Texas Pro Day (1 Viewer)

[RBM]

Benson was clocked anywhere from a 4.51 - 4.59

NFL.com link

 

[jurb26]

Thats it? Just the 5 players. I hadn't realized so few were coming out of Texas this year. Not exactly helping their reputation for NFL stocking this year are they.

 

[Bojang0301]

Thats it? Just the 5 players. I hadn't realized so few were coming out of Texas this year. Not exactly helping their reputation for NFL stocking this year are they.

Two top ten picks on the way. So I'm confused.

 

[jurb26]

Thats it?  Just the 5 players.  I hadn't realized so few were coming out of Texas this year.  Not exactly helping their reputation for NFL stocking this year are they.

Two top ten picks on the way. So I'm confused.

Ehh, I guess. I'm not terribly excited about Benson, though I see your point. Still though, only 5 guys seems a bit low does it not?

 

[Bojang0301]

Thats it?  Just the 5 players.  I hadn't realized so few were coming out of Texas this year.  Not exactly helping their reputation for NFL stocking this year are they.

Two top ten picks on the way. So I'm confused.

Ehh, I guess. I'm not terribly excited about Benson, though I see your point. Still though, only 5 guys seems a bit low does it not?

No, most schools are lucky to have one guy even get drafted let alone two in ther first, let alone two in the top ten. Even when OSU broke the record last year they only had two first rounders and no one in the top ten.

 

[jurb26]

Thats it?  Just the 5 players.  I hadn't realized so few were coming out of Texas this year.  Not exactly helping their reputation for NFL stocking this year are they.

Two top ten picks on the way. So I'm confused.

Ehh, I guess. I'm not terribly excited about Benson, though I see your point. Still though, only 5 guys seems a bit low does it not?

No, most schools are lucky to have one guy even get drafted let alone two in ther first, let alone two in the top ten. Even when OSU broke the record last year they only had two first rounders and no one in the top ten.

Yeah but there is no guarantee taht the other 3 will get drafted. Plus, Miami is in an "off" year as far as NFL prospects and they are still going to be landing 6 in the league. I guess I just assumed too much of the Texas program is all.

 

[Newman]

Thats it?  Just the 5 players.  I hadn't realized so few were coming out of Texas this year.  Not exactly helping their reputation for NFL stocking this year are they.

Two top ten picks on the way. So I'm confused.

Ehh, I guess. I'm not terribly excited about Benson, though I see your point. Still though, only 5 guys seems a bit low does it not?

Not really. Rodrique Wright would've also been a high pick, but he decided to stay for another year.

 

[EBF]

In the 40, he was timed as low as 4.51 and as high as 4.59. That's impressive; not even Emmitt Smith, the NFL's all-time leading rusher, ran that fast when he was coming out of school.

I had to laugh at this quote. Hey Gil, just about every starting running back in the NFL can put up times in the 4.5 range. That doesn't mean they're all impressive or that they all compare to Emmitt Smith as football players. The number that jumps out at me is the 33" vertical leap. That's pretty weak. All of the top prospects this year have had disappointing numbers there compared with recent classes. Cadillac jumped 35.5", while Brown managed 34". I know it's dangerous to draw conclusions based on workouts, but I think this last piece of news is enough to give Brown the edge over Benson for the #2 spot in my rankings.1. Cadillac - 217 pounds, 4.50 40, 35.5" VJ2. Brown - 233 pounds, 4.49 40, 34" VJ3. Benson - 225 pounds, 4.55 40, 33" VJ 4. Barber - 221 pounds, 4.49 40, 40" VJ 5. Fason - 207 pounds, 4.61 40, 36" VJ 6. Arrington - 214 pounds, 4.48 40, 35" VJ7. Moats - 210 pounds, 4.50 40, 36" VJ

 

[Barry Jive and The Uptown Five]

In the 40, he was timed as low as 4.51 and as high as 4.59. That's impressive; not even Emmitt Smith, the NFL's all-time leading rusher, ran that fast when he was coming out of school.

I had to laugh at this quote. Hey Gil, just about every starting running back in the NFL can put up times in the 4.5 range. That doesn't mean they're all impressive or that they all compare to Emmitt Smith as football players. The number that jumps out at me is the 33" vertical leap. That's pretty weak. All of the top prospects this year have had disappointing numbers there compared with recent classes. Cadillac jumped 35.5", while Brown managed 34". I know it's dangerous to draw conclusions based on workouts, but I think this last piece of news is enough to give Brown the edge over Benson for the #2 spot in my rankings.

