking about that 40 yard wobbly duck. Is that really the farthest Hurts can throw?

 

[efactor]

Watched it from every angle. Not a hold. BS penalty

Not according to the history books.

History books are often full of false narratives and even outright lies

Fortunately this one has video evidence.

Video evidence that no flag should have been thrown, which will make the history that there was a legit penalty a false narrative

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Watched it from every angle. Not a hold. BS penalty

Not according to the history books.

History books are often full of false narratives and even outright lies

Fortunately this one has video evidence.

Video evidence that no flag should have been thrown, which will make the history that there was a legit penalty a false narrative

Clearly this is a hill you are going to die on, so I’ll leave you to it.

 

[identikit]

If you let them play for 58 minutes, you have to let them play for the last 2.

All I need to see now is a video complication of all of those alleged non-calls and I’ll be square on your side of this debate.

It’s a strong allegation - should be easy to prove if it went down as folks are asserting.

Well, its probably too early for that but here is the one that was Not called that was mentioned earlier. This seems more egregious than the contact made on the 3rd down play-he pulls his arm and twists his body as the ball is getting to him. There were others that I recall on both teams-nothing insane, just some contact. And to be clear that is fine-I prefer to let them play. I thought they called a good game for most of the game, just dropped the ball at the end. You're free to disagree.

Looks like that non-call was at the Philly 25 yard line.

Quite possibly could have ended up with at touchdown on that drive.

See how that works when you pick out one play among many, many others?

 

[Amused to Death]

I feel like not enough people are talking about that 40 yard wobbly duck. Is that really the farthest Hurts can throw?

He stepped on Kelce's foot during the release.

 

[efactor]

Watched it from every angle. Not a hold. BS penalty

Not according to the history books.

History books are often full of false narratives and even outright lies

Fortunately this one has video evidence.

Video evidence that no flag should have been thrown, which will make the history that there was a legit penalty a false narrative

Clearly this is a hill you are going to die on, so I’ll leave you to it.

I didn't really care who won, although I find Mahomes family intolerable so was rooting for the Eagles. I just hated to see that penalty called there because I firmly believe that only Mahomes or Brady led teams would have had gotten the flag there. The NFL has their poster boys and Mahomes is the current one now that Brady is gone.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I feel like not enough people are talking about that 40 yard wobbly duck. Is that really the farthest Hurts can throw?

He stepped on Kelce's foot during the release.

Ah - that explains it - thanks, it was perplexing.

Watching that, it’s bizarre that even happened - there was no pass rush and he had a huge pocket to work with.

 

[Zow]

At least everyone here is more calm and rational about it than this dude.

at least that dude didn't have to watch the pathetic attempt at a hail mary to end the game.

I feel like not enough people are talking about that 40 yard wobbly duck. Is that really the farthest Hurts can throw?

I believe he said he slipped on the throw.

 

[Da Guru]

But anyone that can look at JuJu's stride and direction and think anything Bradbury did had an impact on it isn't paying attention. JuJu ran to the wrong spot and slowed down when he had to look back over his shoulder and adjust at the end.

I was paying rapt attention, thanks.

It’s obvious that Juju was beating Bradberry, and Bradberry grabbed his jersey, which stretched & slowed down Juju’s break for the play.

It very obviously impeded his motion. Cmon.

No, it actually wasn't obvious at all

It’s totally obvious. Again, watch this breakdown, which shows the appropriate angles:

How Bradberry holding penalty changed final minutes

Mike Florio and Chris Simms explain why James Bradberry’s holding penalty was the right call and why it doesn’t matter that the ball was uncatchable, because it wasn’t pass interference.

www.nbcsports.com

It may be the correct call. But On almost every passing play one DB is grabbing a jersey, seems like it is part of the game now. I agree with them when they say call it the same way all the time so the players know. If you are letting it go early then let it go late or vice versa. It is the same way on college too.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I believe he said he slipped on the throw.

See above - apparently he stepped on Kelce’s foot. Which is weird since he had a ton of space to work with. Flukey.

