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T.O at #30 overall deserves a serious lashing (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GATZ
- Start date
FBGs, take note . . . I know we're not supposed to talk rankings from the pay section here, but T.O at #30 overall deserves a serious lashing . . . in a public forum. Fo' Shizzle.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I don't think the reward is worth the risk with the 30th pick. That's 3.06, which only presents value in PPR leagues.
I don't think the reward is worth the risk with the 30th pick. That's 3.06, which only presents value in PPR leagues.
I don't know what relevance you think a PPR league has that's somehow particularly negative for TO, or how you're defining value . . . but WR #8, after the likes of players like Joe Horn and Andre Johnson is freakin ridiculous. You smoking crack, brotha. Wish Vegas would offer me that one.
I don't know what relevance you think a PPR league has that's somehow particularly negative for TO, or how you're defining value . . . but WR #8, after the likes of players like Joe Horn and Andre Johnson is freakin ridiculous. You smoking crack, brotha. Wish Vegas would offer me that one.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I don't know what relevance you think a PPR league has that's somehow particularly negative for TO, or how you're defining value . . . but WR #8, after the likes of players like Joe Horn and Andre Johnson is freakin ridiculous. You smoking crack, brotha. Wish Vegas would offer me that one.
I'm saying the opposite actually. In a regular league I doubt I'd grab Owens at 3.06. In a point per reception league, I'd be much more likely. But there aren't any 12 team leagues where I'd take him with a second round pick.
T
trader jake
Guest
i offered joe horn for TO and was turned down...i'm thinking most TO owners would have done the same thing
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Wide receivers overall have more value in PPR leagues. So maybe I'll only have 4 WRs in my top 30 regularly, but 7 in my top 30 in PPR leagues.
Tick
Footballguy
9 7 9 14 33 2 2 12 4Horn's and Owens's ranks at the end of hte past five years. Close enough to call them fairly similar. Given the lack of any significant change for Horn and the offseason distractions for Owens, I don't think it's unreasonable to put Horn in front of Owens. Sure, his ceiling is probably lower, but his floor is probably higher.Personally, I have them Moss-Holt-CJohnson-Harrison-Horn-Owens-Walker... then a huge dropoff. The order in that tier can change, but I don't have a problem with anyone mixing those seven guys around.
which rankings are we talking about here?
he's currently listed at #23 overall in the Real Time Staff consensus rankings
Raiders Fan
The Black Hole
I wouldn't call last year close.. Owens missed the last 2 1/2 games.. Thats the ONLY reason they were. I am sorry but putting Horn in the class of Owens is totally silly.. Last year was hurt at end or he would have been #1.. As you admit there is a HIGE drop off. So comparing 2-7 might be 50FP.. Take Horn.. I'll take Owens. Lets see who earns more?
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Nobody can dispute the upside that Owens has based on what he did last year. Clearly, Owens has a lot of risk as well given his unhappiness with his contract and current relationship with McNabb. It seems that there is a clear distinction made between people who are willing to tolerate that risk and people who aren't. More risk-averse drafters will avoid Owens for a safer player with slightly less upside. If you don't mind drafting a player who could wind up suspended a month into the season, then by all means draft Owens as a top-2 WR. That's probably where he would deserve to go if he was happy and healthy right now.Top 300he's currently listed at #23 overall in the Real Time Staff consensus rankings
but you are looking at one person's rankings in the top 300.the expert rankings show you a range of opinions...and most of us haven't dropped Owens that far.where would you rank Owens, among WRs and Overall?
Not clear that it's one person's rankings - seems to be the Official FBG most recent Top #300 by appearance. I have TO at WR#1 and #8 overall. 2d year with McNabb and 2d year in the system on a team coming off a Super Bowl appearance that once again looks very strong . . . favorite by most to win the NFC. Obviously, I'm assuming he plays 16 games. TO aint stupid . . . he knows he has to play to get his salary and the big lump sum bonus he's due at the end of this season. He's healthy and he looked like a man possessed tonight. Moss has a new QB, who's never really been that great, and he's on a new team. Also missed more time than TO last year. I won't even address the other WRs b/c I think there's a huge drop-off to the 2d Tier after TO and Moss.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Getting to your three points...Putting TO at #8 overall makes no sense to me.
