TE Byrd Cut (1 Viewer)

[tombonneau]

Just saw Rams cut TE Byrd. I live out in LA and follow the Trojans a bit ... and within the past few years, about every decent-rated offensive prospect not named Steve Smith has been a huge disappointment.

At what point should this be declared a trend and you should attach a huge warning label on all USC offensive prospects?

Cowherd was talking about this the other day, and I thought he was spot on with his theory that USC offensive guys are treated like NFL stars when they are in college. For one reason or another, I think this leads to a sense of entitlement and that guys think they can just coast by on talent. Works fine in college, not so much in the NFL.

Like I said, I'm not a USC hater, I actually like the team, but at some point you have to recognize that that program is doing something wrong in the way they are grooming their offensive star players ... because I think there's been too many underperformers -- Bush, Leinart, White, Jarrett, Williams, Byrd -- for it to be dismissed.

 

[cstu]

Smith has only had one year, give him at least two to fail.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Don't forget Winston Justice, Deuce Lutui, Jacob Rogers and Keary Colbert.

 

[bcr8f]

But then there is Tatupu too. Any more successes?

 

[B Maverick]

But then there is Tatupu too. Any more successes?

I think he said offensive players so they could avoid talking about Tatupu, PalomaloAlthough I think Palmer turned out ok.White and Bush are giving you what they were expected to give you. Although Bush was drafted too high he is a great player to have as a compliment to a pounder and as a return guy. He gives you flexibility to split him out wide and get him into space.White is a pounder. 1000 yards and a pile of dust.The WRs have been busts, led by williams who screwed himself following clarette out and not playing for a year. Leinert still has a chance to turn it all around.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

A little birdy told me Fred Davis is even more of a turd than Byrd, and that's saying something.

 

[tombonneau]

But then there is Tatupu too. Any more successes?

I think he said offensive players so they could avoid talking about Tatupu, PalomaloAlthough I think Palmer turned out ok.White and Bush are giving you what they were expected to give you. Although Bush was drafted too high he is a great player to have as a compliment to a pounder and as a return guy. He gives you flexibility to split him out wide and get him into space.White is a pounder. 1000 yards and a pile of dust.The WRs have been busts, led by williams who screwed himself following clarette out and not playing for a year. Leinert still has a chance to turn it all around.

I didn't include defensive players or offensive linemen because I'm more referring to the "star" players, which tend to be offensive skill positions.Not sure if you live out in LA or not, but I can tell you that those guys are covered in the media and treated like they are NFL stars. Guys on the defensive side of the ball don't get nearly the publicity, thus I don't think they are impacted as much.And Carson was part of the batch who got the program rolling, and the team wasn't covered to the degree they are now.

 

[stbugs]

Just saw Rams cut TE Byrd. I live out in LA and follow the Trojans a bit ... and within the past few years, about every decent-rated offensive prospect not named Steve Smith has been a huge disappointment.

At what point should this be declared a trend and you should attach a huge warning label on all USC offensive prospects?

Cowherd was talking about this the other day, and I thought he was spot on with his theory that USC offensive guys are treated like NFL stars when they are in college. For one reason or another, I think this leads to a sense of entitlement and that guys think they can just coast by on talent. Works fine in college, not so much in the NFL.

Like I said, I'm not a USC hater, I actually like the team, but at some point you have to recognize that that program is doing something wrong in the way they are grooming their offensive star players ... because I think there's been too many underperformers -- Bush, Leinart, White, Jarrett, Williams, Byrd -- for it to be dismissed.

You do realize that Steve Smith of USC is the guy on the Giants, not Steve Smith of the Panthers, right?

The only good player from USC that you are mentioning, actually went to Utah.

So, for recent drafts, including many 1st/2nd rounders, the only 2 decent people mentioned are either not from USC and or a Linebacker. Sure Reggie Bush isn't an abysmal failure like others, but to be honest, that is pitiful for how high all these guys got drafted because they got the benefit of being from a "big time" school.

 

[gump]

See prevous topics regarding Spurrier-coached WRs....I definitely think you can point out patterns with programs/coaches and NFL success.

I will say in defense of USC that Carroll's job is to win games, not "groom their offensive stars" for the NFL. Much like what we saw with SOS in Washington, that winning plan may not translate to the NFL.