 

[GoBirds]

But anyone that can look at JuJu's stride and direction and think anything Bradbury did had an impact on it isn't paying attention. JuJu ran to the wrong spot and slowed down when he had to look back over his shoulder and adjust at the end.

I was paying rapt attention, thanks.

It’s obvious that Juju was beating Bradberry, and Bradberry grabbed his jersey, which stretched & slowed down Juju’s break for the play.

It very obviously impeded his motion. Cmon.

No, it actually wasn't obvious at all

It’s totally obvious. Again, watch this breakdown, which shows the appropriate angles:

How Bradberry holding penalty changed final minutes

Mike Florio and Chris Simms explain why James Bradberry’s holding penalty was the right call and why it doesn’t matter that the ball was uncatchable, because it wasn’t pass interference.

www.nbcsports.com

It may be the correct call. But On almost every passing play one DB is grabbing a jersey, seems like it is part of the game now. I agree with them when they say call it the same way all the time so the players know. If you are letting it go early then let it go late or vice versa. It is the same way on college too.

You are right .

 

[Chaz McNulty]

At least everyone here is more calm and rational about it than this dude.

at least that dude didn't have to watch the pathetic attempt at a hail mary to end the game.

I feel like not enough people are talking about that 40 yard wobbly duck. Is that really the farthest Hurts can throw?

I believe he said he slipped on the throw.

It goes atleast 45 yards if he doesn't slip. But I think that may be his limit.

 

[rockaction]

Hurts has a decent arm. He can throw the ball fifty yards. I thought he slipped at first glance because so many others had slipped during the game, but I guess he stepped on Kelce.

 

[Zow]

At least everyone here is more calm and rational about it than this dude.

at least that dude didn't have to watch the pathetic attempt at a hail mary to end the game.

I feel like not enough people are talking about that 40 yard wobbly duck. Is that really the farthest Hurts can throw?

I believe he said he slipped on the throw.

It goes atleast 45 yards if he doesn't slip. But I think that may be his limit.

Wasn't his bomb to Brown at least that?

 

[Tau837]

If you let them play for 58 minutes, you have to let them play for the last 2.

All I need to see now is a video complication of all of those alleged non-calls and I’ll be square on your side of this debate.

It’s a strong allegation - should be easy to prove if it went down as folks are asserting.

Well, its probably too early for that but here is the one that was Not called that was mentioned earlier. This seems more egregious than the contact made on the 3rd down play-he pulls his arm and twists his body as the ball is getting to him. There were others that I recall on both teams-nothing insane, just some contact. And to be clear that is fine-I prefer to let them play. I thought they called a good game for most of the game, just dropped the ball at the end. You're free to disagree.

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I fully expect that the Chiefs coaches and players blasted the ref(s) for not calling that. Which could have resulted in the ref that made the final call being specifically more attuned to watching for it on that final call.

Also, the fact that they didn't call it on that previous play is not a good thing. That killed a KC drive. It was a BS non-call. Using that as an attempted justification that the final call shouldn't have been made doesn't make sense, since it amounts to an obvious missed call.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

If you let them play for 58 minutes, you have to let them play for the last 2.

All I need to see now is a video complication of all of those alleged non-calls and I’ll be square on your side of this debate.

It’s a strong allegation - should be easy to prove if it went down as folks are asserting.

Well, its probably too early for that but here is the one that was Not called that was mentioned earlier. This seems more egregious than the contact made on the 3rd down play-he pulls his arm and twists his body as the ball is getting to him. There were others that I recall on both teams-nothing insane, just some contact. And to be clear that is fine-I prefer to let them play. I thought they called a good game for most of the game, just dropped the ball at the end. You're free to disagree.

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I fully expect that the Chiefs coaches and players blasted the ref(s) for not calling that. Which could have resulted in the ref that made the final call being specifically more attuned to watching for it on that final call.

Also, the fact that they didn't call it on that previous play is not a good thing. That killed a KC drive. It was a BS non-call. Using that as an attempted justification that the final call shouldn't have been made doesn't make sense, since it amounts to an obvious missed call.

This is exactly right. I am sure when the ref's go over the game, this play will not go down as 'letting them play', but more as an obvious mistake that should be caught 100 out of 100 times. That play was a big wiff by the refs.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If you let them play for 58 minutes, you have to let them play for the last 2.