TO has played 16 games once in the last six seasons. And if TO gets an "injury" in week one, he'll make just about the same (obviously he'll lose any incentives) as if he has a huge year. Either way, he's got very little chance of getting that big lump sum bonus he's due at the end of the season. TO also missed all of training camp, which means he's more likely to get hurt this year IMO.
I don't like Moss either.
I normally have my WR #1 ranked around #13 but I'm having a lot of trouble this year finding a RB I can get really excited about after pick #7 in a 12 team draft. At that point, I'm going WR#1, figuring I can get the same quality of a RB on the way back in round 2 at #17 that I could've got at #8.
Wally Cleaver
Footballguy
wow
Hi GATZ,If you want to keep posting here, please don't go there. TIA.
J
I think what we're seeing here is Owens calming down. Remember, we're 14 days from one of the most knowledgeable Eagle guys out there, Ron Jaworski, saying he thought TO was finished as an Eagle based on what he knew. It looks for now like Owens has smartened up. For him, it's about the risk and how good you feel about him being able to keep his head on straight.If you feel he's solid there, that's awesome.J
slayer666
Footballguy
I don't see why him being ranked at #30 overall is that ridiculous. He is a pain in the keester capable of imploding at any given time. You saw the best of TO tonight but what about the weeks when things don't go so well for him? He turns into a pouting little beeeeotch. He also hasn't made it through an entire season injury free in 3 straight years. Most of the wide receivers ranked ahead of him on the top 300 will put up comparable numbers without all the hassle. Besides, if you don't like the rankings then use your own. 
If you want to continue posting here, you won't call people out as punks. You can understand that or find a new board. Your choice. TIA.
J
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BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
No one complained about the ranking when T.O was working out for the media in his front yard.No one complained about the ranking after T.O said he didn't think that he could work with McNabb.Where were you then? Please, show me the "T.O. is ranked too low" thread 
It's easy to come on here and rip someone after one pre season game. 
It's easy to come on here and rip someone after one pre season game. 
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Not only that, it's just that. A preseason game. Who cares?TO can blow up at any time. I don't want that on my team when CJ, Harrison, and maybe even Horn are still on the board.No one complained about the ranking when T.O was working out for the media in his front yard.
No one complained about the ranking after T.O said he didn't think that he could work with McNabb.
Where were you then? Please, show me the "T.O. is ranked too low" thread
It's easy to come on here and rip someone after one pre season game.
I don't want a player that can lose the league for me, when his value is only half a round higher. Let someone else deal with that.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
C'mon fellas, it's a couple hours after his first game back. If he went 1/8 yards would ya's be screaming that he's ranked too high and he should be at 60 overall? 
The ranking is assuming the risk involved with taking him, and also his groin injury. If you don't think there's any risk, then take him as your #1 WR. But I would be surprised if he went the season without a mishap, so the ranking would be justifiable IMO. They aren't gospel anyway, only a guide of opinions. Go with what you think, it's your team in the end.
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I've personally had TO as the #1 WR all along for my 2005 rankings. Was worried when he pulled that garbage and got sent home but never really thought he'd be stupid enough to screw up his season. He's the most physical WR in the NFL and IMO is on a better team than any of the other top ranked WRs this year. McNabb's also finally becoming the passer many critics said he'd never become. Also think TOs '05 #s will be better than '04 due to improvement from a 2nd yr in the system.
Cool. Then you are spot on with him at #8 in your rankings.
J
PatsFan72
Footballguy
If T.O. is still there at 3.06, I will first clean off the underside of the table, then bandage my knuckle, and then finally, and proudly, proclaim him as my #1 WR, then I'd have to clean off the underside of the table again.In the 3rd round he's worth the risk, not the end of the 1st, or start of the second, which is where he'll probbly go.
