Team Spotlight: Detroit Lions (1 Viewer)

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Calvins hands are fine. Absent the triple coverage those drops will go down. Go back and watch that video and see those hands (and almost always in 2x/3x coverage anyway) and tell me his hands are bad.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Calvins hands are fine. Absent the triple coverage those drops will go down. Go back and watch that video and see those hands (and almost always in 2x/3x coverage anyway) and tell me his hands are bad.

Ok this is annoying. Do yall even know defensive schemes? How could he be triple teamed? The only way I could think of is on a slant....or a deep dig(with both of these routes.....most good WR's would draw attention) with a CB man up on him....saftey close over the top(but if he is a few yards off it isn't double covered)....with a LB dropping in his zone underneath of that area.

A hook, out, comeback from his X position couldn't see double coverage really. A go route would only see double coverage over the top and most of the schemes don't account for a double coverage...they usually have the CB stopping in the flat and the saftey then takes the WR....or it's cover 3 with the CB and WR one on one.

I think Calvin is talented....so don't get me wrong there. But to simply state triple coverage...which would mean only 4 other defenders(outside of the 4 rushing and 3 on calvin) to cover the rest of the team....is simply inaccurate.

Double coverage happens sometimes but I find it rare that two or three guys constantly just follow Calvin Johnson around the field everywhere he goes. If that were the case send him on a deep route and have detroit beat the defense 10 on 9 every play....or 10 on 8 for all your triple coverage fans.

 

[jurb26]

go watch the tape. you are arguing theory, CJ is fact (video exhibit A) .

He's randy Moss but he went to Georgia Tech. Too many guys argue #'s, not enough have seen enough G Tech/Lions names to know how truly awesome he is.

I agree with benson and it's because of statements like this. Calvin is a great WR and player in his own right but comparing him to Moss, arguably the best ever, at this structure is simply ridiculous. If the expectation is that Calvin is the next Moss then he will never live up to the expectations. It seems that has been the expectation of many since he was a rookie too.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

go watch the tape. you are arguing theory, CJ is fact (video exhibit A) .

He's randy Moss but he went to Georgia Tech. Too many guys argue #'s, not enough have seen enough G Tech/Lions names to know how truly awesome he is.

I agree with benson and it's because of statements like this. Calvin is a great WR and player in his own right but comparing him to Moss, arguably the best ever, at this structure is simply ridiculous. If the expectation is that Calvin is the next Moss then he will never live up to the expectations. It seems that has been the expectation of many since he was a rookie too.

I have seen every Calvin game since he came into the NFL and he is as close to Moss as you can get. If you have any hope of ever having him on your dynasty roster you better get him this offseason.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

go watch the tape. you are arguing theory, CJ is fact (video exhibit A) .

He's randy Moss but he went to Georgia Tech. Too many guys argue #'s, not enough have seen enough G Tech/Lions names to know how truly awesome he is.

I agree with benson and it's because of statements like this. Calvin is a great WR and player in his own right but comparing him to Moss, arguably the best ever, at this structure is simply ridiculous. If the expectation is that Calvin is the next Moss then he will never live up to the expectations. It seems that has been the expectation of many since he was a rookie too.

I have seen every Calvin game since he came into the NFL and he is as close to Moss as you can get. If you have any hope of ever having him on your dynasty roster you better get him this offseason.

Randy Moss has had 9 seasons of 10 TD receptions or more....only 3 seasons < 10 in his career(yes that adds in Oakland).

Calvin Johnson has had 1 season of 10 TD receptions of more....and has had 2 seasons < 10 in his career(in 3 years).

Case closed.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

go watch the tape. you are arguing theory, CJ is fact (video exhibit A) .

He's randy Moss but he went to Georgia Tech. Too many guys argue #'s, not enough have seen enough G Tech/Lions names to know how truly awesome he is.

I agree with benson and it's because of statements like this. Calvin is a great WR and player in his own right but comparing him to Moss, arguably the best ever, at this structure is simply ridiculous. If the expectation is that Calvin is the next Moss then he will never live up to the expectations. It seems that has been the expectation of many since he was a rookie too.

I have seen every Calvin game since he came into the NFL and he is as close to Moss as you can get. If you have any hope of ever having him on your dynasty roster you better get him this offseason.

Randy Moss has had 9 seasons of 10 TD receptions or more....only 3 seasons < 10 in his career(yes that adds in Oakland).

Calvin Johnson has had 1 season of 10 TD receptions of more....and has had 2 seasons < 10 in his career(in 3 years).

Case closed.

Because obviously Minnesota Vikings of the late 90's/early 2000's = Detroit Lions of the late 2000'sWhich receiver was drafted onto a team featuring Randall Cunningham, Robert Smith and Cris Carter on offense already?

Which one was drafted onto a team featuring Jon Kitna, Kevin Jones and Shaun McDonald?

Imagine Moss played the first 3 years of his career in Oakland and you have Calvin Johnson. I will not debate this point endlessly I will just say what I have to everyone else on this issue. If you want Calvin, get him now. You won't be able to touch him after this season. Feel free to reference this thread after the season.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Randy Moss has had 9 seasons of 10 TD receptions or more....only 3 seasons < 10 in his career(yes that adds in Oakland).Calvin Johnson has had 1 season of 10 TD receptions of more....and has had 2 seasons < 10 in his career(in 3 years).Case closed.

Because obviously Minnesota Vikings of the late 90's/early 2000's = Detroit Lions of the late 2000'sWhich receiver was drafted onto a team featuring Randall Cunningham, Robert Smith and Cris Carter on offense already? Which one was drafted onto a team featuring Jon Kitna, Kevin Jones and Shaun McDonald?Imagine Moss played the first 3 years of his career in Oakland and you have Calvin Johnson. I will not debate this point endlessly I will just say what I have to everyone else on this issue. If you want Calvin, get him now. You won't be able to touch him after this season. Feel free to reference this thread after the season.

So you don't like to argue with facts...just opinions???Coming into a stacked team does hurt your #'s too. Don't forget about Jake Reed as well. But b/c he was THAT great he still put up crazy good #'s.As a rookie Rand Moss had 17 TD's on 69 catches.Calvin for his career has 21 TD's on 193 receptions.I think Calvin will be a good WR in this league...just not the great thing that Detroit fans are hoping.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

Randy Moss has had 9 seasons of 10 TD receptions or more....only 3 seasons < 10 in his career(yes that adds in Oakland).

Calvin Johnson has had 1 season of 10 TD receptions of more....and has had 2 seasons < 10 in his career(in 3 years).