All I need to see now is a video complication of all of those alleged non-calls and I’ll be square on your side of this debate.

It’s a strong allegation - should be easy to prove if it went down as folks are asserting.

Well, its probably too early for that but here is the one that was Not called that was mentioned earlier. This seems more egregious than the contact made on the 3rd down play-he pulls his arm and twists his body as the ball is getting to him. There were others that I recall on both teams-nothing insane, just some contact. And to be clear that is fine-I prefer to let them play. I thought they called a good game for most of the game, just dropped the ball at the end. You're free to disagree.

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I fully expect that the Chiefs coaches and players blasted the ref(s) for not calling that. Which could have resulted in the ref that made the final call being specifically more attuned to watching for it on that final call.

Also, the fact that they didn't call it on that previous play is not a good thing. That killed a KC drive. It was a BS non-call. Using that as an attempted justification that the final call shouldn't have been made doesn't make sense, since it amounts to an obvious missed call.

Agree with this.

Like I said a few posts back - every play is its own thing. Refs make dozens of judgement calls a game.

Missing one call doesn’t mean they should miss another to be “consistent”. It means they should work extra hard to not miss another one.

 

[Steelers4Life]

It's textbook holding as JuJu is coming out of his break. It wasn't called, and JuJu freaked out after the play because he knew it was. It was a more blatant and impactful tug than what happened late.

The link you shared literally calls it a “missed DPI”

It’s not remotely holding.

My bad... if the ball was already in the air, call it DPI. If not, it was holding.

EIther way, it was another physical play by a DB on the WR who was targeted and in plain sight of anyone watching the play. That could've been a penalty but was permitted because up until the final 2 minutes, they were letting them play with a very loose whistle. Guys were making or not making plays, and that was deciding the game. Football fans deserved them to continue that for the entire game.

I don't know who was assigned to watch the non-DPI call on Juju - I fell like it was 50-50, obviously others disagree. All that really matters is what the officials saw. And ok, I have no hill to die on - let's say they blew that DPI. That doesn't mean the officials let everything go "up until the last 2 mins" and then tighten up. That's a narrative, and IMO a very difficult one to prove. Further, it's a narrative that asserts some sort of cumulative effect of penalties rather than each being called in the moment.

If you let them play for 58 minutes, you have to let them play for the last 2.

All I need to see now is a video complication of all of those alleged non-calls and I’ll be square on your side of this debate.

It’s a strong allegation - should be easy to prove if it went down as folks are asserting.

Well, its probably too early for that but here is the one that was Not called that was mentioned earlier. This seems more egregious than the contact made on the 3rd down play-he pulls his arm and twists his body as the ball is getting to him. There were others that I recall on both teams-nothing insane, just some contact. And to be clear that is fine-I prefer to let them play. I thought they called a good game for most of the game, just dropped the ball at the end. You're free to disagree.

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I fully expect that the Chiefs coaches and players blasted the ref(s) for not calling that. Which could have resulted in the ref that made the final call being specifically more attuned to watching for it on that final call.

Also, the fact that they didn't call it on that previous play is not a good thing. That killed a KC drive. It was a BS non-call. Using that as an attempted justification that the final call shouldn't have been made doesn't make sense, since it amounts to an obvious missed call.

This is exactly right. I am sure when the ref's go over the game, this play will not go down as 'letting them play', but more as an obvious mistake that should be caught 100 out of 100 times. That play was a big wiff by the refs.

100% agree. All calls are made individually, but you can normally tell early and often if officials are erring towards calling a penalty vs letting them play.

No one argues that he didn't hold, but some argue about how much impact it had. The jersey moved but Juju didn't even feel enough to complain after the play. But, over the course of the game, they saw a total of zero plays worthy of a holding penalty and only one worthy of a pass interference flag - on a wide receiver. If you want to argue that they both played clean all game and nothing was missed, fine. I've been watching football way too long to believe that. Instead, it looks to any fan of the NFL like they weren't calling a tight game and they were letting a lot of grabbing and contact side.

Until the final two minutes, at least.

