Team O Chess (1 Viewer)

[dancingbones]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

What I don't like is this possibility:

1. e4 c5

2. Nf3 d6

3. d4 cxd4

4. Nxd4Nf6

5. Nc3 a6

6. Bg5 e6

7. f4 Qb6

8. Qd2 Qxb2

9. Rb1 Qa3

10. e5 dxe5

11. fxe5 Nfd7

12. Ne4 h6

13. Bb5hxg5

14. O-O axb5

15. Nxb5 Bc5+

16. Kh1 Qe3

 

[dancingbones]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

That first PGN has something screwy with it. It has a knight moving illegally in move 16 - apologies for however that happened.

 

[kutta]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

Do you mean nf6?I only have a few minutes but some possibilities are qxg7 or rd1 or maybe nxb7 then rd1. And actually I think we can take the knight with the pawn because if they try to win our other knight we can queen the pawn.

 

[kutta]

I think we have to make sure we are good if they never take the bishop on b5,

 

[kutta]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

What I don't like is this possibility:1. e4 c5

2. Nf3 d6

3. d4 cxd4

4. Nxd4Nf6

5. Nc3 a6

6. Bg5 e6

7. f4 Qb6

8. Qd2 Qxb2

9. Rb1 Qa3

10. e5 dxe5

11. fxe5 Nfd7

12. Ne4 h6

13. Bb5hxg5

14. O-O axb5

15. Nxb5 Bc5+

16. Kh1 Qe3

Maybe we just play rf1 instead if castling?Also, what do we do if they take the a pawn before taking our bishop on b5?

 

[dancingbones]

I'm in if we want to go this way. We have to be prepared for the possibility of them taking the three pieces for their queen.

I am not inclined to do that as white, trade three pieces for their queen. My research indicates that Bh4 is the most solid move here, by a large margin. That is my choice.

If we go bh4, what is the plan from there? I'm not opposed to it, but it seems that it gives them time to rally their troops & pick up more material.

We have our pawn on e5 unprotected from the threat of their knight on d7. We have a threat on our bishop on g5, and our a2 pawn.

bh4 removes the threat on the bishop, but what is their next move? nxe5?

 

[Psychopav]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

What I don't like is this possibility:

1. e4 c5

2. Nf3 d6

3. d4 cxd4

4. Nxd4Nf6

5. Nc3 a6

6. Bg5 e6

7. f4 Qb6

8. Qd2 Qxb2

9. Rb1 Qa3

10. e5 dxe5

11. fxe5 Nfd7

12. Ne4 h6

13. Bb5hxg5

14. O-O axb5

15. Nxb5 Bc5+

16. Kh1 Qe3

17.Qxe3 Bxe3 18.Nbd6+ Kd8 19.Rxf7 ?

 

[Psychopav]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

Do you mean nf6?I only have a few minutes but some possibilities are qxg7 or rd1 or maybe nxb7 then rd1. And actually I think we can take the knight with the pawn because if they try to win our other knight we can queen the pawn.

Yes, sorry. I did mean Nf6.

 

[Psychopav]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

What I don't like is this possibility:1. e4 c5

2. Nf3 d6

3. d4 cxd4

4. Nxd4Nf6

5. Nc3 a6

6. Bg5 e6

7. f4 Qb6

8. Qd2 Qxb2

9. Rb1 Qa3

10. e5 dxe5

11. fxe5 Nfd7

12. Ne4 h6

13. Bb5hxg5

14. O-O axb5

15. Nxb5 Bc5+

16. Kh1 Qe3

Maybe we just play rf1 instead if castling?Also, what do we do if they take the a pawn before taking our bishop on b5?

That's the reason for the castle, isn't it? Rf1 activates the rook but loses us the tempo in the event of Qxa2 because then we need to protect our rook on b file.

 

[dancingbones]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

What I don't like is this possibility:1. e4 c5

2. Nf3 d6

3. d4 cxd4

4. Nxd4Nf6

5. Nc3 a6

6. Bg5 e6

7. f4 Qb6

8. Qd2 Qxb2

9. Rb1 Qa3

10. e5 dxe5

11. fxe5 Nfd7

12. Ne4 h6

13. Bb5hxg5

14. O-O axb5

15. Nxb5 Bc5+

16. Kh1 Qe3

Maybe we just play rf1 instead if castling?Also, what do we do if they take the a pawn before taking our bishop on b5?

I don't see how we can sustain the tempo & actually win the attack is the problem.

