The Birther Conspiracy Thread (2 Viewers)

[jon_mx]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and
...This is far worse than anything ever produced by such a high-profile organization on the right.

 

[The Commish]

World Net Daily appears to going with the twins story Stat posted from yesterday. Apparently there are twins born a day later with numbers earlier than Obama's- this "proves" Obama's certificate is a forgery.

A question for those that claim that there's a lunatic fringe on both sides of the aisle ... what is the left equiavelant to World Net Daily? And don't just say the Democratic Underground of some other website you think is fringe. I'm curious to see an example of when a left-wing site has ever had material half as stupid as the stuff they're running with today.

I really do think that the left and right and Dems and GOP are two sides of the same coin ... but I can't reconcile that with the hilarious nonsense the far right is running with at the moment. Help me out.

What I meant was don't just give me the website name. Tell me about an instance when they've been as divorced from reality as the right-wing nutjobs claiming forgery are today.

So you're asking what conspiracy theory from the left rivals that of this one from the right?

Yeah. Or just more generally, when they've been as transparently insane as the far right is today.

I seem to recall Dan rather promoting a forged document during the W era.I also recall certain left-wing sites comparing Bush to Hitler, or saying he was behind the 9/11 attacks, or that he went in to Iraq as a favor to his oil buddies or because Saddam tried to kill Daddy.

Both sides have their lunatic fringe.

I don't think we could name all the individuals who have come up with far fetched schemes. We all agree, there are lunatics everywhere. I think TB's question is more around the quantity of people around a specific conspiracy theory like this from the same "base" if you will. There was probably the same amount of folks in the "truther" conspiracy theory as this one, but it seemed to be spread among dems, libertarian (don't tread on me types) and back woods repubs with an advantage to the dems. Hitler is thrown out by all those groups and as such really isn't a distinguishing characteristic IMO. I also do remember the theories as to WHY we went into Iraq as well. We'll never know that, but I think it's safe to assume it was because Bush wanted to. What his motivations were for wanting to don't make any difference to me.

 

[timschochet]

TPM just caught up with Newt Gingrich after his address at the National Catholic Prayer Breakfast on Wednesday morning. We asked about the news of the moment, the release of President Obama's long-form birth certificate.

Gingrich was in the breakfast all morning, so he appeared to be hearing the news for the first time. He laughed when asked for his reaction and cautioned, "I haven't even looked at it yet."

But he did offer a quick take on the president's decision to take on the birther movement head on -- or, as Obama put it earlier, to put the issue to rest once and for all.

"All I would say is, why did it take so long?" Gingrich said. "The whole thing is strange."

 

[Jackstraw]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

Oh OK. I guess you can go ahead and spew all the racist tripe you want.

 

[The Commish]

TPM just caught up with Newt Gingrich after his address at the National Catholic Prayer Breakfast on Wednesday morning. We asked about the news of the moment, the release of President Obama's long-form birth certificate.

Gingrich was in the breakfast all morning, so he appeared to be hearing the news for the first time. He laughed when asked for his reaction and cautioned, "I haven't even looked at it yet."

But he did offer a quick take on the president's decision to take on the birther movement head on -- or, as Obama put it earlier, to put the issue to rest once and for all.

"All I would say is, why did it take so long?" Gingrich said. "The whole thing is strange."

If Newt doesn't get why Obama did what he did, he's not savvy enough politically to be our president

 

[jon_mx]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

WTF are you talking about? I illustrated a poster wrong and you pull the race card out. Pathetic piece of #### post.

 

[Jewell]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

MoveOn was also my pick. Here's three stories straight off their Facebook page...Talk about Republican creeps -- What (Republican) Creeps At A Bar Can Talk A Girl Into

Why are conservatives so afraid of women who have sex? --Conservatives Are As Opposed To Sex As They Are To Abortion

Go get 'em, Barack! -- Obama Caught On Tape Being Awesome

The true comedy, though, lies in the comments. Comedy gold!

 

[Fennis]

I've never seen a better example of the old saying "sometimes you just can't win".

bump

 

[mad sweeney]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

Ooh, almost getting that first spike in your palm jonnay. Can't wait til the crucifixion is in full go for poor, victimized Jon. He's going off the sum of your posts, nit necessarily that one. HTH (even though I know it won't)

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

Please don't get banned. We need you on that wall.

