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Thank you Eli! (1 Viewer)

cstu

Footballguy
Thanks to you Eli, the Giants #1 draft pick that is going to Chargers will be at worst #13 overall (that's assuming you finally lead the Giants to victory :rotflmao: ). However, if you lose (as expected) the pick could be as high as #5 and no lower than #8.

 
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Jimmy James

Footballguy
Hey, it's not all roses. Imagine how good you guys could be with a Sean Taylor instead of that dead weight at QB named Rivers! If you guys turn the whole Brees thing into a good situation, then I'll change my tune. I don't think that's possible, though.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Hey, it's not all roses. Imagine how good you guys could be with a Sean Taylor instead of that dead weight at QB named Rivers! If you guys turn the whole Brees thing into a good situation, then I'll change my tune. I don't think that's possible, though.
:confused:Chargers control the situation here. If they prefer, they tag Brees and keep around a Pro Bowl QB plus use their two high draft picks to improve the team further. If Rivers remains a viable option, they have a 26 year old Pro Bowl signal caller to auction to the highest bidder.How have the Chargers not "turned the whole Brees thing into a good situation" already?
 

cstu

Footballguy
Hey, it's not all roses. Imagine how good you guys could be with a Sean Taylor instead of that dead weight at QB named Rivers! If you guys turn the whole Brees thing into a good situation, then I'll change my tune. I don't think that's possible, though.
:confused:Chargers control the situation here. If they prefer, they tag Brees and keep around a Pro Bowl QB plus use their two high draft picks to improve the team further. If Rivers remains a viable option, they have a 26 year old Pro Bowl signal caller to auction to the highest bidder.How have the Chargers not "turned the whole Brees thing into a good situation" already?
I don't think trading Brees is going to be difficult - especially if Favre retires - and I'm not too worried about Rivers being able to handle the job next year. I think a lot of teams would love to have the Chargers' "problems" right now.
 

shelmark

Footballguy
The Chargers have tons of cap room, draft picks galore, two excellent QB choices, one of best RB in the league, good defense...and poor Eli didn't want to play for these losers...jokes on you..have fun in NY.

 

Jimmy James

Footballguy
Let me clarify -- I am not a Giants fan. I think it's darn funny how it worked out, and I kind of like the Chargers. I honestly don't think a lot of GMs would want to be in the position they're in. If they trade either guy and appear to have made the wrong choice, it's really going to hurt them. If they keep them both, they won't have cap for improvements. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's a sticky wicket.

 

Jimmy James

Footballguy
Chargers won this battle, hands down. It isn't even close.

And the Mannings claimed which team was run poorly???

:P
It's funny you put it this way because it looks to me like the Steelers are the ones who won the battle (at least so far). Well, let's put it another way -- Ben has certainly staked his claim as the best of the three. I know he hasn't been sensational, but I'll take a winner of a QB over a sensation who can't get it done any time (and I'm a Dolphins fan -- I know a lot about the subject).
 

cstu

Footballguy
Ben has certainly staked his claim as the best of the three.
Ben looks good, but it's way premature to be making that call.
The Chargers got the best deal out of it since they have Rivers, Kaeding, at least a top 13 overall pick in the draft and a 5th rounder.All the Steelers did was draft the best QB available - no great insight on their part. If Rivers (or Manning) was there they would have drafted him and I think either would have done pretty well in that situation. Not taking anything away from Ben though, what he has done as a rookie is incredible - undefeated with a 96 rating, 65% completion rate and 15 TD's to 10 INT's. Time to buy low on Eli because as much as I can't stand him he is a talented QB and will figure out how to be an NFL QB within a couple years.
 

BassNBrew

IBL Representative
Ben has certainly staked his claim as the best of the three.
Ben looks good, but it's way premature to be making that call.
The Chargers got the best deal out of it since they have Rivers, Kaeding, at least a top 13 overall pick in the draft and a 5th rounder.All the Steelers did was draft the best QB available - no great insight on their part. If Rivers (or Manning) was there they would have drafted him and I think either would have done pretty well in that situation. Not taking anything away from Ben though, what he has done as a rookie is incredible - undefeated with a 96 rating, 65% completion rate and 15 TD's to 10 INT's. Time to buy low on Eli because as much as I can't stand him he is a talented QB and will figure out how to be an NFL QB within a couple years.
Not so fast my friend...the Steelers didn't panic and move up to the top of the draft to draft the best QB. Sometimes knowing when to sit tight is the best move.The Chargers have essentially traded Manning for Rivers who hasn't played a snap, a kicker :yucky: , and some draft choices that may or may not pan out. They may get the better end of the deal yet, but going into the playoffs I'd rather have some firepower on the field contributing now then a backup QB sucking up salary cap space.
 

