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The best drama in television history (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Captain Cranks
- Start date
Gr00vus
Footballguy
It really goes downhill each season, and the implausibility/plot holes increase each season.
Rove!
Footballguy
I made it through the pilot mini-series for BSG, and never felt compelled to watch any more of it...
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
Probably better off. There were a few good episodes along the way, but overall the story became somewhat ridiculous (even for sci-fi).
Abrantes
Footballguy
I wouldn't say it was an absolute lack of planning, and if you felt they stuck the landing, awesome, but when I wrote that, I was thinking back to an interview with Ron Moore from when the show was just about to wrap up. There will inevitably be stuff that writers figure out as they go, and in many cases those are things that end up working beautifully, but I didn't find it encouraging when Moore says that one of the crucial plot twists in the series, with far-reaching ramifications, was something they came up with essentially on the fly in the writers' room to add some gravitas to a season finale.
Also from the link:
Q: One of the things I find interesting is, on "Lost," Cuse and Lindelof have always claimed they have a master plan and know where it's all going, and fandom has been skeptical at times and said, "Yeah, right." Whereas you've been pretty candid about the fact that you'll throw stuff out there and figure it out later, and yet people assume there's some cohesive plan to "Galactica." How do you pull that off to make it seem like there's a plan?
A (Moore): To me, that's the job. The job is to figure a way along in a story but make it all feel like it's seamless, to make it all make sense. Hopefully, if I've done my job right, when all is said and done and the story's been put to bed and you've got the entire set of DVDs before you and you watch them, that it feels like a cohesive narrative -- that stuff we just threw up and decided to take a flier on without ultimately knowing where it would pay off, when you look at in hindsight, that it all tracks. You're painting this large painting on this big canvas, and you may not know what it's going to look like at the end, but when you're done, you want it to feel like it's a cohesive vision and makes perfect sense.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
People not digging The Wire but loving these other shows, what don't you like about it?
I could see production value throwing people off a bit, but after a season I am amazed at how intricate and well written it is. Tons of moving pieces, you have to pay attention, they get you caring for drug dealers/drug addicts/a hole cops all in the same hour. Plus plenty of characters to hate - the boss in homicide, the smarmy lawyer for the bad guys, etc.
I could see production value throwing people off a bit, but after a season I am amazed at how intricate and well written it is. Tons of moving pieces, you have to pay attention, they get you caring for drug dealers/drug addicts/a hole cops all in the same hour. Plus plenty of characters to hate - the boss in homicide, the smarmy lawyer for the bad guys, etc.
The General
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I can tell this a show to rewatch. I know I am missing pieces and connections along the way.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
One of the great joys of tv viewing in my lifetime was listening to Moore’s director commentary in the subway after each BSG episode. He put it out as a podcast and talked a lot about the writers’ room and “how the sausage was made.” Great stuff.
The General
Footballguy
Oh yeah. I didn’t know what the hell was going on for like 6 hours. And just when I did Season 2 started.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
I watched 3 1/2 seasons of The Wire before quiting. I couldn't name more than 2 character names right now. Totally boring and annoying to watch. I didn't care about any of the characters at all.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
You need to sit down and focus. Finish season 3. You are missing out on greatness.. OK sure
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Sure, but it's either your shtick or you dont pay attention- aren't you the dude in the GoT thread that cant remember a name or anything that happened one episode before?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I found that I didn't give a damn about any of the characters, whether they were the "good guys" or "bad guys" (both quoted because there was a lot of gray area as far as who was good and who was bad). Plus, the pacing seemed completely random, where episodes would end and I would think, "That it?" I tried several times to get into the show and it just didn't resonate with me. It happens.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Cool. I am just surprised because it seems to have all the machinations that makes (well, made) GoT great - tons of characters, lots of moving parts. Imo has the writing and dialogue of Mad Men and Breaking Bad. Again, I am only through S1, I am just surprised that people would love the rest of the list, but not The Wire is all.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
You see these, McNulty? These are for you.
You know something, Jimmy? You're no good for people, man.
