TE Byrd Cut (1 Viewer)

[NoFBinLA]

Just saw Rams cut TE Byrd. I live out in LA and follow the Trojans a bit ... and within the past few years, about every decent-rated offensive prospect not named Steve Smith has been a huge disappointment.

At what point should this be declared a trend and you should attach a huge warning label on all USC offensive prospects?

Cowherd was talking about this the other day, and I thought he was spot on with his theory that USC offensive guys are treated like NFL stars when they are in college. For one reason or another, I think this leads to a sense of entitlement and that guys think they can just coast by on talent. Works fine in college, not so much in the NFL.

Like I said, I'm not a USC hater, I actually like the team, but at some point you have to recognize that that program is doing something wrong in the way they are grooming their offensive star players ... because I think there's been too many underperformers -- Bush, Leinart, White, Jarrett, Williams, Byrd -- for it to be dismissed.

You do realize that Steve Smith of USC is the guy on the Giants, not Steve Smith of the Panthers, right?

The only good player from USC that you are mentioning, actually went to Utah.

So, for recent drafts, including many 1st/2nd rounders, the only 2 decent people mentioned are either not from USC and or a Linebacker. Sure Reggie Bush isn't an abysmal failure like others, but to be honest, that is pitiful for how high all these guys got drafted because they got the benefit of being from a "big time" school.

The Steve Smith of the Giants did well in the playoffs, so I think the jury is still out there.

 

[NoFBinLA]

So his success can be measured simply by yardage total? It doesn't matter in any way shape or form that he needed 300+ carries to muster 7 TD's behind a good OL?

Well, he had more TDs than 59 of the 83 backs.

Where does he rank in terms of # of carries?

16th of the 83.I guess you're going to say that lots of those backs would have had stats as good as LenDale's if given the carries. To which I'll reply that, at least in most of their cases, there is probably a reason they didn't get the carries.

To which I'll reply- I think a lot of those guys may have had some competition. Chris Brown was the only RB in TEN with a pulse last season and we're all familiar with that situation from last season(begs and begs to get out of TEN only to turn around and resign with the Titans). White got all those carries more or less because he was better than Chris Henry. If both White and Henry weren't a disappointment I find it hard to believe they'd spend their third first-day pick in the draft in a row on another RB.

Except for Johnson is clearly a passing down target and white never has been.Also - and this is just me - when the d is stacking to stop the run b/c there are no receivers, 1100 yards and 7 TDs is pretty decent.I'm not saying he isn't on a razor thin edge with a deep need for improvement - but given the NFL trend of two back systems, that pick (Johnson) says a helluva lot more about Henry than it does White.

 

[CalBear]

- I think a lot of those guys may have had some competition. Chris Brown was the only RB in TEN with a pulse last season and we're all familiar with that situation from last season(begs and begs to get out of TEN only to turn around and resign with the Titans). White got all those carries more or less because he was better than Chris Henry. If both White and Henry weren't a disappointment I find it hard to believe they'd spend their third first-day pick in the draft in a row on another RB.

Look, maybe some names will help make the point. Second round RBs since 2000:2005:

JJ Arrington

Eric Shelton

2004:

Julius Jones

Greg Jones

Tatum Bell

2003 (none)

2002:

Deshaun Foster

Clinton Portis

Maurice Morris

Ladell Betts

2001:

Anthony Thomas

Lamont Jordan

Travis Henry

2000 (none)

So from 2000-2005, there were 12 RBs selected in the second round. Only two of them (Portis and Henry) were clear successes. Four others (Thomas, Jordan, Betts, J.Jones) have had one 1000-yard season (and they're all older than White and none of them has a starting job anymore). The other six have been outperformed by White.

I don't think there's any way you can say White hasn't performed up to the level of a second-round running back. Maybe it's your expectations that need adjusting.

 

[tombonneau]

Looks like Fred "Rumpelstiltskin" Davis is continuing the trend ...

 

[SayWhat?]

Looks like Fred "Rumpelstiltskin" Davis is continuing the trend ...

You mean Rip Van Winkle?

