That Dungy-Kiffin coaching tree is sure branching out (1 Viewer)

[Capella]

Dungy

Lovie

Edwards

Marinelli

Tomlin

and future head coach Joe Barry.

And none of them coaching the Bucs now. What a coaching staff that was.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Chuck Noll must be a proud father/grandfather

 

[gump]

The Glazers frown on loyalty.

 

[mcjc4]

Dungy got his big break from Denny Green.

That makes all these guys the newest fruits of the Bill Walsh coaching tree.

 

[gump]

That makes all these guys the newest fruits of the Bill Walsh coaching tree.

75% at least of the NFL now is from the "Bill Walsh coaching tree".

 

[Capella]

The Glazers frown on loyalty.

Seems like they're being pretty loyal to Gruden.

 

[gump]

The Glazers frown on loyalty.

Seems like they're being pretty loyal to Gruden.

Cmon Capella...Winning a SB gets you 4 years...the royalties last that long. The Glazers have no attachment to Gruden other than the $$ he made them.

 

[Capella]

The Glazers frown on loyalty.

Seems like they're being pretty loyal to Gruden.

Cmon Capella...Winning a SB gets you 4 years...the royalties last that long. The Glazers have no attachment to Gruden other than the $$ he made them.

They could have easily fired him this off-season and nobody would have blinked an eye.

 

[gump]

The Glazers frown on loyalty.

Seems like they're being pretty loyal to Gruden.

Cmon Capella...Winning a SB gets you 4 years...the royalties last that long. The Glazers have no attachment to Gruden other than the $$ he made them.

They could have easily fired him this off-season and nobody would have blinked an eye.

And hired who?

 

[Capella]

How does Kiffin, who has never even been an NFL HC, get co-billing with Dungy here?

Many credit him for turning Marinelli, Tomlin into great coaches.

 

[Capella]

The Glazers frown on loyalty.

Seems like they're being pretty loyal to Gruden.

Cmon Capella...Winning a SB gets you 4 years...the royalties last that long. The Glazers have no attachment to Gruden other than the $$ he made them.

They could have easily fired him this off-season and nobody would have blinked an eye.

And hired who?

No idea. Glad they kept him. Just saying, some teams probably would have canned him.

 

[gump]

The Glazers frown on loyalty.

Seems like they're being pretty loyal to Gruden.

Cmon Capella...Winning a SB gets you 4 years...the royalties last that long. The Glazers have no attachment to Gruden other than the $$ he made them.

They could have easily fired him this off-season and nobody would have blinked an eye.

And hired who?

No idea. Glad they kept him. Just saying, some teams probably would have canned him.

It's a question that I'm not sure has ever had to have been answered. Has any SB team ever been this bad 3 of 4 years following the win?

 

[Capella]

The Glazers frown on loyalty.

Seems like they're being pretty loyal to Gruden.

Cmon Capella...Winning a SB gets you 4 years...the royalties last that long. The Glazers have no attachment to Gruden other than the $$ he made them.

They could have easily fired him this off-season and nobody would have blinked an eye.

And hired who?

No idea. Glad they kept him. Just saying, some teams probably would have canned him.

It's a question that I'm not sure has ever had to have been answered. Has any SB team ever been this bad 3 of 4 years following the win?

I'd have to look at the Ravens. Know they had a few bad years in there, not sure quite this bad.

 

[Capella]

The Glazers frown on loyalty.

Seems like they're being pretty loyal to Gruden.

Cmon Capella...Winning a SB gets you 4 years...the royalties last that long. The Glazers have no attachment to Gruden other than the $$ he made them.

They could have easily fired him this off-season and nobody would have blinked an eye.

And hired who?

No idea. Glad they kept him. Just saying, some teams probably would have canned him.

It's a question that I'm not sure has ever had to have been answered. Has any SB team ever been this bad 3 of 4 years following the win?

