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TE Dynasty Rankings Breakdown (1 Viewer)

Sigmund Bloom

Footballguy
Staff
Note: This is my first attempt at cinching up my offseason dynasty rankings (which will get blown up by FA and the draft) - the who, where and why of them - please feel free to offer feedback, differing opinions - the point is to stimulate discussion.

Tier 1: Dallas Clark, Antonio Gates, Jason Witten - Clark is the oldest, but he's still #1 because he is showing no signs of slowing down, and he plays the most WR-like role in the best passing offense. Gates gets the slight edge over Witten because he is more of a red zone target, but they are virtually indistinguishable in PPR leagues. These are the guys who are major pieces of good passing games with top notch QBs at the helm. All have at least 2-3 good years left. The best of the best.

Tier 2: Vernon Davis, Jermichael Finley - Davis could easily be in Tier 1 by himself by mid-season, but we need to see him do it for more than one year before we get out the anointing oils (apologies to Bill Parcells). Finley has looked elite for an even shorter period of time, but he has barely scratched the surface of his potential (he turns 23 in March!), and he is in a prolific passing attack with a QB who was really leaning on him at year's end. The only thing keeping these guys out of Tier 1 is a longer track record of elite production.

Tier 3: Kellen Winslow, Zach Miller (OAK) - These guys have the skills to be Tier 1 TEs, but they are mired in remedial passing attacks. Both are great buy lows on the chance that their QBs get things together in 2010, because they are both better pass catchers than any WR on the roster.

Tier 4: Brent Celek, Chris Cooley, Heath Miller, Greg Olsen, Dustin Keller, John Carlson - All of these guys have the ability to be among the best non-elite options because of top talent or situation, but they are also otherwise held back because those with the top situations don't have top pass-catching talent, and vice versa. Celek seems to be the most stable because both McNabb and Kolb love throwing to him, and DeSean Jackson will keep that middle open for Celek. Cooley is a little overrated as he is likely past his peak and Fred Davis emerged as a viable TE target in his own right after Cooley went down. Heath Miller probably produced at his ceiling last year, and Greg Olsen near his floor, but both are likely to stay near those outer reaches of their production ranges - Pittsburgh's strength is still the pass, and Mike Martz is unkind to TEs. A patient dynasty owner could get Olsen cheap now, maybe even cheaper in September if his early numbers are as bad as Vernon Davis's were under Martz in SF. Keller is talented enough to be a lot higher on this list, but his role is limited by a quality pair of WRs and a run-first offense. Carlson may be on the best buy low options at this position. He and the Seahawks slogged through a horrible 2009, and he still managed to match his quality rookie year numbers. The long-term QB situation in Seattle is murky, but so is the WR situation, so Carlson could easily emerge as one of those TEs who is a primary target in his team's passing game.



Tony Gonzalez: In a tier all his own, and worth overpaying for if you are in a win now mode and don't have a top 10 TE or the patience to wait for Olsen/Keller/Carlson to fulfill their potential. He has two years left in the league, tops, and his age started to slightly show last year.

Tier 5: Visanthe Shiancoe, Owen Daniels: Shiancoe could be top 10 again next year if Brett Favre returns, but when Favre leaves, he drops to the backup fantasy TE ranks. A good one-year buy if you feel sure Favre will return and you need help at TE, especially in non-PPR leagues. Daniels is dicey because he lacks a long term deal, and while he was perfect for Houston's offense, he might not be as productive in another scheme. James Casey could also cut into his production if Daniels stays in Houston. Daniels is a great "put your money where your mouth is" player - if you believe in him, the price will never be lower than it is right now.

Tier 6: Jared Cook, Brandon Pettigrew - This is the swing for the fences tier. Cook has MORE physical talent than Finley if you can believe it (although he's not quite as natural a pass catcher) - top 5 is within his reach and a banged-up ankle made his rookie year look like a bust. Pettigrew has a torn ACL, but it did appear that he had receiving ability Oklahoma State criminally underutilized, and Matthew Stafford was relying on him more right before the injury. Pettigrew also has a chance to be very prominent in the Lions passing game with no #2 WR to speak of and defenses willing to triple cover Calvin Johnson.

Tier 7: Fred Davis, Kevin Boss, Tony Scheffler - Im afraid these guys have limited upside and just aren't part of the recipe of a winning fantasy team. Both are better in non-PPR as they'll never stretch the field, but they are decent red zone options. Davis has to share with Cooley and Boss has to share with a plethora of talented young wideouts. Neither one is a special talent when it comes to ripping the seams or making athletic catches. Give Davis a bump if Campbell catches on in Washington this year because the QB leaned on Davis in the red zone. Scheffler doesn't seem to fit in what Josh McDaniels is doing, and his game is so one-dimensional that you have to wonder if anyone is going to go out of their way to make him a big part of their passing game - but Scheffler is still talented enough to merit a spot just outside of the top 20.