 

[CalBear]

Players are individuals. Larry Johnson went to Penn State; did that keep him from setting records in the NFL? People decided they wouldn't take Marshawn Lynch because JJ Arrington busted. Too bad for them.

Most players don't perform up to expectations. At least half of them completely bust out. Teams which have more high-profile players will have more high-profile busts.

I hate USC, but that won't stop me from taking their players in fantasy leagues.

 

[jurb26]

Wow, don't let EBF catch wind of this thread....

 

[B Maverick]

But then there is Tatupu too. Any more successes?

I think he said offensive players so they could avoid talking about Tatupu, PalomaloAlthough I think Palmer turned out ok.White and Bush are giving you what they were expected to give you. Although Bush was drafted too high he is a great player to have as a compliment to a pounder and as a return guy. He gives you flexibility to split him out wide and get him into space.White is a pounder. 1000 yards and a pile of dust.The WRs have been busts, led by williams who screwed himself following clarette out and not playing for a year. Leinert still has a chance to turn it all around.

I didn't include defensive players or offensive linemen because I'm more referring to the "star" players, which tend to be offensive skill positions.Not sure if you live out in LA or not, but I can tell you that those guys are covered in the media and treated like they are NFL stars. Guys on the defensive side of the ball don't get nearly the publicity, thus I don't think they are impacted as much.And Carson was part of the batch who got the program rolling, and the team wasn't covered to the degree they are now.

I am in the OC so yeah i see how they are covered. Its mostly since they are winning and there is no NFL team here.But yeah the guys like Bush and Leinart are more covered then anyone and not yet living up to their status.

 

[tombonneau]

You do realize that Steve Smith of USC is the guy on the Giants, not Steve Smith of the Panthers, right?

I'm well aware of the difference between the two Steve Smiths, but thanks. I'm glad you were able to make yourself laugh.But once healthy, USC Steve Smith looked very good and would appear to have a future as an NFL WR.(Of course you could have said the same thing of Colbert after his rookie year ...)

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Just saw Rams cut TE Byrd. I live out in LA and follow the Trojans a bit ... and within the past few years, about every decent-rated offensive prospect not named Steve Smith has been a huge disappointment.

At what point should this be declared a trend and you should attach a huge warning label on all USC offensive prospects?

Cowherd was talking about this the other day, and I thought he was spot on with his theory that USC offensive guys are treated like NFL stars when they are in college. For one reason or another, I think this leads to a sense of entitlement and that guys think they can just coast by on talent. Works fine in college, not so much in the NFL.

Like I said, I'm not a USC hater, I actually like the team, but at some point you have to recognize that that program is doing something wrong in the way they are grooming their offensive star players ... because I think there's been too many underperformers -- Bush, Leinart, White, Jarrett, Williams, Byrd -- for it to be dismissed.

You do realize that Steve Smith of USC is the guy on the Giants, not Steve Smith of the Panthers, right?

The only good player from USC that you are mentioning, actually went to Utah.

So, for recent drafts, including many 1st/2nd rounders, the only 2 decent people mentioned are either not from USC and or a Linebacker. Sure Reggie Bush isn't an abysmal failure like others, but to be honest, that is pitiful for how high all these guys got drafted because they got the benefit of being from a "big time" school.

Did you watch the playoffs? When he was actually healthy!

 

[CalBear]

Let's take a look at this. We'll eliminate the 2003 draft based on the (unfounded and unwarranted) assertion that the hype in the past four years has been so much more than in the years before.

What does that leave us with in terms of offensive skill players?

2004:

Keary Colbert. Picked at the end of the second round, 10th WR off the board. Plays on a team with a major stud at WR1, that has ranked in the bottom 10 in the league in pass attempts over the past three years. That's it; he was the only USC offensive skill-position player drafted.

2005:

Mike Williams. Picked at 1.10. Obviously a bust.

Matt Cassel (QB). Picked in the seventh round.

That's it.

2006:

Reggie Bush. Picked at 1.02. Has broken RB records. Not yet the second coming of Marshall Faulk, but hardly a bust.

Matt Leinart. Picked at 1.10. Jury's still out.