I'd have to look at the Ravens. Know they had a few bad years in there, not sure quite this bad.

Nope, not even close. I can't think of any.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Dungy got his big break from Denny Green.

That makes all these guys the newest fruits of the Bill Walsh coaching tree.

Despite being a collegiate QB Dungy is all about D.

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/359975.html

Mike Tomlin learned it at the knee of Dungy, who learned it at the knee of Chuck Noll and his defensive staff.

"If you listen to coach Dungy, he'll remind you of that," Tomlin said after he finished his second interview with the Steelers, which lasted about 3 1/2 hours and stretched into the early evening. "A lot of people refer to it as Tampa 2, and he's always one to cite his sources. He reminds you of that."

 

[Capella]

How does Kiffin, who has never even been an NFL HC, get co-billing with Dungy here?

Many credit him for turning Marinelli, Tomlin into great coaches.

Tomlin, though, has been preparing for this job since 1995, when he began coaching at Virginia Military Institute after playing wide receiver at William & Mary. He spent the past five seasons learning under longtime Tampa Bay defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin as the Buccaneers' secondary coach.

as I was saying..

 

[Capella]

How does Kiffin, who has never even been an NFL HC, get co-billing with Dungy here?

Many credit him for turning Marinelli, Tomlin into great coaches.

Tomlin, though, has been preparing for this job since 1995, when he began coaching at Virginia Military Institute after playing wide receiver at William & Mary. He spent the past five seasons learning under longtime Tampa Bay defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin as the Buccaneers' secondary coach.

as I was saying..

Since the cover 2 was in with the Steelers in the 70's, incidently the same Steeler's in the 70's that Dungy played for and under the legendary Chuck Noll...and since Dungy did the coach hiring and instituting of the defense in Tampa, I still fail to see why Kiffin gets co-billing here. Taking nothing away from Kiffin as a coach...but the bottom line is this is Dungy's baby, not Kiffin's.Did Belichick get credit for the guys on Parcells coaching tree? As in Parcells hires? Of course not...same applies here Capella.

I think you may be taking this just a weeee bit too serious, . Dungy/Kiffin helped turn those guys into great coaches. Not the "legendary" Chuck Noll. He had nothing to do with these guys. And Kiffin is really the guy responsible for Tomlin, Barry (coming to an available HC position near you next year) and largely Marinelli.

 

[gump]

Since the cover 2 was in with the Steelers in the 70's, incidently the same Steeler's in the 70's that Dungy played for and under the legendary Chuck Noll...and since Dungy did the coach hiring and instituting of the defense in Tampa, I still fail to see why Kiffin gets co-billing here. Taking nothing away from Kiffin as a coach...but the bottom line is this is Dungy's baby, not Kiffin's.

The "Tampa 2" was made by a defensive line that could rush the passer and stop the run with 4 guys...therefore allowing the zone D to attack...and that was based on WARREN SAPP.The scheme may have been Dungy's...but the players were drafted by Sam Wyche...Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, and John Lynch.

 

[gump]

Since the cover 2 was in with the Steelers in the 70's, incidently the same Steeler's in the 70's that Dungy played for and under the legendary Chuck Noll...and since Dungy did the coach hiring and instituting of the defense in Tampa, I still fail to see why Kiffin gets co-billing here. Taking nothing away from Kiffin as a coach...but the bottom line is this is Dungy's baby, not Kiffin's.

The "Tampa 2" was made by a defensive line that could rush the passer and stop the run with 4 guys...

Yeah of course, there is no similarity to the 70's Steeler D-Line here...

My point is that Sam Wyche drafted the players that made the Tampa 2...

 

[Capella]

How does Kiffin, who has never even been an NFL HC, get co-billing with Dungy here?

Many credit him for turning Marinelli, Tomlin into great coaches.