Tier 8: Shawn Nelson, Zach Miller (JAX), James Casey, Chase Coffman, Travis Beckum, Evan Moore - The prospect tier. Ranking them is a matter of taste, here's my justification for the current order, which can change in my mind without much effort: Nelson is a natural passcatcher and the Bills need someone to work the middle of the field somethin' fierce. Miller showed great speed and athleticism in a limited role, as he learns the position he should do more, albeit in a limited passing game. I still believe in Casey, but I worry about the lack of clarity on his true home position and a lack of impact after Daniels went down. Coffman's foot still wasn't right and he is behind the curve, although opportunity is there as the Bengals don't have a true #2 WR. Beckum has been left in the dust by the Giants WRs and Kevin Boss isn't going anywhere. Moore has great ball skills, but he is in a terrible offense and his opportunity might have been by default, not earned (see also: Zach Hilton). All are worth 3rd round rookie picks from this year.

Tier 9: Jeremy Shockey, Todd Heap - These guys are the bargain basement version of Gonzo. One or two years of shelf life and decent production left.

Worth a Roster Spot in Deep Leagues: Marcedes Lewis (more talented that #s, but inconsistent and used a lot to block), David Thomas (in a sick pass offense, some chemistry with Brees, but very limited talent), Martellus Bennett (top 10 physical talent, but missed big opportunity and not a natural receiver), Dante Rosario (could be very productive on another team if he could stay healthy, better receiver than many ahead of him on this list), Cornelius Ingram (big-time talent, but tore same ACL twice), Anthony Fasano (little upside, but a decent bye week fill-in after seemingly getting back in coaches good graces), Ben Watson (top-notch physical talent, but inconsistent), Bo Scaife (role should shrink considerably this year, limited talent, but good track record), Gary Barnidge (Underrated hands and speed, but stuck in three-headed TE rotation), Delanie Walker (deserves more love, could break out on second team)

 
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For dynasty I would put Finley and Davis in tier 1 and move Witten to tier 2.
Can you say more on why? No worries on one year (or one month) wonder on Finley/Davis? You really see Witten dropping out of elite because of a down red zone year? It happened before and he bounced back with a vengeance the next year.
 
For dynasty I would put Finley and Davis in tier 1 and move Witten to tier 2.
Can you say more on why? No worries on one year (or one month) wonder on Finley/Davis? You really see Witten dropping out of elite because of a down red zone year? It happened before and he bounced back with a vengeance the next year.
I believe you have to factor how they're being used when determining tiers. I have concern that Dallas will continue to use Witten more as a blocker in the near future. I know he still had a lot of receptions, but I did see him as a blocker more last year. Will that continue? I also don't think I would trade Finley for any TE right now, so that alone is my reason for tier 1 for Finley. Also, Clark will be 31 by next season, but I still consider him tier 1 for at least a couple more years, maybe more. Davis is truly tier 1, but I still have memories of maturity issues that make me leery of him, but he is a stud when his head is right.
 
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I think Celek is a better fit in tier 3 than tier 4. He had a very nice season and I think most of those tier 4 guys have a lot lower potential or have bigger question marks with their teams.

 
I think Celek is a better fit in tier 3 than tier 4. He had a very nice season and I think most of those tier 4 guys have a lot lower potential or have bigger question marks with their teams.
I would put Celek in with Winslow and move Z.Miller Oak down with the others. Oak offense if putrid and could take longer for Miller to really reach his potential where Celek has great chemistry with either QB on a pass happy offense.
 
I do have Celek at the top of the tier, my reservation is just that as Maclin gets better, and if Ingram gets healthy, Celek might not have quite as large a share of the targets. Its just hard for me to put him up with names that he's not as talented as because those guys production tends to come back down to their talent level over time. I do know that if I had Celek + another top 5 TE option, I would trade Celek if I could get market value for him to help at another position.

