T.O. or Roy Williams (1 Viewer)

[eefflrat]

Just curious if poeple will be taking T.O. over Roy Williams in leagues. I'm thinking many will go ROY in a dynasty, but we are all playing for this year. If you had to choose, who would you take, and what would you expect.

My predictions are T.O. 75 catches 1175 yards 10 TD's

ROY 65 catches 900 yards 6 TD's

Yes, i recently traded Roy for T.O. so i am biased, but I still think T.O. has a lot of gas in his tank, and Roy has done nothing but disappoint

 

[JPeso]

Owens will have the better year. Your prediction for Roy mirrors mine, but I'm not sure Owens has more than 1,000 and 8 TD.

 

[BigTex]

T.O. and it won't be close. I guess if you're a Roy owner the fact that he and Romo have been working out in drills is a good thing.

 

[Mustang Man]

I could really care or less as long as Dallas can get a playoff win. Let TO win the numbers game.

Fantasy speaking TO will have the better numbers this season but I suspect that will be the last time he beats out RW in numbers so dynasty leagues should think RW.

 

[Da Guru]

Not sure about Williams but Owens will have a good year.

Edwards will be intimidated by Owens like Romo was and force him the ball, plus the Bills will be trying to keep Owens happy and will throw more inside the 5 than they normally would.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

I don't really like either of them but I could see Roy Williams having a better season. I'd be wary of T.O. He's getting really old so there's always that chance that his stats totally fall off. Also this is the first time in a long time when he's not catching passes from at least a very good quarterback like Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Drew Bledsoe, or Tony Romo. T.O's been pretty lucky in that aspect of his career.

 

[travdogg]

Honestly, I'd rather have TO in a dynasty, let alone a redraft.

 

[Ice Cream Man]

Honestly, I'd rather have TO in a dynasty, let alone a redraft.

 

[trader jake]

I don't really like either of them but I could see Roy Williams having a better season. I'd be wary of T.O. He's getting really old so there's always that chance that his stats totally fall off. Also this is the first time in a long time when he's not catching passes from at least a very good quarterback like Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Drew Bledsoe, or Tony Romo. T.O's been pretty lucky in that aspect of his career.

They've been lucky to play with T.O.

 

[puckalicious]

To me the question is would you rather have the WR with a top-10 ceiling, or the WR with a top-10 floor? TO is the choice here. I'm not worried about his age, he takes incredible care of his body and he is a natural freak of an athlete. The only thing that will lead to a drastic drop in production is a serious injury ala Rice. And even then he still had a couple top 10 seasons after that.

I would also take TO in dynasty over Roy.

 

[jurb26]

Williams, easily. TO is just about done IMO. Not too mention that Williams will have the better QB, better offense and better environment to play in. The fact that you will be able to draft him later is just gravy to sweeten the deal.

 

[Pictus Cat]

I traded RW for a 2010 1st and 2nd round rookie pick in dynasty.

Could go either way.

I decided to take a chance in the future as I don't think RW is top 10 material.

 

[RoyDubb]

TO's targets the past 3 years with Cowboys

2006: 150 in 16 games

2007: 135 in 15 gms

2008: 140 in 16 gms

As a team, DALLAS threw 531 and 535 times the last 2 years with Romo at QB.

RoyW may not get the same # of looks from Romo as TO got, but as the WR1 in this passing offense (minimum 500 passing att to be considered a passing team IMO), I expect Roy to get a minimum of 125 targets. And I would think RoyDubb can realistically catch 70 balls.

I see a floor of 70-1050-7 for Roy.

 

[travdogg]

It seems to me that some people are really underestimating TO, both in his ability and how important he was to Dallas.

I very much believe Dallas' offense gets worse(at everything) with Owens gone. Witten will no longer be seeing massive holes in the seam, Roy will be facing #1 corners, the running game will be seeing an 8th man in the box far more often than in recent years and Romo himself will have to prove himself as a QB without an elite WR,though Owens barely counts as that anymore.

Also, Dallas passing attempts are very likely to decrease(perhaps by a very large number) due to lesser WR talent and having 3 quality RB's. I suspect Dallas may even become a run first team this season.

