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Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (2 Viewers)

Righetti said:
Psychopav said:
Righetti said:
a new model coming out in three years at about $35,000
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A little long in coming still imo.
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http://www.techtimes.com/articles/10896/20140721/tesla-35k-vehicle-coming-market.htm

2017 seems nuts but I guess that is what they need to get this developed right
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I wonder how much of that timeline has to do with the completion date of the factory. No point in producing a car to sell on a larger scale if they can't get the batteries.

 
I'm not in love with the look of the Tesla, looks like a Jaguar to me. I've been seeing more and more of them, and on appearance alone I wouldn't think twice of taking one of these over an S550 for one second (which is the real cost of a Tesla, not the $70k bull#### price, they upsell more features than any other car maker).

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I'm not in love with the look of the Tesla, looks like a Jaguar to me. I've been seeing more and more of them, and on appearance alone I wouldn't think twice of taking one of these over an S550 for one second (which is the real cost of a Tesla, not the $70k bull#### price, they upsell more features than any other car maker).
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And this is bad why?

 
Keerock said:
fantasycurse42 said:
I'm not in love with the look of the Tesla, looks like a Jaguar to me. I've been seeing more and more of them, and on appearance alone I wouldn't think twice of taking one of these over an S550 for one second (which is the real cost of a Tesla, not the $70k bull#### price, they upsell more features than any other car maker).
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And this is bad why?
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It's isn't bad, personally I'm not a huge fan of their styling, but I can understand the appeal. I just feel for the money, you can get a nicer looking car ( for example, S550).

 
I agree with FC42. The car is underwhelming looks wise

However, my friend has a P85+. Black on black with gunmetal wheels. His car looks incredible - the wheels really make it.

The black paint hides the ugly grill well and the wheels give it a menacing, sporty look.

Looks just like this one: http://www.luxury4play.com/automotive/133145-tesla-model-s-another-tag-blackout-package-tag-motorsports.html

He traded in an S63 AMG and likes the Tesla overall, but says the Benz had many more creature comforts and luxury options.

 
Gianni Verscotchie said:
I agree with FC42. The car is underwhelming looks wise

However, my friend has a P85+. Black on black with gunmetal wheels. His car looks incredible - the wheels really make it.

The black paint hides the ugly grill well and the wheels give it a menacing, sporty look.

Looks just like this one: http://www.luxury4play.com/automotive/133145-tesla-model-s-another-tag-blackout-package-tag-motorsports.html

He traded in an S63 AMG and likes the Tesla overall, but says the Benz had many more creature comforts and luxury options.
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It is a nice looking car, I don't think that is up for dispute, I just think it comes down to "who is the competition at this price?"

The S63 and P85+ are in the same price range... To me it is a no brainer. The 7 series BMW gets completely redone next year too, I'm pretty confident I would take that over the Tesla as well.

The Tesla 3 (currently buzzing around $35k) won't be available for less than $50-$60k if you want the range and nice features. At those numbers they need to be ready to compete against the 5 Series and E Class (who both always have aggressive lease deals too and will both be getting redone with 2 years).

They've got the "look at me, I own a Tesla" factor right now going on. Everyone wants one, everyone thinks it is amazing, and everyone who owns one thinks his #### just grew 4 inches overnight. I also like the interiors of other luxury cars a lot more than one gigantic TV in the center dash.

At the end of the day, the company is doing great and well on their road to success. At their current price points, I just feel there are better options at > $100k. To each his own.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Gianni Verscotchie said:
I agree with FC42. The car is underwhelming looks wise

However, my friend has a P85+. Black on black with gunmetal wheels. His car looks incredible - the wheels really make it.

The black paint hides the ugly grill well and the wheels give it a menacing, sporty look.

Looks just like this one: http://www.luxury4play.com/automotive/133145-tesla-model-s-another-tag-blackout-package-tag-motorsports.html

He traded in an S63 AMG and likes the Tesla overall, but says the Benz had many more creature comforts and luxury options.
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It is a nice looking car, I don't think that is up for dispute, I just think it comes down to "who is the competition at this price?"