 

[John Mamula]

Let's take a look at this. We'll eliminate the 2003 draft based on the (unfounded and unwarranted) assertion that the hype in the past four years has been so much more than in the years before.What does that leave us with in terms of offensive skill players? 2004: Keary Colbert. Picked at the end of the second round, 10th WR off the board. Plays on a team with a major stud at WR1, that has ranked in the bottom 10 in the league in pass attempts over the past three years. That's it; he was the only USC offensive skill-position player drafted.2005: Mike Williams. Picked at 1.10. Obviously a bust.Matt Cassel (QB). Picked in the seventh round. That's it.2006:Reggie Bush. Picked at 1.02. Has broken RB records. Not yet the second coming of Marshall Faulk, but hardly a bust.Matt Leinart. Picked at 1.10. Jury's still out.Lendale White. Picked in the middle of the second round, fifth RB off the board. Finished as the #15 RB in 2007.Dominique Byrd. Picked at the end of the third round, eighth TE off the board. Drafted by a team that doesn't use the TE as a receiver. 2007: Dwayne Jarrett. Picked in the middle of the second round, 8th WR off the board. Jury's still out. Steve Smith. Picked in the middle of the second round, 9th WR off the board. Looks good so far.So that's it; since Carson Palmer, there have been a total of only nine USC offensive skill-position players drafted. Only three of those were highly drafted. Only one is a clear bust. So, uh, what was it you were worrying about again?

In 3 years from now we'll know more about these classes. They may all be busts. Maybe only half will. Maybe only a couple.But whatever the trend is, it is likely just about the same as players drafted at similar draft slots from any school.Many very talented college players don't have success in the NFL. Not sure why this is news.

 

[John Mamula]

I'm worried about the maturity of these players coming out of school and the fact that the majority of them do not show the dedication or commitment needed to succeed on the NFL level.

Bush -- Dating possibly marrying a woman with a reality show and sex tape

Seriously?

He's been dating Kim Kardashian for awhile now.http://www.google.com/search?q=kim+kardash...GL_enUS237US237

ETA: If you're not up on her, quick summary is I'm not sure how/why she is famous, but she achieved notoriety when a sex tape emerged of her and her rapper ex-boyfriend. And her & her family now have some reality show on E!. She is also famous for having a giant booty.

I know who she is, I just found it shocking that someone would use the fact that an NFL player might marry her as evidence that the player doesn't have the dedication needed to succeed in the NFL.

tom is really grasping at straws here.

also lol at pointing out that white didnt make weight when he ended up being the #15 RB. that's a success.

i'd also like to see where byrd lands. he has a lot of talent and if picked up by a team that actually uses a TE downfield, could be an interesting match.

 

[tombonneau]

Looks like Fred "Rumpelstiltskin" Davis is continuing the trend ...

You mean Rip Van Winkle?

Hahaha. Oops. I probably shouldn't post when I'm only halfway through my morning coffee ...

 

[John Mamula]

I'm worried about the maturity of these players coming out of school and the fact that the majority of them do not show the dedication or commitment needed to succeed on the NFL level.Leinart -- Lack of maturity & commitment well-documentedWhite -- Couldn't even make weight as a rookieJarrett -- Already got a DUI under his beltBush -- Dating possibly marrying a woman with a reality show and sex tapeWilliams -- Again, couldn't make weight and refused to put in time needed to get betterThose are USC's five biggest star offensive players, all having demonstrated a clear lack of maturity/commitment as they have entered the league. That's a trend. And if I were in a dynasty league, it's something I'd have to take into consideration.And again, I like USC, just thought I'd point it out.

USC's biggest star offensive player is Carson Palmer, who has shown maturity and commitment. Oh, but he was drafted in 2003, so he doesn't count? And all the defensive and line players don't count, either? And Steve Smith doesn't count either? You're being silly.

I've pretty much already stated why I only referenced the offensive stars who are in the spotlight.And when Palmer was at USC, he was not half the star Leinart or Bush were. That's why I've been trying to get at.

this is completely false.he was hyped up more than either...he just had a horrendous coach his first few years and not a lot of talent around him.Bush was one of a handful of stud RBs coming into the system (among White and Dennis) and many thought Leinart wouldn't even beat out Cassel for the starting job.when there was finally talent around him and they won the orange bowl and he won the heisman in his senior year he had just as much hype.this is D- work here.

 

[redman]

I'm worried about the maturity of these players coming out of school and the fact that the majority of them do not show the dedication or commitment needed to succeed on the NFL level.Leinart -- Lack of maturity & commitment well-documentedWhite -- Couldn't even make weight as a rookieJarrett -- Already got a DUI under his beltBush -- Dating possibly marrying a woman with a reality show and sex tapeWilliams -- Again, couldn't make weight and refused to put in time needed to get betterThose are USC's five biggest star offensive players, all having demonstrated a clear lack of maturity/commitment as they have entered the league. That's a trend. And if I were in a dynasty league, it's something I'd have to take into consideration.And again, I like USC, just thought I'd point it out.