1. Cadillac - 217 pounds, 4.50 40, 35.5" VJ

2. Brown - 233 pounds, 4.49 40, 34" VJ

3. Benson - 225 pounds, 4.55 40, 33" VJ

4. Barber - 221 pounds, 4.49 40, 40" VJ

5. Fason - 207 pounds, 4.61 40, 36" VJ

6. Arrington - 214 pounds, 4.48 40, 35" VJ

7. Moats - 210 pounds, 4.50 40, 36" VJ

EBF - I thought we decided that 35" was the cut off for looking at RBs. IIIRC

35+ There's a good chance at being an elite RB

<35 Very little chance of reaching elite status

Am I missing something? That would be a pretty bad omen for Brown & Benson...

 

[Bojang0301]

Thats it?  Just the 5 players.  I hadn't realized so few were coming out of Texas this year.  Not exactly helping their reputation for NFL stocking this year are they.

Two top ten picks on the way. So I'm confused.

Ehh, I guess. I'm not terribly excited about Benson, though I see your point. Still though, only 5 guys seems a bit low does it not?

Not really. Rodrique Wright would've also been a high pick, but he decided to stay for another year.

Ditto on Vince Young.

 

[Bojang0301]

In the 40, he was timed as low as 4.51 and as high as 4.59. That's impressive; not even Emmitt Smith, the NFL's all-time leading rusher, ran that fast when he was coming out of school.

I had to laugh at this quote. Hey Gil, just about every starting running back in the NFL can put up times in the 4.5 range. That doesn't mean they're all impressive or that they all compare to Emmitt Smith as football players. The number that jumps out at me is the 33" vertical leap. That's pretty weak. All of the top prospects this year have had disappointing numbers there compared with recent classes. Cadillac jumped 35.5", while Brown managed 34". I know it's dangerous to draw conclusions based on workouts, but I think this last piece of news is enough to give Brown the edge over Benson for the #2 spot in my rankings.

1. Cadillac - 217 pounds, 4.50 40, 35.5" VJ

2. Brown - 233 pounds, 4.49 40, 34" VJ

3. Benson - 225 pounds, 4.55 40, 33" VJ

4. Barber - 221 pounds, 4.49 40, 40" VJ

5. Fason - 207 pounds, 4.61 40, 36" VJ

6. Arrington - 214 pounds, 4.48 40, 35" VJ

7. Moats - 210 pounds, 4.50 40, 36" VJ

EBF - I thought we decided that 35" was the cut off for looking at RBs. IIIRC

35+ There's a good chance at being an elite RB

<35 Very little chance of reaching elite status

Am I missing something? That would be a pretty bad omen for Brown & Benson...

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...892&hl=vertical

 

[EBF]

In the 40, he was timed as low as 4.51 and as high as 4.59. That's impressive; not even Emmitt Smith, the NFL's all-time leading rusher, ran that fast when he was coming out of school.

I had to laugh at this quote. Hey Gil, just about every starting running back in the NFL can put up times in the 4.5 range. That doesn't mean they're all impressive or that they all compare to Emmitt Smith as football players. The number that jumps out at me is the 33" vertical leap. That's pretty weak. All of the top prospects this year have had disappointing numbers there compared with recent classes. Cadillac jumped 35.5", while Brown managed 34". I know it's dangerous to draw conclusions based on workouts, but I think this last piece of news is enough to give Brown the edge over Benson for the #2 spot in my rankings.

1. Cadillac - 217 pounds, 4.50 40, 35.5" VJ

2. Brown - 233 pounds, 4.49 40, 34" VJ

3. Benson - 225 pounds, 4.55 40, 33" VJ

4. Barber - 221 pounds, 4.49 40, 40" VJ

5. Fason - 207 pounds, 4.61 40, 36" VJ

6. Arrington - 214 pounds, 4.48 40, 35" VJ

7. Moats - 210 pounds, 4.50 40, 36" VJ

EBF - I thought we decided that 35" was the cut off for looking at RBs. IIIRC

35+ There's a good chance at being an elite RB

<35 Very little chance of reaching elite status

Am I missing something? That would be a pretty bad omen for Brown & Benson...

You're right. The only current starting RB from the last four classes to jump under 35" is Domanick Davis (31.5"). Anthony Thomas, Marcel Shipp, Chester Taylor and Chris Perry all jumped below 35". Larry Johnson may have jumped under 35".