Is Roy the #1? I suspect Witten will see more targets and will likely do more with those targets. Roy has a lot of athletic ability, but he's really only been great for one year and it was 3 years ago on a team that passed far more than Dallas will. Honestly, what's the difference between Roy Williams and Santana Moss?

In Buffalo the exact opposite is happening by adding TO. Evans is too big a threat to leave single covered constantly and Lynch was already running well before, now the holes will be bigger and teams will have to compensate by either letting Lynch hash them or single covering the WR's.

Trent Edwards has looked pretty solid considering what he was throwing to and now is adding an excellent WR to the mix. While I wouldn't promise it, I wouldn't be shocked if Buffalo threw for 25 TD's this season.

Factor in that Roy has been a disappointment each of the last 2 years and has a lengthy injury history and I don't see why he's safer than TO, and he's clearly not as talented so I don't see the upside either.

Personally I think TO should go at least 2 rounds before Roy in a redraft and probably at least 3-4 WR's ahead of Roy in a dynasty start up.

 

[RoyDubb]

I think the main point about RoyW is do you think he's a stud talent, wasted in a mess in Detroit. If i remember correctly after his breakout 3rd year, everyone was high on him and counting him like a top-5 dynasty WR. See Braylon Edwards after his 2007 campaign.

I personally think the main question with RoyW is his work ethic. If he figures it out, that he wants to be an ELITE WR, I think he can and will be in DALLAS. I wouldn't be surprised if he comes close to his 3rd year numbers - 80-1280-8.

 

[Biabreakable]

I am not confident in Roy Williams being the #1 WR target in Dallas and I doubt he gets the same number of targets that TO did.

I agree with the poster who said that Dallas offense will see a haircut without TO.

Witten is still the guy to have here.

TO is getting really long in the tooth but he probably has another decent season in him because of his work ethic and he will have a positive impact on the entire Bills offense (at least statisticly).

Would rather have TO in any format even though this will probably be TO's last decent season.

I don't think very highly of Roy.

 

[Bri]

I don't really like either of them but I could see Roy Williams having a better season. I'd be wary of T.O. He's getting really old so there's always that chance that his stats totally fall off. Also this is the first time in a long time when he's not catching passes from at least a very good quarterback like Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Drew Bledsoe, or Tony Romo. T.O's been pretty lucky in that aspect of his career.

what he said(and QBs are a good point)Don't underestimate the cold in Buffalo either. Roy hasn't been "very good" in a longer time than many seem to remember.I don't think Witten is going to have as awesome a year as people think. Top TE is one thing but some have him borderring top WR territory and ...well that guy plays in a crowd of defenders where many of his catches seem to be hard fought wrestling for the ball in the air. He's not getting 100 catches or anywhere near it unless Roy establishes himself. WR and TE are sooo not the same position. It's far easier for a D to smother a TE and some folks gotta lighten up on their Witten projections.

 

[Biabreakable]

I don't really like either of them but I could see Roy Williams having a better season. I'd be wary of T.O. He's getting really old so there's always that chance that his stats totally fall off. Also this is the first time in a long time when he's not catching passes from at least a very good quarterback like Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Drew Bledsoe, or Tony Romo. T.O's been pretty lucky in that aspect of his career.

what he said(and QBs are a good point)Don't underestimate the cold in Buffalo either. Roy hasn't been "very good" in a longer time than many seem to remember.I don't think Witten is going to have as awesome a year as people think. Top TE is one thing but some have him borderring top WR territory and ...well that guy plays in a crowd of defenders where many of his catches seem to be hard fought wrestling for the ball in the air. He's not getting 100 catches or anywhere near it unless Roy establishes himself. WR and TE are sooo not the same position. It's far easier for a D to smother a TE and some folks gotta lighten up on their Witten projections.

I am not sure what projections your taking issue with. 100 catches is a lot for any player but Witten is capable of that.San Diego not having any star WRs has not seemed to hurt Gates too much. Witten is a similar caliber player.

 

[puckalicious]

I don't really like either of them but I could see Roy Williams having a better season. I'd be wary of T.O. He's getting really old so there's always that chance that his stats totally fall off. Also this is the first time in a long time when he's not catching passes from at least a very good quarterback like Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Drew Bledsoe, or Tony Romo. T.O's been pretty lucky in that aspect of his career.

what he said(and QBs are a good point)Don't underestimate the cold in Buffalo either.

