Team X Chess thread (1 Viewer)

[spOOfy]

Decided already, but I agree w a6 for black

 

[pizzatyme]

Black

Let's talk about what we do after their next logical moves:

Be2

Or a black B move

What y'all thinkun

 

[Sand]

Black

Let's talk about what we do after their next logical moves:

Be2

Or a black B move

What y'all thinkun

Black - Most of the time here I am thinking e5 or at least e6. We need to lay claim to part of the center.

White - still liking the Be3 move, for the most part. We have a huge pawn front to develop behind - I say we use it.

 

[Sand]

In our white game O has moved e5. Right up the gut with our expectations.

Reasonable lines are O-O, d5, Be3, Bg5. I still like Be3. It leaves us a lot of options to respond to their next move, and keeps our tempo well in front of black. If they move Nc3, we push d5. Bg4, and we push Bg5. Something else odd (a6, c6, etc.) and we move O-O.

 

[pizzatyme]

Bg5...hmmm...seems like I've heard that somewhere.

Honestly, I'm open here. I knew e5 was coming so that why I advocated for the Bg5 move.

I think it still applies as if the go h3 they severely weaken their pawn structure chasing the B.

But, I am open to the input if others as I'm a fish in shark infested waters here.

 

[Joe T]

Black

Let's talk about what we do after their next logical moves:

Be2

Or a black B move

What y'all thinkun

I need to look at it more today, but I think Qb6 is a good move for us as black. It will really start to open up play.

Edit: after looking at it a bit longer, I think e6, then Qb6 next.

 

[Joe T]

For white, I lean to d5.

Reasoning:

If we do any of the other moves O-O, Be3, Bg5.

Let's just assume Bg5.

Bg5 xd4

Nxd4 c5

What do we do when they challenge our knight on d4?

It looks to me like we've just given up control of 2 middle squares... and have to move back to Nf3.

I vote d5 as it protects the middle that we've staked our claim to early in this game.

OR

has anyone looked at if we just take his pawn xe5? It looks like we pick up a pawn, exchange queens, and lose some middle control?

(too many options here, ugh)

 

[pizzatyme]

White

e5 looks like a nice option here as it controls his black B, and keeps them from trading pawns. I don't prefer our B to be on d4 bu that's me.

 

[Joe T]

White

e5 looks like a nice option here as it controls his black B, and keeps them from trading pawns. I don't prefer our B to be on d4 bu that's me.

you mean g5?

 

[pizzatyme]

White

dxe5 is an option. It wins a pawn but as Joe said, at what expense? I like it.

 

[pizzatyme]

White

e5 looks like a nice option here as it controls his black B, and keeps them from trading pawns. I don't prefer our B to be on d4 bu that's me.

you mean g5?

d5, sorry.

 

[pizzatyme]

White,

To me the 3 options in my order of preference:

dxe5

d5

Bg5

Be3 for Sand.

 

[Joe T]

White,

To me the 3 options in my order of preference:

dxe5

d5

Bg5

Be3 for Sand.

I agree with your top 2, but I have them reversed. I think d5 is best because I understand it better. dxe5 leads to many more alternatives.

If we went d5, then I see Bg5 next to pin his knight.

Maybe I need to walk through dxe5 more.

 

[Sand]

White,

To me the 3 options in my order of preference:

dxe5

d5

Bg5

Be3 for Sand.

I need to study more, but looking over it quick my order of preference at the moment would be:

Be3

O-O

d5

Bg5

dxe5

Not really liking the dxe5. This is looking like a closed game while the other is looking much more open. I like the contrast.

Bg5 - I think we may end up there, but don't see the reason to hem in the dark bishop over on that side. It is also likely that we end up moving d5 at some point, and that means we would really like that bishop in the middle.

d5 - it is an aggressive line and lays claim to all light squares in the middle. It cedes dark squares, particularly d4 and c5. Another reason I like Be3.

O-O - good development move and now seems a good time to do this. Should be on the list of consideration.

Be3 - keeps some control of dark squares when d5 will happen pretty soon. Wouldn't mind going d5 then Be3, though. I don't know if the order matters much here.

 

[Joe T]

The more I look at and go through dxe5 the more I like it. I'll run through it a few more times, but I like our pos ition at the end of the exchanges. Again, only negative is we trade queens.