 

[Psychopav]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

What I don't like is this possibility:1. e4 c5

2. Nf3 d6

3. d4 cxd4

4. Nxd4Nf6

5. Nc3 a6

6. Bg5 e6

7. f4 Qb6

8. Qd2 Qxb2

9. Rb1 Qa3

10. e5 dxe5

11. fxe5 Nfd7

12. Ne4 h6

13. Bb5hxg5

14. O-O axb5

15. Nxb5 Bc5+

16. Kh1 Qe3

Maybe we just play rf1 instead if castling?Also, what do we do if they take the a pawn before taking our bishop on b5?

I don't see how we can sustain the tempo & actually win the attack is the problem.

What about this?

17.Rxf7 Kxf7

18.Nxg5+ Qxg5

19.Qxg5

Not sure what they do there but Rf1 sets us up pretty good. We're down material but it looks like we still have a nice attack going at that point.

 

[dancingbones]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

What I don't like is this possibility:1. e4 c5

2. Nf3 d6

3. d4 cxd4

4. Nxd4Nf6

5. Nc3 a6

6. Bg5 e6

7. f4 Qb6

8. Qd2 Qxb2

9. Rb1 Qa3

10. e5 dxe5

11. fxe5 Nfd7

12. Ne4 h6

13. Bb5hxg5

14. O-O axb5

15. Nxb5 Bc5+

16. Kh1 Qe3

Maybe we just play rf1 instead if castling?Also, what do we do if they take the a pawn before taking our bishop on b5?

I don't see how we can sustain the tempo & actually win the attack is the problem.

What about this?

17.Rxf7 Kxf7

18.Nxg5+ Qxg5

19.Qxg5

Not sure what they do there but Rf1 sets us up pretty good. We're down material but it looks like we still have a nice attack going at that point.

I don't think we have enough left there to put it away.

 

[Psychopav]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

What I don't like is this possibility:1. e4 c5

2. Nf3 d6

3. d4 cxd4

4. Nxd4Nf6

5. Nc3 a6

6. Bg5 e6

7. f4 Qb6

8. Qd2 Qxb2

9. Rb1 Qa3

10. e5 dxe5

11. fxe5 Nfd7

12. Ne4 h6

13. Bb5hxg5

14. O-O axb5

15. Nxb5 Bc5+

16. Kh1 Qe3

Maybe we just play rf1 instead if castling?Also, what do we do if they take the a pawn before taking our bishop on b5?

I don't see how we can sustain the tempo & actually win the attack is the problem.

What about this?

17.Rxf7 Kxf7

18.Nxg5+ Qxg5

19.Qxg5

Not sure what they do there but Rf1 sets us up pretty good. We're down material but it looks like we still have a nice attack going at that point.

I don't think we have enough left there to put it away.

At the least we take a rook out of it, right?

 

[dancingbones]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

What I don't like is this possibility:1. e4 c5

2. Nf3 d6

3. d4 cxd4

4. Nxd4Nf6

5. Nc3 a6

6. Bg5 e6

7. f4 Qb6

8. Qd2 Qxb2

9. Rb1 Qa3

10. e5 dxe5

11. fxe5 Nfd7

12. Ne4 h6

13. Bb5hxg5

14. O-O axb5

15. Nxb5 Bc5+

16. Kh1 Qe3

Maybe we just play rf1 instead if castling?Also, what do we do if they take the a pawn before taking our bishop on b5?

I don't see how we can sustain the tempo & actually win the attack is the problem.

What about this?

17.Rxf7 Kxf7

18.Nxg5+ Qxg5

19.Qxg5

Not sure what they do there but Rf1 sets us up pretty good. We're down material but it looks like we still have a nice attack going at that point.

I don't think we have enough left there to put it away.

At the least we take a rook out of it, right?

Not following. In your example (move 18) they take the knight on g5 with the queen. I think they simply move the king to e7 there. No need to trade their Q for a knight.

 

[Psychopav]

White

DB and Kutta:

What if things play out per DB's scenario #1 above, but on move 19 instead of Kc7 they play Ne6? What do we do then?

What I don't like is this possibility:1. e4 c5

2. Nf3 d6

3. d4 cxd4

4. Nxd4Nf6

5. Nc3 a6

6. Bg5 e6

7. f4 Qb6

8. Qd2 Qxb2

9. Rb1 Qa3

10. e5 dxe5

11. fxe5 Nfd7

12. Ne4 h6

13. Bb5hxg5

14. O-O axb5

15. Nxb5 Bc5+

16. Kh1 Qe3

Maybe we just play rf1 instead if castling?Also, what do we do if they take the a pawn before taking our bishop on b5?