Roy hasn't been "very good" in a longer time than many seem to remember.

I don't think Witten is going to have as awesome a year as people think. Top TE is one thing but some have him borderring top WR territory and ...well that guy plays in a crowd of defenders where many of his catches seem to be hard fought wrestling for the ball in the air. He's not getting 100 catches or anywhere near it unless Roy establishes himself. WR and TE are sooo not the same position. It's far easier for a D to smother a TE and some folks gotta lighten up on their Witten projections.

This just in, TO played in Philly.

 

[Buckeyedawgs]

I think you guys still salvating at Roy's potentional production now T.O is gone are going to be dissapointed again.

AUSTIN MILES will have the wr-1 numbers if any of them do after Witten.

3 back attack, Witten, Miles,....... Won;t be much left for Roy. He will have his game or 2 a year to keep you all over hypeing him just like he always has at best. T.O. will still have WR-2 numbers at worst. Roy never has and never will obtain WR-2 numbers!

 

[Steed]

I think you guys still salvating at Roy's potentional production now T.O is gone are going to be dissapointed again.AUSTIN MILES will have the wr-1 numbers if any of them do after Witten. 3 back attack, Witten, Miles,....... Won;t be much left for Roy. He will have his game or 2 a year to keep you all over hypeing him just like he always has at best. T.O. will still have WR-2 numbers at worst. Roy never has and never will obtain WR-2 numbers!

If you are predicting injury to Roy then fine, but you should know Roy takes over TO's more productive spot in the offensive formations, not Miles.

 

[inzanitee]

Roy never has and never will obtain WR-2 numbers!

2006 82 catches, 1310 yds, 7 TDsHow do you figure he *never has*?

 

[az_prof]

Roy by far. TO switching offenses and he will be playing with the worst QB he has ever had tossing him passes. Plus, Evans knows the offense, is a legitimate threat, knows the QB, and will command a share of the passes. I think ROY is in a much better situation.

 

[az_prof]

I don't really like either of them but I could see Roy Williams having a better season. I'd be wary of T.O. He's getting really old so there's always that chance that his stats totally fall off. Also this is the first time in a long time when he's not catching passes from at least a very good quarterback like Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Drew Bledsoe, or Tony Romo. T.O's been pretty lucky in that aspect of his career.

what he said(and QBs are a good point)Don't underestimate the cold in Buffalo either.

Roy hasn't been "very good" in a longer time than many seem to remember.

I don't think Witten is going to have as awesome a year as people think. Top TE is one thing but some have him borderring top WR territory and ...well that guy plays in a crowd of defenders where many of his catches seem to be hard fought wrestling for the ball in the air. He's not getting 100 catches or anywhere near it unless Roy establishes himself. WR and TE are sooo not the same position. It's far easier for a D to smother a TE and some folks gotta lighten up on their Witten projections.

This just in, TO played in Philly.

FYI, Philly is NOT Buffalo. Philly is on the coast and is far south of Buffalo.http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatolo...76&clocid2=

 

[scrumptrulescent]

The Roy bashing is hilarious. I'll take Roy's stats over TO's this year. TO had to swallow his pride b/c Buffalo was the only team interested. He's taking a huge publicity step down and his ego's hurting. He's playing in BUFFALO!

 

[Bri]

I don't really like either of them but I could see Roy Williams having a better season. I'd be wary of T.O. He's getting really old so there's always that chance that his stats totally fall off. Also this is the first time in a long time when he's not catching passes from at least a very good quarterback like Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Drew Bledsoe, or Tony Romo. T.O's been pretty lucky in that aspect of his career.

what he said(and QBs are a good point)Don't underestimate the cold in Buffalo either.

Roy hasn't been "very good" in a longer time than many seem to remember.

I don't think Witten is going to have as awesome a year as people think. Top TE is one thing but some have him borderring top WR territory and ...well that guy plays in a crowd of defenders where many of his catches seem to be hard fought wrestling for the ball in the air. He's not getting 100 catches or anywhere near it unless Roy establishes himself. WR and TE are sooo not the same position. It's far easier for a D to smother a TE and some folks gotta lighten up on their Witten projections.