Jimmy James

Footballguy
Ben has certainly staked his claim as the best of the three.
Ben looks good, but it's way premature to be making that call.
You can look at it two ways:- It's premature to make that call, but that attitude really means that we can only evaluate after players are retired. I mean, what if Tom Brady decides to pull a Ricky Williams. Will he be better than a Chad Pennington? Wouldn't it be premature to make that call right now since that's possible?- It isn't premature -- it's making a call based on what we know right now. Phil isn't better than Brees, and Eli is uneven at best. This can and very well may change in the future, but none of us know what the future holds.
 

derek19

Footballguy
I like the chargers, but i am a die hard 9er fan. My friend though is a die hard charger fan. I told him this weekend taht after this season, the chargers will be a losing team for the next 1-2years at least. My reason is Brees is a Free agent after this season. they already dumped a lot of money on the rivers guy who hasn't seen a down yet. so why would they sign brees???? This is just hearsay but, i have heard that Green Bay is very interested in Drew and like how he plays. With Farve retiring within a couple years, they could sign drew and have him take over for Farve. Thats what i heard, it might be wrong but, you never know...

 

Jimmy James

Footballguy
Ben has certainly staked his claim as the best of the three.
Ben looks good, but it's way premature to be making that call.
The Chargers got the best deal out of it since they have Rivers, Kaeding, at least a top 13 overall pick in the draft and a 5th rounder.All the Steelers did was draft the best QB available - no great insight on their part. If Rivers (or Manning) was there they would have drafted him and I think either would have done pretty well in that situation. Not taking anything away from Ben though, what he has done as a rookie is incredible - undefeated with a 96 rating, 65% completion rate and 15 TD's to 10 INT's. Time to buy low on Eli because as much as I can't stand him he is a talented QB and will figure out how to be an NFL QB within a couple years.
Not so fast my friend...the Steelers didn't panic and move up to the top of the draft to draft the best QB. Sometimes knowing when to sit tight is the best move.The Chargers have essentially traded Manning for Rivers who hasn't played a snap, a kicker :yucky: , and some draft choices that may or may not pan out. They may get the better end of the deal yet, but going into the playoffs I'd rather have some firepower on the field contributing now then a backup QB sucking up salary cap space.
:goodposting: That is my attitude as well. The Chargers may look like geniuses down the road after we see how it all pans out, but they don't appear to me to have come out of this in the best place of the three teams. The mindblowing thing is that the Chargers could have ended up with that same package with the exception of Ben for Phil. :eek:
 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
- It's premature to make that call, but that attitude really means that we can only evaluate after players are retired. I mean, what if Tom Brady decides to pull a Ricky Williams.
No, we can evaluate players as soon as they start playing. Or, in a quarterback's case, as soon as he's played a couple years (since many QBs have a terrible first year or two and then go on to do very well).It is probably too early to evaluate Eli Manning, and it is definitely too early to evaluate Philip Rivers -- except to say that he sure does kneel perfectly with the ball. He's three-for-three at taking a knee.

 
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Jimmy James

Footballguy
- It's premature to make that call, but that attitude really means that we can only evaluate after players are retired. I mean, what if Tom Brady decides to pull a Ricky Williams.
No, we can evaluate players as soon as they start playing. Or, in a quarterback's case, as soon as he's played a couple years (since many QBs have a terrible first year or two and then go on to do very well).It is probably too early to evaluate Eli Manning, and it is definitely too early to evaluate Philip Rivers -- except to say that he sure does kneel perfectly with the ball. He's three-for-three at taking a knee.
So...I couldn't have called Yatil Green a bust until he officially retired? Nah, I don't think so. I understand that this is controversial, and I respect your right to a contrary opinion. I just don't think it's premature to evaluate these guys since they have been getting evaluated for their ability to be a pro player before they even entered the league via the draft. It makes no sense to me to be able to compare them then and not compare them now.
 