Lendale White. Picked in the middle of the second round, fifth RB off the board. Finished as the #15 RB in 2007.

Dominique Byrd. Picked at the end of the third round, eighth TE off the board. Drafted by a team that doesn't use the TE as a receiver.

2007:

Dwayne Jarrett. Picked in the middle of the second round, 8th WR off the board. Jury's still out.

Steve Smith. Picked in the middle of the second round, 9th WR off the board. Looks good so far.

So that's it; since Carson Palmer, there have been a total of only nine USC offensive skill-position players drafted. Only three of those were highly drafted. Only one is a clear bust.

So, uh, what was it you were worrying about again?

 

[tombonneau]

Let's take a look at this. We'll eliminate the 2003 draft based on the (unfounded and unwarranted) assertion that the hype in the past four years has been so much more than in the years before.What does that leave us with in terms of offensive skill players? 2004: Keary Colbert. Picked at the end of the second round, 10th WR off the board. Plays on a team with a major stud at WR1, that has ranked in the bottom 10 in the league in pass attempts over the past three years. That's it; he was the only USC offensive skill-position player drafted.2005: Mike Williams. Picked at 1.10. Obviously a bust.Matt Cassel (QB). Picked in the seventh round. That's it.2006:Reggie Bush. Picked at 1.02. Has broken RB records. Not yet the second coming of Marshall Faulk, but hardly a bust.Matt Leinart. Picked at 1.10. Jury's still out.Lendale White. Picked in the middle of the second round, fifth RB off the board. Finished as the #15 RB in 2007.Dominique Byrd. Picked at the end of the third round, eighth TE off the board. Drafted by a team that doesn't use the TE as a receiver. 2007: Dwayne Jarrett. Picked in the middle of the second round, 8th WR off the board. Jury's still out. Steve Smith. Picked in the middle of the second round, 9th WR off the board. Looks good so far.So that's it; since Carson Palmer, there have been a total of only nine USC offensive skill-position players drafted. Only three of those were highly drafted. Only one is a clear bust. So, uh, what was it you were worrying about again?

I'm worried about the maturity of these players coming out of school and the fact that the majority of them do not show the dedication or commitment needed to succeed on the NFL level.Leinart -- Lack of maturity & commitment well-documentedWhite -- Couldn't even make weight as a rookieJarrett -- Already got a DUI under his beltBush -- Dating possibly marrying a woman with a reality show and sex tapeWilliams -- Again, couldn't make weight and refused to put in time needed to get betterThose are USC's five biggest star offensive players, all having demonstrated a clear lack of maturity/commitment as they have entered the league. That's a trend. And if I were in a dynasty league, it's something I'd have to take into consideration.And again, I like USC, just thought I'd point it out.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I'm worried about the maturity of these players coming out of school and the fact that the majority of them do not show the dedication or commitment needed to succeed on the NFL level.

Bush -- Dating possibly marrying a woman with a reality show and sex tape

Seriously?

 

[Chaos Commish]

Sure the jury's out on a bunch of them, but there is a pretty ugly list to consider.

Start with Reggie. He's done okay, but he was supposed to be great. He is very disappointing. No way around that.

Leinart has looked horrible and it's hard to tell how serious he is about this gig. He and Reggie had huge hype and have both fallen well short, jury out or not. Jarrett lost some luster in evaluation, but what was that last season? Very very disappointing regardless of the jury. And remember the hype around Colbert after his big preseason. He's a complete bust since then. Byrd started this and he's out of the league and that little bird that chirped bad things about Davis to Bloom has me expecting Davis to completely bust. Mike Williams will be hard to top, but he'll give it a try. What about Deuce Latui, very disappointing. I read they were looking for a replacement. And Justice has been embarrassed and embarrassing, literally. Eagles fans barely have any hope for the kid. Even Kahlil had a bad season and that same jury is not looking so positive. Fred Matua came out early and I don't even know if he stuck in the league, but he sure isn't doing anything. And it isn't just the offense. Darnell Bing and Frostee Rucker are busts. Trojan players are way overrated because Carroll recruits the biggest HS names he possibly can, and then keeps finding out they're not that great. But here's the secret all the Carroll haters can't swallow. He does the best job of coaching in the NCAA and makes these kids look and play better than they really are.