Case closed.

Because obviously Minnesota Vikings of the late 90's/early 2000's = Detroit Lions of the late 2000'sWhich receiver was drafted onto a team featuring Randall Cunningham, Robert Smith and Cris Carter on offense already?

Which one was drafted onto a team featuring Jon Kitna, Kevin Jones and Shaun McDonald?

Imagine Moss played the first 3 years of his career in Oakland and you have Calvin Johnson. I will not debate this point endlessly I will just say what I have to everyone else on this issue. If you want Calvin, get him now. You won't be able to touch him after this season. Feel free to reference this thread after the season.

So you don't like to argue with facts...just opinions???

Coming into a stacked team does hurt your #'s too. Don't forget about Jake Reed as well. But b/c he was THAT great he still put up crazy good #'s.

As a rookie Rand Moss had 17 TD's on 69 catches.

Calvin for his career has 21 TD's on 193 receptions.

I think Calvin will be a good WR in this league...just not the great thing that Detroit fans are hoping.

In Moss' rookie year the Vikings scored 58 offensive touchdowns

The Lions over Calvin's 3 years have scored

2007 - 32 offensive TD's

2008 - 28 offensive TD's

2009 - 25 offensive TD's

So in 3 years the Detroit offense totaled 85 touchdowns. Spread over 3 years that is 28 a year.

So you mean to tell me there isn't more opportunity to score touchdowns on a team that puts up 58 TD's in a year than there is on a team that has a 3 year average of 28 TD's, with the HIGH being 32.

Of course your point would have been helped had you not cherry picked one year for Moss while including 3 for Calvin. Had you included all 3 of Moss' first 3 seasons, the offensive touchdowns per year for the Vikings drops all the way to a paltry 50.

How about this info....

In 1998 the Vikings passed for 41 TD's, of which Moss had 17

In 1999 the Vikings passed for 32 TD's, of which Moss had 11

In 2000 the Vikings passed for 33 TD's, of which Moss had 15

Total that up and you get 106 passing TD's, of which Moss scored 43.

Which means Moss scored 40.5% of his teams passing TD's over that span.

In 2007 the Lions passed for 19 TDs, of which Calvin had 4

In 2008 the Lions passed for 18 TD's, of which Calvin had 12

In 2009 the Lions passed for 16 TD's, of which Calvin had 5

Total that up and you get 53 passing TD's, of which Calvin scored 21

Which means Calvin scored 39.6% of his teams passing TD's over that span

If you want to throw stats out there, I suggest you make sure they actually support the argument you are making.

 

[TitansFan10]

Randy Moss has had 9 seasons of 10 TD receptions or more....only 3 seasons < 10 in his career(yes that adds in Oakland).

Calvin Johnson has had 1 season of 10 TD receptions of more....and has had 2 seasons < 10 in his career(in 3 years).

Case closed.

Because obviously Minnesota Vikings of the late 90's/early 2000's = Detroit Lions of the late 2000'sWhich receiver was drafted onto a team featuring Randall Cunningham, Robert Smith and Cris Carter on offense already?

Which one was drafted onto a team featuring Jon Kitna, Kevin Jones and Shaun McDonald?

Imagine Moss played the first 3 years of his career in Oakland and you have Calvin Johnson. I will not debate this point endlessly I will just say what I have to everyone else on this issue. If you want Calvin, get him now. You won't be able to touch him after this season. Feel free to reference this thread after the season.

So you don't like to argue with facts...just opinions???

Coming into a stacked team does hurt your #'s too. Don't forget about Jake Reed as well. But b/c he was THAT great he still put up crazy good #'s.

As a rookie Rand Moss had 17 TD's on 69 catches.

Calvin for his career has 21 TD's on 193 receptions.

I think Calvin will be a good WR in this league...just not the great thing that Detroit fans are hoping.

In Moss' rookie year the Vikings scored 58 offensive touchdowns

The Lions over Calvin's 3 years have scored

2007 - 32 offensive TD's

2008 - 28 offensive TD's

2009 - 25 offensive TD's

So in 3 years the Detroit offense totaled 85 touchdowns. Spread over 3 years that is 28 a year.

So you mean to tell me there isn't more opportunity to score touchdowns on a team that puts up 58 TD's in a year than there is on a team that has a 3 year average of 28 TD's, with the HIGH being 32.

Of course your point would have been helped had you not cherry picked one year for Moss while including 3 for Calvin. Had you included all 3 of Moss' first 3 seasons, the offensive touchdowns per year for the Vikings drops all the way to a paltry 50.

How about this info....

In 1998 the Vikings passed for 41 TD's, of which Moss had 17

In 1999 the Vikings passed for 32 TD's, of which Moss had 11

In 2000 the Vikings passed for 33 TD's, of which Moss had 15

Total that up and you get 106 passing TD's, of which Moss scored 43.

Which means Moss scored 40.5% of his teams passing TD's over that span.

In 2007 the Lions passed for 19 TDs, of which Calvin had 4

In 2008 the Lions passed for 18 TD's, of which Calvin had 12

In 2009 the Lions passed for 16 TD's, of which Calvin had 5

Total that up and you get 53 passing TD's, of which Calvin scored 21

Which means Calvin scored 39.6% of his teams passing TD's over that span

If you want to throw stats out there, I suggest you make sure they actually support the argument you are making.

Good posting. You are of course right. I'd put the guy on ignore. He is kind of cuckoo.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Randy Moss has had 9 seasons of 10 TD receptions or more....only 3 seasons < 10 in his career(yes that adds in Oakland).

Calvin Johnson has had 1 season of 10 TD receptions of more....and has had 2 seasons < 10 in his career(in 3 years).

Case closed.

Because obviously Minnesota Vikings of the late 90's/early 2000's = Detroit Lions of the late 2000'sWhich receiver was drafted onto a team featuring Randall Cunningham, Robert Smith and Cris Carter on offense already?

Which one was drafted onto a team featuring Jon Kitna, Kevin Jones and Shaun McDonald?

Imagine Moss played the first 3 years of his career in Oakland and you have Calvin Johnson. I will not debate this point endlessly I will just say what I have to everyone else on this issue. If you want Calvin, get him now. You won't be able to touch him after this season. Feel free to reference this thread after the season.

So you don't like to argue with facts...just opinions???

Coming into a stacked team does hurt your #'s too. Don't forget about Jake Reed as well. But b/c he was THAT great he still put up crazy good #'s.

As a rookie Rand Moss had 17 TD's on 69 catches.