BassNBrew

IBL Representative
All I know is that I watched Pitt and Indy play Baltimore. Big Ben handled Baltimore as well if not better than Manning, less all the drama while standing behind the center.

 

QuizGuy66

Footballguy
I've got no dog in the fight, though I live in Giants country and I'm a Bengals fan (you gotta love that finish!). Anyhow, to those who try to pick on what the Chargers did, what else were they going to do with the #1 pick? It's clear they were going QB any which way. If they draft Eli for themselves, the dude never plays or reports later than Rivers, Brees plays, and things are probably similar (yeah no Kaeding, but we'll assume they get someone servicable there). So there situation is about where it probably would've been except they've got more building blocks in the form of those draft picks.If they draft Roethlisberger, perhaps things work out the same or similar (if you believe Roeth is the real deal regardless of coaching), perhaps not, but they'd have gotten ripped a new one for 'reaching' for him at that spot.Ultimately, I think the Giants gave up way too much for the guy, but regardless it's still way too early to tell about these 3. After all wasn't Tony Eason the first of that touted '83 class of QBs to make the Super Bowl and how did his career work out?-QG

 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
- It's premature to make that call, but that attitude really means that we can only evaluate after players are retired. I mean, what if Tom Brady decides to pull a Ricky Williams.
No, we can evaluate players as soon as they start playing. Or, in a quarterback's case, as soon as he's played a couple years (since many QBs have a terrible first year or two and then go on to do very well).It is probably too early to evaluate Eli Manning, and it is definitely too early to evaluate Philip Rivers -- except to say that he sure does kneel perfectly with the ball. He's three-for-three at taking a knee.
So...I couldn't have called Yatil Green a bust until he officially retired?
Where did I say anything about Yatil Green?
I just don't think it's premature to evaluate these guys since they have been getting evaluated for their ability to be a pro player before they even entered the league via the draft.
Well, if you're going by "before they entered the league," then I'd say Roethlisberger is third best of the rookie QBs.
It makes no sense to me to be able to compare them then and not compare them now.
Rivers hasn't attempted a pass yet. You think it's not premature to try to evaluate Rivers's ability as a pro?
 
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cstu

Footballguy
Ben has certainly staked his claim as the best of the three.
Ben looks good, but it's way premature to be making that call.
The Chargers got the best deal out of it since they have Rivers, Kaeding, at least a top 13 overall pick in the draft and a 5th rounder.All the Steelers did was draft the best QB available - no great insight on their part. If Rivers (or Manning) was there they would have drafted him and I think either would have done pretty well in that situation. Not taking anything away from Ben though, what he has done as a rookie is incredible - undefeated with a 96 rating, 65% completion rate and 15 TD's to 10 INT's. Time to buy low on Eli because as much as I can't stand him he is a talented QB and will figure out how to be an NFL QB within a couple years.
Not so fast my friend...the Steelers didn't panic and move up to the top of the draft to draft the best QB. Sometimes knowing when to sit tight is the best move.The Chargers have essentially traded Manning for Rivers who hasn't played a snap, a kicker :yucky: , and some draft choices that may or may not pan out. They may get the better end of the deal yet, but going into the playoffs I'd rather have some firepower on the field contributing now then a backup QB sucking up salary cap space.
The trade had to be made with the Giants since it was too good to refuse. I was never that high on Manning, so I didn't want the Chargers to pick him anyway. I wasn't particularly thrilled by them drafting Rivers when Sean Taylor and Roy Williams were available, though it made sense at the time with the problems Brees had in 2003. If you evaluate the trade, here what the Chargers got out of it:Rivers - a potential franchise QB. He's a winner, has a quick release and is extemely accurate. His sidearm delivery shouldn't be a problem since he has the height (6'5") to throw the ball over defenders.Kaeding - yes, he's a kicker but he is accurate and has a big leg. Kickers like Kaeding don't come around every year and the Chargers now have a dependable kicker for years to come.Roman Oben (thanks to Maurile Tremblay for reminding me that the Chargers got him in exchange for the Giants #5) - has been the key to turning around the Chargers O-line. He's a veteran with a Superbowl ring and has brought a lot of leadership to the team.The Giants 2005 #1 pick (between #5 and #13) - the Chargers are going to get a great player out of this pick, whether it's a WR like Mike Williams or Braylon Edwards, OL like D'Brickashaw Ferguson or Alex Barron, or defensive player like Ahmad Brooks, Thomas Davis, Rodrique Wright or Marcus Spears. Whoever it is will make an impact next year.I think being able to get 4 good players for one #1 pick is doing a good job :thumbup:
 