 

[Sand]

Ok, let's look at a few lines of Be3 and why I like it.

Be3 Ng4

Bg5 f6

Bh4

Here we've closed off the dark bishop from the center and can develop from there.

Be3 Nc6

d5 Ne7

Nd2

Here we are clearly controlling the middle and can bring the knight over to assault the queen side. Again I like our control here.

Be3 exd4

Nxd4 Re8

f3

Love this spot. White is way ahead in development. Would love to see this develop.

Be3 Na6

O-O c6, Ng4

Black is a bit better here, IMO, but white is still ahead. I can see black bringing his knight to e6 after c6 (two moves) to position him while white develops even more. If Ng4, then Bg5.

Be3 c6

d5 Ng4

And we go down the same roads.

Evidently in this defense black likes to push pawns on the king side to swarm white. Be3 gives lots of options to counter these initial moves and put him in bad spots no matter which he chooses.

Counters to this?

 

[pizzatyme]

I'd prefer not to give up the d pawn.

How about we consider d5, O-O, and B to either e3 or g5 as our next 3 moves.

I think d5 facilitates Be3 soon thereafter.

Thoughts?

 

[Joe T]

Thanks for posting the lines. Counter:

replace Re8 with C5 for them. Everytime I run through Be3 thats the point I run into.

 

[pizzatyme]

Sand, just saw your last post. Let me run through those scenarios again.

 

[pizzatyme]

I think c5 we would go Nb5 and attack the d pawn.

 

[Joe T]

I think c5 we would go Nb5 and attack the d pawn.

Yes, but if we took the d pawn our knight would be trapped.

 

[pizzatyme]

I think c5 we would go Nb5 and attack the d pawn.

Ye, but if we took the d pawn our knight would be trpped.

I don't see that. Maybe I'm not following...

Be3 dxe4

Nxe4 c5

Nb5 a6?

Nxd6 At this point I don't see how it's trapped? If he goes Ne8 we go Nxe8 with the threat of exchanging Qs. We'd be up a pawn. With lots of options there.

 

[Sand]

Thanks for posting the lines. Counter:

replace Re8 with C5 for them. Everytime I run through Be3 thats the point I run into.

In high level games c5 isn't mentioned at all. Maybe Nc2 and covers those spots and develops from there. Or

Nxd6 Ne8 Black must cover c7 or we hop back to b5 and threaten the rook on a8. From there exchange of queens and white Bf4 and we really put pressure on c7 and a8 rook. Or we just take the bishop or knight and end up with a pawn advantage.

As far as d5 now I still see giving up on c5 and d4 to be a liability. In high level games black does much better under d5 than other variants.

 

[pizzatyme]

I want to shove pawns or brazenly toss pieces around and Sand is peeing in my Wheaties.

Let's go back to Be3. I'll defer to Sand (for now!) haha

 

[pizzatyme]

And c5 isn't mentioned because of Nb5 threatening to win the d6 pawn!

 

[Joe T]

I think c5 we would go Nb5 and attack the d pawn.

Ye, but if we took the d pawn our knight would be trpped.

I don't see that. Maybe I'm not following...

Be3 dxe4

Nxe4 c5

Nb5 a6?

Nxd6 At this point I don't see how it's trapped? If he goes Ne8 we go Nxe8 with the threat of exchanging Qs. We'd be up a pawn. With lots of options there.

Good point. I was wrong here. Not exactly trapped, but close. Knight has no free moves.

Following your line:

Be3 dxe4

Nxe4 c5

Nb5 a6

Nxd6 Qc7?

e5?

Maybe we are not in that bad of shape here. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Joe T]

Also want to mention, we can't go Nb5 in this line:

Be3 dxe4
Nxe4 c5
Nb5 Ne8

Ne8 protects his d pawn and now our knight, while not trapped, is way out of position queen side. I still think we are behind if they play c5, but I'm not as convinced as I was earlier.

I'm happy with any of the three moves we've mentioned.

 

[Joe T]

after further review, maybe Be3 is best here...

please disregard my earlier ramblings.

ETA: I'm switching my vote to Be3. It is solid.

 

[pizzatyme]

If he goes Ne8 to protect a pawn, I'd be very happy with that. Talk about being out of position. Plus his rook would be stuck on f8.