Calvin for his career has 21 TD's on 193 receptions.

I think Calvin will be a good WR in this league...just not the great thing that Detroit fans are hoping.

In Moss' rookie year the Vikings scored 58 offensive touchdowns

The Lions over Calvin's 3 years have scored

2007 - 32 offensive TD's

2008 - 28 offensive TD's

2009 - 25 offensive TD's

So in 3 years the Detroit offense totaled 85 touchdowns. Spread over 3 years that is 28 a year.

So you mean to tell me there isn't more opportunity to score touchdowns on a team that puts up 58 TD's in a year than there is on a team that has a 3 year average of 28 TD's, with the HIGH being 32.

Of course your point would have been helped had you not cherry picked one year for Moss while including 3 for Calvin. Had you included all 3 of Moss' first 3 seasons, the offensive touchdowns per year for the Vikings drops all the way to a paltry 50.

How about this info....

In 1998 the Vikings passed for 41 TD's, of which Moss had 17

In 1999 the Vikings passed for 32 TD's, of which Moss had 11

In 2000 the Vikings passed for 33 TD's, of which Moss had 15

Total that up and you get 106 passing TD's, of which Moss scored 43.

Which means Moss scored 40.5% of his teams passing TD's over that span.

In 2007 the Lions passed for 19 TDs, of which Calvin had 4

In 2008 the Lions passed for 18 TD's, of which Calvin had 12

In 2009 the Lions passed for 16 TD's, of which Calvin had 5

Total that up and you get 53 passing TD's, of which Calvin scored 21

Which means Calvin scored 39.6% of his teams passing TD's over that span

If you want to throw stats out there, I suggest you make sure they actually support the argument you are making.

Finally some stats and I appreciate a thought out arguement.

However, Moss's talent and putting it into effect on the field MADE that offense tick.

1997(year before Moss) the Vikings had 40 offensive TD's(26 passing). 1998 as you stated 58 TD's(41 passing).

2006(year before CJ2) the Lions had 30 offensive TD's (21 passing). 2007 they had 32 TD's (19 passing).

Moss MADE that offense better....did Calvin make detroit's THAT much better???

ETA: 2008 Lions offense with Calvin posted 28 offensive TD's (18 passing).

2009 Lions offense with Calvin posted 25 offenisve TD's (16 passing).

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Good posting. You are of course right. I'd put the guy on ignore. He is kind of cuckoo.

So when people disagree with you...then you put them on ignore??? Wow, sound strategy...I will be waiting for your FF strategy

 

[Tau837]

Calvins hands are fine. Absent the triple coverage those drops will go down. Go back and watch that video and see those hands (and almost always in 2x/3x coverage anyway) and tell me his hands are bad.

8 drops are 8 drops. It's not ruled a drop unless he should have made the catch, so I don't think whether he is in double or triple coverage matters.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

go watch the tape. you are arguing theory, CJ is fact (video exhibit A) .

He's randy Moss but he went to Georgia Tech. Too many guys argue #'s, not enough have seen enough G Tech/Lions names to know how truly awesome he is.

I agree with benson and it's because of statements like this. Calvin is a great WR and player in his own right but comparing him to Moss, arguably the best ever, at this structure is simply ridiculous. If the expectation is that Calvin is the next Moss then he will never live up to the expectations. It seems that has been the expectation of many since he was a rookie too.

How big of you to speak in vague generalities, instead of looking at the evidence provided. Watch some tape on Calvin. He IS Randy Moss only smarter. I know people make these kind of claims about every dynasty phenom, but in this case its true. watch the tape. Note the talent, the speed (in space and breaking away from 2-3 chasing defenders through a seam). Note the size (6'5'') and vertical (46 "). Now watch the grace on route running. Now remember that all of this is as arguably the only weapon on the Lions (save kevin smith) with horrible OL play and horrible to average qb play.

Nowhere to go but up (save freak injury). He IS THAT GOOD.

watch the tape.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Calvins hands are fine. Absent the triple coverage those drops will go down. Go back and watch that video and see those hands (and almost always in 2x/3x coverage anyway) and tell me his hands are bad.

Ok this is annoying. Do yall even know defensive schemes? How could he be triple teamed? The only way I could think of is on a slant....or a deep dig(with both of these routes.....most good WR's would draw attention) with a CB man up on him....saftey close over the top(but if he is a few yards off it isn't double covered)....with a LB dropping in his zone underneath of that area.

A hook, out, comeback from his X position couldn't see double coverage really. A go route would only see double coverage over the top and most of the schemes don't account for a double coverage...they usually have the CB stopping in the flat and the saftey then takes the WR....or it's cover 3 with the CB and WR one on one.

I think Calvin is talented....so don't get me wrong there. But to simply state triple coverage...which would mean only 4 other defenders(outside of the 4 rushing and 3 on calvin) to cover the rest of the team....is simply inaccurate.

Double coverage happens sometimes but I find it rare that two or three guys constantly just follow Calvin Johnson around the field everywhere he goes. If that were the case send him on a deep route and have detroit beat the defense 10 on 9 every play....or 10 on 8 for all your triple coverage fans.

Oh and to address the triple team thing. Go watch the tape and see how many times there are 3 guys within 2 yards of him downfield. The Lions as a team were that bad. D's were putting cb/lb/safety on him quite a bit. That all the weak/young det qbs in the last few years have so heavily relied on him that it actually made sense. I know it sounds insane, but he was double covered 80% of the time and tripled 30/40% of the time (even higher in 'obvious' passing situations.Again you can argue general theory, or you can look at the tape.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

He IS Randy Moss only smarter.

I don't understand what this means. Two years ago BB said that Moss was both the smartest and most instinctive WR he's ever coached. I'm willing to bet that BB has a higher standard than you do, so I'm a bit confused by your comment above.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Randy Moss has had 9 seasons of 10 TD receptions or more....only 3 seasons < 10 in his career(yes that adds in Oakland).

Calvin Johnson has had 1 season of 10 TD receptions of more....and has had 2 seasons < 10 in his career(in 3 years).

Case closed.

Because obviously Minnesota Vikings of the late 90's/early 2000's = Detroit Lions of the late 2000'sWhich receiver was drafted onto a team featuring Randall Cunningham, Robert Smith and Cris Carter on offense already?

Which one was drafted onto a team featuring Jon Kitna, Kevin Jones and Shaun McDonald?

Imagine Moss played the first 3 years of his career in Oakland and you have Calvin Johnson. I will not debate this point endlessly I will just say what I have to everyone else on this issue. If you want Calvin, get him now. You won't be able to touch him after this season. Feel free to reference this thread after the season.