Go Bruins.

 

[tombonneau]

I'm worried about the maturity of these players coming out of school and the fact that the majority of them do not show the dedication or commitment needed to succeed on the NFL level.

Bush -- Dating possibly marrying a woman with a reality show and sex tape

Seriously?

He's been dating Kim Kardashian for awhile now.http://www.google.com/search?q=kim+kardash...GL_enUS237US237

ETA: If you're not up on her, quick summary is I'm not sure how/why she is famous, but she achieved notoriety when a sex tape emerged of her and her rapper ex-boyfriend. And her & her family now have some reality show on E!. She is also famous for having a giant booty.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Without researching anything... Im gonna guess that the % of those who become stars, those who just stick, and those who bust... is right in line with any average associated with college players in the NFL.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I'm worried about the maturity of these players coming out of school and the fact that the majority of them do not show the dedication or commitment needed to succeed on the NFL level.

Bush -- Dating possibly marrying a woman with a reality show and sex tape

Seriously?

He's been dating Kim Kardashian for awhile now.http://www.google.com/search?q=kim+kardash...GL_enUS237US237

ETA: If you're not up on her, quick summary is I'm not sure how/why she is famous, but she achieved notoriety when a sex tape emerged of her and her rapper ex-boyfriend. And her & her family now have some reality show on E!. She is also famous for having a giant booty.

I know who she is, I just found it shocking that someone would use the fact that an NFL player might marry her as evidence that the player doesn't have the dedication needed to succeed in the NFL.

 

[CalBear]

I'm worried about the maturity of these players coming out of school and the fact that the majority of them do not show the dedication or commitment needed to succeed on the NFL level.Leinart -- Lack of maturity & commitment well-documentedWhite -- Couldn't even make weight as a rookieJarrett -- Already got a DUI under his beltBush -- Dating possibly marrying a woman with a reality show and sex tapeWilliams -- Again, couldn't make weight and refused to put in time needed to get betterThose are USC's five biggest star offensive players, all having demonstrated a clear lack of maturity/commitment as they have entered the league. That's a trend. And if I were in a dynasty league, it's something I'd have to take into consideration.And again, I like USC, just thought I'd point it out.

USC's biggest star offensive player is Carson Palmer, who has shown maturity and commitment. Oh, but he was drafted in 2003, so he doesn't count? And all the defensive and line players don't count, either? And Steve Smith doesn't count either? You're being silly.

 

[tombonneau]

I'm worried about the maturity of these players coming out of school and the fact that the majority of them do not show the dedication or commitment needed to succeed on the NFL level.Leinart -- Lack of maturity & commitment well-documentedWhite -- Couldn't even make weight as a rookieJarrett -- Already got a DUI under his beltBush -- Dating possibly marrying a woman with a reality show and sex tapeWilliams -- Again, couldn't make weight and refused to put in time needed to get betterThose are USC's five biggest star offensive players, all having demonstrated a clear lack of maturity/commitment as they have entered the league. That's a trend. And if I were in a dynasty league, it's something I'd have to take into consideration.And again, I like USC, just thought I'd point it out.

USC's biggest star offensive player is Carson Palmer, who has shown maturity and commitment. Oh, but he was drafted in 2003, so he doesn't count? And all the defensive and line players don't count, either? And Steve Smith doesn't count either? You're being silly.

I've pretty much already stated why I only referenced the offensive stars who are in the spotlight.And when Palmer was at USC, he was not half the star Leinart or Bush were. That's why I've been trying to get at.

 

[tombonneau]

I'm worried about the maturity of these players coming out of school and the fact that the majority of them do not show the dedication or commitment needed to succeed on the NFL level.

Bush -- Dating possibly marrying a woman with a reality show and sex tape

Seriously?

He's been dating Kim Kardashian for awhile now.http://www.google.com/search?q=kim+kardash...GL_enUS237US237

ETA: If you're not up on her, quick summary is I'm not sure how/why she is famous, but she achieved notoriety when a sex tape emerged of her and her rapper ex-boyfriend. And her & her family now have some reality show on E!. She is also famous for having a giant booty.