The S63 and P85+ are in the same price range... To me it is a no brainer. The 7 series BMW gets completely redone next year too, I'm pretty confident I would take that over the Tesla as well.

The Tesla 3 (currently buzzing around $35k) won't be available for less than $50-$60k if you want the range and nice features. At those numbers they need to be ready to compete against the 5 Series and E Class (who both always have aggressive lease deals too and will both be getting redone with 2 years).

They've got the "look at me, I own a Tesla" factor right now going on. Everyone wants one, everyone thinks it is amazing, and everyone who owns one thinks his #### just grew 4 inches overnight. I also like the interiors of other luxury cars a lot more than one gigantic TV in the center dash.

At the end of the day, the company is doing great and well on their road to success. At their current price points, I just feel there are better options at > $100k. To each his own.
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Does this not take into account the fact that the Tesla is an all electric with crazy range while the others aren't? Isn't that a large part of why you're buying one of these?

 
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Reactions: Ned
Anyone buying a car for $100-$130k isn't worried about gas (BTW the S550 goes about 5-600 miles on a full tank, the Tesla will give you about 250, 280 if you drive like a ##### on a full charge).

I also couldn't think of anything more inconvenient than planning my road trip around finding a supercharger station and having to spend an hour charging my car (although this will prob be solved in 20-30 years).

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Anyone buying a car for $100-$130k isn't worried about gas (BTW the S550 goes about 5-600 miles on a full tank, the Tesla will give you about 250, 280 if you drive like a ##### on a full charge).

I also couldn't think of anything more inconvenient than planning my road trip around finding a supercharger station and having to spend an hour charging my car (although this will prob be solved in 20-30 years).
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There are really no roadtrips in this car.

 
Gianni Verscotchie said:
fantasycurse42 said:
Anyone buying a car for $100-$130k isn't worried about gas (BTW the S550 goes about 5-600 miles on a full tank, the Tesla will give you about 250, 280 if you drive like a ##### on a full charge).

I also couldn't think of anything more inconvenient than planning my road trip around finding a supercharger station and having to spend an hour charging my car (although this will prob be solved in 20-30 years).
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There are really no roadtrips in this car.
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I get this, but they do market their cross country supercharger stations.

 
Tesla Owners Frustrated by Recharge Waits

By Mike Ramsey and Ellen Proper

June 30, 2015 3:00 p.m. ET

AMSTERDAM—Matthijs van Seventer won’t take his Model S electric sedan to the Tesla charging station in the southeast part of the city if he is in a hurry. The chargers are typically loaded with taxicabs serving Schiphol airport.

“It’s barely viable,” he said standing near a row of superchargers, which for Tesla owners are the equivalent of gas pumps to quickly recharge their battery-powered vehicles. “When I arrived there was just one spot left.”

Mr. van Seventer’s frustration reflects a rare rift in what has typically been a cozy relationship between Tesla Motors Inc. and its thousands of owners around the world.

Free charging at company-run stations is one of a handful of unique incentives aimed at Tesla owners. Federal and local tax credits are available in many markets, and in some cities, including Oslo, Norway, electric vehicles can drive in high-speed lanes normally reserved for buses.

Even as Tesla has poured millions of dollars in creating a global network of free charges, owners of the $76,200 and up luxury sedans feel there still aren’t enough.

A Tesla charging station in Nephi, Utah. Free charging is one of the incentives the firm offers to Tesla owners. ENLARGE

A Tesla charging station in Nephi, Utah. Free charging is one of the incentives the firm offers to Tesla owners. Photo: George Frey/Bloomberg News

Mimi Kim Jamil recently slipped into the last spot at the San Juan Capistrano (Calif.) Supercharger station where there are eight stalls and plugged in her 85 kilowatt-hour Model S. A moment later, two other Model S drivers pulled in behind.

Advertisement

Superchargers can recharge 80% of an 85 kilowatt-hour battery in about 30 minutes. While that’s much longer than the about five minutes needed to refuel a gasoline-powered car, it is more than 10 times faster than a typical Tesla home charger.