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Riffraff

Footballguy
The mindblowing thing is that the Chargers could have ended up with that same package with the exception of Ben for Phil. :eek:
We'd be saying Ben was a wasted pick (instead of Rivers) as Brees would still be playing at an MVP level.No one would know if Ben is as good as he is right now since he'd be holding a clipboard on the sideline.Rivers may be the best of the 3 QBs, who knows? The Chargers didn't have injuries (Pitt/Maddox) or a benching (NYG/Warner). We won't find out until next year if Rivers can get the starting nod.
 

Genghis Khan

Footballguy
Of course it's still early to tell who has done best out of the Chargers-Giants deal. If Eli Manning turns out to be as good as his brother, and Brees/Rivers (whoever the Chargers keep), turns out to be Brian Griese/Aaron Brooks, then the Giants may well have gotten the best of the deal.But I like the Chargers' hand right now.1. They have 2 QB's, one a proven commodity and one who has lots of potential. Forgetting for the moment about the salary cap implications, either of the two is tradeable for good value. Most teams lacking a good qb, would be happy to trade a first rounder in 2005 for either Brees or Rivers (after all Rivers was a consensus top 5 pick last year). They could potentially have 3 first round picks next year.2. They are set at QB. They are set at RB. They have an outstanding line coach, and an improved offensive line. They can add strength to that line, upgrade their WR corps, and their offense should be fine.3. They need to address the defense, but they should have the draft picks to do that. Overall, the Chargers look to be a team on the rise.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Let me clarify -- I am not a Giants fan. I think it's darn funny how it worked out, and I kind of like the Chargers. I honestly don't think a lot of GMs would want to be in the position they're in. If they trade either guy and appear to have made the wrong choice, it's really going to hurt them. If they keep them both, they won't have cap for improvements. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's a sticky wicket.
Hey Jimmy,The Chargers have $21 million (or more) under the cap this year. If they tagged Brees and did nothing with him (i.e., moving him or giving him a longer deal) they would still be left with $12 million+ under the cap; one of the more enviable cap situations in the league.
 

Jimmy James

Footballguy
Let me clarify -- I am not a Giants fan. I think it's darn funny how it worked out, and I kind of like the Chargers. I honestly don't think a lot of GMs would want to be in the position they're in. If they trade either guy and appear to have made the wrong choice, it's really going to hurt them. If they keep them both, they won't have cap for improvements. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's a sticky wicket.
Hey Jimmy,The Chargers have $21 million (or more) under the cap this year. If they tagged Brees and did nothing with him (i.e., moving him or giving him a longer deal) they would still be left with $12 million+ under the cap; one of the more enviable cap situations in the league.
Doing that only delays the problem a year, though. I acknowledge that they might figure out a good way of resolving this, but it isn't all roses.
 

Jimmy James

Footballguy
Where did I say anything about Yatil Green?

Well, if you're going by "before they entered the league," then I'd say Roethlisberger is third best of the rookie QBs.

Rivers hasn't attempted a pass yet. You think it's not premature to try to evaluate Rivers's ability as a pro?
You didn't say anything about Yatil Green, but I was applying your standard. Green didn't play, so by the standard you set I couldn't judge him until he played or retired.As to "before they entered the league", the Chargers would agree with you. Other teams and other scouts would not. IIRC, some would say Ben was the best.

Finally, I don't consider it to be premature -- I just think my evaluation is fluid and is subject to change based on the way all of the men involved progress. I understand that Rivers drew the short straw in terms of opportunity, but the fact remains that he is the one guy who has not pushed the starter out of the way to earn playing time. That means something when one of the guys has done nothing but win and the other guy pushed hard enough to get a former MVP benched even when his team was in playoff contention.