 

[The General]

Would it be too much to ask if someone could give a cliff notes version of where we are at in here?

 

[Fennis]

Would it be too much to ask if someone could give a cliff notes version of where we are at in here?

Obama is a Muslim.

 

[bueno]

http://www.nationalr...nathan-goulding

"I’ve confirmed that scanning an image, converting it to a PDF, optimizing that PDF, and then opening it up in Illustrator, does in fact create layers similar to what is seen in the birth certificate PDF. You can try it yourself at home."

So the process of scanning the document, converting it to a pdf and hitting the "optimize" button creates layers that look exactly like the layers in the Obama scan. It's layers of pixel data that make it easier for us to read the scanned document... Not like someone put on a layer containing a bunch of false info. Not to mention that no professional editor would ever send out a final image that contained the layers. You reformat the files into single layer images and send those to the client.

So another birther attempt based on bad data - thanks.

 

[bueno]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

Not to mention certain Democrat Chairman who said "I ahte all Republicans and what they stand for." When a lunatic is your chairman, what does that say about the whole party?

 

[Jewell]

I'm not sure if somebody brought this up yet, but did anybody happen to catch the name of the Hawaiian Registrar on Obama's birth certificate? This site is showing that the Local Registrar is none other than U K L Lee. Sounds Hawaiian.

The truth is that Mr. U K L Lee really was the registrar. That's just an awesome name for a Hawaiian.

 

[Slapdash]

Is there a BGP alias in here somehwere?

 

[Slapdash]

I seem to recall Dan rather promoting a forged document during the W era.I also recall certain left-wing sites comparing Bush to Hitler, or saying he was behind the 9/11 attacks, or that he went in to Iraq as a favor to his oil buddies or because Saddam tried to kill Daddy.Both sides have their lunatic fringe.

We did these, or at least some of them.The Rather story was bad journalism by one guy or one network on one story, not thousands of people acting like utter lunatics. it was more like the Hitler diary fraud than this.The 9/11 truthers are from both sides of the aisle, or neither side. It's not a left-wing movement. It's more a fringe "don't trust your government!!! Jesse Ventura type movement.I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign. They may have engaged in the same hyperbole you hear from lots of people who invoke Hitler for shock value (I see Obama posters with Hitler mustaches every day), but not as part of a serious analysis.The Iraq rationales were the same- simplified or hyperbolic explanations of rational, though probably incorrect, arguments.This feels different to me. Maybe it's just my political leanings, but I don't remember anything rising to this level of insanity from a large chunk of the political fringe.

Obviously, both of us define insanity relative to our own political positions.

I think we all do.

 

[matuski]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

Any progress on Hawaii's lax BC laws?

 

[jon_mx]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

Yeah, a few pages back. I was going to do more, but it is kind of pointless now.

 

[mad sweeney]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

You're kind of half right. It's still exactly as relevant as it was then.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Is there a BGP alias in here somehwere?

God I hope so.Where is that little bugger these days?

 

[bigbottom]

Is there a BGP alias in here somehwere?

God I hope so.Where is that little bugger these days?

He needs to make an appearance, if only to gloat about gas prices.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The worst thing about this whole non-issue? It's distracting us from real issues, like: Why hasn't Obama proven that he isn't the antichrist????

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

That being said, I'll repeat what I've written before: I believe that the root of this particular conspiracy has much to do with bigotry- not necessarily bigotry against Obama's skin color (though this is certainly part of it), but against his nationality and name.

Bigotry against Americans?

I've called Tim on this exact word choice before. Ethnicity, Tim, ethnicity.

Tim isn't the only one to make that mistake.

 

[snitwitch]

Just one question: can someone tell me which universities offer a Photoshop degree? And do they offer a doctorate program?

Just for my own edification, I'd be curious to know if that bc is really layered, and if so, what is that telling us? Any photoshop experts out there actually looked at this and can comment?It would seem to me that BO is just yanking the birther's chain by giving then more ammo if it is in layers.

Looks like someone is going to crack the top 5.

Honest question. I don't know #### about photoshop.

It's telling us that it's an optimized PDF and whatever software they used broke the document into distinct sections because some areas can be saved using less bits than others.