Tomlin, though, has been preparing for this job since 1995, when he began coaching at Virginia Military Institute after playing wide receiver at William & Mary. He spent the past five seasons learning under longtime Tampa Bay defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin as the Buccaneers' secondary coach.

as I was saying..

Since the cover 2 was in with the Steelers in the 70's, incidently the same Steeler's in the 70's that Dungy played for and under the legendary Chuck Noll...and since Dungy did the coach hiring and instituting of the defense in Tampa, I still fail to see why Kiffin gets co-billing here. Taking nothing away from Kiffin as a coach...but the bottom line is this is Dungy's baby, not Kiffin's.Did Belichick get credit for the guys on Parcells coaching tree? As in Parcells hires? Of course not...same applies here Capella.

I think you may be taking this just a weeee bit too serious, . Dungy/Kiffin helped turn those guys into great coaches. Not the "legendary" Chuck Noll. He had nothing to do with these guys. And Kiffin is really the guy responsible for Tomlin, Barry (coming to an available HC position near you next year) and largely Marinelli.

I will simply end with this. If you can show me an assistant coach, who has never had a HC gig in the NFL, that gets co-billing on a coaching tree in the same way you are giving co-billing to Kiffin here...then you might have a leg to stand on. But since you cannot, you don't

I don't really care enough to take the time to prove anything to you. You're nothing to me. Take it or leave it, I really don't care. The guy was instrumental in developing a bunch of great coaches. I'm sure we'll all be able to make it through the day with the knowledge "It is what it is" isn't impressed.

 

[Capella]

Since the cover 2 was in with the Steelers in the 70's, incidently the same Steeler's in the 70's that Dungy played for and under the legendary Chuck Noll...and since Dungy did the coach hiring and instituting of the defense in Tampa, I still fail to see why Kiffin gets co-billing here. Taking nothing away from Kiffin as a coach...but the bottom line is this is Dungy's baby, not Kiffin's.

The "Tampa 2" was made by a defensive line that could rush the passer and stop the run with 4 guys...

Yeah of course, there is no similarity to the 70's Steeler D-Line here...

How many Steeler Fatheads do you have hanging up in your basement?

 

[Capella]

How does Kiffin, who has never even been an NFL HC, get co-billing with Dungy here?

Many credit him for turning Marinelli, Tomlin into great coaches.

Tomlin, though, has been preparing for this job since 1995, when he began coaching at Virginia Military Institute after playing wide receiver at William & Mary. He spent the past five seasons learning under longtime Tampa Bay defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin as the Buccaneers' secondary coach.

as I was saying..

Since the cover 2 was in with the Steelers in the 70's, incidently the same Steeler's in the 70's that Dungy played for and under the legendary Chuck Noll...and since Dungy did the coach hiring and instituting of the defense in Tampa, I still fail to see why Kiffin gets co-billing here. Taking nothing away from Kiffin as a coach...but the bottom line is this is Dungy's baby, not Kiffin's.Did Belichick get credit for the guys on Parcells coaching tree? As in Parcells hires? Of course not...same applies here Capella.

I think you may be taking this just a weeee bit too serious, . Dungy/Kiffin helped turn those guys into great coaches. Not the "legendary" Chuck Noll. He had nothing to do with these guys. And Kiffin is really the guy responsible for Tomlin, Barry (coming to an available HC position near you next year) and largely Marinelli.

I will simply end with this. If you can show me an assistant coach, who has never had a HC gig in the NFL, that gets co-billing on a coaching tree in the same way you are giving co-billing to Kiffin here...then you might have a leg to stand on. But since you cannot, you don't

I don't really care enough to take the time to prove anything to you. You're nothing to me. Take it or leave it, I really don't care. The guy was instrumental in developing a bunch of great coaches. I'm sure we'll all be able to make it through the day with the knowledge "It is what it is" isn't impressed.

Don't forget to call you local network and explain to them the next time they are hyping the Belichick versus Mangini teacher-pupil matchup, that it is actually the Belichick-Crennel versus Mangini teacher-pupil matchup.