I don't see how we can sustain the tempo & actually win the attack is the problem.

What about this?

17.Rxf7 Kxf7

18.Nxg5+ Qxg5

19.Qxg5

Not sure what they do there but Rf1 sets us up pretty good. We're down material but it looks like we still have a nice attack going at that point.

I don't think we have enough left there to put it away.

At the least we take a rook out of it, right?

Not following. In your example (move 18) they take the knight on g5 with the queen. I think they simply move the king to e7 there. No need to trade their Q for a knight.

Ah, I forgot about the bishop guarding the queen.

 

[otello]

1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 d6
3. d4 cxd4
4. Nxd4Nf6
5. Nc3 a6
6. Bg5 e6
7. f4 Qb6
8. Qd2 Qxb2
9. Rb1 Qa3
10. e5 dxe5
11. fxe5 Nfd7
12. Ne4 h6
13. Bb5 hxg5

What about Rb3 here, which leads to:

14. Rb3 Qa2

15. Qc3 Nc6

16. Bxc6 bxc6

17. O-O c5

18. Nc6 Rh4

Does this look like a possibility? It is very difficult predicting so many moves ahead, which is why I tend to play a little more conservatively and suggest 13. Bh4 here. Keep in mind, our overall play as white has been, to me, quite aggressive (poisoned pawn, etc.).

 

[otello]

O as black: c5 or c6? Let's try to resolve this one.

 

[Psychopav]

1. e4 c5

2. Nf3 d6

3. d4 cxd4

4. Nxd4Nf6

5. Nc3 a6

6. Bg5 e6

7. f4 Qb6

8. Qd2 Qxb2

9. Rb1 Qa3

10. e5 dxe5

11. fxe5 Nfd7

12. Ne4 h6

13. Bb5 hxg5

What about Rb3 here, which leads to:

14. Rb3 Qa2

15. Qc3 Nc6

16. Bxc6 bxc6

17. O-O c5

18. Nc6 Rh4

Does this look like a possibility? It is very difficult predicting so many moves ahead, which is why I tend to play a little more conservatively and suggest 13. Bh4 here. Keep in mind, our overall play as white has been, to me, quite aggressive (poisoned pawn, etc.).

15. ...Nc6 - why wouldn't they go a6xb5 here?

 

[Psychopav]

O as black: c5 or c6? Let's try to resolve this one.

c6 has my vote.

 

[otello]

O as black: c5 or c6? Let's try to resolve this one.

c6 has my vote.

c5 otelloc6 psychopav

Kutta, db???

 

[Brownsfan]

O as black: c5 or c6? Let's try to resolve this one.

c6 has my vote.

c5 otelloc6 psychopav

Kutta, db???

C6 is my vote

 

[otello]

O as black: c5 or c6? Let's try to resolve this one.

c6 has my vote.

c5 otelloc6 psychopav

Kutta, db???

C6 is my vote

c5 otello

c6 psychopav; brownsfan

 

[kutta]

O as black: c5 or c6? Let's try to resolve this one.

c6 has my vote.

c5 otelloc6 psychopav

Kutta, db???

C6 is my vote

c5 otello

c6 psychopav; brownsfan

c6 for me.

But again, not totally opposed to c5 but I would play c6.

 

[kutta]

1. e4 c5

2. Nf3 d6

3. d4 cxd4

4. Nxd4Nf6

5. Nc3 a6

6. Bg5 e6

7. f4 Qb6

8. Qd2 Qxb2

9. Rb1 Qa3

10. e5 dxe5

11. fxe5 Nfd7

12. Ne4 h6

13. Bb5 hxg5

What about Rb3 here, which leads to:

14. Rb3 Qa2

15. Qc3 Nc6

16. Bxc6 bxc6

17. O-O c5

18. Nc6 Rh4

Does this look like a possibility? It is very difficult predicting so many moves ahead, which is why I tend to play a little more conservatively and suggest 13. Bh4 here. Keep in mind, our overall play as white has been, to me, quite aggressive (poisoned pawn, etc.).

15. ...Nc6 - why wouldn't they go a6xb5 here?

We play QxB and they are in trouble. I think.

 

[otello]

O as black: c5 or c6? Let's try to resolve this one.

c6 has my vote.

c5 otelloc6 psychopav

Kutta, db???

