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Tatum Bell: he's baaaaaaaaaCK.... (1 Viewer)

tommyGunZ

Footballguy
Bell coming in and picking up a 3rd and 1 - and running well otherwise. This is looking eerily similar to 2001 - when O.Gary fought off the young phenom until ~ week 6 when Portis took over.Bell's not dead yet - if he's been given up on in your league now's the time to make a move and perhaps grab a sleeping giant.FULL DISCLOSURE: I own Bell in 3 leagues, and Anderson in 1.

 
Seems like plenty of reason to be happy with Mike Anderson today! He again didn't get paydirt from 2 yards out, but converted on several short yardage situations. He's ripping some nice runs and has 3 receps for 27 yards.Bell has come in as change of pace, much as expected, with one unexpected 3rd and 1 carry. Just reporting the other side on this - but I can't argue that Bell is active in that role, just as suspected... ;)

 
this isnt something new he's looked like the best runner they have had since the season started in limited duty.

 
Seems like plenty of reason to be happy with Mike Anderson today! He again didn't get paydirt from 2 yards out, but converted on several short yardage situations. He's ripping some nice runs and has 3 receps for 27 yards.

Bell has come in as change of pace, much as expected, with one unexpected 3rd and 1 carry.

Just reporting the other side on this - but I can't argue that Bell is active in that role, just as suspected... ;)
The distribution is 16/9 right now, Anderson is the lead back. Seriously, is anyone surprised to see Bell play some? He is talented, just not ready overall to be the lead back. I don't know if he ever will be, but he'll surely be used a fair amount.

It's worth mentioning that MA is the Broncos 2nd leading reciever so far today.

 
wow - VERY rough drive for Bell -

2nd and 10 - 1 yard

1st and 10 - 2 yards

2nd and 8 - no gain

3rd and 8 - 5 yards

That won't get it done... we'll see though if/when he ever gets the chance.

I personally think that Bell is a little too much Quentin Griffin - not enough of a power runner to get that tough yard and break tackles between the tackles. He's damn fast, but once a defense is ready for him and/or used to him, they know how to deal with him rather well.

Edit: Comparison - latest drive:

Mike Anderson for 6 yards

Mike Anderson for 11 yards

Mike Anderson for 22 yards

T Bell for 1 yard

Bell is not back, per se ;)

 
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1-10-DEN 37 (6:04) M.Anderson left end to DEN 43 for 6 yards (D.Grant).2-4-DEN 43 (5:21) M.Anderson up the middle to JAX 46 for 11 yards (D.Cooper).1-10-JAC 46 (4:37) M.Anderson left tackle to JAX 24 for 22 yards (K.Wright).

 
wow - VERY rough drive for Bell -

2nd and 10 - 1 yard

1st and 10 - 2 yards

2nd and 8 - no gain

3rd and 8 - 5 yards

That won't get it done... we'll see though if/when he ever gets the chance.

I personally think that Bell is a little too much Quentin Griffin - not enough of a power runner to get that tough yard and break tackles between the tackles. He's damn fast, but once a defense is ready for him and/or used to him, they know how to deal with him rather well.

Edit: Comparison - latest drive:

Mike Anderson for 6 yards

Mike Anderson for 11 yards

Mike Anderson for 22 yards

T Bell for 1 yard

Bell is not back, per se ;)
Quite apparent you have an agenda - posting drive comparisons before the drive is even over. :thumbdown:
 
Seems like plenty of reason to be happy with Mike Anderson today! He again didn't get paydirt from 2 yards out, but converted on several short yardage situations. He's ripping some nice runs and has 3 receps for 27 yards.

Bell has come in as change of pace, much as expected, with one unexpected 3rd and 1 carry.

Just reporting the other side on this - but I can't argue that Bell is active in that role, just as suspected... ;)
16 touches = "change of pace"? :lmao:

 
Quite apparent you have an agenda - posting drive comparisons before the drive is even over. :thumbdown:
This is a joke, right? :lmao:
Not at all. It's one thing to point out facts that support your opinion, it's another thing to post deceptive numbers that are intellectually dishonest (drive comparisons before the drive is over) to support your opinion.
 