This just in, TO played in Philly.

Buffalo is FAR colder and has much more snow than Philly. One climate is more NYC/NJ like while the other is more like Canada. A foot of snow is "meh" in Buffalo and an event in Philly.

 

[az_prof]

Is Roy the #1? I suspect Witten will see more targets and will likely do more with those targets. Roy has a lot of athletic ability, but he's really only been great for one year and it was 3 years ago on a team that passed far more than Dallas will. Honestly, what's the difference between Roy Williams and Santana Moss?Personally I think TO should go at least 2 rounds before Roy in a redraft and probably at least 3-4 WR's ahead of Roy in a dynasty start up.

First, comparing Roy Williams to Santana Moss is a bad analogy. What's the difference? Let's start with size: Roy Williams is 6'2'' 220; Moss is 5'10'' 200. How about age? Williams is two years younger.

 

[travdogg]

Is Roy the #1? I suspect Witten will see more targets and will likely do more with those targets. Roy has a lot of athletic ability, but he's really only been great for one year and it was 3 years ago on a team that passed far more than Dallas will. Honestly, what's the difference between Roy Williams and Santana Moss?

Personally I think TO should go at least 2 rounds before Roy in a redraft and probably at least 3-4 WR's ahead of Roy in a dynasty start up.

First, comparing Roy Williams to Santana Moss is a bad analogy. What's the difference? Let's start with size: Roy Williams is 6'2'' 220; Moss is 5'10'' 200. How about age? Williams is two years younger.

That analogy was about fantasy value. They are both inconsistent disappointments who should be better than they are. For the record, I'd probably rather have Santana than Roy too.

 

[RoyDubb]

Andre Johnson never had a top-10 season before last year (his 6th year in the league) and that was probably due to David Carr. I wont be surprised at all that Roy fits in the same boat here (actually Roy had 1 top-10 year, his 3rd year). Both are talented enough, Roy just needs to get his act together and stop being lazy. We'll see if he figures it out. I take this thread as a sign that Roy will really have a huge year in 2009 - contrarian effect in full blast !!!

 

[eefflrat]

Andre Johnson never had a top-10 season before last year (his 6th year in the league) and that was probably due to David Carr. I wont be surprised at all that Roy fits in the same boat here (actually Roy had 1 top-10 year, his 3rd year). Both are talented enough, Roy just needs to get his act together and stop being lazy. We'll see if he figures it out. I take this thread as a sign that Roy will really have a huge year in 2009 - contrarian effect in full blast !!!

Andre Johnson, on a per game basis, has been a top 5 WR the past few years. His injuries have slowed him down, last year was his first injury free year, but he has put up great numbers when he played. Royu Williams has never been injured he just flat out stunk.I don't see a comparison of the two. at all.

 

[Bri]

Bia, might find this interesting

http://twurl.nl/dazx2u

 

[puckalicious]

I don't really like either of them but I could see Roy Williams having a better season. I'd be wary of T.O. He's getting really old so there's always that chance that his stats totally fall off. Also this is the first time in a long time when he's not catching passes from at least a very good quarterback like Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Drew Bledsoe, or Tony Romo. T.O's been pretty lucky in that aspect of his career.

what he said(and QBs are a good point)Don't underestimate the cold in Buffalo either.

Roy hasn't been "very good" in a longer time than many seem to remember.

I don't think Witten is going to have as awesome a year as people think. Top TE is one thing but some have him borderring top WR territory and ...well that guy plays in a crowd of defenders where many of his catches seem to be hard fought wrestling for the ball in the air. He's not getting 100 catches or anywhere near it unless Roy establishes himself. WR and TE are sooo not the same position. It's far easier for a D to smother a TE and some folks gotta lighten up on their Witten projections.

This just in, TO played in Philly.

Buffalo is FAR colder and has much more snow than Philly. One climate is more NYC/NJ like while the other is more like Canada. A foot of snow is "meh" in Buffalo and an event in Philly.

The average low temps for both cities in november & december (looked up on weather.com):Buffalo: 34, 24

Philly: 32, 24

The average highs are about 10 degrees more in Philly, but they are BOTH above freezing on average for highs. The "far colder" argument is BS. More snow? Yes, but that was not the claim.