I understand that a penalty is a penalty. But if they were going to call what looked to a LOT of people like a very ticky tack penalty at such a crucial moment, they should've been calling it that way for the previous 58 minutes.

 

[Da Guru]

If you let them play for 58 minutes, you have to let them play for the last 2.

All I need to see now is a video complication of all of those alleged non-calls and I’ll be square on your side of this debate.

It’s a strong allegation - should be easy to prove if it went down as folks are asserting.

Well, its probably too early for that but here is the one that was Not called that was mentioned earlier. This seems more egregious than the contact made on the 3rd down play-he pulls his arm and twists his body as the ball is getting to him. There were others that I recall on both teams-nothing insane, just some contact. And to be clear that is fine-I prefer to let them play. I thought they called a good game for most of the game, just dropped the ball at the end. You're free to disagree.

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I fully expect that the Chiefs coaches and players blasted the ref(s) for not calling that. Which could have resulted in the ref that made the final call being specifically more attuned to watching for it on that final call.

Also, the fact that they didn't call it on that previous play is not a good thing. That killed a KC drive. It was a BS non-call. Using that as an attempted justification that the final call shouldn't have been made doesn't make sense, since it amounts to an obvious missed call.

This is exactly right. I am sure when the ref's go over the game, this play will not go down as 'letting them play', but more as an obvious mistake that should be caught 100 out of 100 times. That play was a big wiff by the refs.

.It was.

I would venture to say the refs could probably call offensive or defensive holding or PI on 75% or more of the plays. They do a good job for the most part. Should they review plays for possible penalties? If so there would be 20 more reviews a game because the coaches would probably be correct.

 

[Steelers4Life]

If you let them play for 58 minutes, you have to let them play for the last 2.

All I need to see now is a video complication of all of those alleged non-calls and I’ll be square on your side of this debate.

It’s a strong allegation - should be easy to prove if it went down as folks are asserting.

Well, its probably too early for that but here is the one that was Not called that was mentioned earlier. This seems more egregious than the contact made on the 3rd down play-he pulls his arm and twists his body as the ball is getting to him. There were others that I recall on both teams-nothing insane, just some contact. And to be clear that is fine-I prefer to let them play. I thought they called a good game for most of the game, just dropped the ball at the end. You're free to disagree.

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I fully expect that the Chiefs coaches and players blasted the ref(s) for not calling that. Which could have resulted in the ref that made the final call being specifically more attuned to watching for it on that final call.

Also, the fact that they didn't call it on that previous play is not a good thing. That killed a KC drive. It was a BS non-call. Using that as an attempted justification that the final call shouldn't have been made doesn't make sense, since it amounts to an obvious missed call.

This is exactly right. I am sure when the ref's go over the game, this play will not go down as 'letting them play', but more as an obvious mistake that should be caught 100 out of 100 times. That play was a big wiff by the refs.

.It was.

I would venture to say the refs could probably call offensive or defensive holding or PI on 75% or more of the plays. They do a good job for the most part. Should they review plays for possible penalties? If so there would be 20 more reviews a game because the coaches would probably be correct.

And that's the point exactly. If the refs could call OPI, DPI, or holding on 75% of the plays as you say, ask yourself why they made 0 holding calls, 0 DPI calls, and 1 OPI call in the entire game before that play. It wasn't an isolated miss. It was an approach to not call grabbing and stuff that regularly happens on every play.

They changed the approach they had taken for 58 minutes and made a call that ended the Super Bowl. Disappointing, but whatever.

 

[unckeyherb]

If you let them play for 58 minutes, you have to let them play for the last 2.

All I need to see now is a video complication of all of those alleged non-calls and I’ll be square on your side of this debate.

It’s a strong allegation - should be easy to prove if it went down as folks are asserting.

Well, its probably too early for that but here is the one that was Not called that was mentioned earlier. This seems more egregious than the contact made on the 3rd down play-he pulls his arm and twists his body as the ball is getting to him. There were others that I recall on both teams-nothing insane, just some contact. And to be clear that is fine-I prefer to let them play. I thought they called a good game for most of the game, just dropped the ball at the end. You're free to disagree.