Respectable effort but outplayed by Anderson yet again

Code:
Rushing              Denver        Rush Yds  Avg  Lng  TD  FumL   M. Anderson    20  105  5.3  22    0     0   T. Bell        15   60  4.0  12    0     0
 
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Oh, I own Anderson - I have an agenda, which is the only reason I even have interest in this thread!As for posting a partial drive - that was all that had happened the time I had posted. LOL - It's not like I was omitting runs to make a case! To be sure, if Bell had broken one after my post you could have swung back with that - but he didn't. I'm only posting stats.

 
Quite apparent you have an agenda - posting drive comparisons before the drive is even over. :thumbdown:
This is a joke, right? :lmao:
Not at all. It's one thing to point out facts that support your opinion, it's another thing to post deceptive numbers that are intellectually dishonest (drive comparisons before the drive is over) to support your opinion.
So what's his "agenda," to get everyone to drop Bell so he can swoop in and get him on the cheap? Or maybe he's an Anderson owner who hopes Shanahan reads these message boards and will cause Bell to fall out of favor.An agenda? :lmao:

 
Quite apparent you have an agenda - posting drive comparisons before the drive is even over. :thumbdown:
This is a joke, right? :lmao:
Not at all. It's one thing to point out facts that support your opinion, it's another thing to post deceptive numbers that are intellectually dishonest (drive comparisons before the drive is over) to support your opinion.
Intellectually dishonest?! My goodness, nice reach. Honestly man, nothing personal but it was the middle of a drive and I threw that up. HAD Bell done something good after that you could make a case that I purposely omitted to make a case, but I think he had a 3 or 4 yard run. I had fun with that, but I'm not being deceptive here at all with my posts. Sheesh.

 
I had fun with that, but I'm not being deceptive here at all with my posts.
Not to speak for Mr. Gunz, but I think the point he may be trying to make is that if the stats would have been reversed on those two drives, some Anderson owners (not necessarily you) would probably have said....After the first drive: "this is a crucial eat-the-clock drive and the fact that Anderson is in there proves that Shanahan doesn't trust Bell"

After the next drive: "some decent garbage time runs by Bell, but it's clear that Anderson was the guy when it counted."

Again, I am in no way saying that you personally would have said something like this (I don't know you or your posting history at all). But I am pretty sure we'd have seen something like that had the situation been reversed.

 
This doesn't sound good, even with the nice results yesterday:

RB Tatum Bell was surprised as anyone that he got 15 carries Sunday."All week, I was running behind [Ron] Dayne," Bell said. "Then all the sudden in the flow of the game, they put me in. They kind of trusted me. They knew what I could do and it felt good to go in there and make plays."
 
This doesn't sound good, even with the nice results yesterday:

RB Tatum Bell was surprised as anyone that he got 15 carries Sunday.

"All week, I was running behind [Ron] Dayne," Bell said. "Then all the sudden in the flow of the game, they put me in. They kind of trusted me. They knew what I could do and it felt good to go in there and make plays."
I think it will be this way all year.Anderson will be the "for sure" starter and get 18-22 carries.

Depending on the defense, Bell or DAyne will get the rest.

Apparently they thought that Bell's speed would be a nice change of pace against the Jacksonville defense. The other week, they used Dayne's straight ahead style as a change of pace.

 
So, Ron Dayne is the loser, Bell is the winner. And lets remember that NONE of this matters because Anderson is, has been, and apparently always will be the starter.Fantasy options - STAY AWAY FROM DENVER

 
This doesn't sound good, even with the nice results yesterday:

RB Tatum Bell was surprised as anyone that he got 15 carries Sunday.

"All week, I was running behind [Ron] Dayne," Bell said. "Then all the sudden in the flow of the game, they put me in. They kind of trusted me. They knew what I could do and it felt good to go in there and make plays."
After all the back-and-forth in this thread, this last post makes me :lmao:
 
So, Ron Dayne is the loser, Bell is the winner. And lets remember that NONE of this matters because Anderson is, has been, and apparently always will be the starter.

Fantasy options - STAY AWAY FROM DENVER DAYNE & BELL.
Fixed.
 
not really sure how yesterday could be anything but good for Bell. I wasn't expecting him to get many/if any carries and midway through the game they had nearly identical totals. I think Shanny may continue with this thunder/lightning approach since it was so effective yesterday. I own Bell and MA in different leagues and basically it looks like the backfield may be a mess all year and change from week to week. I don't think MA will be the stud many expected and Bell probably won't take over the job as many expected. MA will put up #'s good enough to start but not enough to carry you as Denver backs in the past have....