So you don't like to argue with facts...just opinions???

Coming into a stacked team does hurt your #'s too. Don't forget about Jake Reed as well. But b/c he was THAT great he still put up crazy good #'s.

As a rookie Rand Moss had 17 TD's on 69 catches.

Calvin for his career has 21 TD's on 193 receptions.

I think Calvin will be a good WR in this league...just not the great thing that Detroit fans are hoping.

In Moss' rookie year the Vikings scored 58 offensive touchdowns

The Lions over Calvin's 3 years have scored

2007 - 32 offensive TD's

2008 - 28 offensive TD's

2009 - 25 offensive TD's

So in 3 years the Detroit offense totaled 85 touchdowns. Spread over 3 years that is 28 a year.

So you mean to tell me there isn't more opportunity to score touchdowns on a team that puts up 58 TD's in a year than there is on a team that has a 3 year average of 28 TD's, with the HIGH being 32.

Of course your point would have been helped had you not cherry picked one year for Moss while including 3 for Calvin. Had you included all 3 of Moss' first 3 seasons, the offensive touchdowns per year for the Vikings drops all the way to a paltry 50.

How about this info....

In 1998 the Vikings passed for 41 TD's, of which Moss had 17

In 1999 the Vikings passed for 32 TD's, of which Moss had 11

In 2000 the Vikings passed for 33 TD's, of which Moss had 15

Total that up and you get 106 passing TD's, of which Moss scored 43.

Which means Moss scored 40.5% of his teams passing TD's over that span.

In 2007 the Lions passed for 19 TDs, of which Calvin had 4

In 2008 the Lions passed for 18 TD's, of which Calvin had 12

In 2009 the Lions passed for 16 TD's, of which Calvin had 5

Total that up and you get 53 passing TD's, of which Calvin scored 21

Which means Calvin scored 39.6% of his teams passing TD's over that span

If you want to throw stats out there, I suggest you make sure they actually support the argument you are making.

Exactly.

Plus go watch the tape. The one I provided isn't even Calvins best highlight reel. Not even close. But it does show all his skills (size, speed, HANDS, ability to ctahc ball in traffic, route running, goalline etc)

Plus that WR Reverse in the Middle is one of the flat out nicest I have seem in a while. the intelligence matters with CJ. he has all the natural ability (same as many defenders) But even as a young player he just seems to know where to slide to avoid the speedy defenders, and maybe where a slight alteration will give him that slight seem. Look at how many times he splits and losses good cb/saftey/lbs on those reels.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

He IS Randy Moss only smarter.

I don't understand what this means. Two years ago BB said that Moss was both the smartest and most instinctive WR he's ever coached. I'm willing to bet that BB has a higher standard than you do, so I'm a bit confused by your comment above.

Hmm. His coach said that huh? How about one went to marshall, and one went o georgia tech. One got kicked out of many schools and was passed on many teams due to his intelligence/maturity, and one went at the top largely due to his . Now Moss has obviously grown and improved and has amassed wisdom from years of experience in this stage of his career, and I bet CJ can do that too. But now way that Moss is smarter than CJ. Sight unseen you wanna bet their wunderlichs?

ETA That Calvin Johnson graduated from Georgia Tech in 3 years. I am now thinking he might smarter than the average FBG/MENSA member, not Just Randy Moss.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Calvins hands are fine. Absent the triple coverage those drops will go down. Go back and watch that video and see those hands (and almost always in 2x/3x coverage anyway) and tell me his hands are bad.

8 drops are 8 drops. It's not ruled a drop unless he should have made the catch, so I don't think whether he is in double or triple coverage matters.

Some of these were when injured. But IIRC most weren't Braylon Edwardsian drops, but drops with two guys draped/hitting him etc. I only recall 2 times last year where I felt that he should have had itand just flat out dropped it (and both were BOMBS)

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Good posting. You are of course right. I'd put the guy on ignore. He is kind of cuckoo.

So when people disagree with you...then you put them on ignore??? Wow, sound strategy...I will be waiting for your FF strategy

I think you are giving yourself too much credit. He is saying you are dumb/insane. Kind of akin to a college student who decides that although he could easily best the homeless guy in the quad in a debate on presidential politics, it would probably do him and his gpa better to go to class and engage in meaningful discussions with other students. While both can be fun and interesting on some level, the latter is probably a better idea (ed note: In college I occasionally did the former, usually with the crazy preachers, it was like screaming at fish in a barrel)

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Randy Moss has had 9 seasons of 10 TD receptions or more....only 3 seasons < 10 in his career(yes that adds in Oakland).

Calvin Johnson has had 1 season of 10 TD receptions of more....and has had 2 seasons < 10 in his career(in 3 years).

Case closed.

Because obviously Minnesota Vikings of the late 90's/early 2000's = Detroit Lions of the late 2000'sWhich receiver was drafted onto a team featuring Randall Cunningham, Robert Smith and Cris Carter on offense already?

Which one was drafted onto a team featuring Jon Kitna, Kevin Jones and Shaun McDonald?

Imagine Moss played the first 3 years of his career in Oakland and you have Calvin Johnson. I will not debate this point endlessly I will just say what I have to everyone else on this issue. If you want Calvin, get him now. You won't be able to touch him after this season. Feel free to reference this thread after the season.

So you don't like to argue with facts...just opinions???

Coming into a stacked team does hurt your #'s too. Don't forget about Jake Reed as well. But b/c he was THAT great he still put up crazy good #'s.

As a rookie Rand Moss had 17 TD's on 69 catches.

Calvin for his career has 21 TD's on 193 receptions.

I think Calvin will be a good WR in this league...just not the great thing that Detroit fans are hoping.

In Moss' rookie year the Vikings scored 58 offensive touchdowns

The Lions over Calvin's 3 years have scored

2007 - 32 offensive TD's

2008 - 28 offensive TD's

2009 - 25 offensive TD's

So in 3 years the Detroit offense totaled 85 touchdowns. Spread over 3 years that is 28 a year.

So you mean to tell me there isn't more opportunity to score touchdowns on a team that puts up 58 TD's in a year than there is on a team that has a 3 year average of 28 TD's, with the HIGH being 32.

Of course your point would have been helped had you not cherry picked one year for Moss while including 3 for Calvin. Had you included all 3 of Moss' first 3 seasons, the offensive touchdowns per year for the Vikings drops all the way to a paltry 50.

How about this info....