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I fully expect that the Chiefs coaches and players blasted the ref(s) for not calling that. Which could have resulted in the ref that made the final call being specifically more attuned to watching for it on that final call.

Also, the fact that they didn't call it on that previous play is not a good thing. That killed a KC drive. It was a BS non-call. Using that as an attempted justification that the final call shouldn't have been made doesn't make sense, since it amounts to an obvious missed call.

This is exactly right. I am sure when the ref's go over the game, this play will not go down as 'letting them play', but more as an obvious mistake that should be caught 100 out of 100 times. That play was a big wiff by the refs.

.It was.

I would venture to say the refs could probably call offensive or defensive holding or PI on 75% or more of the plays. They do a good job for the most part. Should they review plays for possible penalties? If so there would be 20 more reviews a game because the coaches would probably be correct.

And that's the point exactly. If the refs could call OPI, DPI, or holding on 75% of the plays as you say, ask yourself why they made 0 holding calls, 0 DPI calls, and 1 OPI call in the entire game before that play. It wasn't an isolated miss. It was an approach to not call grabbing and stuff that regularly happens on every play.

They changed the approach they had taken for 58 minutes and made a call that ended the Super Bowl. Disappointing, but whatever.

This is how I see it too.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

At least everyone here is more calm and rational about it than this dude.

That wouldn't be the way I'd want to be remembered by friends and acquaintances. I found that to be sad.

Same. “ how not to get invited back to a Super Bowl party”

He may not make it to next years Super Bowl if he can’t pay off those bets.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

And that's the point exactly. If the refs could call OPI, DPI, or holding on 75% of the plays as you say, ask yourself why they made 0 holding calls, 0 DPI calls, and 1 OPI call in the entire game before that play. It wasn't an isolated miss. It was an approach to not call grabbing and stuff that regularly happens on every play.

They changed the approach they had taken for 58 minutes and made a call that ended the Super Bowl. Disappointing, but whatever.

I think most teams average less that one defensive hold per game, so it is difficult to tell how tightly they are calling it. In fact, I think they average less than 1 defensive holding call per game between the 2 teams. So I am not sure how they establish what they are calling and what they are letting go on an individual game. I would think they would get the feel about what is allowed over the entire season.

Stats for 2022

Defensive Holding - 2022 - View by Teams

All defensive holding penalties that happened in the 2022 season, viewed by teams.

www.nflpenalties.com

 

[modogg]

Looks like the NFL has found the best way to beat a speed pass rush. 2.5 sacks away from all time sack leader for a team, hah, NFL will show you with pure ineptness:

A wild video showed exactly why the Eagles were so upset about the terrible Super Bowl 57 field

No wonder the Eagles are mad.

ftw.usatoday.com

 

[TwinTurbo]

The PI call was right even if it did seem heavy handed at the time. Regardless, the game was won/lost on those Corn Dog fake jet sweeps. Philly got fooled not once but twice. Also one question I had is could Bradberry have knocked McKinnon into the end zone before he slid on that final run? Defenses probably don't ever practice for that situation but instead of avoiding the tackle what if he carried him or knocked him forward into the end zone? Is that legal? Bradberry was close enough to do it.

 

[jhib]

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

Both teams had a drive eliminated by the officiating and the Chiefs drive was more egregious. It was just in the 1st half and they won, so hardly anyone is talking about it.

Some great/classic ending was all we were robbed of, but the call was a 60/40 call that gets made more often than not throughout the season.

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's the biggest game of their careers, so just like a player who may slightly miss a throw/catch/shot, etc. because they are too excited or caught up in the moment, a ref can miss a call because they are too excited. I'm sure in retrospect after watching film he wishes he'd let it go, but it was a justifiable penalty and he saw enough at the time to throw the flag. He likely asked the sideline official and back judge what they thought here, but if no one took him off it he had enough to stick with the call.

It's not egregious or a travesty, its just an unfortunate case of humanity in a game played and officiated by humans.

I think the thing that too many people forget is that the officials are part of the humanity of sports. They aren't a faceless robot with no skin in the game, but humans doing their very best (at least the majority of the time and certainly at this level). To err is human and all....