 
One thing to keep in mind - Bell got that many carries in a game in which Anderson exceeded 20 carries. It may be that after a certain point, Shanny will start to feed more carries to Bell so as not to overwork Anderson.

 
:popcorn: I still have no idea where Shanahan is going with this. I do like Anderson's value right now given his draft position. Whether that will last? :shrug:
 
Anderson is performing well. Absent injury I think Shanahan sticks with the veteran back. Bell has been performing better. I think he has Shanahan's confidence now and will be the back of the future. In short, I see Bell as retaining some long term dynasty value, but having minimal value this year absent Anderson getting injured.Bell might present intriging matchups split out occassionally, but I have seen no evidence this will happen.

 
Anderson is performing well. Absent injury I think Shanahan sticks with the veteran back. Bell has been performing better. I think he has Shanahan's confidence now and will be the back of the future. In short, I see Bell as retaining some long term dynasty value, but having minimal value this year absent Anderson getting injured.Bell might present intriging matchups split out occassionally, but I have seen no evidence this will happen.
I'd agree with this as being the most probable course of events, with the possible (maybe probable) insertion of Dayne into the lineup if Anderson gets injured. Shanahan did try Dayne very early in the game yesterday - one decent run & one carry on 3rd & short that for some reason Shanahan sent into the 1 hole, where Dayne (just like most other run attempts yesterday in between the OGs) went for no yardage. I don't see Dayne as having a significant role unless Anderson does get dinged - then it's role-the-dice time. It's Anderson w/ Bell as CoP.
 
looks like RBBC (even though Denver NEVER has a RBBC)....
:goodposting: I remember that pre-season thread on this and I was roundly refuted by everyone that Shanny (like they know him) doesn't do RBBC. I pointed to my evidence of the last 5-8 weeks (can't remember but not just 2-3 games) where with a healthy Bell and Droughns, the carries were split like a RBBC. If Bell/Anderson remain healthy all year, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see more games like this.

 
One thing to keep in mind - Bell got that many carries in a game in which Anderson exceeded 20 carries. It may be that after a certain point, Shanny will start to feed more carries to Bell so as not to overwork Anderson.
If you looked just at the boxscore you might think that was the case but if you look closer.....In the 1st MA carries 6-17 and right at the end of the qtr Bell gets 1-12. Bell continues to carry into the 2nd qtr getting 4-20 while MA runs 6-25. So at the half MA has 12-42 and Bell has 5-32.

In the 3rd MA gets 4-18 and Bell gets 4-15. No one steps up and the split is 50-50 and for the game MA has 16-60 and Bell 9-47.

In the 4th Bell gets the 1st series and gains 1, 2, 0 and 5 (total 4-8). MA gets the next series and runs for 6, 11, and 22 (3-38). This was the difference between the two and up to that point they were nearly neck and yardage wise and Shanny was alternating series to series. MA ended the 4th with 7-49 and Bell had 7-15.

Don't be fooled MA does not have a strangle hold on this job. He busted off a nice series that made the #'s look better but up until that point (midway through the forth) Bell had 13-56 and MA had 16-60.

 
looks like RBBC (even though Denver NEVER has a RBBC)....
:goodposting: I remember that pre-season thread on this and I was roundly refuted by everyone that Shanny (like they know him) doesn't do RBBC. I pointed to my evidence of the last 5-8 weeks (can't remember but not just 2-3 games) where with a healthy Bell and Droughns, the carries were split like a RBBC. If Bell/Anderson remain healthy all year, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see more games like this.
What's your criteria for a RBBC? For me, even a run-first team that splits its carries 60-40 between two guys has the potential to provide your team with a viable RB2 or perhaps even a RB1 depending upon how successful they are moving the ball. I think Denver may be an example of this, but frankly I think Anderson will get more than 60% of the carries from here on out.

 
In the 4th Bell gets the 1st series and gains 1, 2, 0 and 5 (total 4-8). MA gets the next series and runs for 6, 11, and 22 (3-38). This was the difference between the two and up to that point they were nearly neck and yardage wise and Shanny was alternating series to series. MA ended the 4th with 7-49 and Bell had 7-15.