Not really the same, but I won't bother explaining it.

 

[Punchie]

Dungy brought the Cover-2 scheme over, Kiffen made it the Tampa-2. The two-deep zone is an old scheme, but it was Kiffin who made it into what it is. The only D-Coordinator who has as much of a fingerprint on his team as Kiffin is Jim Johnson with the Eagles. If the Eagles start spewing out head coaches from the defensive assistant spots then I think we could call it the Reid/Johnson tree.

Fact is, all of these coaches from the Dungy/Kiffin tree are defensive, and Kiffin was responsible for the defense.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Isn't this the name of a paper product company?

 

[Capella]

pathetic

dude can't even follow along with what the thread is about.

IIWII -- we all understand that Dungy/Kiffin were not the first ones to run the cover-2 or the tampa-2 or the legendary chuck noll-2 or the it is what it is-2. we get it. we're not all as stupid as you're coming off. that's not what the thread is about though. go back and re-read it, and try again please.

tia

 

[QUEZILLA]

<---------------------------------------------Doesn't get enough credit

 

[Capella]

Dungy brought the Cover-2 scheme over, Kiffen made it the Tampa-2. The two-deep zone is an old scheme, but it was Kiffin who made it into what it is. The only D-Coordinator who has as much of a fingerprint on his team as Kiffin is Jim Johnson with the Eagles. If the Eagles start spewing out head coaches from the defensive assistant spots then I think we could call it the Reid/Johnson tree. Fact is, all of these coaches from the Dungy/Kiffin tree are defensive, and Kiffin was responsible for the defense.

But really, Chuck Noll started it, so even though he had nothing to do with these coaches, or players, he gets all the credit here.

 

[Capella]

You cannot...game over.

You're the only one playing the game ... nobody else cares.In the history of message boards, I'm not sure anybody has ever been more lost or confused than you are right now.

 

[Capella]

You cannot...game over.

You're the only one playing the game ... nobody else cares.In the history of message boards, I'm not sure anybody has ever been more lost or confused than you are right now.

This is Capella's posts - "I won't bother explaining...you are confused." More Capella - "Everybody listen to me IIWI is confused, watch this hand, now watch the other hand, I am David Copperfield, no wait, I am David Blaine. Listen to me...watch this...I've just said nothing"

You're more confused than a virgin on prom night.The point of the thread was that Dungy and Kiffin did an outstanding job developing great coaches. That's obvious. Meanwhile, you've gone on some weird, bizarre tangent about how Chuck Noll started the cover-2 and Mean Joe Greene was really swell or something. But carry on, circus monkey. I think we're all enjoying this.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Isn't this the name of a paper product company?

I really thought this was funny. Dunder-Mifflin? I'll try harder.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Kiffin never put his stamp on the cover 2, he simply used Dungy's version of it. Look at the defensive strength players on Pittsburgh, then look at them in Minnesota (minus the CB's), and look at them in Tampa. The strength players all mirror each other to a T...as does the scheme. Dungy brought it back...not Kiffin.And again, show me one coaching tree that gives co-billing to a coordinator along with the coach. You cannot...game over.

With apologies to Capella for continuing this hijack (Perry Fewell may be in this discussion soon too BTW), Punchie was correct. The Tampa-2 is a good bit different from the Cover-2 schemes of the Steel Curtain. And while I think Dungy isn't getting quite enough credit from Punchie, Kiffin was definitely the architect of the changes to the coverage concepts that make the Tampa-2 what it is. Just because a stud defensive coordinator doesn't become a head coach (or a good one -- see also **** LeBeau) doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve credit for spawning coaches that do (or are). Kiffin deserves mention in this discussion. Dungy and the others wouldn't be where they are without him.