 

[puckalicious]

I don't really like either of them but I could see Roy Williams having a better season. I'd be wary of T.O. He's getting really old so there's always that chance that his stats totally fall off. Also this is the first time in a long time when he's not catching passes from at least a very good quarterback like Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Drew Bledsoe, or Tony Romo. T.O's been pretty lucky in that aspect of his career.

what he said(and QBs are a good point)Don't underestimate the cold in Buffalo either.

Roy hasn't been "very good" in a longer time than many seem to remember.

I don't think Witten is going to have as awesome a year as people think. Top TE is one thing but some have him borderring top WR territory and ...well that guy plays in a crowd of defenders where many of his catches seem to be hard fought wrestling for the ball in the air. He's not getting 100 catches or anywhere near it unless Roy establishes himself. WR and TE are sooo not the same position. It's far easier for a D to smother a TE and some folks gotta lighten up on their Witten projections.

This just in, TO played in Philly.

FYI, Philly is NOT Buffalo. Philly is on the coast and is far south of Buffalo.http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatolo...76&clocid2=

For whatever reason, the weather.com pages I referenced in my above post don't jive with your link. Using your link -

Buffalo, NY on average is cooler than Philadelphia, PA by 7°F.

I don't know how in the world TO will be able to handle this. You are right, he will be terrible now.

 

[inzanitee]

Royu Williams has never been injured he just flat out stunk.

Horrible information in this thread. Roy missed several games in 2005 & 2007 due to injury.

In 2004 he started 11 games and had 800+ yds and 8 TDs

In 2005 he started 12 games, had 600+ yds and 8 TDs

In 2006, the only year he started every game, he was very good with 1300+ yds and 7 TDs

In 2007 he played 12 games, had 800+ yds and 5 TDs

If you look at the numbers with the games played he doesn't "flat out stink," he is actually pretty good.

I mean come on people.

 

[puckalicious]

Royu Williams has never been injured he just flat out stunk.

Horrible information in this thread. Roy missed several games in 2005 & 2007 due to injury.

In 2004 he started 11 games and had 800+ yds and 8 TDs

In 2005 he started 12 games, had 600+ yds and 8 TDs

In 2006, the only year he started every game, he was very good with 1300+ yds and 7 TDs

In 2007 he played 12 games, had 800+ yds and 5 TDs

If you look at the numbers with the games played he doesn't "flat out stink," he is actually pretty good.

I mean come on people.

So what's worse in your eyes, a WR that "stinks", or a "pretty good" one that is constantly injured? At least with the one that stinks you just stay away, but it's easy to get burned on a guy that always has potential but can never live up to it.Sure Roy had a good year in 2006, but that was in a "pass all day" Martz system where Roy wasn't even a true #1. Mike Furry had just as many targets at 146 compared to Roy's 153 in an offense that passed 596 times. I

 

[Mikey16x]

Not even a contest... T.O hands down. Not only am I the biggest Roy Williams critic but it's only football common sense. Roy Williams is on a heavily stacked offense, he has 3-4 other receivers that can make plays as well as arguably the best pass catching tight end in the league. T.O is on a pretty crappy offense, only other option being Lee Evans. Not only is T.O on a crappy offense with no real threats, but he has a young QB and young staff that I'm pretty sure he can bulldoze into throwing him the ball. All of these variables as well as the fact that Roy Williams isn't half the wide receiver T.O is, pretty much cut and dry.

Roy Williams- 68 catches 800 yards and 7 TD's

T.O- 90 catches 1300 yards and 12 TD's

 

[Bri]

I don't really like either of them but I could see Roy Williams having a better season. I'd be wary of T.O. He's getting really old so there's always that chance that his stats totally fall off. Also this is the first time in a long time when he's not catching passes from at least a very good quarterback like Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Drew Bledsoe, or Tony Romo. T.O's been pretty lucky in that aspect of his career.

what he said(and QBs are a good point)Don't underestimate the cold in Buffalo either.

Roy hasn't been "very good" in a longer time than many seem to remember.