Don't be fooled MA does not have a strangle hold on this job. He busted off a nice series that made the #'s look better but up until that point (midway through the forth) Bell had 13-56 and MA had 16-60.
Right, so the guy who performed well late when they needed positive yardage to run the clock down is the one we think will lose carries to the 2nd year underachiever who averaged 2 ypc. Gotcha! :thumbup:
 
looks like RBBC (even though Denver NEVER has a RBBC)....
:goodposting: I remember that pre-season thread on this and I was roundly refuted by everyone that Shanny (like they know him) doesn't do RBBC. I pointed to my evidence of the last 5-8 weeks (can't remember but not just 2-3 games) where with a healthy Bell and Droughns, the carries were split like a RBBC. If Bell/Anderson remain healthy all year, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see more games like this.
What's your criteria for a RBBC? For me, even a run-first team that splits its carries 60-40 between two guys has the potential to provide your team with a viable RB2 or perhaps even a RB1 depending upon how successful they are moving the ball. I think Denver may be an example of this, but frankly I think Anderson will get more than 60% of the carries from here on out.
After the 1st quarter they essentially alternated each series. I'd say that is an RBBC.
 
Let us not forget that Jax RUN D leaves a little to be desired. It could have been schemed this way by Shanny to run run and run some more down Jax's throat. Anderson is 2 weeks removed from an injury, so to run him 35x this game in the FL sun wouldnt have made sense.In future games, where the passing game will be more involved....Anderson will get 70% to Bell's 30% of the carries IMO

 
Let us not forget that Jax RUN D leaves a little to be desired. It could have been schemed this way by Shanny to run run and run some more down Jax's throat. Anderson is 2 weeks removed from an injury, so to run him 35x this game in the FL sun wouldnt have made sense.

In future games, where the passing game will be more involved....Anderson will get 70% to Bell's 30% of the carries IMO
Bell just got hurt too though. :popcorn:

 
Let us not forget that Jax RUN D leaves a little to be desired. It could have been schemed this way by Shanny to run run and run some more down Jax's throat. Anderson is 2 weeks removed from an injury, so to run him 35x this game in the FL sun wouldnt have made sense.

In future games, where the passing game will be more involved....Anderson will get 70% to Bell's 30% of the carries IMO
Bell just got hurt too though. :popcorn:
I agree...different type of injury however.All Im saying is Bell WILL be playing a role this year, but as long as Anderson is healthy and effective...I see nothing more than 30% of the work for Bell.

 
In the 4th Bell gets the 1st series and gains 1, 2, 0 and 5 (total 4-8).  MA gets the next series and runs for 6, 11, and 22 (3-38).  This was the difference between the two and up to that point they were nearly neck and yardage wise and Shanny was alternating series to series.  MA ended the 4th with 7-49 and Bell had 7-15. 

Don't be fooled MA does not have a strangle hold on this job.  He busted off a nice series that made the #'s look better but up until that point (midway through the forth) Bell had 13-56 and MA had 16-60.
Right, so the guy who performed well late when they needed positive yardage to run the clock down is the one we think will lose carries to the 2nd year underachiever who averaged 2 ypc. Gotcha! :thumbup:
It is what it is. I certainly didn't expect Bell to get carries this week but he did and performed as well as MA for the majority of the game. You can take the numbers however you want to take them but for what it's worth Bell got the ball in the begining of the 4th quarter. I certainly didn't expect that and it only points to what looked (as of last week) like MA would be the primary ball carrier is not necessarily the case based on the FACT that midway through the 4th quarter they were nearly identical in rushes and yardage. This just shows that while many thought (myself included) that the job was MA's hands down may be a little premature. This battle looks like it may have many rounds.

Like I said, I have both guys in a couple leagues so I am an objective viewer watching what unfolds. As an observer I was surprised to see Bell carry as many times as he did, I was surprised to see a RBBC, I was surprised to see Bell get carries in the 4th quarter (although he didn't capitalize). I don't see how yesterday couldn't be anything but positive for Bell.

 
wow - VERY rough drive for Bell -

2nd and 10 - 1 yard

1st and 10 - 2 yards

2nd and 8 - no gain

3rd and 8 - 5 yards

That won't get it done... we'll see though if/when he ever gets the chance.