 
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I do have Celek at the top of the tier, my reservation is just that as Maclin gets better, and if Ingram gets healthy, Celek might not have quite as large a share of the targets. Its just hard for me to put him up with names that he's not as talented as because those guys production tends to come back down to their talent level over time. I do know that if I had Celek + another top 5 TE option, I would trade Celek if I could get market value for him to help at another position.
I agree with this take on Celek.Regarding the rest of the rankings, I pretty much agree with them a lot as well.Minor quibbles and various observations:They are still elite, but my eyes saw some decline in Clark and Gates. Gates does not look nearly like the dominating athlete he once was; he is still very good and has great stability at QB, so he is clearly tier one. I just think the physical decline has begun. Still top 5 for the next 3 seasons, so no worries. Clark looked like he has lost half a step as well. He still looks very smooth and has Peyton throwing to him, but I think it is very conceivable that the Colts have so many receiving options next season that Clark slides a bit. I don't think there is any way, barring injuries, that Clark sees 132 targets again. I would have Clark in a 5 player tier one, but probably #4 overall.I have Finley and Davis in tier one with Gates/Witten/Clark. I think the three older guys are "safer" picks, and I don't disagree with your logic in placing Davis and Finley behind them, but I think their ceilings are so high and they are so young that they merit a tier one ranking. Finley is so young and so athletic, not to mention he has an elite young QB, that he is top 2 for me. I turned down a Gates for Finley offer recently, but it wasn't easy. Gates has a 2 yr contract vs Finley's 3 yr contract, so that is what I told my self was the reason. Really, though, I just love Finley. :-) Plenty of personal choice here, though, there is a good argument for any of these guys to finish top 2.I think Cook deserves to be higher based on upside; I love him as a TE2 on a dynasty team. I think Pettigrew looked like he has limited upside based on athleticism, but top 10 potential. The ACL is a worry, though. Pettigrew's ranking is about right, but I think Cook is much more likely to break out, and thus should be well ahead of Pettigrew.I like Fred Davis as a dynasty TE2 as well. He looks talented enough to be a TE1, just not a top end kind of guy. I like him significantly better than Boss and Scheffler in the same tier. Cooley's return dampens Fred Davis' prospects for now.I like Nelson and Z.Miller (Jax) to leap above Boss/Scheffler/Pettigrew based on upside as well, though we are getting into lower TE2s or TE3s here, so it is a pick your poison type of situation. Great list and very sound logic behind the rankings, Sig. :jawdrop:
 
Good stuff, Bloom - question about your ranking on Cook:

I assume his rank in the ~TE17 range weighs the chances of a Finley-esque sophomore explosion vs. the chance that Cook's seemingly extraordinary talent is never fully realized.

Can you tell me what you would estimate the odds are for each of those scenarios:

1) Cook becomes a top-5 elite talent

2) Cook becomes a serviceable starter, TE6-12

3) Cook becomes a decent bye week filler, say TE12-18

4) Cook becomes a below average second-string fantasy TE: TE19-24

5) Cook becomes a role player or worse, TE25+

Thanks!

 
Good stuff, Bloom - question about your ranking on Cook:I assume his rank in the ~TE17 range weighs the chances of a Finley-esque sophomore explosion vs. the chance that Cook's seemingly extraordinary talent is never fully realized.Can you tell me what you would estimate the odds are for each of those scenarios:20% - 1) Cook becomes a top-5 elite talent40% - 2) Cook becomes a serviceable starter, TE6-1220% - 3) Cook becomes a decent bye week filler, say TE12-1810% - 4) Cook becomes a below average second-string fantasy TE: TE19-2410% - 5) Cook becomes a role player or worse, TE25+Thanks!
off the top of my head... there is a bust risk, Spurrier didn't really back him in the draft and he could be another Ben Watson. Having VY as a QB and being on the same team as the best RB in the game right now doesn't help.
 
For dynasty I would put Finley and Davis in tier 1 and move Witten to tier 2.
Can you say more on why? No worries on one year (or one month) wonder on Finley/Davis? You really see Witten dropping out of elite because of a down red zone year? It happened before and he bounced back with a vengeance the next year.
I believe you have to factor how they're being used when determining tiers. I have concern that Dallas will continue to use Witten more as a blocker in the near future. I know he still had a lot of receptions, but I did see him as a blocker more last year. Will that continue?
Yes and no. One could argue that Dallas' OTs are showing age (they are) and that one of their first means of helping pass protection is keeping in a TE. So one might argue that as the OTs age, they'll keep in a TE to block more. A few counter points to this:1) In the last 2 years, Dallas has drafted Martellus Bennett and more specifically, John Phillips, to be the blocking TE to allow Witten to be used more in pass routes. Both those guys are better blockers today than receivers. IF they're keeping in a TE, it will be one of those guys. Assuming the base offense. In 3WR sets, then Witten is the only TE on the field, and in max protect, he would stay in along with the RB (who is the primary extra blocker with the TE secondary extra). But Dallas keeping 7 in to block doesnt happen all that often, only a handful of times per game.2) When Parcells was coach, he kept Witten in a lot more than Garrett does. Tuna didnt have any viable options and much worse OTs in some cases. So if you're afraid of him having to block a lot, your floor is going to be during Tuna's tenure. His numbers then are still quite good.
 