 

Sinrman

Footballguy
Not going to bother reading the replies, so if this is repeated, forgive me...Sure, it's nice for the Chargers to have the nice picks going into next year, but right now, I think the Giants are up on this trade. Eli has very valuable game experience. Rivers does not.Also, during the offseason, the Chargers have a VERY hard decision to make in sticking with Brees, and keeping Rivers on the bench AGAIN, or letting Brees go.

 

Urinal Mint

Footballguy
Which WR will San Diego draft with their pick?I think they'd be silly not to go after a RB at such a high position, however. Tomlinson will wear out in another 4 years with all the mileage he's sustained.

 

bicycle_seat_sniffer

Smells like chicken
Not going to bother reading the replies, so if this is repeated, forgive me...Sure, it's nice for the Chargers to have the nice picks going into next year, but right now, I think the Giants are up on this trade. Eli has very valuable game experience. Rivers does not.

Also, during the offseason, the Chargers have a VERY hard decision to make in sticking with Brees, and keeping Rivers on the bench AGAIN, or letting Brees go.
There really is not decision to make like Parcells said, if finding a QB was easy the whole league would have one, SD will franchise Brees he'll make 9-10 million, they can take the cap hit. Then if Brees is a one year wonder or gets injured they have Rivers waiting in the wings. Now Brees might hold out and want a long term deal etc. but I don't see him going anywhere.
 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
Finally, I don't consider it to be premature -- I just think my evaluation is fluid and is subject to change based on the way all of the men involved progress. I understand that Rivers drew the short straw in terms of opportunity, but the fact remains that he is the one guy who has not pushed the starter out of the way to earn playing time.
As Riffraff mentioned, if the Chargers had drafted Roethlisberger, he'd be the QB you'd think isn't as good as the others. That wouldn't be premature?
 

Jimmy James

Footballguy
Finally, I don't consider it to be premature -- I just think my evaluation is fluid and is subject to change based on the way all of the men involved progress. I understand that Rivers drew the short straw in terms of opportunity, but the fact remains that he is the one guy who has not pushed the starter out of the way to earn playing time.
As Riffraff mentioned, if the Chargers had drafted Roethlisberger, he'd be the QB you'd think isn't as good as the others. That wouldn't be premature?
You can speculate that. I can speculate that he might not have held out and may well be leading the Chargers to the Super Bowl. The truth is that none of us really know.As good as Brees has been, we have to remember that he was in the doghouse in the offseason and that only a pigheaded holdout by Rivers prevented the rookie from competing for that job in camp. If Ben doesn't hold out and if he looks like he has for the Steelers, it is his job.

 
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Gatorman

Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Let us not downplay the fact that this was brees' contract year and he had a guy pushing him for his future as a QB not just as a charger, but as an NFL starting QB. A lot have things have fallen just right for the chargers, and rivers' holdout may have been the best thing that happenned to them.In the end, the chargers are sitting pretty this year, and should be able to build on this. However, the AFC west is still a competitive division and they could be 6-10 next year just as easily as 10-6.

 

Jimmy James

Footballguy
Let us not downplay the fact that this was brees' contract year and he had a guy pushing him for his future as a QB not just as a charger, but as an NFL starting QB. A lot have things have fallen just right for the chargers, and rivers' holdout may have been the best thing that happenned to them.In the end, the chargers are sitting pretty this year, and should be able to build on this. However, the AFC west is still a competitive division and they could be 6-10 next year just as easily as 10-6.
No doubt. The irony is that Maurile would probably be perfectly comfortable with judging Brees for losing his job because he has had a couple of years if things had worked out differently. That is one reason why I feel comfortable with evaluating everybody but feel that evaluations have to be fluid.
 