In 1998 the Vikings passed for 41 TD's, of which Moss had 17

In 1999 the Vikings passed for 32 TD's, of which Moss had 11

In 2000 the Vikings passed for 33 TD's, of which Moss had 15

Total that up and you get 106 passing TD's, of which Moss scored 43.

Which means Moss scored 40.5% of his teams passing TD's over that span.

In 2007 the Lions passed for 19 TDs, of which Calvin had 4

In 2008 the Lions passed for 18 TD's, of which Calvin had 12

In 2009 the Lions passed for 16 TD's, of which Calvin had 5

Total that up and you get 53 passing TD's, of which Calvin scored 21

Which means Calvin scored 39.6% of his teams passing TD's over that span

If you want to throw stats out there, I suggest you make sure they actually support the argument you are making.

Finally some stats and I appreciate a thought out arguement.

However, Moss's talent and putting it into effect on the field MADE that offense tick.

1997(year before Moss) the Vikings had 40 offensive TD's(26 passing). 1998 as you stated 58 TD's(41 passing).

2006(year before CJ2) the Lions had 30 offensive TD's (21 passing). 2007 they had 32 TD's (19 passing).

Moss MADE that offense better....did Calvin make detroit's THAT much better???

ETA: 2008 Lions offense with Calvin posted 28 offensive TD's (18 passing).

2009 Lions offense with Calvin posted 25 offenisve TD's (16 passing).

case in point. I've learned in said arguments with homeless men that could be gleaned from this post. Right up there with one of the dumbest logic[sic]al arguments made on this board,

 

[jurb26]

He IS Randy Moss only smarter.

I don't understand what this means. Two years ago BB said that Moss was both the smartest and most instinctive WR he's ever coached. I'm willing to bet that BB has a higher standard than you do, so I'm a bit confused by your comment above.

Sometimes you just have to know when someone isn't worth debating with. This is one of those times. It's unfortunate that the thread has been highjacked as much at it already has.

 

[Tau837]

It's unfortunate that the thread has been highjacked as much at it already has.

:XAny of the Detroit homers interested in posting some projections instead of bickering about Calvin Johnson?

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

It's unfortunate that the thread has been highjacked as much at it already has.

Any of the Detroit homers interested in posting some projections instead of bickering about Calvin Johnson?

I don't do projections, but I will give you mine for Calvin Johnson. 85 rec, 1400 yards, 14 TD's.

 

[Tau837]

It's unfortunate that the thread has been highjacked as much at it already has.

Any of the Detroit homers interested in posting some projections instead of bickering about Calvin Johnson?

I don't do projections, but I will give you mine for Calvin Johnson. 85 rec, 1400 yards, 14 TD's.

How many targets do you expect him to get? How many passing attempts do you expect the Lions to have?

 

[jurb26]

It's unfortunate that the thread has been highjacked as much at it already has.

Any of the Detroit homers interested in posting some projections instead of bickering about Calvin Johnson?

I'm not a Det homer but I'll take you up on your offer.QBs:Stafford: 299 completions, 515 attempts, 3475 yds, 21 Tds, 14 Ints, 45 carries, 225 yds, 1 Td.Hill: 15 completions, 25 attempts, 167 yds, 0 Tds, 1 IntStanton: 12 completions, 25 attempts, 155 yds, 0 Tds, 0 IntsRBs:Best: 189 carries, 850 yds, 5 Tds, 32 receptions, 272 yds, 1 Td.K. Smith: 130 carries, 494 yds, 4 Tds, 22 receptions, 198 yds, 1 Td.Morris: 38 carries, 160 yds, 0 Td, 8 receptions, 68 yds, 0 Tds.Other: 34 carries, 136 yds, 1 Td, 10 receptions, 80 yds, 0 Tds.WRs:C. Johnson: 81 receptions, 1215 yds, 10 Tds, 3 carries, 25 yds, 0 Tds. (included with other rushing stats).Burleson: 33 receptions, 347 yds, 3 Tds.B. Johnson: 32 receptions, 390 yds, 2 Tds.D. Williams: 15 receptions, 179 yds, 0 Tds.Other: 9 receptions, 88 yds, 0 TdsTEs:Scheffler: 42 receptions, 500 yds, 2 TdsPettigrew: 36 receptions, 407 yds, 2 Tds.Other: 6 receptions, 63 yds, 0 Tds.Total Passing: 326 completions, 565 attempts, 3797 yds, 21 Tds, 15 IntsTotal Rushing: 391 carries, 1640 yds, 11 Tds, 102 receptions, 2 Tds.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

He IS Randy Moss only smarter.

I don't understand what this means. Two years ago BB said that Moss was both the smartest and most instinctive WR he's ever coached. I'm willing to bet that BB has a higher standard than you do, so I'm a bit confused by your comment above.

Hmm. His coach said that huh? How about one went to marshall, and one went o georgia tech. One got kicked out of many schools and was passed on many teams due to his intelligence/maturity, and one went at the top largely due to his . Now Moss has obviously grown and improved and has amassed wisdom from years of experience in this stage of his career, and I bet CJ can do that too. But now way that Moss is smarter than CJ. Sight unseen you wanna bet their wunderlichs?

ETA That Calvin Johnson graduated from Georgia Tech in 3 years. I am now thinking he might smarter than the average FBG/MENSA member, not Just Randy Moss.

Your argument is so ridiculous either way. Anthony Dilweg was brilliant - he sucked as a QB. Just admit it - you made an absurd comment that has no bearing on Calvin's NFL potential, and the comment may not have been accurate anyway. Priceless.

 

[heidbrink]

Nate Burleson has a way of getting open. I think his individual stats and positive impact on the offense is being underrated.

 

[Tau837]

It's unfortunate that the thread has been highjacked as much at it already has.

Any of the Detroit homers interested in posting some projections instead of bickering about Calvin Johnson?