 

[Hawk]

Averaging out to a 4.55 is better than I thought Cedric would do, and Brandt states that it was a slower track than the Indy track. I really thought he might come in over 4.6 like KJ did last year. This should cement Cedric as a top 10 pick. Nobody thinks Benson's game is predicated on speed anyway, and this was a good result for him. As to number of prospects, Texas only graduated something like 13 scholarship players this year, so its not a surprise that they had fewer NFL prospects given the small sampling. Having two top 10 picks out of a group that small is not bad at all. Texas will graduate much larger classes over the next two years and will have significantly more NFL prospects over that time.

 

[Colin Dowling]

:rotflmao: Colin

 

[Barry Jive and The Uptown Five]

:rotflmao:

Colin

Yep, I agree.a 33" VJ is pretty :rotflmao:

Nothing like squashes discussion on the MB for which you work than mocking the people who participate by bringing forth unique perspectives.

 

[diesel7982]

Odd, I was on campus there two hours ago and had completely forgot about their pro-day being today.Looks like DJ has bulked up(243), but it did not help his strength(21 reps).

 

[pgreenfan]

I think it would be a mistake to assume anything based on a players workout. I wonder what Emmitt's VJ was coming out of Florida. I am huge fan of his but never really thought he was a "great athlete".

 

[Colin Dowling]

:rotflmao:

Colin

Yep, I agree.a 33" VJ is pretty :rotflmao:

Nothing like squashes discussion on the MB for which you work than mocking the people who participate by bringing forth unique perspectives.

And you've contributed...? I am laughing over the picking of nits, commonly referred to as "nit-picking." I'm sure you noticed that the discussion had veered towards discussing a threshhold - 35" IIRC - for which a "stud RB" must pass. Are you kidding me? Benson did EXACTLY as was expected of him. Aside from the fact that nothing short of a 4.45 would have put him in front of Brown on most people's boards (EBF included, and that might not have been enough) does it occurr to you - to everyone - exactly how ridiculous the verticla jump argument is?

The VJ is most beneficial for WRs and DBs, but is commonly accepted as a matter of "technique" every bit as much as a matter of being a pure test of athleticism.

Colin

 

[Futility]

Odd, I was on campus there two hours ago and had completely forgot about their pro-day being today.

Looks like DJ has bulked up(243), but it did not help his strength(21 reps).

Same here actually, lol.Notice to all: This is not a group of 2 stars and 3 scrubs. This is a group of 2 stars and at least 2 sleepers who I believe will make solid pros. FB Will Matthews and TE Bo Scaife aren't at the top of their class, but they're both excellent at what they do.

 

[Colin Dowling]

I think it would be a mistake to assume anything based on a players workout. I wonder what Emmitt's VJ was coming out of Florida. I am huge fan of his but never really thought he was a "great athlete".

No idea, but he had a 4.7 forty predraft. The numbers are TOOLS to measure, not absolutes.Colin

 

[Bojang0301]

That vertical jump thread is so flawed anyway. To make any fair assesment you would have to look up RB numbers for at very least the last ten years and good luck finding those.

 

[Colin Dowling]

That vertical jump thread is so flawed anyway. To make any fair assesment you would have to look up RB numbers for at very least the last ten years and good luck finding those.

...and the reason they are hard to find over more than the last couple of years is because no one finds them to be of interest.Colin

 

[jurb26]

That vertical jump thread is so flawed anyway. To make any fair assesment you would have to look up RB numbers for at very least the last ten years and good luck finding those.

...and the reason they are hard to find over more than the last couple of years is because no one finds them to be of interest.Colin

You are GREATLY underestimating the use of the jump drills. Both the Broad and Vert jump are the best tools to meas pure explosive movement in players. Both of which are very important to RBs.

 

[EBF]

So he could jump 40" if he improved his technique? Please. Vertical leap is a measure of fast twitch muscle ability and leg strength. Those are two pretty important things for a RB to have. A 33" leap doesn't mean Benson won't succeed, but it's not on par with what the best RB prospects in recent years have done. William Green - 42"LaDainian Tomlinson - 40.5"Michael Bennett - 39.5" Clinton Portis - 39"Lee Suggs - 38.5"Tatum Bell - 38.5"Kevin Jones - 38"Steven Jackson - 38"Julius Jones - 37.5"Rudi Johnson - 37.5"Brian Westbrook - 37"TJ Duckett - 37"DeShaun Foster - 35.5"Onterrio Smith - 35.5"Larry Johnson - 33"?Domanick Davis - 31.5"No Dataeuce McAllisterKevan BarlowChris Perry I don't know about you, but I pay attention to trends. If most of the best RBs in recent classes have had good vertical leaps then I think it follows that vertical leap is worth looking at when analyzing a RB prospect. Benson's 33" leap is very mediocre, especially compared with top backs from recent drafts. This doesn't prove anything, but it suggests that he may be a below average athlete for an elite RB prospect.