Gatorman

Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Let us not downplay the fact that this was brees' contract year and he had a guy pushing him for his future as a QB not just as a charger, but as an NFL starting QB. A lot have things have fallen just right for the chargers, and rivers' holdout may have been the best thing that happenned to them.In the end, the chargers are sitting pretty this year, and should be able to build on this. However, the AFC west is still a competitive division and they could be 6-10 next year just as easily as 10-6.
No doubt. The irony is that Maurile would probably be perfectly comfortable with judging Brees for losing his job because he has had a couple of years if things had worked out differently. That is one reason why I feel comfortable with evaluating everybody but feel that evaluations have to be fluid.
Actually, Maurile is one of the most level headed fans I have ever met. And without putting words in his mouth, he'll take what the chargers have done, no matter how you slice it. If they get antrelle rolle with the giants pick next year (or trade their 2 first rounders to Miami for the #4 pick to take him) I don't think he'll be complaining about that either.
 

Jimmy James

Footballguy
Let us not downplay the fact that this was brees' contract year and he had a guy pushing him for his future as a QB not just as a charger, but as an NFL starting QB.  A lot have things have fallen just right for the chargers, and rivers' holdout may have been the best thing that happenned to them.In the end, the chargers are sitting pretty this year, and should be able to build on this.  However, the AFC west is still a competitive division and they could be 6-10 next year just as easily as 10-6.
No doubt. The irony is that Maurile would probably be perfectly comfortable with judging Brees for losing his job because he has had a couple of years if things had worked out differently. That is one reason why I feel comfortable with evaluating everybody but feel that evaluations have to be fluid.
Actually, Maurile is one of the most level headed fans I have ever met. And without putting words in his mouth, he'll take what the chargers have done, no matter how you slice it. If they get antrelle rolle with the giants pick next year (or trade their 2 first rounders to Miami for the #4 pick to take him) I don't think he'll be complaining about that either.
Oh, I totally agree. I don't mean that as an attack on Maurile -- I meant it as a probing comment about how all of our evaluations are imperfect and subject to change because they are so very dependant on team politics and opportunities. For instance, Joe Montana is seen as a huge clutch QB and Dan Marino is seen as the ultimate in stat QBs who couldn't get a championship done. What do you get if they just happen to end up on the opposite teams? Does Montana lead my Dolphins to glory like he did with the Niners? Does he end up looking no better than Strock or Woodley? Does Dan still have trouble getting it done, or does he win a sick number of championships for the Niners? We don't know, and I think we can probably make good faith arguments in all of those directions.
 

Sinrman

Footballguy
Not going to bother reading the replies, so if this is repeated, forgive me...Sure, it's nice for the Chargers to have the nice picks going into next year, but right now, I think the Giants are up on this trade. Eli has very valuable game experience. Rivers does not.

Also, during the offseason, the Chargers have a VERY hard decision to make in sticking with Brees, and keeping Rivers on the bench AGAIN, or letting Brees go.
There really is not decision to make like Parcells said, if finding a QB was easy the whole league would have one, SD will franchise Brees he'll make 9-10 million, they can take the cap hit. Then if Brees is a one year wonder or gets injured they have Rivers waiting in the wings. Now Brees might hold out and want a long term deal etc. but I don't see him going anywhere.
I have to disagree with you. Not saying SD won't do what you say, but there are some major problems with that scenario (franchising Brees).

First off, franchising Brees mean that they have TWO QBs now making a ton of $$ and eating up a lot of cap room that they would be best served throwing at other players/2005 draft picks.

Second, keeping Brees in SD poses problems. Will Brees stay in SD of course is the biggest question. If he does, then will he stay the starter? If so, then they spent a high 1st round pick and huge amounts of $$ on a guy they won't use for....2 years, at least?! That'd be a huge waste. Not to mention Rivers would have no real game experience, which pushes back his learning curve even further. If you keep Brees there, but Rivers turns into the starter (a la Carson Palmer taking over for Jon Kitna this year), then I don't see Brees being a very happy camper. He wants to start SOMEWHERE. I think he'd prefer SD, and he's said so on occasion. The players around him (especially the outspoken LT) like Brees and want him to stay. But why franchis a guy, pay him $9-$10 million a year, and keep him on the bench?!