From NRODF Layers in Obama’s Birth CertificateApril 27, 2011 2:35 P.M.By Nathan Goulding We have received several e-mails today calling into question the validity of the PDF that the White House released, namely that there are embedded layers in the document. There are now several other people on the case. We looked into it and dismissed it.The PDF is composed of multiple images. That’s correct. Using a photo editor or PDF viewer of your choice, you can extract this image data, view it, hide it, etc. But these layers, as they’re being called, aren’t layers in the traditional photo-editing sense of the word. They are, quite literally, pieces of image data that have been positioned in a PDF container. They appear as text but also contain glyphs, dots, lines, boxes, squiggles, and random garbage. They’re not combined or merged in any way. Quite simply, they look like they were created programmatically, not by a human.What’s plausible is that somewhere along the way — from the scanning device to the PDF-creation software, both of which can perform OCR (optical character recognition) — these partial/pseudo-text images were created and saved. What’s not plausible is that the government spent all this time manufacturing Obama’s birth certificate only to commit the laughably rookie mistake of exporting the layers from Photoshop, or whatever photo editing software they are meant to have used. It’s likely that whoever scanned the birth certificate in Hawaii forgot to turn off the OCR setting on the scanner. Let’s leave it at that.UPDATE: I’ve confirmed that scanning an image, converting it to a PDF, optimizing that PDF, and then opening it up in Illustrator, does in fact create layers similar to what is seen in the birth certificate PDF. You can try it yourself at home.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

The worst thing about this whole non-issue? It's distracting us from real issues, like: Why hasn't Obama proven that he isn't the antichrist????

I bet he will drag it out just like the birther thing.

 

[bigbottom]

The worst thing about this whole non-issue? It's distracting us from real issues, like: Why hasn't Obama proven that he isn't the antichrist????

I bet he will drag it out just like the birther thing.

All he has to do is shave his head to show that he doesn't bear the mark of the beast. It's so simple. Why hasn't he done it yet? What is he hiding?

 

[TobiasFunke]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

I'm guessing you didn't read the first comment there, where it says that was produced by some random guy and submitted to MoveOn as part of a user contest, (i.e. not produced by MoveOn as you claim) and was quickly taken down by MoveOn? Are you saying that's untrue? Maybe it is, or maybe MoveOn really did air this repeatedly. I don't know. But see, when I don't know if something is true or not, I don't just assume the absolute worst. Given how silly you've looked in this thread, maybe that's a perspective you should consider adopting, too.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

There's a big difference between stupid partisan rhetoric and being completely divorced from reality. The fact that two of the smarter conservatives around these parts have to reach this far in attempting to find a left-wing parallel to the birthers is frankly pretty good evidence that there is no parallel.

 

[Jewell]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

I picked the most outlandish headlines for comedic effect, but they were nestled between "news" stories. Besides, it's not whether we think their pieces are worthy of being called news, it's whether those going to that site believe the stories are news and the stories are credible. The readers do. That's why I said to check the comments.Why's it so hard to accept that there's a liberal bat-#### crazy news site? I'm pretty sure it's where Alvin Greene was getting his talking points from.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

"DeMint started the recession."

Love that kid.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I picked the most outlandish headlines for comedic effect, but they were nestled between "news" stories. Besides, it's not whether we think their pieces are worthy of being called news, it's whether those going to that site believe the stories are news and the stories are credible. The readers do. That's why I said to check the comments.Why's it so hard to accept that there's a liberal bat-#### crazy news site? I'm pretty sure it's where Alvin Greene was getting his talking points from.

I'm sure there's liberal sites that are over the top. I was just asking about whether there was any instance in which they've been completely delusional in a way similar to the Birthers and their reaction to Obama's recent release; contemplating impossible conspiracy theories, refusing to accept the reality presented by documents backed with lots of evidence, something like that.It's not really worth arguing about much more. I was just asking for similar cases; it's not like I think every left-wing site is a bastion of reason and intelligence just because they've never proposed something as absurd as what the birthers have been proposing for the last couple days.

 

[Jackstraw]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

Also yesterday, Trump told a black reporter, unprompted, "Look I know you are a big Obama fan."Yep. No racism here. People just want the truth.

 

[Jackstraw]

In an episode early in Donald Trump's career, his New York real estate company was sued by the federal government for discriminating against potential black renters. After a lengthy legal battle, it ultimately agreed to wide-ranging steps to offer rentals to nonwhites.

The little-remembered case provides crucial context for the current discussion centering on Trump and race. The celebrity businessman made news last month when he declared, "I have a great relationship with the blacks. I've always had a great relationship with the blacks."