 

[Capella]

Kiffin never put his stamp on the cover 2, he simply used Dungy's version of it. Look at the defensive strength players on Pittsburgh, then look at them in Minnesota (minus the CB's), and look at them in Tampa. The strength players all mirror each other to a T...as does the scheme. Dungy brought it back...not Kiffin.And again, show me one coaching tree that gives co-billing to a coordinator along with the coach. You cannot...game over.

With apologies to Capella for continuing this hijack (Perry Fewell may be in this discussion soon too BTW), Punchie was correct. The Tampa-2 is a good bit different from the Cover-2 schemes of the Steel Curtain. And while I think Dungy isn't getting quite enough credit from Punchie, Kiffin was definitely the architect of the changes to the coverage concepts that make the Tampa-2 what it is. Just because a stud defensive coordinator doesn't become a head coach (or a good one -- see also **** LeBeau) doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve credit for spawning coaches that do (or are). Kiffin deserves mention in this discussion. Dungy and the others wouldn't be where they are without him.

read this twice, and then call me in the morning, 'it is'.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Is there a coach in this league that DOESN'T have roots back to either Chuck Noll, Bill Parcells, or Bill Walsh?

 

[Jene Bramel]

Kiffin never put his stamp on the cover 2, he simply used Dungy's version of it. Look at the defensive strength players on Pittsburgh, then look at them in Minnesota (minus the CB's), and look at them in Tampa. The strength players all mirror each other to a T...as does the scheme. Dungy brought it back...not Kiffin.

And again, show me one coaching tree that gives co-billing to a coordinator along with the coach. You cannot...game over.

With apologies to Capella for continuing this hijack (Perry Fewell may be in this discussion soon too BTW), Punchie was correct. The Tampa-2 is a good bit different from the Cover-2 schemes of the Steel Curtain. And while I think Dungy isn't getting quite enough credit from Punchie, Kiffin was definitely the architect of the changes to the coverage concepts that make the Tampa-2 what it is.

Kinda stating the obvious here, aren't ya Jene? After all, the game has evolved pretty heavily since then. Specifically, the five yard chuck rule. How about comparing Kiffin's scheme to Dungy's scheme in Minnesota? Show me a difference there please...

Not sure how I get a double good posting and this in the span of two posts, , Capella. But thanks. Of course the game has evolved, that's why the scheme is different. The major point of that sentence was to highlight (for IIWII) the fact that the Carson Cover-2 looks and the current "Tampa-2" Cover-2 schemes are different animals.Carson could use the Cover-2 because of the pressure his front four could generate. That hasn't changed -- it's obviously key to any Cover-2. What has changed is Dungy and Kiffin pioneering the change from bulkier DEs to smaller, quicker, edge-rushing players -- Chris Doleman, Simeon Rice. And using more of a shifted defensive tackle (undertackle/NT) technique to generate inside pressure -- Keith Millard, Warren Sapp. They also schemed to give the safeties help in the middle of the deep zone by finding MLBs who could cover -- Del Rio, Nickerson (not the greatest example). While Lambert could certainly cover players in the intermediate zone, he was never asked to turn and sprint ten yards into the deep zone on a regular basis.

Those were kind of my points, not that there's any difference between the Kiffin and Dungy schemes.

 

[Irish]

Kiffin never put his stamp on the cover 2, he simply used Dungy's version of it. Look at the defensive strength players on Pittsburgh, then look at them in Minnesota (minus the CB's), and look at them in Tampa. The strength players all mirror each other to a T...as does the scheme. Dungy brought it back...not Kiffin.

And again, show me one coaching tree that gives co-billing to a coordinator along with the coach. You cannot...game over.

With apologies to Capella for continuing this hijack (Perry Fewell may be in this discussion soon too BTW), Punchie was correct. The Tampa-2 is a good bit different from the Cover-2 schemes of the Steel Curtain. And while I think Dungy isn't getting quite enough credit from Punchie, Kiffin was definitely the architect of the changes to the coverage concepts that make the Tampa-2 what it is.