C6 is my vote

c5 otello

c6 psychopav; brownsfan

c6 for me.

But again, not totally opposed to c5 but I would play c6.

I hear you. I just want to make a move if we have consensus. We do around c6.

 

[otello]

O as black:

They played Qd2

We are out of any book here. Only games I could find have, c5, c6 or Bh6 as options, with no clear move identified. I am not sure I like Bh6, especially if they push the g pawn to g5, instead of move the Q to c2.c5 looks interesting here.

I agree on Bh6. I think I like c6 best here. They may be planning to castle queenside and with c6 we would pretty much force one file over there to open up. But I'm not hard over on it

I like c6 as well.

DB likes c6. I am playing c6 as black.

 

[otello]

c6 played as black

 

[kutta]

OK. Getting back to us as white. I had a little time tonight to do some more research (call me Otello ;-)), and one thing we have to realize is that they have access to the same research we do. The lines we are playing now are not super popular but they have been played and documented, so we can bet they are looking at them.

From what I see, Bb5 has been played 15 times in the database I am looking at (365chess.com - you have to sign up to see it, but it's free and easy).

If black plays hxg5 (played 8 times), white wins 2 games, black wins 2 games, and 4 games are drawn.

If black plays axb5 (played 6 times), white wins 0 times, black wins 4 times, and 2 games are drawn.

If black plays Qxa2, (played 1 time), it was a draw.

So in 15 times playing this line at the highest levels, white has won twice (white won 13.3%, black won 53.3%, and it was drawn 33.3%).

Conversely, playing Otello's suggestion of Bh4, without going into too much detail, white has much better stats (in 27 games, white won 44.4%, black won 37%, and it was drawn 18.5%).

The thing that really surprised me was the stats on axb5. And going through some of those games it is interesting that it just appears that the material is just too much to give up for the queen.

So I guess all this is to say that while I am still willing to play Bb5 because I think it is a totally cool line, I do think we should maybe start looking a little more at Bh4. It is amazing how these lines have been played lots of times before - heck, one line was played exactly the same for the next six moves or so in 21 games.

 

[otello]

As for white, it is Bb5 or Bh4

I choose Bh4

1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 d6
3. d4 cxd4
4. Nxd4Nf6
5. Nc3 a6
6. Bg5 e6
7. f4 Qb6
8. Qd2 Qxb2
9. Rb1 Qa3
10. e5 dxe5
11. fxe5 Nfd7
12. Ne4 h6
13. Bb5 hxg5

What about Rb3 here, which leads to:

14. Rb3 Qa2

15. Qc3 Nc6

16. Bxc6 bxc6

17. O-O c5

18. Nc6 Rh4

Does this look like a possibility? It is very difficult predicting so many moves ahead, which is why I tend to play a little more conservatively and suggest 13. Bh4 here. Keep in mind, our overall play as white has been, to me, quite aggressive (poisoned pawn, etc.).

15. ...Nc6 - why wouldn't they go a6xb5 here?

We play QxB and they are in trouble. I think.

they could play axb5 as well, in which case we take the bishop on c8+. It does get complex for black, but they have a material advantage.

1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 d6
3. d4 cxd4
4. Nxd4Nf6
5. Nc3 a6
6. Bg5 e6
7. f4 Qb6
8. Qd2 Qxb2
9. Rb1 Qa3
10. e5 dxe5
11. fxe5 Nfd7
12. Ne4 h6
13. Bb5 hxg5

14. Rb3 Qxa2

15. Qc3 axb5

16. Qxc8+ Ke7

17. O-O Qa7

18. Rd3 Nxe5

19. Nc5 Nbd7

20. Nf5+ exf5

at this point, we are down a bishop and two pawns

 

[otello]

OK. Getting back to us as white. I had a little time tonight to do some more research (call me Otello ;-)), and one thing we have to realize is that they have access to the same research we do. The lines we are playing now are not super popular but they have been played and documented, so we can bet they are looking at them.

From what I see, Bb5 has been played 15 times in the database I am looking at (365chess.com - you have to sign up to see it, but it's free and easy).

If black plays hxg5 (played 8 times), white wins 2 games, black wins 2 games, and 4 games are drawn.

If black plays axb5 (played 6 times), white wins 0 times, black wins 4 times, and 2 games are drawn.

If black plays Qxa2, (played 1 time), it was a draw.