I'm not a Det homer but I'll take you up on your offer.QBs:Stafford: 299 completions, 515 attempts, 3475 yds, 21 Tds, 14 Ints, 45 carries, 225 yds, 1 Td.Hill: 15 completions, 25 attempts, 167 yds, 0 Tds, 1 IntStanton: 12 completions, 25 attempts, 155 yds, 0 Tds, 0 IntsRBs:Best: 189 carries, 850 yds, 5 Tds, 32 receptions, 272 yds, 1 Td.K. Smith: 130 carries, 494 yds, 4 Tds, 22 receptions, 198 yds, 1 Td.Morris: 72 carries, 309 yds, 1 Td, 8 receptions, 68 yds, 0 Tds.Other: 34 carries, 136 yds, 1 Td, 10 receptions, 80 yds, 0 Tds.WRs:C. Johnson: 81 receptions, 1215 yds, 10 Tds, 3 carries, 25 yds, 0 Tds. (included with other rushing stats).Burleson: 33 receptions, 347 yds, 3 Tds.B. Johnson: 32 receptions, 390 yds, 2 Tds.D. Williams: 15 receptions, 179 yds, 0 Tds.Other: 9 receptions, 88 yds, 0 TdsTEs:Scheffler: 42 receptions, 500 yds, 2 TdsPettigrew: 36 receptions, 407 yds, 2 Tds.Other: 6 receptions, 63 yds, 0 Tds.Total Passing: 326 completions, 565 attempts, 3797 yds, 21 Tds, 15 IntsTotal Rushing: 425 carries, 1789 yds, 12 Tds, 102 receptions, 2 Tds.

Good post. Couple comments.First off, you didn't add up your rushing attempts correctly. You are projecting 473 rushing attempts, not 425 (you ignored the non RB attempts).This leads me to the number of offensive plays you are projecting, which seems quite high.You didn't project sacks, but Detroit had 43 last year... I don't see it likely that they could end up with fewer than 35, which would be a 20% improvement over last season. Adding 35 sacks to your projections means you are projecting 1073 offensive plays.Last year, only two teams (Patriots and Dolphins) had more than 1054 offensive plays. Detroit had 1037 offensive plays... which happens to be the highest number the Lions have had in at least the past 20 years (I didn't look further back than that).You are projecting 64 more rushing attempts and 10 more completions than last year. Those increases would seem more likely to reduce their total number of offensive plays than increase them... the clock will be running a lot more between plays when Detroit is on offense.IMO you are probably projecting at least 50 more combined passing and rushing attempts than Detroit will have.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

It's unfortunate that the thread has been highjacked as much at it already has.

Any of the Detroit homers interested in posting some projections instead of bickering about Calvin Johnson?

I don't do projections, but I will give you mine for Calvin Johnson. 85 rec, 1400 yards, 14 TD's.

How many targets do you expect him to get? How many passing attempts do you expect the Lions to have?

I don't know. And I don't know.I personally do not value projections much. I am telling you that I think Calvin ends the year as WR #1. The specifics of that are rather inconsequential.

 

[jurb26]

It's unfortunate that the thread has been highjacked as much at it already has.

Any of the Detroit homers interested in posting some projections instead of bickering about Calvin Johnson?

I'm not a Det homer but I'll take you up on your offer.QBs:Stafford: 299 completions, 515 attempts, 3475 yds, 21 Tds, 14 Ints, 45 carries, 225 yds, 1 Td.Hill: 15 completions, 25 attempts, 167 yds, 0 Tds, 1 IntStanton: 12 completions, 25 attempts, 155 yds, 0 Tds, 0 IntsRBs:Best: 189 carries, 850 yds, 5 Tds, 32 receptions, 272 yds, 1 Td.K. Smith: 130 carries, 494 yds, 4 Tds, 22 receptions, 198 yds, 1 Td.Morris: 72 carries, 309 yds, 1 Td, 8 receptions, 68 yds, 0 Tds.Other: 34 carries, 136 yds, 1 Td, 10 receptions, 80 yds, 0 Tds.WRs:C. Johnson: 81 receptions, 1215 yds, 10 Tds, 3 carries, 25 yds, 0 Tds. (included with other rushing stats).Burleson: 33 receptions, 347 yds, 3 Tds.B. Johnson: 32 receptions, 390 yds, 2 Tds.D. Williams: 15 receptions, 179 yds, 0 Tds.Other: 9 receptions, 88 yds, 0 TdsTEs:Scheffler: 42 receptions, 500 yds, 2 TdsPettigrew: 36 receptions, 407 yds, 2 Tds.Other: 6 receptions, 63 yds, 0 Tds.Total Passing: 326 completions, 565 attempts, 3797 yds, 21 Tds, 15 IntsTotal Rushing: 425 carries, 1789 yds, 12 Tds, 102 receptions, 2 Tds.

Good post. Couple comments.First off, you didn't add up your rushing attempts correctly. You are projecting 473 rushing attempts, not 425 (you ignored the non RB attempts).This leads me to the number of offensive plays you are projecting, which seems quite high.You didn't project sacks, but Detroit had 43 last year... I don't see it likely that they could end up with fewer than 35, which would be a 20% improvement over last season. Adding 35 sacks to your projections means you are projecting 1073 offensive plays.Last year, only two teams (Patriots and Dolphins) had more than 1054 offensive plays. Detroit had 1037 offensive plays... which happens to be the highest number the Lions have had in at least the past 20 years (I didn't look further back than that).You are projecting 64 more rushing attempts and 10 more completions than last year. Those increases would seem more likely to reduce their total number of offensive plays than increase them... the clock will be running a lot more between plays when Detroit is on offense.IMO you are probably projecting at least 50 more combined passing and rushing attempts than Detroit will have.

Thanks for catching that. I meant to adjust Morris down to 38 carries but forgot to. Overall rushing should be:391 carries, 1640 yds, 11 Tds.

 

[Tau837]

It's unfortunate that the thread has been highjacked as much at it already has.

Any of the Detroit homers interested in posting some projections instead of bickering about Calvin Johnson?

I don't do projections, but I will give you mine for Calvin Johnson. 85 rec, 1400 yards, 14 TD's.

How many targets do you expect him to get? How many passing attempts do you expect the Lions to have?

I don't know. And I don't know.I personally do not value projections much. I am telling you that I think Calvin ends the year as WR #1. The specifics of that are rather inconsequential.

Well then, with all due respect, you are avoiding the point of these Team Spotlight threads. Your kind of projection is perfect for Player Spotlight threads, but the entire premise and purpose of Team Spotlight threads is to add more context to individual player projections.

 

[PhantomJB]

FYI, a revised version Mr. Tremblay's projections have appeared which put Calvin Johnson at WR #11 with 73/1,047/6 (vs. 67/973/6).

Of course, the "god vs. stud vs. bust" qualitative arguments may continue ad nauseum, but at least his figures are back within reason.

I say within reason because, using 2009 numbers, the previous projections would have put him at #27 (based on yds) with Brent Celek (76/971/8 in 2009). That was just too difficult to fathom given all the upgrades and projecting for a full season, but hopefully now we are back to just "reasonable people might disagree" and move on.

 

[Tau837]

It's unfortunate that the thread has been highjacked as much at it already has.