USC's biggest star offensive player is Carson Palmer, who has shown maturity and commitment. Oh, but he was drafted in 2003, so he doesn't count? And all the defensive and line players don't count, either? And Steve Smith doesn't count either? You're being silly.

I've pretty much already stated why I only referenced the offensive stars who are in the spotlight.And when Palmer was at USC, he was not half the star Leinart or Bush were. That's why I've been trying to get at.

this is completely false.he was hyped up more than either...he just had a horrendous coach his first few years and not a lot of talent around him.Bush was one of a handful of stud RBs coming into the system (among White and Dennis) and many thought Leinart wouldn't even beat out Cassel for the starting job.when there was finally talent around him and they won the orange bowl and he won the heisman in his senior year he had just as much hype.this is D- work here.

I don't completely agree with you here. Palmer was largely considered an underachiever until his senior season when he won the Heisman. He was a four-year starter, who began on some abysmal Paul Hackett teams, but he was not a star until his senior year. Leinart certainly came from nowhere, but was hugely successful from the start - remember that he was a final Vince Young drive away from being the only college QB to lead a team to three consecutive national championships. He was huge for a number of years at USC, and Bush was too, right along with him. I don't know what all this means as far as their NFL production, but there's no doubt in my mind as a LA local and a USC fan that there was a much different vibe around the program when Palmer led it than when Leinart led it.

 

[tombonneau]

I'm worried about the maturity of these players coming out of school and the fact that the majority of them do not show the dedication or commitment needed to succeed on the NFL level.Leinart -- Lack of maturity & commitment well-documentedWhite -- Couldn't even make weight as a rookieJarrett -- Already got a DUI under his beltBush -- Dating possibly marrying a woman with a reality show and sex tapeWilliams -- Again, couldn't make weight and refused to put in time needed to get betterThose are USC's five biggest star offensive players, all having demonstrated a clear lack of maturity/commitment as they have entered the league. That's a trend. And if I were in a dynasty league, it's something I'd have to take into consideration.And again, I like USC, just thought I'd point it out.

USC's biggest star offensive player is Carson Palmer, who has shown maturity and commitment. Oh, but he was drafted in 2003, so he doesn't count? And all the defensive and line players don't count, either? And Steve Smith doesn't count either? You're being silly.

I've pretty much already stated why I only referenced the offensive stars who are in the spotlight.And when Palmer was at USC, he was not half the star Leinart or Bush were. That's why I've been trying to get at.

this is completely false.he was hyped up more than either...he just had a horrendous coach his first few years and not a lot of talent around him.Bush was one of a handful of stud RBs coming into the system (among White and Dennis) and many thought Leinart wouldn't even beat out Cassel for the starting job.when there was finally talent around him and they won the orange bowl and he won the heisman in his senior year he had just as much hype.this is D- work here.

I'm not talking about Palmer being hyped as a recruit or prospect. I'm taking about their Q rating, their actual popularity within the community & culture. To that end, Bush & Leinart were hugely more popular in college than Palmer was. Palmer didn't have paparazzi following him around as a college player. Bush & Leinart did. They were as close to NFL superstars as you can get while in college.That's my point. And again, I like USC and Bush & Leinart. It just looks at this point that something is going on with these offensive stars while at USC that they don't seem as prepared for the NFL as other big time university star players.

 

[CalBear]

I'm not talking about Palmer being hyped as a recruit or prospect. I'm taking about their Q rating, their actual popularity within the community & culture. To that end, Bush & Leinart were hugely more popular in college than Palmer was. Palmer didn't have paparazzi following him around as a college player. Bush & Leinart did. They were as close to NFL superstars as you can get while in college.That's my point.

And you think that's also true of Dominque Byrd? Your argument has no coherence.

 

[tombonneau]

I'm not talking about Palmer being hyped as a recruit or prospect. I'm taking about their Q rating, their actual popularity within the community & culture. To that end, Bush & Leinart were hugely more popular in college than Palmer was. Palmer didn't have paparazzi following him around as a college player. Bush & Leinart did. They were as close to NFL superstars as you can get while in college.That's my point.

And you think that's also true of Dominque Byrd? Your argument has no coherence.

Obviously not to that extent, but those other offensive skill players are still part of that culture and limelight. Look, I don't claim to know everything. But I know what I see. And what I see is offensive player after offensive player from USC entering the NFL without having the work ethic or dedication needed to succeed.I don't know why that is, all I know is that it is clearly happening.

 

[NoFBinLA]

I don't know what all this means as far as their NFL production, but there's no doubt in my mind as a LA local and a USC fan that there was a much different vibe around the program when Palmer led it than when Leinart led it.