“I felt bad for them,” Ms. Jamil said, noting that the other seven Model S sedans were unattended, a sign that their owners may be picking up items at the nearby shopping center while their cars charged. The two drivers needing to charge “were just waiting, waiting, waiting.”

Tesla is installing superchargers at a rate of about one new station a day around the world to keep up with sales that have reached 60,000 vehicles since it launched three years ago. The company’s pipeline includes a sport-utility vehicle launching this fall, and ambitions to sharply increase annual sales through 2020.

Sales growth could put additional strain on the Tesla Supercharger network that currently includes 453 stations and 2,519 chargers, which are capable of cutting charge times from several hours to about 40 minutes.

‘Tesla sales will drop if they don't build more supercharger stations.’

—Roger Chou, customer awaiting a Model X

“Tesla sales will drop if they don’t build more supercharger stations,” said Roger Chou in San Diego, who has ordered a Model X, but has been driving his brother’s Model S. “If they want to start charging people, that is fine, but be clear about it, so people can make their decision before spending $100,000-plus on a car.”

The trend has caught the attention of Chief Executive Elon Musk. During the company’s annual shareholder meeting in June, he indicated the Superchargers are too often being used by people who are driving around town instead of those needing energy for longer road trips, creating lines of people waiting for juice.

“There are a few people who are quite aggressively using it for local supercharging,” he said. “We’ll sort of send them just a reminder note that it’s cool to do this occasionally, but it’s meant to be a long-distance thing.”

That didn’t sit well with some owners, because use of the chargers is included in the price of a Tesla, and advertised as being “free for life.” While many of its rivals spend big money on advertising, Tesla has invested millions of dollars in charging stations meant to be an extra incentive for buyers to consider its pricey electric car.

After Mr. Musk addressed the issue at the shareholders meeting, about 500 comments reacting to his stance were made on my.teslamotors.com before site administrators closed it. At that point, the forum on Tesla’s official website was restricted to car owners, who were asked to not speak to the press for fear of airing the issue publicly.
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fantasycurse42 said:
Keerock said:
fantasycurse42 said:
I'm not in love with the look of the Tesla, looks like a Jaguar to me. I've been seeing more and more of them, and on appearance alone I wouldn't think twice of taking one of these over an S550 for one second (which is the real cost of a Tesla, not the $70k bull#### price, they upsell more features than any other car maker).
Click to expand...
And this is bad why?
Click to expand...
It's isn't bad, personally I'm not a huge fan of their styling, but I can understand the appeal. I just feel for the money, you can get a nicer looking car ( for example, S550).
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To each his own. I think the S550 looks like too many other unexciting cars.

 
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cstu said:
“I felt bad for them,” Ms. Jamil said, noting that the other seven Model S sedans were unattended, a sign that their owners may be picking up items at the nearby shopping center while their cars charged. The two drivers needing to charge “were just waiting, waiting, waiting.”
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Shocker that drivers of a $100k boutique luxury cars are self-important pricks who would do stuff like tying up quick-charge stations while they go shopping

:lol:

 
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How much would Tesla cars and Musk's other products cost without massive federal and state subsidies and tax credits?

 
Tesla earnings after the bell today. Looking for the following:

  • Will 55,000 Tesla vehicles be delivered in 2015 worldwide?
  • Model X launch - they need to deliver some by the end of September.
  • When do they think they will have a profitable quarter?
Seems like the recent announcements over software upgrades for the S are a smokescreen for more pressing business issues.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Tesla delivers record number electric vehicles in Q2

The future is here right now. A BEV now outsells comparably priced ICE sedans (BMW 7-series, MB S-class.) We're a year away from affordable 200-mile range cars (Chevy Bolt, next gen LEAF), the $35K Tesla Model 3 is two years out. But change is coming fast.
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The competition of the legacy companies with their electric vehicles is what worries me the most for Tesla. At some point, if the legacy companies are offering a product as good or better and you are not making a profit- you are in trouble.

 
Nugget said:
Tesla earnings after the bell today. Looking for the following:

  • Will 55,000 Tesla vehicles be delivered in 2015 worldwide?
  • Model X launch - they need to deliver some by the end of September.
  • When do they think they will have a profitable quarter?
Seems like the recent announcements over software upgrades for the S are a smokescreen for more pressing business issues.
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Revised deliveries down to 50K for 2015Still hope to deliver 1st Model X in September

Lost .82/share

Stock down around 10% 2 hours into the trading session.