Any of the Detroit homers interested in posting some projections instead of bickering about Calvin Johnson?

I'm not a Det homer but I'll take you up on your offer.QBs:Stafford: 299 completions, 515 attempts, 3475 yds, 21 Tds, 14 Ints, 45 carries, 225 yds, 1 Td.Hill: 15 completions, 25 attempts, 167 yds, 0 Tds, 1 IntStanton: 12 completions, 25 attempts, 155 yds, 0 Tds, 0 IntsRBs:Best: 189 carries, 850 yds, 5 Tds, 32 receptions, 272 yds, 1 Td.K. Smith: 130 carries, 494 yds, 4 Tds, 22 receptions, 198 yds, 1 Td.Morris: 72 carries, 309 yds, 1 Td, 8 receptions, 68 yds, 0 Tds.Other: 34 carries, 136 yds, 1 Td, 10 receptions, 80 yds, 0 Tds.WRs:C. Johnson: 81 receptions, 1215 yds, 10 Tds, 3 carries, 25 yds, 0 Tds. (included with other rushing stats).Burleson: 33 receptions, 347 yds, 3 Tds.B. Johnson: 32 receptions, 390 yds, 2 Tds.D. Williams: 15 receptions, 179 yds, 0 Tds.Other: 9 receptions, 88 yds, 0 TdsTEs:Scheffler: 42 receptions, 500 yds, 2 TdsPettigrew: 36 receptions, 407 yds, 2 Tds.Other: 6 receptions, 63 yds, 0 Tds.Total Passing: 326 completions, 565 attempts, 3797 yds, 21 Tds, 15 IntsTotal Rushing: 425 carries, 1789 yds, 12 Tds, 102 receptions, 2 Tds.

Good post. Couple comments.First off, you didn't add up your rushing attempts correctly. You are projecting 473 rushing attempts, not 425 (you ignored the non RB attempts).This leads me to the number of offensive plays you are projecting, which seems quite high.You didn't project sacks, but Detroit had 43 last year... I don't see it likely that they could end up with fewer than 35, which would be a 20% improvement over last season. Adding 35 sacks to your projections means you are projecting 1073 offensive plays.Last year, only two teams (Patriots and Dolphins) had more than 1054 offensive plays. Detroit had 1037 offensive plays... which happens to be the highest number the Lions have had in at least the past 20 years (I didn't look further back than that).You are projecting 64 more rushing attempts and 10 more completions than last year. Those increases would seem more likely to reduce their total number of offensive plays than increase them... the clock will be running a lot more between plays when Detroit is on offense.IMO you are probably projecting at least 50 more combined passing and rushing attempts than Detroit will have.

Thanks for catching that. I meant to adjust Morris down to 38 carries but forgot to. Overall rushing should be:391 carries, 1640 yds, 11 Tds.

OK... but reducing Morris from 72 carries to 38 carries reduces your overall rushing attempts from 473 to 439 rushing attempts... not 391. You are still ignoring your projected non RB rushing attempts. And if you aren't changing anyone else's rushing totals, you are actually projecting 439/1890 and either 11 or 12 rushing TDs, depending on whether or not you decided to cut Morris's 1 projected TD.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Calvins hands are fine. Absent the triple coverage those drops will go down. Go back and watch that video and see those hands (and almost always in 2x/3x coverage anyway) and tell me his hands are bad.

Ok this is annoying. Do yall even know defensive schemes? How could he be triple teamed? The only way I could think of is on a slant....or a deep dig(with both of these routes.....most good WR's would draw attention) with a CB man up on him....saftey close over the top(but if he is a few yards off it isn't double covered)....with a LB dropping in his zone underneath of that area.

A hook, out, comeback from his X position couldn't see double coverage really. A go route would only see double coverage over the top and most of the schemes don't account for a double coverage...they usually have the CB stopping in the flat and the saftey then takes the WR....or it's cover 3 with the CB and WR one on one.

I think Calvin is talented....so don't get me wrong there. But to simply state triple coverage...which would mean only 4 other defenders(outside of the 4 rushing and 3 on calvin) to cover the rest of the team....is simply inaccurate.

Double coverage happens sometimes but I find it rare that two or three guys constantly just follow Calvin Johnson around the field everywhere he goes. If that were the case send him on a deep route and have detroit beat the defense 10 on 9 every play....or 10 on 8 for all your triple coverage fans.

Oh and to address the triple team thing. Go watch the tape and see how many times there are 3 guys within 2 yards of him downfield. The Lions as a team were that bad. D's were putting cb/lb/safety on him quite a bit. That all the weak/young det qbs in the last few years have so heavily relied on him that it actually made sense. I know it sounds insane, but he was double covered 80% of the time and tripled 30/40% of the time (even higher in 'obvious' passing situations.Again you can argue general theory, or you can look at the tape.

Play 1 (0:04)- Not double or triple teamed.....it's a zone.Play 2 (0:14)- Not double or triple teamed.....it looks a like man coverage on him with a zone everywhere else.

Play 3 (0:32)- Not double or triple teamed.....it is man coverage with the CB bailing on the snap, which made the slant so successful..also having the TE going vertical helped.

Play 4 (0:45)- Not double or triple teamed....it is man coverage on a go route.

Play 5 (0:54)- Not double or triple teamed....it is man coverage on a fade.

Play 6 (0:58)- Who knows it was a broken play.

Play 7 (1:10)- same play as earlier and single coverage

Play 8 (1:20)- he is double covered with the flat play dropping and jumping at the pass after it's in the air.

Play 9 (1:26)- corner route with help over the top....but from a distance

Play 10(1:49)- fade route....single coverage

Play 11(1:57)- nobody was around him as he caught the ball...so no coverage...lol

Play 12(2:05)- single coverage on a crossing route.

Play 13(2:30)- single coverage

Play 14 - same as play 8

Play 15(3:00)- it's a hail mary

I just went through 3 minutes of a highlight of Calvin and found one play that you could even call a legit double team.

Find me game film, if you want to prove your point....if not...stop being facetious with statements like he is double covered 80% of the time, etc.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Good posting. You are of course right. I'd put the guy on ignore. He is kind of cuckoo.