Seconded, as another local and USC guy. With Carson there, the program was rising. With Leinart and Bush the program was at the height of it's popularity. People knew who they were in a way they didn't with Palmer.I will also say that I have gotten a very different vibe from the defensive players - even guys like Ellis and Rivers who were pretty hyped up - than the offensive guys.Might be just a different mindset, might be Norton's influence -I dunno. I just think that Matty L and Bush came out of college with a certain outlook (you can add MWilliams and a few others to that list) that wasn't there with Palmer.Now, that doesn't mean everything - I think Bush seems to have begun to get his act together (the dating Kardasian thing doesn't mean a damned thing one way or another to me), Jarrett just got his wake up call and I'm hoping Leinart did too.But the difference between Palmer's days and the last three years or so are pretty significant.

 

[H.K.]

Dwayne Jarrett. Picked in the middle of the second round, 8th WR off the board. Jury's still out.

Jarrett only appeared in six games and did virtually nothing in them as a rookie, and then he had a DUI to top it off. One of his big problems was not putting in the effort required to learn the playbook or study film, hence the team had no confidence in making him active on game days. Keep in mind he was drafted with the intention of starting opposite Smith....yet the Panthers have added Muhammad and Hackett this off-season. The jury may still be out, but the evidence isn't helping his case.

 

[Delusions Of Adequacy]

But then there is Tatupu too. Any more successes?

I think he said offensive players so they could avoid talking about Tatupu, PalomaloAlthough I think Palmer turned out ok.White and Bush are giving you what they were expected to give you. Although Bush was drafted too high he is a great player to have as a compliment to a pounder and as a return guy. He gives you flexibility to split him out wide and get him into space.White is a pounder. 1000 yards and a pile of dust.The WRs have been busts, led by williams who screwed himself following clarette out and not playing for a year. Leinert still has a chance to turn it all around.

I don't remember anybody saying that Bush was drafted too high at the time. I only remember people giving Houston grief because they didn't draft him #1. Turns out they were the smart ones.The consensus at the time of the draft was that Reggie Bush was the 2nd coming of Gale Sayers. He's not.

 

[redman]

The consensus at the time of the draft was that Reggie Bush was the 2nd coming of Gale Sayers. He's not.

XThere was no such consensus. Sure some people thought that about him, and others figured his ceiling was there, but there were plenty of doubts expressed about him too. Example.

 

[bjabrad]

I'm worried about the maturity of these players coming out of school and the fact that the majority of them do not show the dedication or commitment needed to succeed on the NFL level.

Bush -- Dating possibly marrying a woman with a reality show and sex tape

Seriously?

He's been dating Kim Kardashian for awhile now.http://www.google.com/search?q=kim+kardash...GL_enUS237US237

ETA: If you're not up on her, quick summary is I'm not sure how/why she is famous, but she achieved notoriety when a sex tape emerged of her and her rapper ex-boyfriend. And her & her family now have some reality show on E!. She is also famous for having a giant booty.

I know who she is, I just found it shocking that someone would use the fact that an NFL player might marry her as evidence that the player doesn't have the dedication needed to succeed in the NFL.

I just assumed you were looking for the sex tapes.We need links.

 

[John Mamula]

I don't completely agree with you here. Palmer was largely considered an underachiever until his senior season when he won the Heisman. He was a four-year starter, who began on some abysmal Paul Hackett teams, but he was not a star until his senior year. Leinart certainly came from nowhere, but was hugely successful from the start - remember that he was a final Vince Young drive away from being the only college QB to lead a team to three consecutive national championships. He was huge for a number of years at USC, and Bush was too, right along with him. I don't know what all this means as far as their NFL production, but there's no doubt in my mind as a LA local and a USC fan that there was a much different vibe around the program when Palmer led it than when Leinart led it.

You're right he was an underachiever. But that is because he was so hyped (how can you underachieve if you're not hyped). Palmer was successful his senior year with Carroll's second year where they had put a lot of pieces in place. Leinart was so successful early because of the team around him.I agree there was a very different vibe around the team for all of Leinart's career because Carroll had already put the pieces in place. They won the Pac 10 every year Leinart was there and went 3-1 in BCS Bowls with 2 titles. But as far as individual player hype, Palmer was as hyped up as anyone.

 

[John Mamula]

And again, I like USC and Bush & Leinart. It just looks at this point that something is going on with these offensive stars while at USC that they don't seem as prepared for the NFL as other big time university star players.

I guess I just don't see the leap. We're only a couple years into their careers. In all likelihood, they won't be Montana and Payton, but won't be Leaf and Carter either. Just two solid players in the NFL who play for 8 years. Like most draft picks.