I know who she is, I just found it shocking that someone would use the fact that an NFL player might marry her as evidence that the player doesn't have the dedication needed to succeed in the NFL.

He hasn't had the dedication so far, and dating a quasi-celebrity socialite and getting caught up in all the events & functions associated with that certainly isn't helping.Though he might be turning the corner: apparently he's finally decided to attend offseason workouts with the team.

Hey, I like Bush a lot and have been one of his biggest defenders. But dating someone like KK and getting caught up in that lifestyle is not conducive to NFL success. I'm not sure how anyone could think otherwise.

 

[CalBear]

And when Palmer was at USC, he was not half the star Leinart or Bush were. That's why I've been trying to get at.

I guess that's why Leinart and Bush were drafted higher than Palmer, and why Leinart won the Heisman and Palmer didn't. Oh, wait...

 

[tombonneau]

And when Palmer was at USC, he was not half the star Leinart or Bush were. That's why I've been trying to get at.

I guess that's why Leinart and Bush were drafted higher than Palmer, and why Leinart won the Heisman and Palmer didn't. Oh, wait...

Palmer wasn't half the celebrity/star Leinart or Bush were when he was at USC and still isn't now. Leinart & Bush had endorsement deals straight out of USC. They have big-time marketing/entertainment agencies working for them. This is what Carson Palmer endorses:

http://www.withleather.com/post.phtml?pk=2881

 

[guru_007]

As a USC fan it does pain me to see their guys being absolute busts in the NFL.

Some guys just don't seem to project as NFL stars. I'm a bit surprised Reggie Bush hasn't been more of an impact player though.

I loved Mike Williams in college. Guy was a beast. But he isn't all that fast, and he was big for a college receiver, but when you get to the NFL, you're not all that big after all.

A lot of it is guys leaving too early. Some of it is guys aren't prototype NFL players. But there have been plenty of great USC players too.

I'm not sure Fred Davis is going to be awesome in the NFL, but he was great in college.

 

[Phurfur]

But then there is Tatupu too. Any more successes?

OJ

 

[GregR_2]

...White and Bush are giving you what they were expected to give you. Although Bush was drafted too high he is a great player to have as a compliment to a pounder and as a return guy. He gives you flexibility to split him out wide and get him into space....

Bush was viewed by many as the highest graded RB to ever come into the draft. He's not even close to giving what was expected.

 

[sholditch]

These guys go their entire college careers playing cream-puff schedules that normally include 1-2 decent defenses a year, usually split apart by several weeks. Thus, their college numbers are inflated, they benefit from the unreal hype you have already mentioned, and therefore usually go higher than they deserve. So they shouldn't need any warning labels. Scouts should be able to figure that out.

ETA: Fatdale has done pretty well for a 2nd-rounder.

However, it should be noted that of that awesome TE class, none have panned out.

 

[BoltBacker]

2004: Keary Colbert. Picked at the end of the second round, 10th WR off the board. Plays on a team with a major stud at WR1, that has ranked in the bottom 10 in the league in pass attempts over the past three years. That's it; he was the only USC offensive skill-position player drafted.2005: Mike Williams. Picked at 1.10. Obviously a bust.Matt Cassel (QB). Picked in the seventh round. That's it.2006:Reggie Bush. Picked at 1.02. Has broken RB records. Not yet the second coming of Marshall Faulk, but hardly a bust.Matt Leinart. Picked at 1.10. Jury's still out.Lendale White. Picked in the middle of the second round, fifth RB off the board. Finished as the #15 RB in 2007.Dominique Byrd. Picked at the end of the third round, eighth TE off the board. Drafted by a team that doesn't use the TE as a receiver. 2007: Dwayne Jarrett. Picked in the middle of the second round, 8th WR off the board. Jury's still out. Steve Smith. Picked in the middle of the second round, 9th WR off the board. Looks good so far.

I think your being a little generous playing the "Jury's still out" card.Jarrett hasn't shown anything.Leinart has been pretty bad despite being surrounded by a lot of talent.As far as White finishing #15, that comes with some pretty big asterisks. He certainly hasn't played up to his draft position. For that matter, of all the guys you've listed I'd say Steve Smith and Cassell are the only guys that have lived up to their draft position, but that's because expectations for a 7th round pick are the player will get cut.