I get it, but honestly, they let them play all game long, setting a precedent for what is and isn't allowed. Again there were no flags thrown in the second half although that level of contact was happening all game. In the biggest moment, when a 3rd down conversion basically ends the game they decided to throw a towel at an EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play. These guys should have some situational awareness. FWIW, that was a late-*** flag too.

I'm not sure we can definitively say the bold. It probably had little to a marginal impact, but the guy was the intended target and he was held for a brief moment.

Take a look at the replay I just posted and tell me what effect there was.

There's a still photo of the play floating around social media that shows a handful of jersey with a pull. It can be seen by scrolling down here: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/...call-super-bowl-eagles-chiefs-james-bradberry

Anybody who has played a sport can probably acknowledge that even a slight jersey tug can disrupt your movement. Here, Smith Schuster is trying to break out to the left of the play and the defender clearly pulls him by the jersey at a 45 degree angle towards the opposite way.

That link has the combo of still frame showing the tug from one angle and video from another angle showing how the WR was affected (watch his left shoulder dip down/back as he's being tugged momentarily) that justifies the call for me, especially since the ref seemed to have a clear look and started throwing the flag right away without hesitation.

 

[jhib]

It's textbook holding as JuJu is coming out of his break. It wasn't called, and JuJu freaked out after the play because he knew it was. It was a more blatant and impactful tug than what happened late.

The link you shared literally calls it a “missed DPI”

It’s not remotely holding.

The funny thing is, I remember seeing another nearby WR on that same play obviously being held by the jersey as he ran down the field. Now I can't find a replay with that in view since the focus is on Bradberry/JuJu.
Still, I find it to be a weird argument that since Bradberry got away with one penalty earlier in the game he should have gotten away with another later on.

 

[Steelers4Life]

It's textbook holding as JuJu is coming out of his break. It wasn't called, and JuJu freaked out after the play because he knew it was. It was a more blatant and impactful tug than what happened late.

The link you shared literally calls it a “missed DPI”

It’s not remotely holding.

Still, I find it to be a weird argument that since Bradberry got away with one penalty earlier in the game he should have gotten away with another later on.

That's not the argument.

Its not about Bradberry getting away with it earlier. It's that everyone had gotten away with it the entire game unless you believe no one held or committed pass interference beforehand except for one WR. No defenders were called for holding and no offensive linemen were either. And then, on one play, they decided to call it.

Then again, maybe everyone on both teams played a perfectfly clean game for 58 minutes lol.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The PI call was right even if it did seem heavy handed at the time. Regardless, the game was won/lost on those Corn Dog fake jet sweeps. Philly got fooled not once but twice. Also one question I had is could Bradberry have knocked McKinnon into the end zone before he slid on that final run? Defenses probably don't ever practice for that situation but instead of avoiding the tackle what if he carried him or knocked him forward into the end zone? Is that legal? Bradberry was close enough to do it.

We were talking about that in the game topic.

I was saying they shoulda let the chiefs score, and the very next play McKinnon smartly fell down.

A few asked if they Eagles defenders could have tackled him into the end zone for the TD.

I believe the answer is that they could have tackled him across the line but they can’t pull him across

 

[TwinTurbo]

The PI call was right even if it did seem heavy handed at the time. Regardless, the game was won/lost on those Corn Dog fake jet sweeps. Philly got fooled not once but twice. Also one question I had is could Bradberry have knocked McKinnon into the end zone before he slid on that final run? Defenses probably don't ever practice for that situation but instead of avoiding the tackle what if he carried him or knocked him forward into the end zone? Is that legal? Bradberry was close enough to do it.

We were talking about that in the game topic.

I was saying they shoulda let the chiefs score, and the very next play McKinnon smartly fell down.

A few asked if they Eagles defenders could have tackled him into the end zone for the TD.

I believe the answer is that they could have tackled him across the line but they can’t pull him across

Yes understood a defender can't pull him across but it seems like it might have been possible for #24 Bradberry to push or tackle him across the goal line. McKinnon made it close.
Video: https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1624968822963982337?s=20&t=5FPU5EEp8IkBcPHfrHzBQA