I don't think Witten is going to have as awesome a year as people think. Top TE is one thing but some have him borderring top WR territory and ...well that guy plays in a crowd of defenders where many of his catches seem to be hard fought wrestling for the ball in the air. He's not getting 100 catches or anywhere near it unless Roy establishes himself. WR and TE are sooo not the same position. It's far easier for a D to smother a TE and some folks gotta lighten up on their Witten projections.

This just in, TO played in Philly.

Buffalo is FAR colder and has much more snow than Philly. One climate is more NYC/NJ like while the other is more like Canada. A foot of snow is "meh" in Buffalo and an event in Philly.

The average low temps for both cities in november & december (looked up on weather.com):Buffalo: 34, 24

Philly: 32, 24

The average highs are about 10 degrees more in Philly, but they are BOTH above freezing on average for highs. The "far colder" argument is BS. More snow? Yes, but that was not the claim.

I don't believe it. Sorry I don't feel like searching since I think many folks here could back me up on this. I do realize how this sounds and I apologize for that. will reply to other in a sec

 

[Bri]

trouble with quotes, puckalicious-

I think you're misunderstanding something about my post. See I mentioned "what he said" plus "don't underestimate the weather". Both parts. I didn't say he'd be terrible either.

I don't suppose from the above post I can convince you but....if you are outside in Buffalo in December you are smacked with the cold probably thinking "holy .... it's cold". It's bitter and it's not fun to be in. (We're just talking about 2 maybe 3 games here) You've caught a frozen football right? Hardness of it? hands almost hurt when ya snag it? No one is having a whole lot of success passing in December in Buffalo, especially not a WR that has to get used to playing for what is likely the worst QB he's ever played with AND we could argue the worst offense he's ever been on.

Also FWIW Jim Kelly's numbers dropped to about 200 yards per game in December in Buffalo.

Andre Reed found a way to get it done. TO can too but he's not closing out the year with 20 catch 200 yard games like in San Fran and Buffalo won't have many(if any) 300 yard passing games in December in Buffalo.

 

[az_prof]

trouble with quotes, puckalicious-

I think you're misunderstanding something about my post. See I mentioned "what he said" plus "don't underestimate the weather". Both parts. I didn't say he'd be terrible either.

I don't suppose from the above post I can convince you but....if you are outside in Buffalo in December you are smacked with the cold probably thinking "holy .... it's cold". It's bitter and it's not fun to be in. (We're just talking about 2 maybe 3 games here) You've caught a frozen football right? Hardness of it? hands almost hurt when ya snag it? No one is having a whole lot of success passing in December in Buffalo, especially not a WR that has to get used to playing for what is likely the worst QB he's ever played with AND we could argue the worst offense he's ever been on.

Also FWIW Jim Kelly's numbers dropped to about 200 yards per game in December in Buffalo.

Andre Reed found a way to get it done. TO can too but he's not closing out the year with 20 catch 200 yard games like in San Fran and Buffalo won't have many(if any) 300 yard passing games in December in Buffalo.

Good explanation. It isn't like TO will suck because of playing in cold weather. But the team as a whole just will not pass as much in Nov. and Dec. Moreover, the ball is hard and your hands are cold and stiff and it does affect passing; most of us take winter weather into account when we lock in our fantasy lineup because of this reality.And, it is simply ridiculous to try and say that the weather in PHI is the same as Buffalo. The link I provided makes that clear whereas he provides no link. And anyone who has lived in both cities will tell you the same.

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatolo...76&clocid2=

 

[inzanitee]

Royu Williams has never been injured he just flat out stunk.

Horrible information in this thread. Roy missed several games in 2005 & 2007 due to injury.

In 2004 he started 11 games and had 800+ yds and 8 TDs

In 2005 he started 12 games, had 600+ yds and 8 TDs

In 2006, the only year he started every game, he was very good with 1300+ yds and 7 TDs

In 2007 he played 12 games, had 800+ yds and 5 TDs

If you look at the numbers with the games played he doesn't "flat out stink," he is actually pretty good.

I mean come on people.

