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Tell me more about Ron DeSantis (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
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ZADO
Footballguy
Just stop
DeSantis said Thursday he did not anticipate any problems for parents in Florida who want to secure vaccines for their children, noting that the demand for the vaccine among adults in the state has waned in recent months. He suggested parents can get vaccines for their children through doctors or hospitals.
"The state of Florida has had the recommendation from five and up for a while. We are the first state to do that. And now, from the 6 months to 5, the state's recommendation holds," DeSantis said. "It's a recommendation against doing it. That's different than saying you can't. You are free to choose; that's not an issue."
The Commish
Footballguy
Yeah, this state doesn't give a #### about the vaccine for the most part. We've had so many more deaths and hospitalizations AFTER the vaccine was available then before it was available. Think about that for a minute.
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Joe Mammy
Footballguy
Why? Would you go to Dr. Ladapo? Goober's personally appointed quack???
The Florida Department of Health says it did not order vaccine supplies from the federal government in part because it doesn't recommend shots for all kids. The state's surgeon general is an outspoken skeptic of the covid vaccine. Meanwhile, the other 49 states prepare for the much-anticipated rollout to youngsters.
ZADO
Footballguy
you must have missed the part about they can get it at the hospital or thru their doctor
Joe Mammy
Footballguy
I didn't miss it. The physician has to order from the state. The state has to order from the Feds. Every other state already has a supply.
Autocrat opposing the feds at every opp. Plain to see.
ZADO
Footballguy
Children in Florida can still get the vaccine once it’s made available through pharmacies that partner with the federal government, such as CVS.
“Doctors can order vaccines if they are in need, and there are currently no orders in the Department’s ordering system for the COVID-19 vaccine for this age group,” the statement said.
It`s literally no different than the flu vaccine distribution ,you go to a doctor or the pharmacy
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ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I'm on record as believing childhood vaccines are a low-stakes decision, so while I disagree with this DeSantis move, I'm not going into high dudgeon over it. But can we once and for all dispense with this story that non-MAGA DeSantis supporters have been telling themselves that he's not anti-vax, just anti-mandate? I don't know if it's motivated by his extremist ideology or cynical political calculation (probably a mixture of both), but DeSantis has decided he's not going to let anyone get to his right as he courts the anti-vax, Q-curious MAGA base. He appointed a rabidly anti-vax surgeon general, and literally changed the DOH website so that when you went to the section on vaccines, the first thing it talked about was monoclonal antibodies, which are not vaccines.
And while the stuff with kids may be low-stakes, as @The Commish has pointed out, Florida's death rate has gotten significantly worse relative to other states over the past year, and a lot of that is due to lower boost rates among seniors. DeSantis did a good job of getting seniors vaxxed initially back in early '21, but as he started going full Boebert he stopped pushing it for anyone (refusing to even say if he himself had been boosted) and rates for seniors stagnated just in time for Omicron.
Anyway, he's getting what he wants with this kid-vaccine issue, as he gets to flaunt his MAGA bonafides vs. the Noems and Abbots (not to mention Trumps) of the world by being the most vociferously anti-vax. And of course the criticism he gets from the lib'rul media only earns him more cred with the base
And while the stuff with kids may be low-stakes, as @The Commish has pointed out, Florida's death rate has gotten significantly worse relative to other states over the past year, and a lot of that is due to lower boost rates among seniors. DeSantis did a good job of getting seniors vaxxed initially back in early '21, but as he started going full Boebert he stopped pushing it for anyone (refusing to even say if he himself had been boosted) and rates for seniors stagnated just in time for Omicron.
Anyway, he's getting what he wants with this kid-vaccine issue, as he gets to flaunt his MAGA bonafides vs. the Noems and Abbots (not to mention Trumps) of the world by being the most vociferously anti-vax. And of course the criticism he gets from the lib'rul media only earns him more cred with the base
The Commish
Footballguy
This is exactly correct in my view. More political theater. Once he got attention of the spotlight he was hooked and does whatever's necessary to stay in it. I don't particularly care one way or the other about this "decision" but the way the media machine is set up in this country it's perfect for clicks and does nothing all that meaningful.
Wait, I thought we weren't blaming Biden for having more Covid deaths on his watch post vaccine than Trump had. Now we are blaming politicians again?
Consistency people!
The Commish
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Below is the post you quoted....word for word.
It is crystal clear that this is a comment to the attitude of the state in general. You're trying to hard....start over.
When you said "this state" I misinterpreted that you meant its governor, health dept, leaders, etc. Reading it again, I can see it the way you meant and while I don't think it was crystal clear I will apologize for my misinterpretation.