Marcedes Lewis (more talented that #s, but inconsistent and used a lot to block),
He is being used more as a blocker and Zach Miller2 could take some targets away, but his 16 per catch in 2009 is pretty impressive for a TE. It does give some hope that he could be a late bloomer as a receiving TE.
 
Great list Bloom. I think we could see Carlson jump up into tier 3 next year with Carrol as coach. That USC offense tends to feature the TE at times and Carlson is an excellent pass catcher. He had an OK year this year but I expect him to have good year in 2010.

 
I do have Celek at the top of the tier, my reservation is just that as Maclin gets better, and if Ingram gets healthy, Celek might not have quite as large a share of the targets. Its just hard for me to put him up with names that he's not as talented as because those guys production tends to come back down to their talent level over time. I do know that if I had Celek + another top 5 TE option, I would trade Celek if I could get market value for him to help at another position.
You won't. Celek is very underated right now.He signed a 6 year deal in december so i don't think Ingram will ever be a threat. His situation is very stable too compared to Winslow and Miller. I don't know if he is an elite talent but he offers elite production at half the price.

Great list and very interesting read. :wub:

 
Obviously no list will ever make everyone happy, but I totally disagree with Owen Daniels he was the #1 scoring TE when he got hurt and no other TE stepped up when he went down. That alone makes me that no one is cutting into his touches and he only has 1 player ahead of him in the pecking order for targets. Good read, but totally disagree on Daniels.

 
Obviously no list will ever make everyone happy, but I totally disagree with Owen Daniels he was the #1 scoring TE when he got hurt and no other TE stepped up when he went down. That alone makes me that no one is cutting into his touches and he only has 1 player ahead of him in the pecking order for targets. Good read, but totally disagree on Daniels.
Another worry about Daniels that I didnt mention is that this was his third ACL tear. He didnt have any big athletic advantages as it was, a loss of any quickness or speed could really take the edge off of his game.
 
For dynasty I would put Finley and Davis in tier 1 and move Witten to tier 2.
Can you say more on why? No worries on one year (or one month) wonder on Finley/Davis? You really see Witten dropping out of elite because of a down red zone year?
Haven't Witten's last two years been down red zone years?
Witten would have had 5 or 6 TDs in 08 if he and Romo hadn't gotten banged up. He is no red zone specialist, but he is better than a 1 or 2 TD a season player. Half of the years of his career he has had 6-7 TDs and he has averaged 90 catches and over 1000 yards over the last 3 seasons, that equals elite TE in my book.
 
Nice work. I agree with most of your rankings.

Chase Coffman looks like a guy who will never get there to me. He has a funky build with long, skinny legs that give him a high center of gravity and impede his ability to change directions smoothly. I think he was a bad pick for the Bengals despite his height and collegiate statistics.

 
For dynasty I would put Finley and Davis in tier 1 and move Witten to tier 2.
Can you say more on why? No worries on one year (or one month) wonder on Finley/Davis? You really see Witten dropping out of elite because of a down red zone year?
Haven't Witten's last two years been down red zone years?
Witten would have had 5 or 6 TDs in 08 if he and Romo hadn't gotten banged up. He is no red zone specialist, but he is better than a 1 or 2 TD a season player. Half of the years of his career he has had 6-7 TDs and he has averaged 90 catches and over 1000 yards over the last 3 seasons, that equals elite TE in my book.
96, 81, 94 = 271 receptions these last 3 years, 48 games.That's 5 less than Andre Johnson, 22 (less than half a reception per game) less than Fitzgerald, 78 more than Calvin Johnson.He had 4 or more catches in every game last year. Those who want to, go ahead and take the guys who will score more TDs, I'll take the consistent pass catcher.
 