 

[BoltBacker]

Don't forget Winston Justice, Deuce Lutui, Jacob Rogers and Keary Colbert.

Good post.I remember being pissed the Chargers passed on both those guys in their drafts. In AJ we trust.

 

[TitusIII]

The boosters at USC ruin these kids before they hit the NFL...

 

[CalBear]

As far as White finishing #15, that comes with some pretty big asterisks. He certainly hasn't played up to his draft position. For that matter, of all the guys you've listed I'd say Steve Smith and Cassell are the only guys that have lived up to their draft position, but that's because expectations for a 7th round pick are the player will get cut.

What would you expect for the production of the fifth RB taken in a draft, in the middle of the second round? Of the four RBs taken ahead of him, only one has a 1000-yard rushing season (Addai).

 

[BoltBacker]

As far as White finishing #15, that comes with some pretty big asterisks. He certainly hasn't played up to his draft position. For that matter, of all the guys you've listed I'd say Steve Smith and Cassell are the only guys that have lived up to their draft position, but that's because expectations for a 7th round pick are the player will get cut.

What would you expect for the production of the fifth RB taken in a draft, in the middle of the second round? Of the four RBs taken ahead of him, only one has a 1000-yard rushing season (Addai).

3.8 y/c?

 

[Doug Drinen]

Just for the record....

LenDale White was drafted #45. Between 1980 and 2006, there were 83 backs drafted between #30 and #60. Of those 83 backs, LenDale ranks 20th in terms of first-two-years rushing yardage total. Heck, even if he doesn't gain another yard, he'd be 48th of the 83.

I understand that he's fat. But by any objective standard, he has at least met the expectations of his draft position.

 

[BoltBacker]

Just for the record....LenDale White was drafted #45. Between 1980 and 2006, there were 83 backs drafted between #30 and #60. Of those 83 backs, LenDale ranks 20th in terms of first-two-years rushing yardage total. I understand that he's fat. But by any objective standard, he has at least met the expectations of his draft position.

So his success can be measured simply by yardage total? It doesn't matter in any way shape or form that he needed 300+ carries to muster 7 TD's behind a good OL?

 

[Chase Stuart]

Just for the record....LenDale White was drafted #45. Between 1980 and 2006, there were 83 backs drafted between #30 and #60. Of those 83 backs, LenDale ranks 20th in terms of first-two-years rushing yardage total. I understand that he's fat. But by any objective standard, he has at least met the expectations of his draft position.

But where would he rank in rushing yards over 3.0 YPC?

 

[Doug Drinen]

So his success can be measured simply by yardage total? It doesn't matter in any way shape or form that he needed 300+ carries to muster 7 TD's behind a good OL?

Well, he had more TDs than 59 of the 83 backs. Hey, I'm not saying LenDale is great. I'm just saying the bar is lower than you guys seem to think for a mid-2nd round pick. When your competition includes Jermaine Fazande and Byron Hanspard and Greg Jones and Chuck Levy and Marion Barber's dad and Mike Cloud and Eric Ball and Eric Shelton and the like, 7 TDs on 300 carries starts to look pretty darn OK.

 

[Doug Drinen]

Just for the record....LenDale White was drafted #45. Between 1980 and 2006, there were 83 backs drafted between #30 and #60. Of those 83 backs, LenDale ranks 20th in terms of first-two-years rushing yardage total. I understand that he's fat. But by any objective standard, he has at least met the expectations of his draft position.

But where would he rank in rushing yards over 3.0 YPC?

28th.

 

[BoltBacker]

So his success can be measured simply by yardage total? It doesn't matter in any way shape or form that he needed 300+ carries to muster 7 TD's behind a good OL?

Well, he had more TDs than 59 of the 83 backs.

Where does he rank in terms of # of carries?

 

[tombonneau]

Hey, I'm not saying LenDale is great. I'm just saying the bar is lower than you guys seem to think for a mid-2nd round pick.