 

[Joe T]

If he goes Ne8 to protect a pawn, I'd be very happy with that. Talk about being out of position. Plus his rook would be stuck on f8.

agree. I had to look at it some more, but we would be in good shape.

 

[Sand]

That is 3 for Be3. I'm doing that. O has not put in a move in out black game.

BTW, for our opening, E92: King's Indian, Gligoric-Taimanov system, the stats among the noted players using it are:

White: 47%

Draw: 31%

Black: 22%

So at least statistically we have maneuvered into an opening with a lot of opportunities for white to do very well.

 

[pizzatyme]

Black

White has moved. Any guesses???

You got it, Bg5!

I think that is my new favorite move! Ha!!

 

[pizzatyme]

Black, I believe the standard line is e5 here. Seems sound.

 

[Sand]

Black, I believe the standard line is e5 here. Seems sound.

e5, e6, Nbd7, Nc6. At first blush I kinda like Nc6 then e5.

e6 is the most common line, BTW.

 

[pizzatyme]

I'm good with this line as well.

 

[Sand]

I'm good with this line as well.

Still need to go through the lines. Look forward to Joe's and others' inputs here.

 

[Joe T]

e5 appears obvious and best to me. e6 also makes sense.

I'm not sure I understand Nc6. If we did that wouldn't they just exchange our knight on f6? Then we are stuck with a stacked pawn there and a lonely pawn on d6 that we have to defend throughout the early part of the game?

I don't see the advantage of Nc6, but I could be missing something again.

 

[Sand]

e5 appears obvious and best to me. e6 also makes sense.

I'm not sure I understand Nc6. If we did that wouldn't they just exchange our knight on f6? Then we are stuck with a stacked pawn there and a lonely pawn on d6 that we have to defend throughout the early part of the game?

I don't see the advantage of Nc6, but I could be missing something again.

Of the two I'd prefer e6. e5 cedes the d5 outpost to the white knight.

e5

Bxf6 Qxf6

Nd5 Qd8

Ick. That cedes a lot of tempo to white having to retreat the Q all the way back. I'll give up on Nc6, but I really don't like this line. I'd much prefer

e6

f4 Be7

Qf3 h6

Or something similar. Thoughts?

(I still like Nc6, but that can come later if we don't want the doubled pawn on the f row).

 

[pizzatyme]

I'm good with e6. At some point I hope we can jump off the "book" line to create complexity.

I have to think they are utilizing similar (if not the same) resources and we need to get them thinking!

Just my opinion.

 

[Joe T]

agree with both of you.

 

[Sand]

I'm good with e6. At some point I hope we can jump off the "book" line to create complexity.

I have to think they are utilizing similar (if not the same) resources and we need to get them thinking!

Just my opinion.

I agree, I just don't think this move is it. In the opening book e6 is by far the most popular response and I believe there is a good reason for that.

We have three, so I am going with e6. No response yet in our white game.

 

[pizzatyme]

Black

Nc6 looks good here.

 

[Sand]

Black

Nc6 looks good here.

I hope you are talking move 7. ;-) I already moved e6 in move 6.

Ok, NOW we can think about alternate moves as black here. There are large number of lines that all work here. Question is where we want to go. Options are:

Be7, Bd7, Qb6, Qc7, Nbd7, b5, a6

I'm going to start looking through to see what I like - look forward to what everyone else sees in these options. Now we get a chance to #### them over.

 

[pizzatyme]

In my game they've moved c4.

 

[Sand]

In my game they've moved c4.

Not possible - c file is blocked by their knight. In the official moves they moved f4 to support the bishop on g5.

 

[pizzatyme]

Sorry f4.

 

[pizzatyme]

White

Bg5 in hopes he chases the B with his pawns opening his K side.

Or d5 and let him take the Bishop doubling our pawns but opening the f file

Or dxe5

I like Bg5 best but will defer

 

[pizzatyme]

Black

Qg6 looks best to me.

Or Ne7

 

[nysfl2]

Black

Qb6 (I assume that's what pizza meant) probably just triggers b3, Not sure how much we gain there, as it opens our queen up to attack.

Be7 looks good, as does h8, with designs on setting up our king side castle and defense. h8 forces him to do something with that bishop, which could help pacing.

Nd7 also looks OK (assuming we're talking about queenside N ), but I worry a little about pinning our white bishop in.

 

[pizzatyme]

h8 looks good upon further review.