I personally think that Bell is a little too much Quentin Griffin - not enough of a power runner to get that tough yard and break tackles between the tackles.  He's damn fast, but once a defense is ready for him and/or used to him, they know how to deal with him rather well.

Edit: Comparison - latest drive:

Mike Anderson for 6 yards

Mike Anderson for 11 yards

Mike Anderson for 22 yards

T Bell for 1 yard

Bell is not back, per se  ;)
Quite apparent you have an agenda - posting drive comparisons before the drive is even over. :thumbdown:
:lmao: And Tommy has no agenda in this thread.

Week 4 is over. How much have you enjoyed Bell thus far?

 
looks like RBBC (even though Denver NEVER has a RBBC)....
:goodposting: I remember that pre-season thread on this and I was roundly refuted by everyone that Shanny (like they know him) doesn't do RBBC. I pointed to my evidence of the last 5-8 weeks (can't remember but not just 2-3 games) where with a healthy Bell and Droughns, the carries were split like a RBBC. If Bell/Anderson remain healthy all year, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see more games like this.
What's your criteria for a RBBC? For me, even a run-first team that splits its carries 60-40 between two guys has the potential to provide your team with a viable RB2 or perhaps even a RB1 depending upon how successful they are moving the ball. I think Denver may be an example of this, but frankly I think Anderson will get more than 60% of the carries from here on out.
After the 1st quarter they essentially alternated each series. I'd say that is an RBBC.
And to me, my criteria is that the carries are definitively split. I don't know how to qualify the ratio, but whether or not the team is run-first or the team can provide me with fantasy points is meaningless. When I think of LT, DD, A Green, SA, and others I think of no RBBC. There are some guys like Tiki who have a goal line back, there are some guys like Rudi that have a 3rd down/receiving back and there are some guys like Priest (this year) and MA who have guys that sub-in for them regularly.Based on yesterday's game I think MA/Bell smell a lot more like RBBC than all of the "Shanny doesn't run RBBC" crowd than even Priest does now that Larry keeps fumbling. People like to brand coaches, but the good ones use what they have got effectively. Remember how people thought that Gruden wasn't a guy that liked running games and that picking a RB in the draft didn't make sense? Parcells wasn't an aerial attack guy until he got to NE and then they threw the ball a ton with Bledsoe in his early years. Don Shula was a running game guy until he drafted Marino. Again, those examples are kind of off topic, but it was easy for Shanny to not be RBBC when Terrell Davis is running for 2000 yards or Portis has two phenomenal years or MA runs for about 1600 yars. Why can't he decide that he has two equivalent RBs and he is going to use them both this year? Oh, he can't because a bunch of fantasy guys said he couldn't. ;)

 
16 touches = "change of pace"?

:lmao:
When the workhorse got 26 touches, yeah.
So, Ron Dayne is the loser, Bell is the winner. And lets remember that NONE of this matters because Anderson is, has been, and apparently always will be the starter.

Fantasy options - STAY AWAY FROM DENVER
Right. It would have been sheer idiocy to have started Mike Anderson this week. I mean, the scrub only got 115 yards rushing (at 5.0 per carry), and was only the team's SECOND leading receiver. What a disappointing effort, I was hoping for 160 yards, a score, and being the team's FIRST leading receiver.Stay faaaar far away from Denver guys. Stick with your real studs. Guys like Curtis Martin, Jamal Lewis, and Fred Taylor.

looks like RBBC (even though Denver NEVER has a RBBC)....
:goodposting: I remember that pre-season thread on this and I was roundly refuted by everyone that Shanny (like they know him) doesn't do RBBC. I pointed to my evidence of the last 5-8 weeks (can't remember but not just 2-3 games) where with a healthy Bell and Droughns, the carries were split like a RBBC. If Bell/Anderson remain healthy all year, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see more games like this.
I think the fact that the game was in Florida had a lot to do with the split. Shanahan had a lot of problems in Miami with players getting fatigued and dehydrated from the heat and humidity. I remember reading after the game that the healthy split was designed to keep Anderson fresh. Anderson still wound up with 26 touches, too, so it's not like he was adversely affected by Bell getting carries.I suppose we'll see how this continues to play out, but I'm satisfied with any week where my workhorse back gets 25+ touches, regardless of how many his backup gets.

 

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