Bubbles is one of the best characters ever put onscreen.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I have quit every David Simon show, from Homicide to Treme, i've ever watched at some point. It's kinda like Spike Lee or Oliver Stone - eventually, even amidst great drama, there's an imposition of viewpoint, of "you must see it my way" that i can barely indulge to get thru a movie but becomes toxic in a series. I've been able to go back after a time and rescue whatever good might be left past my quit point, but it's never a rounded experience for me.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
The Wire, and nothing else is particularly close.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
It won't likely go in anyone's top 10, but if you want to watch a drama that "kills" the typical prototype of what a drama is and how it progresses w storyline and characters, you should all give Gomorra (on netflix) a shot.
Unfortunately for some of you, it's italian, thus subtitled... But it's the sopranos on coke. The storytelling and psychological angle not near the sopranos, but it's the mob as the mob really is.
Unfortunately for some of you, it's italian, thus subtitled... But it's the sopranos on coke. The storytelling and psychological angle not near the sopranos, but it's the mob as the mob really is.
timschochet
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I saw the movie, actually -- a while back. I'm not sure if the show is a Fargo-esque type of deal, but the movie was indeed a very good one, if not great. Pretty bleak, but not nihilistic. Lots of crack, IIRC.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
never seen the movie, so no idea how closely they relate.
This focuses almost solely on the internal dialogue/happening w top level mafiosi and mafia relations, and not so much what foot soldiers do day to day.
rockaction
Footballguy
Ah, okay. The movie showed the effects of the mafia on a town through the lives of two barely pubescent boys, IIRC.
In reading a Wiki article, there's likely a lot more inner workings of the mafia than I remember. I just remember the emphasis on the boys.
Herb
Footballguy
When they were airing originally, my favorite show was whichever happened to be in season, Mad Men or Breaking Bad. Back in those days, if you followed the MM thread, one of our posters (can't remember who, too lazy to look, but mad props to whomever it was) would link tv critic Andy Sepinwall's reviews the day after each ep aired. His reviews were almost supernaturally insightful and drastically increased my appreciation for the show. To the point that when my wife and I rewatched the series, I would search out the old reviews and read them to her after we finished episodes.
That show was cast, plotted, acted and written so masterfully.
I still prefer the Wire and BB, though.
It's been mentioned, but the Ozymandias ep of BB was the single best hour of tv I've ever witnessed. Absolute perfection. No show has ever used long periods of silence, well crafted shots and camera movements/angles for exposition as well as Breaking Bad. Tension and dread were practically characters on the show.
That show was cast, plotted, acted and written so masterfully.
I still prefer the Wire and BB, though.
It's been mentioned, but the Ozymandias ep of BB was the single best hour of tv I've ever witnessed. Absolute perfection. No show has ever used long periods of silence, well crafted shots and camera movements/angles for exposition as well as Breaking Bad. Tension and dread were practically characters on the show.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
When GoT came out out it was dubbed The Sopranos in Middle Earth but a much better comparison is The Wire in Middle Earth. Like the GoT world has continued to expand as seasons go on, so does The Wire. It becomes a show that’s not about cops and drug dealers but about the entire city of Baltimore.
Major
Footballguy
This happened to me before all the hype when it was just a show on HBO with positive reviews. I'd tried a few times but it didn't move me. Then Season 4 was on and I decided to sit down and watch it. Wow. Turns out this is probably one of the best seasons of any TV shows and it really sucked me in. I ended up watching The Wire in different order which some may consider blasphemy but it didnt hinder my enjoyment. Just watch Season 4 and get back to us.Ghost Rider said:
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I know it’s been mentioned but I’ll mention it again:
Lonesome Dove, & it’s sequel Streets of Laredo. Written by Larry McMurtry, incredible cast down the line, it’s a set in a certain place in time rarely focused on in recent years (Deadwood aside) and its a labor of love. The landscapes and filming are *beautiful, it’s actual elite cinematography on tv, which is rare.
This feels like one of those football discussions where RBs from the 50s & 60s can’t get their due.
I’ll give Gandolfini’s Tony Soprano as the single best character study. It’s also hard to remember a single character who embodies the best/worst of humanity. I’ll add that the Carlos Marcello family is/was a known thing around here, and the mafia don as suburbanite concept was very real, though I think Tony lived more ostentatiously than what I know of Marcello.