 

[Colin Dowling]

So he could jump 40" if he improved his technique? Please. Vertical leap is a measure of fast twitch muscle ability and leg strength. Those are two pretty important things for a RB to have. A 33" leap doesn't mean Benson won't succeed, but it's not on par with what the best RB prospects in recent years have done.

William Green - 42"

LaDainian Tomlinson - 40.5"

Michael Bennett - 39.5"

Clinton Portis - 39"

Lee Suggs - 38.5"

Tatum Bell - 38.5"

Kevin Jones - 38"

Steven Jackson - 38"

Julius Jones - 37.5"

Rudi Johnson - 37.5"

Brian Westbrook - 37"

TJ Duckett - 37"

DeShaun Foster - 35.5"

Onterrio Smith - 35.5"

Larry Johnson - 33"?

Domanick Davis - 31.5"

No Data:

Deuce McAllister

Kevan Barlow

Chris Perry

I don't know about you, but I pay attention to trends. If most of the best RBs in recent classes have had good vertical leaps then I think it follows that vertical leap is worth looking at when analyzing a RB prospect. Benson's 33" leap is very mediocre, especially compared with top backs from recent drafts. This doesn't prove anything, but it suggests that he may be a below average athlete for an elite RB prospect.

No it doesn't. It suggests he has a below average vertical jump in a test thasn't conducted uniformly compared to other running backs. Do you also pay attention to the trend where he ran wild all over opponents to the tune of 5.6ypc and 22 TDs despite having a woeful passing offense to ease things up?

Also, you do realize that the data is limited because they changed the test 3 years ago since it wasn't providing a very good gauge of jumping ability (guys improving 4 inches in a couple weeks from one workout to the next).

Colin

 

[reg]

So he could jump 40" if he improved his technique? Please. Vertical leap is a measure of fast twitch muscle ability and leg strength. Those are two pretty important things for a RB to have. A 33" leap doesn't mean Benson won't succeed, but it's not on par with what the best RB prospects in recent years have done.

William Green - 42"

LaDainian Tomlinson - 40.5"

Michael Bennett - 39.5"

Clinton Portis - 39"

Lee Suggs - 38.5"

Tatum Bell - 38.5"

Kevin Jones - 38"

Steven Jackson - 38"

Julius Jones - 37.5"

Rudi Johnson - 37.5"

Brian Westbrook - 37"

TJ Duckett - 37"

DeShaun Foster - 35.5"

Onterrio Smith - 35.5"

Larry Johnson - 33"?

Domanick Davis - 31.5"

No Data:

Deuce McAllister

Kevan Barlow

Chris Perry

I don't know about you, but I pay attention to trends. If most of the best RBs in recent classes have had good vertical leaps then I think it follows that vertical leap is worth looking at when analyzing a RB prospect. Benson's 33" leap is very mediocre, especially compared with top backs from recent drafts. This doesn't prove anything, but it suggests that he may be a below average athlete for an elite RB prospect.

I'm a little confused by your post, Funk. In it you are including players drafted in 3rd and 4th rounds, while excluding others drafted in the 2nd round or very close to where some of the people are on your list. IE: You include Portis, but leave off Betts and Mo Morris (who were taken within 5 slots of Portis). You include Davis and Onterrio, but leave off Pinner, Fargas, Musa Smith, Chris Brown. Did these guys have poor VL?

I guess the word prospect might be throwing me off.

 

[EBF]

If you shorten the list and only look at guys who currently project to be their team's starter, you get the following list. LaDainian Tomlinson - 40.5"Clinton Portis - 39"Lee Suggs - 38.5"Tatum Bell - 38.5"Kevin Jones - 38"Steven Jackson - 38"Julius Jones - 37.5"Rudi Johnson - 37.5"Brian Westbrook - 37"DeShaun Foster - 35.5"Domanick Davis - 31.5"Average vertical leap of starting RBs drafted between 2001-2004: 37.4"Number of starting RBs drafted between 2001-2004 who have a vertical leap under 35": 1 Percentage of starting RBs drafted between 2001-2004 who have a vertical leap under 35": 9.1%

 

[EBF]

So he could jump 40" if he improved his technique? Please. Vertical leap is a measure of fast twitch muscle ability and leg strength. Those are two pretty important things for a RB to have. A 33" leap doesn't mean Benson won't succeed, but it's not on par with what the best RB prospects in recent years have done.