Kinda stating the obvious here, aren't ya Jene? After all, the game has evolved pretty heavily since then. Specifically, the five yard chuck rule. How about comparing Kiffin's scheme to Dungy's scheme in Minnesota? Show me a difference there please...

Not sure how I get a double good posting and this in the span of two posts, , Capella. But thanks. Of course the game has evolved, that's why the scheme is different. The major point of that sentence was to highlight (for IIWII) the fact that the Carson Cover-2 looks and the current "Tampa-2" Cover-2 schemes are different animals.Carson could use the Cover-2 because of the pressure his front four could generate. That hasn't changed -- it's obviously key to any Cover-2. What has changed is Dungy and Kiffin pioneering the change from bulkier DEs to smaller, quicker, edge-rushing players -- Chris Doleman, Simeon Rice. And using more of a shifted defensive tackle (undertackle/NT) technique to generate inside pressure -- Keith Millard, Warren Sapp. They also schemed to give the safeties help in the middle of the deep zone by finding MLBs who could cover -- Del Rio, Nickerson (not the greatest example). While Lambert could certainly cover players in the intermediate zone, he was never asked to turn and sprint ten yards into the deep zone on a regular basis.

Those were kind of my points, not that there's any difference between the Kiffin and Dungy schemes.

Lambert didn't have to, Jack Ham is the best cover LB evah.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Dungy got his big break from Denny Green.That makes all these guys the newest fruits of the Bill Walsh coaching tree.

I assume this is sarcasm since Dungy was a Pitt D-Coordinator prior to being the Vikes D-Coordinator. Also, I believe Denny scrapped the cover 2 scheme after Dungy left town, so I don't see how Dungy could in any way be part of Denny Green illustrious branch on Walsh's tree.

 

[Demons]

Is Lane Kiffin related to Monty Kiffin?

 

[Jene Bramel]

Kiffin never put his stamp on the cover 2, he simply used Dungy's version of it. Look at the defensive strength players on Pittsburgh, then look at them in Minnesota (minus the CB's), and look at them in Tampa. The strength players all mirror each other to a T...as does the scheme. Dungy brought it back...not Kiffin.

And again, show me one coaching tree that gives co-billing to a coordinator along with the coach. You cannot...game over.

With apologies to Capella for continuing this hijack (Perry Fewell may be in this discussion soon too BTW), Punchie was correct. The Tampa-2 is a good bit different from the Cover-2 schemes of the Steel Curtain. And while I think Dungy isn't getting quite enough credit from Punchie, Kiffin was definitely the architect of the changes to the coverage concepts that make the Tampa-2 what it is.

Kinda stating the obvious here, aren't ya Jene? After all, the game has evolved pretty heavily since then. Specifically, the five yard chuck rule. How about comparing Kiffin's scheme to Dungy's scheme in Minnesota? Show me a difference there please...

Not sure how I get a double good posting and this in the span of two posts, , Capella. But thanks. Of course the game has evolved, that's why the scheme is different. The major point of that sentence was to highlight (for IIWII) the fact that the Carson Cover-2 looks and the current "Tampa-2" Cover-2 schemes are different animals.Carson could use the Cover-2 because of the pressure his front four could generate. That hasn't changed -- it's obviously key to any Cover-2. What has changed is Dungy and Kiffin pioneering the change from bulkier DEs to smaller, quicker, edge-rushing players -- Chris Doleman, Simeon Rice. And using more of a shifted defensive tackle (undertackle/NT) technique to generate inside pressure -- Keith Millard, Warren Sapp. They also schemed to give the safeties help in the middle of the deep zone by finding MLBs who could cover -- Del Rio, Nickerson (not the greatest example). While Lambert could certainly cover players in the intermediate zone, he was never asked to turn and sprint ten yards into the deep zone on a regular basis.

Those were kind of my points, not that there's any difference between the Kiffin and Dungy schemes.