The Commish
Footballguy
No worries....for future reference, you can rest assured I lay things at the feet of people specifically if that's my intention. That said, those people are ALL included in "this state". They don't care. That of course is not "blaming" them for anything. It's merely pointing out that they don't care. So even if I had singled them out and said they specifically don't care, I'm still not blaming them for anything. Ultimately, it's up to the people to make the right choices and we seem to have a tough time doing that in this state as evidence in our death numbers prior to vaccine vs death numbers once vaccines were available shows.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I think there are plenty of criticisms one can make of how Biden has handled Covid, and I also think in general the guy in charge is going to take some heat if things aren't going well (I haven't dug into enough polls to know if this is true, but I strongly suspect that, along with inflation, Afghanistan, etc., one of the things that's dragged his poll numbers down has been the nagging feeling that things aren't yet back to normal, which is what he ran on.)
Meanwhile, if you look at my posts in the Florida politics thread over the past year, I have really tried to avoid catastrophizing every DeSantis decision. I think there are some things he did well (keeping schools open, prioritizing seniors with the initial vaccine rollout) and some bad things that weren't necessarily his fault (eg, Delta hitting Florida last summer right as people were spending more time indoors).
But what I was talking about in my earlier post was one time when there's a pretty straight line between his actions and negative consequences. A year ago, I and many others were calling out his increasingly anti-vax rhetoric. There were press reports at the dawn of Omicron that the boost rate among seniors was lagging other states. And sure enough, once Omicron did come through Florida had a disproportionately higher case fatality rate. So this is not some sort of post-hoc rationale of trying to assign him blame for a bad thing that happened on his watch. It was all very much predictable and predicted.
What's more, this is judging DeSantis by the very standard he set for himself. Since almost the beginning of the pandemic, he latched onto the so-called Great Barrington Thesis that Covid wasn't a big deal for most of the population and we should be focusing our efforts on "protecting the vulnerable". That was what led him to prioritize seniors during the initial vaccine rollout. But by the time boosters came around, he had gone so far around the anti-vax bend that he refused to push them for anyone, even the most vulnerable. As a result, he failed to protect them, and more of them died.
The Commish
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
This is Ron's moment to reach for the stars. With every revelation of the January 6 committee, he inches ever closer to his party's nomination.
All he has to do is maintain the fealty to MAGA, give the occasionally vacuous nod to the "importance of democracy" and let his external opposition destroy his internal opposition for him.
All he has to do is maintain the fealty to MAGA, give the occasionally vacuous nod to the "importance of democracy" and let his external opposition destroy his internal opposition for him.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I was living in NY in 2010 when a similar dynamic played out. David Paterson had become governor when Elliot Spitzer resigned. Andrew Cuomo (then AG) was thirsting for the job, but he had a problem: He had ticked off a lot of Black politicians and voters by running a doomed effort for governor back in 2002 against Carl McCall. McCall, who ended up winning the nomination only to have his hat handed to him by George Pataki, was the first-ever Black nominated for statewide office in NY, and it was widely seen as his "turn", so Cuomo's primary challenge engendered a lot of bad blood. He couldn't afford to repeat that mistake by challenging another Black politician.
Fortunately for Cuomo, Patterson ended up imploding on his own over a few minor scandals (I never heard any evidence that Cuomo fed those stories to the press, but it wouldn't surprise me in any way to hear that he was behind them). None of the scandals were earth shattering -- I think one involved baseball tickets -- but they contributed to an overall view that Paterson was an accidental governor who was out of his depth. Anyway, he announced he wouldn't run for a full term, which gave Cuomo his opening, and he ended up cruising to the governor's mansion in the fall.
I feel like that's similar to what's going on with DeSantis. If he can just figure out a way to get past Trump, I suspect he would easily win the nomination. But man, that's a big "if".
So yeah, I suspect DeSantis would like nothing better than for the Jan. 6 Commission to do his dirty work for him.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I find it kind of odd that you think Trump would be such a horrible general election candidate, but also that he would win. My working assumption would be that his first two races were both pretty much coin flips -- largely because of how much he polarizes the electorate -- and the same would be true if he ran again.
As for the prospect of DeSantis winning the nomination, I'm on record as saying that if you could show me with mathematical certainty that DeSantis would have a 70% chance in the general whereas Trump would only have a 30% chance, I'd still probably prefer DeSantis win it because I think another Trump candidacy would be that dangerous.