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I agree with this take on Celek.Regarding the rest of the rankings, I pretty much agree with them a lot as well.Minor quibbles and various observations:They are still elite, but my eyes saw some decline in Clark and Gates. Gates does not look nearly like the dominating athlete he once was; he is still very good and has great stability at QB, so he is clearly tier one. I just think the physical decline has begun. Still top 5 for the next 3 seasons, so no worries. Clark looked like he has lost half a step as well. He still looks very smooth and has Peyton throwing to him, but I think it is very conceivable that the Colts have so many receiving options next season that Clark slides a bit. I don't think there is any way, barring injuries, that Clark sees 132 targets again. I would have Clark in a 5 player tier one, but probably #4 overall.
You're right that I soft-pedaled the erosion in Gates and Clark's skills - they certainly aren't in their prime anymore and not doing what they could have done with certain targets/opportunities 3 or 4 years ago. Clark isn't quite as fast, and Gates isn't quite as explosive. I should have said that there's not a sign that the erosion in their ability is going to greatly affect their production over the next 2 or 3 years. People get age-obsessed in dynasty leagues, but both of these guys are looking great for a TE their age, and they should follow the Gonzo career curve. Clark could regress to the mean some, but Peyton loves to pound teams over the head with him when they don't have an LB/S that matches up well with him, so those 10-15 catch outburst games will keep coming a few times a year.
I have Finley and Davis in tier one with Gates/Witten/Clark. I think the three older guys are "safer" picks, and I don't disagree with your logic in placing Davis and Finley behind them, but I think their ceilings are so high and they are so young that they merit a tier one ranking. Finley is so young and so athletic, not to mention he has an elite young QB, that he is top 2 for me. I turned down a Gates for Finley offer recently, but it wasn't easy. Gates has a 2 yr contract vs Finley's 3 yr contract, so that is what I told my self was the reason. Really, though, I just love Finley. :-) Plenty of personal choice here, though, there is a good argument for any of these guys to finish top 2.
We could easily be talking about Davis or Finley as the consensus TE1 by October, but in reality, you can't expect them to go THAT much higher than the ceiling Clark/Gates/Witten has established, especially because they are both surrounded by a good young core of WRs.
I think Cook deserves to be higher based on upside; I love him as a TE2 on a dynasty team. I think Pettigrew looked like he has limited upside based on athleticism, but top 10 potential. The ACL is a worry, though. Pettigrew's ranking is about right, but I think Cook is much more likely to break out, and thus should be well ahead of Pettigrew.I like Fred Davis as a dynasty TE2 as well. He looks talented enough to be a TE1, just not a top end kind of guy. I like him significantly better than Boss and Scheffler in the same tier. Cooley's return dampens Fred Davis' prospects for now.I like Nelson and Z.Miller (Jax) to leap above Boss/Scheffler/Pettigrew based on upside as well, though we are getting into lower TE2s or TE3s here, so it is a pick your poison type of situation. Great list and very sound logic behind the rankings, Sig. :lmao:
The case of Celek vs Scheffler illustrates why I have Cook and Pettigrew on the same tier, and if anything it argues for Pettigrew being higher. The one-dimensional pass-catching talent has been marginalized into a "stash and hope" fantasy TE, meanwhile the two-way TE with "good enough" pass-catching skills has become an everyweek starter.I wrestled with the Zmiller (jax) ranking. He flashed speed and athleticism that matched his sick workout numbers, and he is just getting used to the position.Thanks for the feedback!
 
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Nice work. I agree with most of your rankings.

Chase Coffman looks like a guy who will never get there to me. He has a funky build with long, skinny legs that give him a high center of gravity and impede his ability to change directions smoothly. I think he was a bad pick for the Bengals despite his height and collegiate statistics.
Still worrying about body type I see, but I agree with you about Coffman, but for different reasons. The Bengals simply don't like to throw it to their TE and haven't for years. Also, Coffman is an injury risk and he can't block a lick. Of course not being able to block isn't as much of a factor if he's a beast catching the ball.
 
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Nice work. I agree with most of your rankings.

Chase Coffman looks like a guy who will never get there to me. He has a funky build with long, skinny legs that give him a high center of gravity and impede his ability to change directions smoothly. I think he was a bad pick for the Bengals despite his height and collegiate statistics.
The Bengals simply don't like to throw it to their TE and haven't for years.
This brings up an interesting question - the Bengals had to know Coffman was a one-dimensional pass catcher when they took him in the third, even a pedestrian football fan could see that Coffman was an oversized WR at Mizzou - so what were they thinking if they didn't draft him to become a pass-catcher from the TE position? They also signed Ben "Fra-gee-lay" Utecht in 2008 to open up the potential of the TE in the passing game. Just because a team had a philosophy about using a position a certain way in the past doesn't mean that they can't change, especially when they make moves that indicate that they are trying to initiate a change.
 
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Brent Celek had more TD's in 2009 than Zach Miller has had over his entire career. Just sayin...
I'll admit that more than anything from this discussion I am wondering if I am underrating Celek. Maybe I just remember being completely underwhelmed by his physical ability at the 07 Shrine Game too well. While I do think that Miller's production while mired in a backwards passing game is a sign that much bigger numbers are within his reach if Oakland ever gets their act together, I have to admit that I am very close to bumping Celek up over him, and maybe even Winslow after reflecting on this discussion.
 