Thank you...that last sentence was the point of my postings. This is the reason why Kiffin does not deserve a co-billing on Tony Dungy's coaching tree. If Kiffin gets co-billing here, then as I said before, you had better call the networks the next time the Belichick-Mangini teacher versus pupil discussion is on, and be sure to correct them so it reads the Belichick-Crennel versus Mangini teacher versus pupil discussion. Or the Bill Belichick-Romeo Crennel coaching tree...

Edited to add: BTW, Very Nice breakdown of the scheme Jene

Well, maybe we're arguing the same things differently here. But I'm saying that Kiffin has just as much do with the Tampa-2 as Dungy, regardless of whether he's become a head coach or not. I think he deserves some credit in any discussion of the Dungy tree, that's all. In my mind, it really is the Dungy/Kiffin scheme. Dungy gets the bulk of the credit because he was the "DC" in Minnesota and the "HC" in Tampa, but Kiffin is every bit as responsible for the nuts and bolts of the scheme. Many would say more responsible.And no one has ever said that Romeo Crennel or Eric Mangini are co-architects of the Belichick hybrid scheme. That comparison is closer to a Dungy to Lovie Smith or Rod Marinelli comparison -- guys who have taken the concepts from the architect and added their own mild wrinkles. And before you bring Bud Carson back into the discussion, I think the Dungy/Kiffin modifications have been much more than just wrinkles.

If you're argument is that Kiffin doesn't belong in the discussion of "head coaching" trees because he's never been a head coach, well then I've wasted a lot energy -- that's Paris Hilton obvious. But if you're arguing that Kiffin shouldn't be in the discussion when discussing the success of Tony Dungy proteges, then I'm arguing that Kiffin is every bit as responsible for today's proliferation of the Tampa-2 and absolutely deserves mention, if not equal billing.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Is Lane Kiffin related to Monty Kiffin?

Monte Kiffin is Lane's father.

 

[Despyzer]

Dungy got his big break from Denny Green.That makes all these guys the newest fruits of the Bill Walsh coaching tree.

Which, therefore, makes them all part of the Don Coryell coaching tree.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

Most over used phrase of 2007 is already "coaching tree".

 

[Demons]

Is Lane Kiffin related to Monty Kiffin?

Monte Kiffin is Lane's father.

Thank you!It looks like Kiffin really does belong here, especially if the Raiders hire Lane Kiffin as head coach.It seems as if all of these coaches are only one or two degrees removed from each other. Gruden has a connection to Philly, Green Bay, Oakland and Tampa. Which tree does he belong to? The Al Davis tree? The Oak tree in my back yard?

 

[Punchie]

Is Lane Kiffin related to Monty Kiffin?

Monte Kiffin is Lane's father.

Thank you!It looks like Kiffin really does belong here, especially if the Raiders hire Lane Kiffin as head coach.It seems as if all of these coaches are only one or two degrees removed from each other. Gruden has a connection to Philly, Green Bay, Oakland and Tampa. Which tree does he belong to? The Al Davis tree? The Oak tree in my back yard? :X

Gruden's part of the Holmgren tree which is very impressive in it's own right (Reid/Gruden/Mariucci) and yes, I know Holmgren is a Walsh branch so again.... yada yada

 

[mcjc4]

Is there a coach in this league that DOESN'T have roots back to either Chuck Noll, Bill Parcells, or Bill Walsh?

Jack Del Rio played in the Walsh family playbooks at MN, but I do not know who gave him his coaching break.Jim Haslett?

 

[Punchie]

Dungy got his big break from Denny Green.That makes all these guys the newest fruits of the Bill Walsh coaching tree.

Which, therefore, makes them all part of the Don Coryell coaching tree.

first time I've ever heard Dungy related to Air Coryell, that's a good one

 

[Punchie]

Isn't this the name of a paper product company?