William Green - 42"

LaDainian Tomlinson - 40.5"

Michael Bennett - 39.5"

Clinton Portis - 39"

Lee Suggs - 38.5"

Tatum Bell - 38.5"

Kevin Jones - 38"

Steven Jackson - 38"

Julius Jones - 37.5"

Rudi Johnson - 37.5"

Brian Westbrook - 37"

TJ Duckett - 37"

DeShaun Foster - 35.5"

Onterrio Smith - 35.5"

Larry Johnson - 33"?

Domanick Davis - 31.5"

No Data:

Deuce McAllister

Kevan Barlow

Chris Perry

I don't know about you, but I pay attention to trends. If most of the best RBs in recent classes have had good vertical leaps then I think it follows that vertical leap is worth looking at when analyzing a RB prospect. Benson's 33" leap is very mediocre, especially compared with top backs from recent drafts. This doesn't prove anything, but it suggests that he may be a below average athlete for an elite RB prospect.

I'm a little confused by your post, Funk. In it you are including players drafted in 3rd and 4th rounds, while excluding others drafted in the 2nd round or very close to where some of the people are on your list. IE: You include Portis, but leave off Betts and Mo Morris (who were taken within 5 slots of Portis). You include Davis and Onterrio, but leave off Pinner, Fargas, Musa Smith, Chris Brown. Did these guys have poor VL?

I guess the word prospect might be throwing me off.

I'm including player who were top prospects and players who have since become starters for their NFL teams.

 

[Futility]

So he could jump 40" if he improved his technique? Please. Vertical leap is a measure of fast twitch muscle ability and leg strength. Those are two pretty important things for a RB to have. A 33" leap doesn't mean Benson won't succeed, but it's not on par with what the best RB prospects in recent years have done.

William Green - 42"

LaDainian Tomlinson - 40.5"

Michael Bennett - 39.5"

Clinton Portis - 39"

Lee Suggs - 38.5"

Tatum Bell - 38.5"

Kevin Jones - 38"

Steven Jackson - 38"

Julius Jones - 37.5"

Rudi Johnson - 37.5"

Brian Westbrook - 37"

TJ Duckett - 37"

DeShaun Foster - 35.5"

Onterrio Smith - 35.5"

Larry Johnson - 33"?

Domanick Davis - 31.5"

No Data:

Deuce McAllister

Kevan Barlow

Chris Perry

I don't know about you, but I pay attention to trends. If most of the best RBs in recent classes have had good vertical leaps then I think it follows that vertical leap is worth looking at when analyzing a RB prospect. Benson's 33" leap is very mediocre, especially compared with top backs from recent drafts. This doesn't prove anything, but it suggests that he may be a below average athlete for an elite RB prospect.

Damn, it's a shame his vert was so bad. I guess his aspirations of being the next Willie Green were all for nothing.

 

[jurb26]

Also, you do realize that the data is limited because they changed the test 3 years ago since it wasn't providing a very good gauge of jumping ability (guys improving 4 inches in a couple weeks from one workout to the next).

Colin

Wasn't this only becuase they hadn't had a uniform structure to Vert jumping though. Some were allowing steps where as now the uniform method is only getting 1 step into the jump. The numbers varied because several people were running the drill differently and it was enough to drive scouts crazy trying to keep up with what was going on everywhere.

 

[Colin Dowling]

If you shorten the list and only look at guys who currently project to be their team's starter, you get the following list.

LaDainian Tomlinson - 40.5"

Clinton Portis - 39"

Lee Suggs - 38.5"

Tatum Bell - 38.5"

Kevin Jones - 38"

Steven Jackson - 38"

Julius Jones - 37.5"

Rudi Johnson - 37.5"

Brian Westbrook - 37"

DeShaun Foster - 35.5"

Domanick Davis - 31.5"

Average vertical leap of starting RBs drafted between 2001-2004: 37.4"

Number of starting RBs drafted between 2001-2004 who have a vertical leap under 35": 1

Percentage of starting RBs drafted between 2001-2004 who have a vertical leap under 35": 9.1%

This is insane. 2 of the 3 best vertical jumps on your list, who also happen to be two of the more highly drafted "prospects" aren't on your starters list because it didn't pan out for them. Also, to suggest Portis was more of a "prospect" than Betts or Morris when they were drafted close to him is seeing what you want to see. At the time, they were all graded similarly.Look, I get that you've got Benson 3rd on your list and don't like him as much as last year's crop. Thats fine, but deciding that his vertical jump is 2" too short based on a test that is given so much credence that only a scattershot of results can even be found after an exhaustive search is silly.

COlin

 

[EBF]

No it doesn't. It suggests he has a below average vertical jump in a test thasn't conducted uniformly compared to other running backs.