Brent Celek had more TD's in 2009 than Zach Miller has had over his entire career. Just sayin...
I'll admit that more than anything from this discussion I am wondering if I am underrating Celek. Maybe I just remember being completely underwhelmed by his physical ability at the 07 Shrine Game too well. While I do think that Miller's production while mired in a backwards passing game is a sign that much bigger numbers are within his reach if Oakland ever gets their act together, I have to admit that I am very close to bumping Celek up over him, and maybe even Winslow after reflecting on this discussion.
Physical ability in 07? Did you actually see alot of his games last season? I seen most of them and he RAN over ALOT of players, looked like a tank most of the times. And he is no doubt above ZMiller Oak. If not for physical ability, 110% for situation then. Pass first offense, McNabb LOVES him, Kolb LOVES him more, what more do you need?
 
Brent Celek had more TD's in 2009 than Zach Miller has had over his entire career. Just sayin...
I'll admit that more than anything from this discussion I am wondering if I am underrating Celek. Maybe I just remember being completely underwhelmed by his physical ability at the 07 Shrine Game too well. While I do think that Miller's production while mired in a backwards passing game is a sign that much bigger numbers are within his reach if Oakland ever gets their act together, I have to admit that I am very close to bumping Celek up over him, and maybe even Winslow after reflecting on this discussion.
Physical ability in 07? Did you actually see alot of his games last season? I seen most of them and he RAN over ALOT of players, looked like a tank most of the times. And he is no doubt above ZMiller Oak. If not for physical ability, 110% for situation then. Pass first offense, McNabb LOVES him, Kolb LOVES him more, what more do you need?
He is a tough runner and he executes with precision and consistency - but he is not a quick-twitch guy or an explosive player in any facet of his game - regardless, he has proven he can produce with the best of them without the bump that the occasional super-athletic play gives to someone's stats. Point taken.
 
Brent Celek had more TD's in 2009 than Zach Miller has had over his entire career. Just sayin...
I'll admit that more than anything from this discussion I am wondering if I am underrating Celek. Maybe I just remember being completely underwhelmed by his physical ability at the 07 Shrine Game too well. While I do think that Miller's production while mired in a backwards passing game is a sign that much bigger numbers are within his reach if Oakland ever gets their act together, I have to admit that I am very close to bumping Celek up over him, and maybe even Winslow after reflecting on this discussion.
Physical ability in 07? Did you actually see alot of his games last season? I seen most of them and he RAN over ALOT of players, looked like a tank most of the times. And he is no doubt above ZMiller Oak. If not for physical ability, 110% for situation then. Pass first offense, McNabb LOVES him, Kolb LOVES him more, what more do you need?
He is a tough runner and he executes with precision and consistency - but he is not a quick-twitch guy or an explosive player in any facet of his game - regardless, he has proven he can produce with the best of them without the bump that the occasional super-athletic play gives to someone's stats. Point taken.
From watching him alot, I would say he is an explosive player after the catch for sure. If that means a 'tough runner' to you, so be it. Just very explosive to me!
 
Nice work. I agree with most of your rankings.

Chase Coffman looks like a guy who will never get there to me. He has a funky build with long, skinny legs that give him a high center of gravity and impede his ability to change directions smoothly. I think he was a bad pick for the Bengals despite his height and collegiate statistics.
The Bengals simply don't like to throw it to their TE and haven't for years.
This brings up an interesting question - the Bengals had to know Coffman was a one-dimensional pass catcher when they took him in the third, even a pedestrian football fan could see that Coffman was an oversized WR at Mizzou - so what were they thinking if they didn't draft him to become a pass-catcher from the TE position? They also signed Ben "Fra-gee-lay" Utecht in 2008 to open up the potential of the TE in the passing game. Just because a team had a philosophy about using a position a certain way in the past doesn't mean that they can't change, especially when they make moves that indicate that they are trying to initiate a change.
True, but I really haven't seen any indication on the field as of yet, but that's not to say they won't in 2010. I wouldn't hold my breath however.
 
Nice work. I agree with most of your rankings.

Chase Coffman looks like a guy who will never get there to me. He has a funky build with long, skinny legs that give him a high center of gravity and impede his ability to change directions smoothly. I think he was a bad pick for the Bengals despite his height and collegiate statistics.
The Bengals simply don't like to throw it to their TE and haven't for years.
This brings up an interesting question - the Bengals had to know Coffman was a one-dimensional pass catcher when they took him in the third, even a pedestrian football fan could see that Coffman was an oversized WR at Mizzou - so what were they thinking if they didn't draft him to become a pass-catcher from the TE position? They also signed Ben "Fra-gee-lay" Utecht in 2008 to open up the potential of the TE in the passing game. Just because a team had a philosophy about using a position a certain way in the past doesn't mean that they can't change, especially when they make moves that indicate that they are trying to initiate a change.
True, but I really haven't seen any indication on the field as of yet, but that's not to say they won't in 2010. I wouldn't hold my breath however.
Foschi and Coats got just about as many targets combined (68) as Caldwell (79) or Coles (76) and they are very mediocre players. If you actually put a viable pass-catcher at TE, he could easily become the #2 option in the passing game.
 