 
Chadstroma said:
BobbyLayne said:
Tesla delivers record number electric vehicles in Q2

The future is here right now. A BEV now outsells comparably priced ICE sedans (BMW 7-series, MB S-class.) We're a year away from affordable 200-mile range cars (Chevy Bolt, next gen LEAF), the $35K Tesla Model 3 is two years out. But change is coming fast.
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The competition of the legacy companies with their electric vehicles is what worries me the most for Tesla. At some point, if the legacy companies are offering a product as good or better and you are not making a profit- you are in trouble.
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Where's their battery factory? Have any of them demonstrated a battery pack using low cost cells like Tesla uses? Have they started building out a fast charging infrastructure that's at least 120 kW? Do they have their own pack degredation data? Have BMW or MB demonstrated that they can build a similarly priced vehicle with similar range and performance? The answer to most if not all of these questions is no. it's going to take them more than a few years to catch up with all that.

I think the sleeper factor is Tesla Energy. Power wall is sold out but right now the focus is on selling energy storage to businesses and utilities. Q4 revenue from TE will be $40-50M, order of magnitude for for 2016. Gigafactory I opens in April, which will significantly reduce the per kWh cost of the battery. JB Straubel, CTO, says they can get it down to $100 /kWh in a few years.

CapEx will be 1.5B in 2016, most of which is to build the Gigafactory and Model X line. That's not a wide open spigot that can't be turned off. They'll be cash flow positive in the first half of next year.

2016: 90K Model S/X deliveries next year. Gigafactory producing more lithium ion batteries at one site than entire world could produce previously. Tesla Energy exponential growth.

2017: Model 3 launch

2019: Next Gen Roadster

2020: 500,000 deliveries - 100K Model S/X, 350K Model 3 sedan/SUV/Crossover, 50K Roadster.

That's with one Gigafactory and Fremont assembly. They'll have to build more of both at some point.

The Snake Charger? Not very elegant, but it's a prototype. After the driverless taxi finishes its shift, it self-parks and the snake plugs in.

 
Morgan Stanley puts a price target on Tesla - bigger than GM or Ford.

Link

GM sold 9.9 million vehicles world wide in 2014. Tesla stated they will miss their target of 55,000 vehicles.

 
Didn't that just make another stocker offering to raise cash because they are burning through so much of it?

If people did not love Musk and his forward vision I think this company would be dead now. Perhaps his vision is enough to get it through to profitability and then it has tons of room to grow. But my point before about the legacy car makers is that they are coming to the party and they are not going to just give up market share and allow Tesla to grow and take it away. Can Tesla be that far ahead of the curve in offering products that much better to grow above other alternatives? That is a hard question to answer.

 
Tesla shares will drop under $160 today - Peaked at $291 in Sept 2014. Where does it go from here?

Key questions:

  • Model 3 Timing
  • Giga Factory
  • Volume on Model X
  • Demand for Tesla
  • Gas Prices
  • Patience for Elon
 
Thinking of getting on waiting list for the Model 3 once it's officially official. Have a Prius hybrid and don't want to go electric (Leaf, E-Golf,etc) til I can get a range >100 miles for a price ~40k. Model 3 is the real potential game changer here if they can scale production to the size needed. A big IF.

 
Good looking car and obviously a great price at $35k, but that tacked-on touchscreen tho.

 
the continuous piece of glass is super cool looking, but if you crack the windshield what is the replacement price of that bad boy..gotta be at least 1K right?

 
Put me in the camp that says you won't be able to get one that looks like the ones brought out for less than $50k (prob closer to $60k).

Also, after they've sold 200k cars, that $7500 tax credit no longer exists. 

Really like the front of the car, hate the rear. 

If it really was $35k, I'd take it over the competition at that price. For the $50-$60k it'll prob cost, I happily take a new E Class, 5 series, or A6 over it.

Just my .02

 
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