I'd guess a lot of the disappointment surrounded Lendale is that he was originally touted as a first round pick but slipped, yet people's expectations are still based on the original assessment of him being a first round talent with character/commitment concerns that pushed him into the second.i.e. Based on football skills alone, he was assessed a first round grade, but character flaws of his own doing caused him to drop. Thus, he should be judged as a first rounder would produce since those are the physical skills, even though he was a second rounder.Anyway, this makes a lot more sense in my head ....

 

[BoltBacker]

Just for the record....LenDale White was drafted #45. Between 1980 and 2006, there were 83 backs drafted between #30 and #60. Of those 83 backs, LenDale ranks 20th in terms of first-two-years rushing yardage total. I understand that he's fat. But by any objective standard, he has at least met the expectations of his draft position.

But where would he rank in rushing yards over 3.0 YPC?

28th.

I have to admit I am surprised by that. It's hard to believe that 55 backs drafted in the top half of the draft only had a 3.6y/c or less. What a crap shoot. Do those include FB's? I'm really surprised by that.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Just for the record....LenDale White was drafted #45. Between 1980 and 2006, there were 83 backs drafted between #30 and #60. Of those 83 backs, LenDale ranks 20th in terms of first-two-years rushing yardage total. I understand that he's fat. But by any objective standard, he has at least met the expectations of his draft position.

But where would he rank in rushing yards over 3.0 YPC?

28th.

I have to admit I am surprised by that. It's hard to believe that 55 backs drafted in the top half of the draft only had a 3.6y/c or less. What a crap shoot. Do those include FB's? I'm really surprised by that.

That's not what Yards over 3.0 is.

 

[shader]

Here is my analysis of the situation. USC has a team full of four and five star recuits. A three star-type recruit will never see the playing field for the Trojans. Therefore, their overall talent is head and shoulders above the rest of the Pac-10. Where in the East, it's a dogfight for recruits, USC has had (since Carroll has been there) basically their pick of the best talent in the West. Heck, this year they already have something like 4 five star and 4 four star recruits.

So with that high of a collegiate talent level, all these individual guys get great matchups. Whereas a guy like Adrian Peterson gets all the attention at Oklahoma, or Larry Fitzgerald at Pittsburgh, Calvin Johnson at GTech, etc, at USC they are all stars, so I think a guy can put up huge numbers because he's surrounded by great talent and the defense don't know where to begin to stop the offense.

So on an individual level, there's still only a few players drafted at each position every year that turn into legitimate stars. And to expect that one team is going to produce a huge number of star NFL players isn't consistent with history.

All great college dynasties usually have a high number of busts. I think of all the Tennessee receivers that busted in the early 90's, all the Florida State players that did nothing, you could go on and on.

I think the biggest thing is that these guys are a tad overrated. We expect them to dominate in the same fashion that they did at USC, and that's simply not going to happen, unless they happen to fall on a loaded offense. For instance, Reggie Bush would be dominating if he played for Indianapolis. Can you imagine the numbers he would put up?

And it's not as if Bush and Lendale haven't been good.

They've been solid. Maybe haven't lived up to the hype, but still solid NFL players.

I still think Reggie Bush can be a lethal weapon and a very important part of the offense for New Orleans. But to expect him to run through the NFL like he did in college isn't very reasonable, and is a product of the high expectations put on USC players, imo. If Bush isn't at USC, he probably doesn't have quite the same stats, and he certainly isn't drafted in the top five. He's probably a 2nd rounder or late 1st.

 

[BoltBacker]

Just for the record....LenDale White was drafted #45. Between 1980 and 2006, there were 83 backs drafted between #30 and #60. Of those 83 backs, LenDale ranks 20th in terms of first-two-years rushing yardage total. I understand that he's fat. But by any objective standard, he has at least met the expectations of his draft position.

But where would he rank in rushing yards over 3.0 YPC?

28th.

I have to admit I am surprised by that. It's hard to believe that 55 backs drafted in the top half of the draft only had a 3.6y/c or less. What a crap shoot. Do those include FB's? I'm really surprised by that.

That's not what Yards over 3.0 is.

Ah, sorry. Guess I'm not sure what you're talking about then.

 

[Doug Drinen]

So his success can be measured simply by yardage total? It doesn't matter in any way shape or form that he needed 300+ carries to muster 7 TD's behind a good OL?

Well, he had more TDs than 59 of the 83 backs.