But best outcome? I guess your post made me realize that there really is no "best outcome". I mean, I suppose the best outcome from my POV would be Romney or Kinzinger or Kasich, but that's obviously not going to happen. I think DeSantis' "competent Trumpism", even if I'd prefer it to the uncut original version, would still be incredibly dangerous. He's a very rigid ideologue, and I'm not entirely sold on his commitment to democratic pluralism. On the other hand, I don't think he's personally corrupt, nor do I think he would try to commandeer the ship of state for his own personal benefit. But I do think he'd do it for his own political benefit. So maybe less Trump, more Orban? Still not very reassuring.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
DeSantis reverses, allowing Florida healthcare providers to order vaccines for kids
I don't really care about this semantic dispute over whether they caved or not, but I'm genuinely surprised to see him not going all out to attack his enemies. No idea if there's any broader significance there
Well 2024 is a long way from now, but it's looking pretty poor for the democrats. I see democrats losing ground big time on both economic and cultural issues and don't see it improving until they change their message in a significant way or until republicans blow it again. Then there is the mess of who will actually be the dem. nominee, apparently if Trump is running Biden will run again.
We agree that Trump come with ridiculous baggage and unfavourability in the general election. But the reason I think he is a horrible general election candidate is because I would never vote for him in any circumstance. I'm not a big fan of Trumpism but I view Trump himself as an entirely different beast. DeSantis is the most likely candidate to purge us of Trump in 2024, so he has my full support.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Interesting. How do you see DeSantis as being able to "purge" the GOP of Trump?
I disagree -- I see him more as a Trump 2.0 -- but I'm genuinely curious to hear more about this perspective.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Long New Yorker profile of DeSantis. I think it does a good job of capturing his political skill as well as his social awkwardness.
The most interesting thing to me is that they got Trump to go on the record talking about him:
The most interesting thing to me is that they got Trump to go on the record talking about him:
The Commish
Footballguy
He made it crystal clear over the last few days that they are AGAINST giving the shots to kids. Of course, he attributes the position to "analysis" done by Ladapo, but that's the only thing he'll say on the topic. He doesn't want the state to be any part of the equation for vaccinating these kids. So much for helping parents do what they think is correct for their children
glvsav37
Footballguy
seems like these 2 statements contradict each other.He doesn't want the state to be any part of the equation for vaccinating these kids.
So much for helping parents do what they think is correct for their children
State cant tell you to covid-vax your kid < > I'll do what I think is best for my child.
The Commish
Footballguy
First thing I'll say is "he doesn't want the state to be any part of the equation" does not translate to "state can't tell you to covid-vax your kid".
The second thing I'll say is when the guy says "parents are best equipped to make the decisions for their kids", I'd expect that if he genuinely believes this, the state should be there to help in either decision as a support role. If that's a law saying you can't force a parent to vax their kid, fine. If that's making it as easy as possible for a parent to get their hands on a vaccine, that would be their job too. You make the choices equally available and easy.
All said, to be fair, his absolutism has created all this and his one sided decisions have been obvious from the beginning. As long as he doubles down on "parents know what's best" it should be pointed out that he is only really supporting parents that "know best" when he agrees with them. And this isn't a new approach. He's been doing this from the very beginning of the pandemic where he punted to local municipalities and businesses to make decisions only later to make laws/rules that preventing them from making the decisions he doesn't like. It was easy when science and narrative matched relatively well. We they began to diverge, he chose narrative like politicians typically do.
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glvsav37
Footballguy
I'm not a FL resident so I cant comment on the localized lawmaking/policy nuances.
but yes, I agree, if he wants the parents to choose, the state should be providing the resources whichever way they choose. I said what I said b/c its in contrast to here in NY where the state is mandating everything related to the virus and its "do it or GTFO" kind of mentality here.
The Commish
Footballguy
I get it...here it's "make your own choices as long as they are the ones we think are best". Both are authoritarian approaches, just with different wrappers.
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ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Yeah, the libertarian, pro-parent angle worked for him for awhile, but it's become pretty clear that his goal above all others is to demonstrate to the anti-vaxxers that he's with them.
I get it...here it's "make your own choices as long as they are the ones we think are best". Both are authoritarian approaches, just with different wrappers.
My position is based the belief that there is only one Trump, and he needs to be removed from political discussion, the sooner the better. He is just too divisive, unstable, has ridiculous baggage, and while virtually all politicians are narcissists, I can't think of anyone who compares. Certainly Trumpism will remain in the Republican party, but I don't see anyone who can carry that brand the way Trump has - imagine another politician lying as much as Trump did, in a way everyone knew he was lying, and not taking reputational damage.
I don't see Republicans nominating Pence or another from the old guard, the party has turned the page. The current brand of Republican is going to win big in 2022 and will have all the momentum in 2024. DeSantis becomes the obvious replacement for Trump in 2024, and I agree with others that he has taken positions to stand out from the crowd and own the libs. And IMO the libs fully deserve owning.