This is why I say SD has some VERY tough decisions to make.
 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
The irony is that Maurile would probably be perfectly comfortable with judging Brees for losing his job because he has had a couple of years if things had worked out differently.
I'm not going to do a search to try to bump old threads, but last offseason I maintained that we couldn't judge Brees based on 2003 because he had no offensive line and no receivers. Get him an offensive line and we'll see what happens. In 2001 and 2002 he'd shown flashes of being a good QB. That's why I wanted to draft Robert Gallery this year instead of a QB (although once the trade was pulled off, I liked getting the extra #1, #3, and #5 in addition to the QB). I would have been quite comfortable going into this season with Brees again, and then drafting a QB in 2005 if he didn't improve with a better OL in front of him.
 

Jimmy James

Footballguy
The irony is that Maurile would probably be perfectly comfortable with judging Brees for losing his job because he has had a couple of years if things had worked out differently.
I'm not going to do a search to try to bump old threads, but last offseason I maintained that we couldn't judge Brees based on 2003 because he had no offensive line and no receivers. Get him an offensive line and we'll see what happens. In 2001 and 2002 he'd shown flashes of being a good QB. That's why I wanted to draft Robert Gallery this year instead of a QB (although once the trade was pulled off, I liked getting the extra #1, #3, and #5 in addition to the QB). I would have been quite comfortable going into this season with Brees again, and then drafting a QB in 2005 if he didn't improve with a better OL in front of him.
Fair enough. I will absolutely trust your word there.
 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
First off, franchising Brees mean that they have TWO QBs now making a ton of $$ and eating up a lot of cap room that they would be best served throwing at other players/2005 draft picks.
Rivers isn't making all that much going forward. I think his 2005 cap number is $2.9 million. Chump change, relatively speaking.
Second, keeping Brees in SD poses problems. Will Brees stay in SD of course is the biggest question. If he does, then will he stay the starter? If so, then they spent a high 1st round pick and huge amounts of $$ on a guy they won't use for....2 years, at least?! That'd be a huge waste.
As big a waste as Steve McNair and Chad Pennington were in their first two seasons, I suppose.I don't think it's a waste to have a very good backup QB. It's something that can come in pretty handy.
 

JAA

Footballguy
I'm not going to do a search to try to bump old threads, but last offseason I maintained that we couldn't judge Brees based on 2003 because he had no offensive line and no receivers.
lol ... I remember readin this :bag:
 

Marauder

Footballguy
The Chargers do have a tough decision but I think its a problem that a lot of other teams would like to have. Brees will be franchise tagged without question. The only question is whether they keep him as the starter for another year or if they trade him, which allows them to pick up another high pick and puts them in a great position capwise to load up on free agents at other positions.As to the Giants, obviously it will be a few years before we know if this is a good deal for them or not. The problem I have with it though is that they gave up more to move up from 4 to 1 than Atlanta did to move up from 5 to 1 to get Vick and that year there were no other first round QB's. This year there were two other QB's ranked in the top 10-15 picks overall. They could have not only stayed where they were and gotten one of them but they could have traded down (remember Cleveland was trying desperately to trade up), kept all their own picks and picked up extra picks and still gotten Rivers or Big Ben (and this is a team that has a lot of holes and could really use those picks). IMO, For this to be a good deal for them, Eli needs to be not only the best of the three QB's but the best by a significant margin.

 

3nOut

Footballguy
With Farve retiring within a couple years, they could sign drew and have him take over for Farve.
With Brees now a pro-bowler, I highly doubt he signs with GB to be a backup. Only IF Favre retires would Brees sign with the Packers.
 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
With Farve retiring within a couple years, they could sign drew and have him take over for Farve.
With Brees now a pro-bowler, I highly doubt he signs with GB to be a backup. Only IF Favre retires would Brees sign with the Packers.
Agreed.Brees isn't signing anywhere, the Chargers will tag him either to keep him (my guess) or to trade him. But I agree that Brees' isn't going to be too open to a trade to GB without a long term deal and some assurances as to his playing time in 2006 and later.

 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
Brees isn't signing anywhere, the Chargers will tag him either to keep him (my guess) or to trade him. But I agree that Brees' isn't going to be too open to a trade to GB without a long term deal and some assurances as to his playing time in 2006 and later.
I would even say 2005. I don't think Brees will go anywhere to be a backup next year if he can stay in SD and start. (Brees will get to choose where he ends up. The Chargers wouldn't be able to trade him without his cooperation.)If Favre were to retire this year, that'd be one thing. Otherwise, I think Brees is more likely to end up somewhere like Miami, Arizona, Cleveland, Dallas, Washington . . . somewhere where he'd be the immediate starter.(That's if he doesn't stay in San Diego, of course.)
 