Nice work. I agree with most of your rankings.

Chase Coffman looks like a guy who will never get there to me. He has a funky build with long, skinny legs that give him a high center of gravity and impede his ability to change directions smoothly. I think he was a bad pick for the Bengals despite his height and collegiate statistics.
The Bengals simply don't like to throw it to their TE and haven't for years.
This brings up an interesting question - the Bengals had to know Coffman was a one-dimensional pass catcher when they took him in the third, even a pedestrian football fan could see that Coffman was an oversized WR at Mizzou - so what were they thinking if they didn't draft him to become a pass-catcher from the TE position? They also signed Ben "Fra-gee-lay" Utecht in 2008 to open up the potential of the TE in the passing game. Just because a team had a philosophy about using a position a certain way in the past doesn't mean that they can't change, especially when they make moves that indicate that they are trying to initiate a change.
True, but I really haven't seen any indication on the field as of yet, but that's not to say they won't in 2010. I wouldn't hold my breath however.
Foschi and Coats got just about as many targets combined (68) as Caldwell (79) or Coles (76) and they are very mediocre players. If you actually put a viable pass-catcher at TE, he could easily become the #2 option in the passing game.
I doubt any single TE would get 68 receptions in that offense. Maybe 40 at best IMO. Oh wait, you said targets, not receptions.
 
Nice work. I agree with most of your rankings.

Chase Coffman looks like a guy who will never get there to me. He has a funky build with long, skinny legs that give him a high center of gravity and impede his ability to change directions smoothly. I think he was a bad pick for the Bengals despite his height and collegiate statistics.
The Bengals simply don't like to throw it to their TE and haven't for years.
This brings up an interesting question - the Bengals had to know Coffman was a one-dimensional pass catcher when they took him in the third, even a pedestrian football fan could see that Coffman was an oversized WR at Mizzou - so what were they thinking if they didn't draft him to become a pass-catcher from the TE position? They also signed Ben "Fra-gee-lay" Utecht in 2008 to open up the potential of the TE in the passing game. Just because a team had a philosophy about using a position a certain way in the past doesn't mean that they can't change, especially when they make moves that indicate that they are trying to initiate a change.
True, but I really haven't seen any indication on the field as of yet, but that's not to say they won't in 2010. I wouldn't hold my breath however.
Foschi and Coats got just about as many targets combined (68) as Caldwell (79) or Coles (76) and they are very mediocre players. If you actually put a viable pass-catcher at TE, he could easily become the #2 option in the passing game.
Bengals coach Marvin Lewis says he still has high hopes for 2009 third-round pick Chase Coffman, despite Coffman's lost rookie year."I’m excited about how Chase will help us. He’s a big-time receiving threat," Lewis said. "He catches every ball thrown near him." The fact of the matter is offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski's scheme has never used a tight end in the passing game. We have little hope for Coffman's fantasy stock.

Source: bengals.com

 
This brings up an interesting question - the Bengals had to know Coffman was a one-dimensional pass catcher when they took him in the third, even a pedestrian football fan could see that Coffman was an oversized WR at Mizzou - so what were they thinking if they didn't draft him to become a pass-catcher from the TE position? They also signed Ben "Fra-gee-lay" Utecht in 2008 to open up the potential of the TE in the passing game. Just because a team had a philosophy about using a position a certain way in the past doesn't mean that they can't change, especially when they make moves that indicate that they are trying to initiate a change.
True, but I really haven't seen any indication on the field as of yet, but that's not to say they won't in 2010. I wouldn't hold my breath however.
Foschi and Coats got just about as many targets combined (68) as Caldwell (79) or Coles (76) and they are very mediocre players. If you actually put a viable pass-catcher at TE, he could easily become the #2 option in the passing game.
Bengals coach Marvin Lewis says he still has high hopes for 2009 third-round pick Chase Coffman, despite Coffman's lost rookie year."I’m excited about how Chase will help us. He’s a big-time receiving threat," Lewis said. "He catches every ball thrown near him." The fact of the matter is offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski's scheme has never used a tight end in the passing game. We have little hope for Coffman's fantasy stock.

Source: bengals.com
Ocho wont stand for a TE taking any of his balls!
 
Nice work. I agree with most of your rankings.