I really thought this was funny. Dunder-Mifflin? I'll try harder.

Sorry humor isn't allowed in pissing matches HTH

 

[Jene Bramel]

Well we appear to differ on opinions in several fronts here.

For example, Bill Parcells started the 3-4 with the Giants...then Bill Belichick took over and added to it...getting full credit for the hybrid as you mentioned. For Bill Belichick's additions, he was a sought after HC.

Romeo Crennel, while you appear to indicate didn't contribute much to Bill Belichick. I would argue that Romeo Crennel contributed equally as much as Monte Kiffin did to Tony Dungy. After all, Romeo Crennel was with the Giants on the D as well and has been on board with this from close to the beginning. Much like Monte Kiffin has, although with much less experience than Crennel within the scheme.

As for Lovie Smith to Tony Dungy....well I can say this, Rod Marinelli doesn't belong in this conversation on Lovie Smith's level. That is a very poor comparison imo.

For Lovie Smith took the scheme to a whole other level, with his emphasis on speed at every position. More importantly was Lovie Smith's eliminating of loafs. His defensive substitions also reflect his philosophy. Research Lovie Smith's defensive successes everywhere he has went. Watch Lovie's defensive line philosophy.

Lovie Smith is a defensive genius or innovator...

Monte Kiffin is more a follower of Dungy's scheme...in much the same way Romeo Crennel is to Bill Belichick. Sure every coach adds a wrinkle or two here and there. But Monte Kiffin deserves no more credit for Tony Dungy's hires and training of his scheme, than Romeo Crennel does for Bill Belichick's hires and training of his scheme.

Well, we'll agree to disagree. I think you're underrating Kiffin, overestimating Crennel to some extent, and underestimating the value Rod Marinelli had in Tampa. I agree with your points on Lovie Smith -- he has definitely made his aggressive version of the Tampa-2 scheme his own. It's certainly different than the original, although much of the foundation remains the same. The point there was that he wasn't responsible for the original versions of the schemes anymore than, IMO, Crennel was responsible for the modification Belichick made to the Parcells base 3-4. Despite a healthy respect for what he has done in St. Louis and Chicago, I think "innovative genius" is a little much with regard to Smith. I've no argument with your last point regarding hires either.I've no idea why Kiffin hasn't garnered more interest as a HC (personality is somewhat of an issue). Again, we'll agree to disagree -- he belongs in the discussion. Thanks for the debate.

 

[billymays]

Dungy got his big break from Denny Green.That makes all these guys the newest fruits of the Bill Walsh coaching tree.

and kevin bacon once was asked what the bald loaf of skin on the back of denny greens neck was.

 

[Punchie]

I've no idea why Kiffin hasn't garnered more interest as a HC (personality is somewhat of an issue). Again, we'll agree to disagree -- he belongs in the discussion. Thanks for the debate.

Monte has gotten interest as a HC, he just refuses to consider it. The Glazers made him the highest paid coordinator a couple of years back (has since been surpased by Gregg Williams and Capers) and that was good enough for him to stay. I think he loves being a coordinator and doesn't want to put up with being a HC. Not everyone aspires to be at the top of their profession, some people prefer less stress.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Dungy brought the Cover-2 scheme over, Kiffen made it the Tampa-2. The two-deep zone is an old scheme, but it was Kiffin who made it into what it is. The only D-Coordinator who has as much of a fingerprint on his team as Kiffin is Jim Johnson with the Eagles. If the Eagles start spewing out head coaches from the defensive assistant spots then I think we could call it the Reid/Johnson tree.

Fact is, all of these coaches from the Dungy/Kiffin tree are defensive, and Kiffin was responsible for the defense.

But really, Chuck Noll started it, so even though he had nothing to do with these coaches, or players, he gets all the credit here.

:whoosh:

Noll had nothing to do with Tony Dungy? Didnt Dungy play for him and wasnt he a DC of Noll's in the 80s?