Where does he rank in terms of # of carries?

16th of the 83.I guess you're going to say that lots of those backs would have had stats as good as LenDale's if given the carries. To which I'll reply that, at least in most of their cases, there is probably a reason they didn't get the carries.

I have no idea how I just became a LenDale sympathizer. I basically agree with you that, at this point, he looks like a pretty mediocre back. Yes. I agree. Mainly what he accomplished last year was not being a complete washout when given a chance. My only point is: pretty mediocre and not a complete washout is better than a typical mid-2nd-round RB.

How about this one: of backs drafted #30 through #60, the median career high rushing yardage season is 629 yards. In other words, a back drafted in that range has worse than a 50/50 shot of ever rushing for 700 yards in a single season.

 

[tombonneau]

Here is my analysis of the situation. USC has a team full of four and five star recuits. A three star-type recruit will never see the playing field for the Trojans. Therefore, their overall talent is head and shoulders above the rest of the Pac-10. Where in the East, it's a dogfight for recruits, USC has had (since Carroll has been there) basically their pick of the best talent in the West. Heck, this year they already have something like 4 five star and 4 four star recruits.So with that high of a collegiate talent level, all these individual guys get great matchups. Whereas a guy like Adrian Peterson gets all the attention at Oklahoma, or Larry Fitzgerald at Pittsburgh, Calvin Johnson at GTech, etc, at USC they are all stars, so I think a guy can put up huge numbers because he's surrounded by great talent and the defense don't know where to begin to stop the offense.So on an individual level, there's still only a few players drafted at each position every year that turn into legitimate stars. And to expect that one team is going to produce a huge number of star NFL players isn't consistent with history.All great college dynasties usually have a high number of busts. I think of all the Tennessee receivers that busted in the early 90's, all the Florida State players that did nothing, you could go on and on.I think the biggest thing is that these guys are a tad overrated. We expect them to dominate in the same fashion that they did at USC, and that's simply not going to happen, unless they happen to fall on a loaded offense. For instance, Reggie Bush would be dominating if he played for Indianapolis. Can you imagine the numbers he would put up? And it's not as if Bush and Lendale haven't been good.They've been solid. Maybe haven't lived up to the hype, but still solid NFL players. I still think Reggie Bush can be a lethal weapon and a very important part of the offense for New Orleans. But to expect him to run through the NFL like he did in college isn't very reasonable, and is a product of the high expectations put on USC players, imo. If Bush isn't at USC, he probably doesn't have quite the same stats, and he certainly isn't drafted in the top five. He's probably a 2nd rounder or late 1st.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Just for the record....LenDale White was drafted #45. Between 1980 and 2006, there were 83 backs drafted between #30 and #60. Of those 83 backs, LenDale ranks 20th in terms of first-two-years rushing yardage total. I understand that he's fat. But by any objective standard, he has at least met the expectations of his draft position.

But where would he rank in rushing yards over 3.0 YPC?

28th.

Actually, I've got him 27th, but thanks for doing that ASAP for me.Either way, I think finishing 28th is pretty clear evidence that fat or not, he's been useful.Rushing yards over 3.0 YPC is defined as

Rushing Yards - (Carries *3.0)

Basically, if you have a three yard carry, you gain zero rushing yards over three. If you have a four yard carry, you get one yard. A ten yard carry, 7 yards. I think it's a neat little stat.

 

[BoltBacker]

So his success can be measured simply by yardage total? It doesn't matter in any way shape or form that he needed 300+ carries to muster 7 TD's behind a good OL?

Well, he had more TDs than 59 of the 83 backs.

Where does he rank in terms of # of carries?

16th of the 83.I guess you're going to say that lots of those backs would have had stats as good as LenDale's if given the carries. To which I'll reply that, at least in most of their cases, there is probably a reason they didn't get the carries.

To which I'll reply- I think a lot of those guys may have had some competition. Chris Brown was the only RB in TEN with a pulse last season and we're all familiar with that situation from last season(begs and begs to get out of TEN only to turn around and resign with the Titans). White got all those carries more or less because he was better than Chris Henry. If both White and Henry weren't a disappointment I find it hard to believe they'd spend their third first-day pick in the draft in a row on another RB.