So when people disagree with you...then you put them on ignore??? Wow, sound strategy...I will be waiting for your FF strategy

I think you are giving yourself too much credit. He is saying you are dumb/insane. Kind of akin to a college student who decides that although he could easily best the homeless guy in the quad in a debate on presidential politics, it would probably do him and his gpa better to go to class and engage in meaningful discussions with other students. While both can be fun and interesting on some level, the latter is probably a better idea (ed note: In college I occasionally did the former, usually with the crazy preachers, it was like screaming at fish in a barrel)

Thank you for disproving yourself in the same paragraph.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Because obviously Minnesota Vikings of the late 90's/early 2000's = Detroit Lions of the late 2000's

Which receiver was drafted onto a team featuring Randall Cunningham, Robert Smith and Cris Carter on offense already?

Which one was drafted onto a team featuring Jon Kitna, Kevin Jones and Shaun McDonald?

Imagine Moss played the first 3 years of his career in Oakland and you have Calvin Johnson. I will not debate this point endlessly I will just say what I have to everyone else on this issue. If you want Calvin, get him now. You won't be able to touch him after this season. Feel free to reference this thread after the season.

So you don't like to argue with facts...just opinions???

Coming into a stacked team does hurt your #'s too. Don't forget about Jake Reed as well. But b/c he was THAT great he still put up crazy good #'s.

As a rookie Rand Moss had 17 TD's on 69 catches.

Calvin for his career has 21 TD's on 193 receptions.

I think Calvin will be a good WR in this league...just not the great thing that Detroit fans are hoping.

In Moss' rookie year the Vikings scored 58 offensive touchdowns

The Lions over Calvin's 3 years have scored

2007 - 32 offensive TD's

2008 - 28 offensive TD's

2009 - 25 offensive TD's

So in 3 years the Detroit offense totaled 85 touchdowns. Spread over 3 years that is 28 a year.

So you mean to tell me there isn't more opportunity to score touchdowns on a team that puts up 58 TD's in a year than there is on a team that has a 3 year average of 28 TD's, with the HIGH being 32.

Of course your point would have been helped had you not cherry picked one year for Moss while including 3 for Calvin. Had you included all 3 of Moss' first 3 seasons, the offensive touchdowns per year for the Vikings drops all the way to a paltry 50.

How about this info....

In 1998 the Vikings passed for 41 TD's, of which Moss had 17

In 1999 the Vikings passed for 32 TD's, of which Moss had 11

In 2000 the Vikings passed for 33 TD's, of which Moss had 15

Total that up and you get 106 passing TD's, of which Moss scored 43.

Which means Moss scored 40.5% of his teams passing TD's over that span.

In 2007 the Lions passed for 19 TDs, of which Calvin had 4

In 2008 the Lions passed for 18 TD's, of which Calvin had 12

In 2009 the Lions passed for 16 TD's, of which Calvin had 5

Total that up and you get 53 passing TD's, of which Calvin scored 21

Which means Calvin scored 39.6% of his teams passing TD's over that span

If you want to throw stats out there, I suggest you make sure they actually support the argument you are making.

Finally some stats and I appreciate a thought out arguement.

However, Moss's talent and putting it into effect on the field MADE that offense tick.

1997(year before Moss) the Vikings had 40 offensive TD's(26 passing). 1998 as you stated 58 TD's(41 passing).

2006(year before CJ2) the Lions had 30 offensive TD's (21 passing). 2007 they had 32 TD's (19 passing).

Moss MADE that offense better....did Calvin make detroit's THAT much better???

ETA: 2008 Lions offense with Calvin posted 28 offensive TD's (18 passing).

2009 Lions offense with Calvin posted 25 offenisve TD's (16 passing).

case in point. I've learned in said arguments with homeless men that could be gleaned from this post. Right up there with one of the dumbest logic[sic]al arguments made on this board,

If you can't see the point of that post, maybe you should move to the kiddie pool.

 

[karmarooster]

Nate Burleson has a way of getting open. I think his individual stats and positive impact on the offense is being underrated.

Wow with all this talk of Calvin I almost for the Lions had more than 1 WR! Actually I was just looking up Burleson stats and think he might be a good WR4/5 type useful for bye-weeks. Going back to his rookie season he's averaged about 4 catches per game started. Of course, some of those were as the WR1 on the team (for example 2004 Vikings - 68/1000/9). while he's the clear WR2 now, he has the benefit of playing against the CB2 and will never see a double team cos the safeties have to worry about Calvin and Best. If you extend that 4 per game per start to 16 starts, at his career YPC of 13.5, thats 64 receptions for 864 yards. I know MT usually projects WRs for 13 or 14 games started, but even still that's much higher than the 30 something here. Burleson does everything better than Bryant Johnson, and will catch a higher percentage of his targets than Calvin. value alert.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

He IS Randy Moss only smarter.

I don't understand what this means. Two years ago BB said that Moss was both the smartest and most instinctive WR he's ever coached. I'm willing to bet that BB has a higher standard than you do, so I'm a bit confused by your comment above.

Hmm. His coach said that huh? How about one went to marshall, and one went o georgia tech. One got kicked out of many schools and was passed on many teams due to his intelligence/maturity, and one went at the top largely due to his . Now Moss has obviously grown and improved and has amassed wisdom from years of experience in this stage of his career, and I bet CJ can do that too. But now way that Moss is smarter than CJ. Sight unseen you wanna bet their wunderlichs?

ETA That Calvin Johnson graduated from Georgia Tech in 3 years. I am now thinking he might smarter than the average FBG/MENSA member, not Just Randy Moss.

Your argument is so ridiculous either way. Anthony Dilweg was brilliant - he sucked as a QB. Just admit it - you made an absurd comment that has no bearing on Calvin's NFL potential, and the comment may not have been accurate anyway. Priceless.

That's fine. You think what you want. But your above argument seems to be that intelligence doesn't matter because one Qb wasn't an NFL player. Or maybe you don't understand the rigors of a tech/eng education. But there is no way that Moss is smarter that CJ. I'd bet a digit on it. And as for high intelligence having "no bearing on NFL potential", let's just say i disagree. It's not a prerequisite, but it always helps. especially when accompanying a 6'5 240 lb frame with sub 4.4 speed.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Nate Burleson has a way of getting open. I think his individual stats and positive impact on the offense is being underrated.

I am interested to see how this plays out. he was quite a boom/bust guy last year.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

That's fine. You think what you want. But your above argument seems to be that intelligence doesn't matter because one Qb wasn't an NFL player. Or maybe you don't understand the rigors of a tech/eng education. But there is no way that Moss is smarter that CJ. I'd bet a digit on it. And as for high intelligence having "no bearing on NFL potential", let's just say i disagree. It's not a prerequisite, but it always helps. especially when accompanying a 6'5 240 lb frame with sub 4.4 speed.

How do you measure intelligence then?