So what's worse in your eyes, a WR that "stinks", or a "pretty good" one that is constantly injured? At least with the one that stinks you just stay away, but it's easy to get burned on a guy that always has potential but can never live up to it.Sure Roy had a good year in 2006, but that was in a "pass all day" Martz system where Roy wasn't even a true #1. Mike Furry had just as many targets at 146 compared to Roy's 153 in an offense that passed 596 times. I

The original post made two statments that were completely incorrect. "He has never been injured" and "he just flat out stunk" are both wrong. I was merely correcting the info, you can draw whatever conclusions you wish.

 

[twistd]

Andre Johnson never had a top-10 season before last year (his 6th year in the league) and that was probably due to David Carr. I wont be surprised at all that Roy fits in the same boat here (actually Roy had 1 top-10 year, his 3rd year). Both are talented enough, Roy just needs to get his act together and stop being lazy. We'll see if he figures it out. I take this thread as a sign that Roy will really have a huge year in 2009 - contrarian effect in full blast !!!

Roy Williams has a $100 body and a $.10 head. That is his problem. The problem with Roy is that last year, after Dallas gave up a first and a third to get him, and signed him to a big contract, Roy was invisible. I can understand his struggling a bit with the offense, but he was nothing short of horrible. Just as a comparison, Mark Bradley was cut by the Bears mid-season, so he had to switch teams during the season. Here is the production of the two with their new teams:Williams 19 catches 198 yards 10 gamesMark Bradley 30 catches 380 yards 13 gamesBradley was waived but outperformed Roy by quite a bit. He too, was the third option in the offense. I think Roy Williams is going to disappoint both the Cowboys and his fantasy owners.

 

[Yitbos69]

Andre Johnson never had a top-10 season before last year (his 6th year in the league) and that was probably due to David Carr. I wont be surprised at all that Roy fits in the same boat here (actually Roy had 1 top-10 year, his 3rd year). Both are talented enough, Roy just needs to get his act together and stop being lazy. We'll see if he figures it out. I take this thread as a sign that Roy will really have a huge year in 2009 - contrarian effect in full blast !!!

Roy Williams has a $100 body and a $.10 head. That is his problem. The problem with Roy is that last year, after Dallas gave up a first and a third to get him, and signed him to a big contract, Roy was invisible. I can understand his struggling a bit with the offense, but he was nothing short of horrible. Just as a comparison, Mark Bradley was cut by the Bears mid-season, so he had to switch teams during the season. Here is the production of the two with their new teams:Williams 19 catches 198 yards 10 gamesMark Bradley 30 catches 380 yards 13 gamesBradley was waived but outperformed Roy by quite a bit. He too, was the third option in the offense. I think Roy Williams is going to disappoint both the Cowboys and his fantasy owners.

Williams was 5th in Targets for Dallas and Bradley was 3rd on KC

 

[Jason Wood]

If Roy Williams and TO both play at least 14 games this season, I would be stunned, absolutely stunned, if TO didn't trounce Roy's numbers.

 

[trader jake]

If Roy Williams and TO both play at least 14 games this season, I would be stunned, absolutely stunned, if TO didn't trounce Roy's numbers.

Yup. In a redraft T.O. is the obvious choice. I can understand a Roy Williams argument in the dynasty format but projections for 2009 should easily favor Owens in Buffalo over Williams with Dallas.Long term it probably comes down to an owner's belief in Roy's talent and work ethic. Most agree that he's supremely talented but does he have that inner drive to be more that Chris Chambers Vol 2.0?

 

[puckalicious]

trouble with quotes, puckalicious-

I think you're misunderstanding something about my post. See I mentioned "what he said" plus "don't underestimate the weather". Both parts. I didn't say he'd be terrible either.

I don't suppose from the above post I can convince you but....if you are outside in Buffalo in December you are smacked with the cold probably thinking "holy .... it's cold". It's bitter and it's not fun to be in. (We're just talking about 2 maybe 3 games here) You've caught a frozen football right? Hardness of it? hands almost hurt when ya snag it? No one is having a whole lot of success passing in December in Buffalo, especially not a WR that has to get used to playing for what is likely the worst QB he's ever played with AND we could argue the worst offense he's ever been on.

Also FWIW Jim Kelly's numbers dropped to about 200 yards per game in December in Buffalo.