Chase Coffman looks like a guy who will never get there to me. He has a funky build with long, skinny legs that give him a high center of gravity and impede his ability to change directions smoothly. I think he was a bad pick for the Bengals despite his height and collegiate statistics.
The Bengals simply don't like to throw it to their TE and haven't for years.
This brings up an interesting question - the Bengals had to know Coffman was a one-dimensional pass catcher when they took him in the third, even a pedestrian football fan could see that Coffman was an oversized WR at Mizzou - so what were they thinking if they didn't draft him to become a pass-catcher from the TE position? They also signed Ben "Fra-gee-lay" Utecht in 2008 to open up the potential of the TE in the passing game. Just because a team had a philosophy about using a position a certain way in the past doesn't mean that they can't change, especially when they make moves that indicate that they are trying to initiate a change.
I really don't think it's that interesting. Coffman to the Bengals makes the same amount of sense as Rey to the Bengals and Michael Johnson to the Bengals last season. At different times all of these guys were talked about as potential top, potentially elite prospects, and for various reasons faded between their Sr seasons and draft time. The Bengals saw them fall too far, thought 'value,' and took them. They don't invest in scouting because their owner is cheap, which also explains most of their free agent moves (Laveraneus Coles withstanding). Coffman was a highly regarded TE at some point, even though he shouldn't have been, so the Bengals took him...even if (speculation on my part) the team isn't going to use him anyway.
 
Brent Celek had more TD's in 2009 than Zach Miller has had over his entire career. Just sayin...
I'll admit that more than anything from this discussion I am wondering if I am underrating Celek. Maybe I just remember being completely underwhelmed by his physical ability at the 07 Shrine Game too well. While I do think that Miller's production while mired in a backwards passing game is a sign that much bigger numbers are within his reach if Oakland ever gets their act together, I have to admit that I am very close to bumping Celek up over him, and maybe even Winslow after reflecting on this discussion.
While I love the reports on the allstar games, I think you guys have a tendency to put too much stock in them... Cecil has spent a fair amount of time telling us Celek can't tie his shoes and Flacco transferred instead of trying to beat out Palko. It's good to have opinions on players, but it's best not to get too married to what you saw in an an allstar game once a player has proven himself in the NFL.
 
Note: This is my first attempt at cinching up my offseason dynasty rankings (which will get blown up by FA and the draft) - the who, where and why of them - please feel free to offer feedback, differing opinions - the point is to stimulate discussion.

.

Tier 3: Kellen Winslow, Zach Miller (OAK) - These guys have the skills to be Tier 1 TEs, but they are mired in remedial passing attacks. Both are great buy lows on the chance that their QBs get things together in 2010, because they are both better pass catchers than any WR on the roster.
I wouldn't sleep on Zach Miller - it looks like Russell may ( finally) be out as starting QB in Oakland, and if/when that happens, Miller's stats should skyrocket..in games 9-13 with Gradkowski at QB, Miller caught 26 balls for 337 yards and 1 TD..averaging 5 catches for 67 yards during that stretch...

over a 16-game schedule, that would work out to 80 recs, 1072 yards..pretty much the Jason Witten of the West Coast..

:thumbup:

 
A guy I think is underrated in general is Shiancoe. He's finished 5th and 6th the past two seasons, one of them with Frerotte/Jackson at QB. He's 30, but had little mileage for his first four seasons behind Shockey. His TDs are high, but that's not too surprising since he had great measurables when he was drafted, and is a good redzone target. I guess I just don't see a strong reason to think he'll fall off in the next 2-3 years.

 
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Note: This is my first attempt at cinching up my offseason dynasty rankings (which will get blown up by FA and the draft) - the who, where and why of them - please feel free to offer feedback, differing opinions - the point is to stimulate discussion.

.

Tier 3: Kellen Winslow, Zach Miller (OAK) - These guys have the skills to be Tier 1 TEs, but they are mired in remedial passing attacks. Both are great buy lows on the chance that their QBs get things together in 2010, because they are both better pass catchers than any WR on the roster.
I wouldn't sleep on Zach Miller - it looks like Russell may ( finally) be out as starting QB in Oakland, and if/when that happens, Miller's stats should skyrocket..in games 9-13 with Gradkowski at QB, Miller caught 26 balls for 337 yards and 1 TD..averaging 5 catches for 67 yards during that stretch...

over a 16-game schedule, that would work out to 80 recs, 1072 yards..pretty much the Jason Witten of the West Coast..

:pickle:
I'm trying to figure out how to land Miller this year.Any other TE news?

 
Good stuff. After taking a closer look at the field of TEs for some recent startup drafts, I think you're a bit too low on Fred Davis. I think he's almost the exact same player as Zach Miller from a skill standpoint and he already proved that he could be a productive pro by catching 41 passes for 464 yards in just 10 games as a starter. That equates to 65 catches for 742 yards over a 16 game season. I agree that his ceiling isn't sky high, but he's going to be a solid TE1 in the near future.

 

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