Wally Cleaver
Footballguy
Had one of my drafts last week and I was thrilled to get T.O. in the third round... Well 3.01... but I have a hard time with how people do not realize what T.O. has been doing for the last month.. Lets face it, TO loves two things besides himself... attention and money... The whole saga was contrived by Owens to get attention and to hopefully get more money out of the eagles... Once the possibility of being suspended became real T.O. would have to get in line because A. if he is suspended he will not get the weekly attention and Love he desires and B. He will not get the money he has coming to him even though he believes its not nearly enough... T.O. also knew that the Eagles would be willing to put up with a lot of his act because they know just how damn good he is.... Anyway, TO was going to push it as far as he could until he knew it was time to tone it down and get out there and play... You would have to know all along that the Eagles were not going to give up the most dominant offensive player in the league until there was absolutely no hope, and contrary to popular belief, Owens is not dumb enough to throw his career away or miss out on the money he is due this season... I feel confident, barring injury, that this will be TO's best season ever, and for those of you out there taking Chad Johnson, or Joe Horn over TO 
, well, all I have to say to you is good luck! IMO T.O. is the clear WR1 for this season as it is his second year in the Eagles system and 2nd year with Donovan while Moss will be playing in a new system, with a new QB, while playing almost all of his games on grass... Moss is amazing but I truly feel there are more question marks with him then with T.O. and after those two there is a decent sized drop-off to Holt and Harrison....
, well, all I have to say to you is good luck! IMO T.O. is the clear WR1 for this season as it is his second year in the Eagles system and 2nd year with Donovan while Moss will be playing in a new system, with a new QB, while playing almost all of his games on grass... Moss is amazing but I truly feel there are more question marks with him then with T.O. and after those two there is a decent sized drop-off to Holt and Harrison....
dude
Footballguy
Had one of my drafts last week and I was thrilled to get T.O. in the third round... Well 3.01... but I have a hard time with how people do not realize what T.O. has been doing for the last month.. Lets face it, TO loves two things besides himself... attention and money... The whole saga was contrived by Owens to get attention and to hopefully get more money out of the eagles... Once the possibility of being suspended became real T.O. would have to get in line because A. if he is suspended he will not get the weekly attention and Love he desires and B. He will not get the money he has coming to him even though he believes its not nearly enough... T.O. also knew that the Eagles would be willing to put up with a lot of his act because they know just how damn good he is.... Anyway, TO was going to push it as far as he could until he knew it was time to tone it down and get out there and play...
You would have to know all along that the Eagles were not going to give up the most dominant offensive player in the league until there was absolutely no hope, and contrary to popular belief, Owens is not dumb enough to throw his career away or miss out on the money he is due this season... I feel confident, barring injury, that this will be TO's best season ever, and for those of you out there taking Chad Johnson, or Joe Horn over TO
TO craves the limelight. There was no way he was gonna miss those first two games. MNF @ ATL, @ SF
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Hows that workin out for ya?
I didn't draft Owens. He went about 10 picks after my 2nd round pick, and 10 picks before my 3rd round pick.
JAA
Footballguy
You are only in 1 regular league? I would have thought you were in much more. Your bolded statement is my point. I was asking you how your strategy worked out. Looks to me (and a bunch of others) you missed out on a lot of value.Thats what FF is all about as you know, value. You want each player you draft to outperform his draft position. Taking TO in the 2nd round is a shark move since you "predict" his floor to be much higher than the other picks available coupled with the value available in the 3rd round.
At least that was my strategy which is working out for me.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
T.O. was too risky for my liking. I'm glad to hear taking TO worked out well for you though.You are only in 1 regular league? I would have thought you were in much more. Your bolded statement is my point. I was asking you how your strategy worked out. Looks to me (and a bunch of others) you missed out on a lot of value.Thats what FF is all about as you know, value. You want each player you draft to outperform his draft position. Taking TO in the 2nd round is a shark move since you "predict" his floor to be much higher than the other picks available coupled with the value available in the 3rd round.
At least that was my strategy which is working out for me.