Andre Reed found a way to get it done. TO can too but he's not closing out the year with 20 catch 200 yard games like in San Fran and Buffalo won't have many(if any) 300 yard passing games in December in Buffalo.

Good explanation. It isn't like TO will suck because of playing in cold weather. But the team as a whole just will not pass as much in Nov. and Dec. Moreover, the ball is hard and your hands are cold and stiff and it does affect passing; most of us take winter weather into account when we lock in our fantasy lineup because of this reality.And, it is simply ridiculous to try and say that the weather in PHI is the same as Buffalo. The link I provided makes that clear whereas he provides no link. And anyone who has lived in both cities will tell you the same.

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatolo...76&clocid2=

Temps vary from season to season. On average, the data is clear that it is not THAT much colder in Buffalo. That is my point, we're not talking arctic circle here. The claim was that it was FAR COLDER, which IMO is bunk. If you want to say the 'weather' is worse (aka wind & snow) I have no problem with that, but again, that was not the original claim. If the comparison was say Miami to Buffalo then it is a valid point. I would be curious to see the coldest temp game TO has played in but I don't feel like going through every gamebook from his time in PHI. Either way, we're talking about a few games here that MIGHT be really cold. This alone is not enough to warrant any downgrade in projecting TO's 2009 outlook.

 

[renesauz]

If we're talking trades/ranking...then give me T.O.

If we're talking about draft value...then give me Roy. Right now Roy is presenting better value where they are being drafted.

 

[Sweet Love]

If Roy Williams and TO both play at least 14 games this season, I would be stunned, absolutely stunned, if TO didn't trounce Roy's numbers.

I think this is the year where age/situation catches up to TO. Edwards? Buffalo? That is going to keep TO at an elite level? Mid-30s are a ##### (just ask harrison). You are comparing a guy who put up 1300 yards in Matt Millen's abortion of a franchise to a guy who granted has been elite for a decade, but is 35 and going to a team that already has a decent receiver and needs to run the ball in December.Personally, i don't think either will crack the Top 10, but you are comparing WR 12 to WR 18 and TO is closer to #20 than most want to believe (and I am comparing on a game-to-game basis for those watching at home).

 

[puckalicious]

If Roy Williams and TO both play at least 14 games this season, I would be stunned, absolutely stunned, if TO didn't trounce Roy's numbers.

I think this is the year where age/situation catches up to TO. Edwards? Buffalo? That is going to keep TO at an elite level? Mid-30s are a ##### (just ask harrison). You are comparing a guy who put up 1300 yards in Matt Millen's abortion of a franchise to a guy who granted has been elite for a decade, but is 35 and going to a team that already has a decent receiver and needs to run the ball in December.Personally, i don't think either will crack the Top 10, but you are comparing WR 12 to WR 18 and TO is closer to #20 than most want to believe (and I am comparing on a game-to-game basis for those watching at home).

I don't get the comp to Harrison at all. Besides being completely different WRs, did I miss TO having a knee injury last season? On a pts/g basis (FBG scoring), TO was 11 last season and Roy was 78. In 2007 the rankings were 2 and 19 respectively. In 2006 it was 2 and 13 respectively. While I agree that TO is probably borderline top 10 now in BUF, I whole heartedly disagree that Roy is close to top 10 now in DAL. The gap in pts/g might not be all that much, but I think the difference in ranking will be.

 

[Bri]

This alone is not enough to warrant any downgrade in projecting TO's 2009 outlook.

But ya know what? If you have a good trade offer and they have 3 home games in December and Evans is doing well too at that point(3 very very likely scenarios) I think you'll "have to" take the trade. If I were a TO owner I'd be cognizant of the December weather and have my antenna up about anyone looking to trade a top player. It really could be the perfect time to move him.I know if if if if(in April) but they are very likely IMO and I think it's worth a headsup to TO owners now.

 

[Bri]

If Roy Williams and TO both play at least 14 games this season, I would be stunned, absolutely stunned, if TO didn't trounce Roy's numbers.

What would you project for Roy now?And (maybe a different scenario from first Q) let's assume Roy struggles, how much do you see Witten's stats changing as he is the only threat and everyone tries to swarm him and shut him down? How many is he catching with 3 Redskins 3 Eagles or 3 Giants almost coverring him at the same time?