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bicycle_seat_sniffer

Smells like chicken
I know its just my opinion but QB's don't grow on trees, Brees will stay in SD, #1 he saved himself, Marty and AJ smith's job this year.#2 This is not a Kitna/Palmer situation. Everyone knows what kitna is and the Palmer kid clearly has more talent. Brees took 3 years to get the system and with the emergence of Gates/Caldwell/Parker took it to the next level.#3 He will be franchised make 9-12 million and unless someone totally blows them away with an offer, like say two #1's , he's a bolt!

 

cstu

Footballguy
I know its just my opinion but QB's don't grow on trees, Brees will stay in SD, #1 he saved himself, Marty and AJ smith's job this year.#2 This is not a Kitna/Palmer situation. Everyone knows what kitna is and the Palmer kid clearly has more talent. Brees took 3 years to get the system and with the emergence of Gates/Caldwell/Parker took it to the next level.#3 He will be franchised make 9-12 million and unless someone totally blows them away with an offer, like say two #1's , he's a bolt!
The Chargers didn't draft Rivers for him to sit the bench for the rest of his career and they aren't going to trade him. Therefore, Brees will franchised and traded for the best offer they can get. There are quite a few teams (SF, Cleveland, Miami, AZ) with high drafts picks that need a QB that don't want to use that first pick on a QB. Look for one of them to offer their high #2 with some other draft picks/players for Brees. GB and Dallas also have late 1st rounds picks that they could offer for Brees. The best situation would be for Cleveland to trade Garcia and their #2 for Brees. This would allow them to draft D'Brickashaw Ferguson, get a good young QB and not have to pay Garcia next year. For the Chargers Garcia would be a good backup and is only $4.5 million.With the extra money saved by trading Brees, the Chargers can make an offer to Muhammed and be in very good shape for next year. Kyle Turley may also be an option (if he can get healthy) since it's clear he won't be back with the Rams. There's a lot of options for the Chargers that's for sure.
 
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Just Win Baby

Footballguy
I know its just my opinion but QB's don't grow on trees, Brees will stay in SD, #1 he saved himself, Marty and AJ smith's job this year.#2 This is not a Kitna/Palmer situation. Everyone knows what kitna is and the Palmer kid clearly has more talent. Brees took 3 years to get the system and with the emergence of Gates/Caldwell/Parker took it to the next level.#3 He will be franchised make 9-12 million and unless someone totally blows them away with an offer, like say two #1's , he's a bolt!
One factor I haven't seen mentioned here is the notion of selling high. If the Chargers keep Brees and he doesn't repeat his career year, they will be worse off when they have to decide whether to let him walk or trade him next year. And what are the odds that he will repeat his career year? I would expect some regression in his play.It would be different if they were in position to potentially keep Brees as their starter indefinitely, but they aren't, unless they are willing to trade Rivers instead and take a massive cap hit, which I consider unlikely.I am one of the biggest Rivers fans on this board, and I personally think the best thing to do is franchise and trade Brees and hand over the reins to Rivers. That's why they drafted Rivers, so they obviously have confidence in his ability to be an effective starter.Even with Brees's excellent play this season, trading him still seems to be the best way to maximize value to the team, as it will spread the available salary cap money and, thus, talent across more positions.
 

jurb26

Footballguy
As Riffraff mentioned, if the Chargers had drafted Roethlisberger, he'd be the QB you'd think isn't as good as the others. That wouldn't be premature?
How can people keep saying this? Was it not a hold out by Rivers that prevented a training camp battle for the position? Ben did not hold out. How do you know that had Ben been there he would not have won this job in the preseason and camp. How do you know that Rivers wouldn't have for that matter if he did not hold out. Talk about speculation.
 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
Well, okay, maybe Leigh Steinberg wouldn't have been as silly Jimmy Sexton, trying to demand the same contract Eli Manning got.But Drew Brees looked very good in training camp and during the preseason this year. It would have been tough for any rookie to beat him out in a fair competition.

 

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