Lonesome Dove, & it’s sequel Streets of Laredo. Written by Larry McMurtry, incredible cast down the line, it’s a set in a certain place in time rarely focused on in recent years (Deadwood aside) and its a labor of love. The landscapes and filming are *beautiful, it’s actual elite cinematography on tv, which is rare.
This feels like one of those football discussions where RBs from the 50s & 60s can’t get their due.
I’ll give Gandolfini’s Tony Soprano as the single best character study. It’s also hard to remember a single character who embodies the best/worst of humanity. I’ll add that the Carlos Marcello family is/was a known thing around here, and the mafia don as suburbanite concept was very real, though I think Tony lived more ostentatiously than what I know of Marcello.
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grateful zed
Footballguy
star trek
tng
dsn
tng
dsn
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I would agree with this. What Galdolfini did with that character was unbelievable. There have been a lot of tremendous performances in modern day TV drama, but the performances of Gandolfini and Bryan Cranston are big reasons why, for me, The Sopranos and Breaking Bad sit at the top.
matttyl
Footballguy
And did you? What did you think?I did love my Downton Abby :fancyboy:
Will see the movie opening weekend
The General
Footballguy
Work has been killing me so not yet.
Ironically was in London that opening weekend doing work out in the countryside near Bath and the Cotswolds which all looked like it was straight out of the show. Had to travel the following weekend and am now on a vaca so I’ve missed it.
Reviews are all pretty solid so I’m looking forward to it.
matttyl
Footballguy
As am I. Working my way through an all 6 season rewatch, as it's been a few years. Didn't know if that was necessary to enjoy the movie or not, though.
The General
Footballguy
Nice. I doubt it’s required but it will probably help with some of the subtle stuff with the characters that have been forgotten.
Great show. The wife and I power watched it over the course of a couple months. Were legit bummed when we got to the last one.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
We're currently finishing up S03. I'm not real sure why we like it since they always gloss over seemingly dramatic issues as though they're tidied up in between episodes*, but it is enjoyable.
*An example, in S01 Bates is cast off as a gimp by the other employees and it seems like he's hitting the road before Lord Grantham suddenly pulls him out of the car to stay at Downton. I'm thinking, "sweet, I'm excited to see how the employees react to this decision." Nope. Next episode Bates is pretty much fully assimilated and there's no drama at all.
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The General
Footballguy
We thought the same thing as we watched it at times.
Also would get through an hour and think well not much happened there. But then we immediately start up the next one
Relaxing to watch and a handful of great characters. Really well acted.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Yeah...I think that's it. It's soothing. It would be a totally different vibe without the English accents. Professor McGonnagall, errrrrr, Maggie Smith is fantastic.We thought the same thing as we watched it at times.
Also would get through an hour and think well not much happened there. But then we immediately start up the next one
Relaxing to watch and a handful of great characters. Really well acted.
The General
Footballguy
I finally saw the movie.
It was solid. Pretty much like an episode of the show. You definitely don’t need to rewatch the series to enjoy.
supermike80
Footballguy
I'll toss in a few that were great in the first couple seasons but couldn't hold it through their entire run. Still, the first couple seasons were great.
Nip/Tuck
Rescue Me
Nip/Tuck
Rescue Me
matttyl
Footballguy
I finally watched as well 2-3 weeks ago. It was ok, but too "Disney" for me. "You get a castle! And you get a castle! And you get a castle!" Everyone had a happy ending.
What I didn't like was that with episodes, they had a solid hour to get a little story or stories, and also move along the bigger stories. With the movie, they had 2 hours to get everything in from soup to nuts. Scenes seemed very short. Wasn't a lot of development, but it was worth the watch.
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
And eventually you even begin to grudgingly respect the characters you hate like Rawls
Herb
Footballguy
Oh man. If that show could've held up the momentum from the first 2 or 3 seasons, it would be on my short list for GOAT.
Unfortunately, not only were the last few seasons not great, they downright sucked.
supermike80
Footballguy
Agreed 100%. Was awesome to start...then totally jumped the shark and fast. Great opening song too.