And since vertical leap is a measure of athletic ability, it could be suggested that he's athletically inferior to most of the recent top RB prospects. Sure, the test may not be the exact same for every RB, but vertical leap is pretty easy to measure. Teams either use machines or they use markings based on how high the player can touch. I would imagine that both systems have similar accuracy.

Do you also pay attention to the trend where he ran wild all over opponents to the tune of 5.6ypc and 22 TDs despite having a woeful passing offense to ease things up?

College competition is college competition. Elite prospects are expected to dominate against amateurs. Most of the guys on my list did. The only difference between most of them and Benson is the number of carries received, something which the RB himself has little control over. Also, while Texas may have had a woeful passing attack, they have a team littered with four and five star prospects. That includes the offensive line.

Also, you do realize that the data is limited because they changed the test 3 years ago since it wasn't providing a very good gauge of jumping ability (guys improving 4 inches in a couple weeks from one workout to the next).

That's fine. There's still a big disparity between Benson and the top backs from the past three classes.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Also, you do realize that the data is limited because they changed the test 3 years ago since it wasn't providing a very good gauge of jumping ability (guys improving 4 inches in a couple weeks from one workout to the next).

Colin

Wasn't this only becuase they hadn't had a uniform structure to Vert jumping though. Some were allowing steps where as now the uniform method is only getting 1 step into the jump. The numbers varied because several people were running the drill differently and it was enough to drive scouts crazy trying to keep up with what was going on everywhere.

Originally, they jumped up and touched a spot on the wall. Then, they brought in the telescoping ruler, but didn't decide how many steps guys could take. THen they decided to let them take one step - which is a movement made often by DBs, DLs, and WRs. I'm not a physiologist, but I could dunk a basketball with two hands with a running start pretty easily in college. However, standing under the rim flat footed, I couldn't even snag the rim. My brother could stand under the rim and jump up flat footed and dunk it, but could hardly jump over a piece of paper with a running start.

I'm telling you, its a test about TECHNIQUE, which is why the results aren't nearly as important as some of the other factors measured by scouts.

Colin

 

[EBF]

So he could jump 40" if he improved his technique? Please. Vertical leap is a measure of fast twitch muscle ability and leg strength. Those are two pretty important things for a RB to have. A 33" leap doesn't mean Benson won't succeed, but it's not on par with what the best RB prospects in recent years have done.

William Green - 42"

LaDainian Tomlinson - 40.5"

Michael Bennett - 39.5"

Clinton Portis - 39"

Lee Suggs - 38.5"

Tatum Bell - 38.5"

Kevin Jones - 38"

Steven Jackson - 38"

Julius Jones - 37.5"

Rudi Johnson - 37.5"

Brian Westbrook - 37"

TJ Duckett - 37"

DeShaun Foster - 35.5"

Onterrio Smith - 35.5"

Larry Johnson - 33"?

Domanick Davis - 31.5"

No Data:

Deuce McAllister

Kevan Barlow

Chris Perry

I don't know about you, but I pay attention to trends. If most of the best RBs in recent classes have had good vertical leaps then I think it follows that vertical leap is worth looking at when analyzing a RB prospect. Benson's 33" leap is very mediocre, especially compared with top backs from recent drafts. This doesn't prove anything, but it suggests that he may be a below average athlete for an elite RB prospect.

Damn, it's a shame his vert was so bad. I guess his aspirations of being the next Willie Green were all for nothing.

You completely missed the point. My argument is not that every RB with a good vertical leap will become a solid NFL back. My argument is that the vast majority of RB prospects from recent classes who have gone on to become their team's starter also happened to have a vertical leap of at least 35". Let me know if you can prove this false.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Sure, the test may not be the exact same for every RB, but vertical leap is pretty easy to measure.

No it isn't. Please see above.Colin

 

[GoTime]

FWIW, Benson's broad jump didn't really follow in tandem with his VJ. Benson's broad jump was just about right smack average at 9'8". Morency and Reyes had verts that weren't great and followed up with bad BJs at barely 9'0". Benson's BJ isn't a number that would raise a red flag for a RB at all.

 

[EBF]

This is insane. 2 of the 3 best vertical jumps on your list, who also happen to be two of the more highly drafted "prospects" aren't on your starters list because it didn't pan out for them. Also, to suggest Portis was more of a "prospect" than Betts or Morris when they were drafted close to him is seeing what you want to see. At the time, they were all graded similarly.