So the Republican party is going to be Trumpy going forward, but we will all be much better off without Trump's involvement in US politics. We really just need to get past the 2024 election cycle.
massraider
Footballguy
Teachers alarmed by state’s infusing religion, downplaying race in civics training
In which Ron DeSantis tries to infuse some religion and whitewash slavery in Florida civic lessons.
In which Ron DeSantis tries to infuse some religion and whitewash slavery in Florida civic lessons.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
The one I thought of first:
"
"Throughout the sessions, teachers said, facilitators emphasized that most enslaved people in the country were born into slavery and that the colonies didn’t buy nearly as many enslaved people during the transatlantic slave trade as has been portrayed, Ahlbum said. The framing, she added, felt as though America was being characterized as “less bad” when it came to slavery."
LawFitz
Footballguy
Per the link in your post...
"Why did FL have so much higher death rates? Obviously, FL has a somewhat older population But that's not the full explanation"
---
Or maybe it is.
0.5 dead per 100,000 at Omicron peak. 1.0 in FL. That is noise IMHO, especially given the difference in age demos.
The Commish
Footballguy
I think my favorite part is probably the part where they didn't provide the supporting documentation for their claims.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
That really isn’t helpful. Which specific claims didn’t have documentation?
The Commish
Footballguy
Well, now I can't get to the article and this was weeks ago so I don't remember the specifics. If I remember correctly, a good majority of the presentation had little/no supporting documentation. Many opinions asserted as fact.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Actually Donald has proven to be very magnanimous
skol asylum
Footballguy
LOLs
Desantis has BDE. Ask your kids what that means says Kari Lake. The GOP was the party of family. Let's see if DeSantis shuts her down or asks for a lap dance.
>>Lake, during a Turning Point Action rally with Ron DeSantis, captivated the crowd with her high-minded appreciation of the Florida governor’s attributes.
“The guy has bigger ... Wait, let me think about how I want to word this. My staff always says, ‘Whatever you do, do not say balls.’ So I'm not going to say it. That guy has a backbone made of steel.
I’ll tell you what he’s got. I don’t know if you’d heard of this. He’s got ‘BDE.’ Anybody know what that means? Ask your kids about it later.”
“I call it ‘Big DeSantis Energy.’ Right? He’s got the same kind of BDE that President Trump has. And, frankly, he’s got the same kind of BDE that we want all of our elected leaders to have.”
Kari Lake sizes up Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis ... by what's in their pants?
>>Lake, during a Turning Point Action rally with Ron DeSantis, captivated the crowd with her high-minded appreciation of the Florida governor’s attributes.
“The guy has bigger ... Wait, let me think about how I want to word this. My staff always says, ‘Whatever you do, do not say balls.’ So I'm not going to say it. That guy has a backbone made of steel.
I’ll tell you what he’s got. I don’t know if you’d heard of this. He’s got ‘BDE.’ Anybody know what that means? Ask your kids about it later.”
“I call it ‘Big DeSantis Energy.’ Right? He’s got the same kind of BDE that President Trump has. And, frankly, he’s got the same kind of BDE that we want all of our elected leaders to have.”
Kari Lake sizes up Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis ... by what's in their pants?
joffer
Footballguy
How very Christian of her
rustycolts
Footballguy
Here is all you need to know.
youtube.com
Mama says Ron DeSantis is the devil.
DeSantis shuns woke TV hosts #shorts
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis turned down an offer from ‘The View’ to appear on the show. #foxnews #fox #thefive #shorts Subscribe to Fox News! https://bit.ly/2v...
youtube.com
massraider
Footballguy
Having a rough time getting on the old television these days. That's what Trump does
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
If I were DeSantis’ handlers, I’d spend less time thinking about his BDE and more thinking about his RBF. Check out this picture of him at an event with Jill Biden.
I’ve said many times that I view DeSantis as a formidable candidate, but his biggest weakness is his personality. Dude is a bit of an awkward weirdo introvert. Photos like that (or the video of him yelling at masked kids) don’t help
Joe Mammy
Footballguy
Holding my guts.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Ron Filipkowski 
@RonFilipkowski
·
59m
Trump has lost Alex Jones. He announces today he is off the Trump train: “I am supporting Desantis .. I can look into his eyes on HD video, and I see the real sincerity.”
@RonFilipkowski
·
59m
Trump has lost Alex Jones. He announces today he is off the Trump train: “I am supporting Desantis .. I can look into his eyes on HD video, and I see the real sincerity.”
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