So in 15 times playing this line at the highest levels, white has won twice (white won 13.3%, black won 53.3%, and it was drawn 33.3%).

Conversely, playing Otello's suggestion of Bh4, without going into too much detail, white has much better stats (in 27 games, white won 44.4%, black won 37%, and it was drawn 18.5%).

The thing that really surprised me was the stats on axb5. And going through some of those games it is interesting that it just appears that the material is just too much to give up for the queen.

So I guess all this is to say that while I am still willing to play Bb5 because I think it is a totally cool line, I do think we should maybe start looking a little more at Bh4. It is amazing how these lines have been played lots of times before - heck, one line was played exactly the same for the next six moves or so in 21 games.

I do think Bb5 can lead to some interesting play; I just think that we wind up on the losing end (i.e., down material and looking drawish, as our options are limited by the need to play precisely). Also, a draw may be a fine result, given the material disadvantage.

 

[otello]

9:30 left on clock. We need make a decision.

Bh4 is my choice.

 

[Brownsfan]

White

bh4 is my vote also

 

[Psychopav]

White

Oh you guys are sticks in the mud. I'll go along with your "strategy" based on your desire to "win" but it won't be as fun and exciting. Well, at least 'til the end.

Honestly, I think we've poked enough holes in the bishop sac's to make Bh4 the right call. I'm in. Let's see if we can draw them off book first.

 

[kutta]

Yeah, I agree. Let's play Bh4.

 

[otello]

Consensus building....

 

[otello]

Db?

 

[otello]

Moving Bh4. Don't want to time out.

 

[otello]

Bh4 moved

 

[dancingbones]

Bh4 moved

Ok, sounds good. Also agreed w/ move as black.

 

[dancingbones]

OK. Getting back to us as white. I had a little time tonight to do some more research (call me Otello ;-)), and one thing we have to realize is that they have access to the same research we do. The lines we are playing now are not super popular but they have been played and documented, so we can bet they are looking at them.

From what I see, Bb5 has been played 15 times in the database I am looking at (365chess.com - you have to sign up to see it, but it's free and easy).

If black plays hxg5 (played 8 times), white wins 2 games, black wins 2 games, and 4 games are drawn.

If black plays axb5 (played 6 times), white wins 0 times, black wins 4 times, and 2 games are drawn.

If black plays Qxa2, (played 1 time), it was a draw.

So in 15 times playing this line at the highest levels, white has won twice (white won 13.3%, black won 53.3%, and it was drawn 33.3%).

Conversely, playing Otello's suggestion of Bh4, without going into too much detail, white has much better stats (in 27 games, white won 44.4%, black won 37%, and it was drawn 18.5%).

The thing that really surprised me was the stats on axb5. And going through some of those games it is interesting that it just appears that the material is just too much to give up for the queen.

So I guess all this is to say that while I am still willing to play Bb5 because I think it is a totally cool line, I do think we should maybe start looking a little more at Bh4. It is amazing how these lines have been played lots of times before - heck, one line was played exactly the same for the next six moves or so in 21 games.

I've never looked at these types of databases . Sounds like a great idea as a gut check & learning tool. Here's to team chess improving all our games!

 

[Psychopav]

Team X is talking up a storm over there. I bet they were shocked at our Bh4 considering how long we took to get there lol.

We're in their heads...

 

[kutta]

They played quickly -g5. I think that's good for us. Really weakens them at f6.

Back to the drawing board...

 

[kutta]

Well, playing bxp, pxp, qxp sure does get exciting...

 

[kutta]

And actually, taking the pawn with the knight and still planning to play Bb5 gets really cool

 

[kutta]

And actually, taking the second pawn with the knight and still planning to play Bb5 gets really cool

 

[dancingbones]

Well, playing bxp, pxp, qxp sure does get exciting...

I like the look of this.

 

[kutta]

Well, playing bxp, pxp, qxp sure does get exciting...

I like the look of this.

Just saw that they can play Qa5 and the get the pawn on e5. I think we may need to leave the queen on d2

 

[kutta]

Check out bxp, pxp, nxp. If they play qxp, rd8 or even rb6 are interesting. I think Bb5 is also in play because those knights get scary down there.

 

[otello]

You guys really want to dance, don't you?

 

[dancingbones]

Well, playing bxp, pxp, qxp sure does get exciting...

I like the look of this.

Just saw that they can play Qa5 and the get the pawn on e5. I think we may need to leave the queen on d2

What is protecting e5 right now?