You completely missed the point. My argument is not that every RB with a good vertical leap will become a solid NFL back. My argument is that the vast majority of RB prospects from recent classes who have gone on to become their team's starter also happened to have a vertical leap of at least 35". Let me know if you can prove this false.

 

[EBF]

FWIW, Benson's broad jump didn't really follow in tandem with his VJ. Benson's broad jump was just about right smack average at 9'8". Morency and Reyes had verts that weren't great and followed up with bad BJs at barely 9'0". Benson's BJ isn't a number that would raise a red flag for a RB at all.

True, and I did notice that.

 

[Colin Dowling]

EBF, i understand your point and agree with it. Factually, RBs that start for teams that were drafted in the last 3 years (which isn't a huge list) had greater than 35" verts. I'm just suggesting that this one aspect of a workout not be given so much credence as to suggest that somehow he's Ron Dayne in burnt orange.Colin

 

[EBF]

EBF, i understand your point and agree with it. Factually, RBs that start for teams that were drafted in the last 3 years (which isn't a huge list) had greater than 35" verts. I'm just suggesting that this one aspect of a workout not be given so much credence as to suggest that somehow he's Ron Dayne in burnt orange.

Colin

I think it's a warning sign. It doesn't guarantee failure, but it's certainly something to consider. These trends are out there. If you choose to ignore them then you do so at your own risk.

 

[jurb26]

Also, you do realize that the data is limited because they changed the test 3 years ago since it wasn't providing a very good gauge of jumping ability (guys improving 4 inches in a couple weeks from one workout to the next).

Colin

Wasn't this only becuase they hadn't had a uniform structure to Vert jumping though. Some were allowing steps where as now the uniform method is only getting 1 step into the jump. The numbers varied because several people were running the drill differently and it was enough to drive scouts crazy trying to keep up with what was going on everywhere.

Originally, they jumped up and touched a spot on the wall. Then, they brought in the telescoping ruler, but didn't decide how many steps guys could take. THen they decided to let them take one step - which is a movement made often by DBs, DLs, and WRs. I'm not a physiologist, but I could dunk a basketball with two hands with a running start pretty easily in college. However, standing under the rim flat footed, I couldn't even snag the rim. My brother could stand under the rim and jump up flat footed and dunk it, but could hardly jump over a piece of paper with a running start.

I'm telling you, its a test about TECHNIQUE, which is why the results aren't nearly as important as some of the other factors measured by scouts.

Colin

Huh? Technique has very little to do with vert jumping. The only technique you can use if it is even a technique at all is to be sure to swing your arms in rhythm with your jumping motion. Vert jumps gage natural explolsion as do broad jumps. There is no technique that will make you jump higher. You can max your potential in these events by simply doing them right, but they are mostly natural. Some people jump better off of one foot and others off of 2 feet. Sounds like you are a one foot jumper, otherwise known as "leapers." Your brother would be a natural "jumper" since he uses no prior motion to jump high. These tools are much more usefull than you lead on. However, every combine tool needs to be 2nd to field play.

The only reson the were down played so much before is because people never knew weather or not the numbers were legit. Not becuase they were not important as you are implying. What good does it do you as a scout or coach to emphasise as measurement that is false? That problem has since been addressed and for good reason.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Huh? Technique has very little to do with vert jumping. The only technique you can use if it is even a technique at all is to be sure to swing your arms in rhythm with your jumping motion. Vert jumps gage natural explolsion as do broad jumps. There is no technique that will make you jump higher. You can max your potential in these events by simply doing them right, but they are mostly natural. Some people jump better off of one foot and others off of 2 feet. Sounds like you are a one foot jumper, otherwise known as "leapers." Your brother would be a natural "jumper" since he uses no prior motion to jump high.

1. You're contradicting yourself.2. I agree that it is a tool worth gauging, but I think the thought of finding a flaw in Benson's game due to a 2" difference in his vert v. Clinton Portis ignores the fact that he is very talented in his own right. The next time a RB stands at the goalline and jumps up from two feet with a single step of momentum will be the first.Colin

 

[jurb26]

Huh? Technique has very little to do with vert jumping. The only technique you can use if it is even a technique at all is to be sure to swing your arms in rhythm with your jumping motion.

Vert jumps gage natural explolsion as do broad jumps. There is no technique that will make you jump higher. You can max your potential in these events by simply doing them right, but they are mostly natural. Some people jump better off of one foot and others off of 2 feet. Sounds like you are a one foot jumper, otherwise known as "leapers." Your brother would be a natural "jumper" since he uses no prior motion to jump high.

1. You're contradicting yourself.2. I agree that it is a tool worth gauging, but I think the thought of finding a flaw in Benson's game due to a 2" difference in his vert v. Clinton Portis ignores the fact that he is very talented in his own right. The next time a RB stands at the goalline and jumps up from two feet with a single step of momentum will be the first.

Colin

Where is the contradiction? Swining your arms along with the body is a NATURAL movenment just like the sway in a walking motion or running motion. Its a matter of counterbalance.Oh and when exactly was the last time you saw a RB jump over the pile off of one leg as if to go up for a layup in Basketball? They will jump off of two 99% of the time.

 

[EBF]

Huh? Technique has very little to do with vert jumping. The only technique you can use if it is even a technique at all is to be sure to swing your arms in rhythm with your jumping motion.

Vert jumps gage natural explolsion as do broad jumps. There is no technique that will make you jump higher. You can max your potential in these events by simply doing them right, but they are mostly natural. Some people jump better off of one foot and others off of 2 feet. Sounds like you are a one foot jumper, otherwise known as "leapers." Your brother would be a natural "jumper" since he uses no prior motion to jump high.

1. You're contradicting yourself.2. I agree that it is a tool worth gauging, but I think the thought of finding a flaw in Benson's game due to a 2" difference in his vert v. Clinton Portis ignores the fact that he is very talented in his own right. The next time a RB stands at the goalline and jumps up from two feet with a single step of momentum will be the first.

Colin

There's actually a 6" difference between Benson's leap and Portis's. To suggest that vertical leap isn't important because RBs don't stand on two feet and jump very often during games is like suggesting that 40 times aren't important because RBs don't get down in three point stances and run 40 yards straight very often during games. Neither measure is perfect, but both are valuable. Vertical leap is valuable because it indicates underlying physical traits that lead to success for RBs.

 

[Colin Dowling]

EBF

There's actually a 6" difference between Benson's leap and Portis's.

Portis posted a 35" in his workout. I'll find the link tomorrow morning.Jurb

Where is the contradiction?

Your post said:

There is no technique that will make you jump higher.

and then went on to say

Some people jump better off of one foot and others off of 2 feet.

Going back to an earlier example, I would have been flat out brutal being forced to take the one-step-jump-off-two-feet excersize, but I would have been hell at having momentum and going off of one foot. My brother (as referenced) would be the exact oppositte. To me, it isn't fair to try and quantify vertical jumping when some people do better when jumping in a differing fashion, a la a change in "technique".

Oh and when exactly was the last time you saw a RB jump over the pile off of one leg as if to go up for a layup in Basketball? They will jump off of two 99% of the time.

We're having a nice discussion here, please don't shoot in the dark. Eddie George went/goes off of one foot. Bo Jackson went off of one foot. Eric Bienemy went off of one foot to win the National Title for CU (I have the SI cover to prove it). Some, like Ricky Williams, go off of two. PLENTY go off of one.Colin

 

[EBF]

http://ww2.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/portis_clinton.htm

AGILITY TESTS4.42 in the 40-yard dash … 39-inch vertical jump … 31 1/8-inch arm length … 8 ¼-inch hands.

 

[jurb26]

Going back to an earlier example, I would have been flat out brutal being forced to take the one-step-jump-off-two-feet excersize, but I would have been hell at having momentum and going off of one foot.  My brother (as referenced) would be the exact oppositte.  To me, it isn't fair to try and quantify vertical jumping when some people do better when jumping in a differing fashion, a la a change in "technique".

The Vert jump as measured by scouts in football is a 2 foot jump. It is a standard one step into a 2 foot plant and jump off of 2 feet. There is no 1 foot jumping in the Vert jump. It is set up to be uniform like this now to reduce the confusion you are talking about now.Are you seeing this performed differently places?

 

[Mad Cow]

http://ww2.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/portis_clinton.htm

AGILITY TESTS

4.42 in the 40-yard dash … 39-inch vertical jump … 31 1/8-inch arm length … 8 ¼-inch hands.

 

[Colin Dowling]

http://ww2.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/portis_clinton.htm

AGILITY TESTS

4.42 in the 40-yard dash … 39-inch vertical jump … 31 1/8-inch arm length … 8 ¼-inch hands.

I'll have my link in the morning. Its saved on my work CPU. Don't stray too far, mister Nothing-to-post-but-a-smilie.Edit: FWIW, the link from NFL.com is not going to be "disproven" by my link, which offers different information and which is from a peripheral draft sports. However, I'll post it in the morning just as well so to make clear that I'm not talking out of my ###.

Colin

 

[Bojang0301]

You guys are tools if you are going to draft based on Vert Jump. Basically you are suggesting that the top of this class is all busts.