 

[Jewell]

I picked the most outlandish headlines for comedic effect, but they were nestled between "news" stories. Besides, it's not whether we think their pieces are worthy of being called news, it's whether those going to that site believe the stories are news and the stories are credible. The readers do. That's why I said to check the comments.Why's it so hard to accept that there's a liberal bat-#### crazy news site? I'm pretty sure it's where Alvin Greene was getting his talking points from.

I'm sure there's liberal sites that are over the top. I was just asking about whether there was any instance in which they've been completely delusional in a way similar to the Birthers and their reaction to Obama's recent release; contemplating impossible conspiracy theories, refusing to accept the reality presented by documents backed with lots of evidence, something like that.It's not really worth arguing about much more. I was just asking for similar cases; it's not like I think every left-wing site is a bastion of reason and intelligence just because they've never proposed something as absurd as what the birthers have been proposing for the last couple days.

I don't know of any story on MoveOn that had as much traction as Birtherism. MoveOn doesn't lock in on one story like that. Instead, they prefer to sprinkle their theme that Conservatives are evil throughout many stories. Seriously, comedy gold among the comments.

 

[Johnny Rock]

I know it's the FFA, but I'm still a little surprised this thread is on page one. Can we get a title change to, "Birther Conspiracy - DEAD!" and let this thread die?

 

[The Commish]

I know it's the FFA, but I'm still a little surprised this thread is on page one. Can we get a title change to, "Birther Conspiracy - DEAD!" and let this thread die?

It's not dead....just revised

 

[urbanhack]

I know it's the FFA, but I'm still a little surprised this thread is on page one. Can we get a title change to, "Birther Conspiracy - DEAD!" and let this thread die?

I say we switch the topic to why Trump wasn't in Vietnam.

 

[timschochet]

From SmokingGun.Com:

If the original document was in a bound volume (as reflected by the curvature of the left hand side of the certificate), how can the green patterned background of the document's safety paper be so seamless? • Why, if Obama was born on August 4, 1961, was the “Date Accepted by Local Reg.” four days later on August 8, 1961?

• What is the significance of the smudges in the box containing the name of the reported attendant?

• David A. Sinclair, the M.D. who purportedly signed the document, died nearly eight years ago at age 81. So he is conveniently unavailable to answer questions about Obama’s reported birth.

• In the “This Birth” box there are two mysterious Xs above “Twin” and “Triplet.” Is there a sibling or two unaccounted for?

• What is the significance of the mysterious numbers, seen vertically, on the document’s right side?

• Finally, the “Signature of Local Registrar” in box 21 may be a desperate attempt at establishing the document’s Hawaiian authenticity. Note to forgers: It is spelled “Ukulele.”

 

[Fennis]

Release the Longest Form! Put an end to this controversy!!

 

[timschochet]

• David A. Sinclair, the M.D. who purportedly signed the document, died nearly eight years ago at age 81. So he is conveniently unavailable to answer questions about Obama’s reported birth.

Has anyone investigated the circumstances regarding this death? Hmmm

 

[TinHat]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

The key reason he was pegged as an Obama supporter was probably more due to his occupation.



ETA: The modern-day term is "African-American."

I gladly welcome you to the 21st century.

 

[timschochet]

Alan Keyes weighs in:

On Wednesday this week, after refusing the simple request for several years; after expending several million dollars in lawyer's fees to battle anyone who dared pursue it; after vindictively engineering the court-martial and imprisonment of an honorable soldier who stood by his sworn oath to defend the Constitution of the United States; Barack Obama finally gave in and released what purports to be a copy of his full and complete birth certificate.

This constitutes incontrovertible proof that he, his media claque (including snopes.com, etc.) and the gullible or cowardly politicians (Democrat and Republican alike) who repeatedly claimed that he had already done so, were lying. The people they derided and ridiculed as "birthers" were telling the truth. The Certification of Live Birth published on the Internet, which these liars repeatedly referred to as his birth certificate, was an abridged certification that omitted the vital information needed to verify that he was born on U.S. soil, and could therefore claim, jus soli, to be a citizen at birth.

The Certificate of Live Birth released on Wednesday specifies the hospital where he was born and includes the signature of the attending physician. Assuming that it is not a convenient fabrication, it constitutes prima facie evidence as to the matter of fact involved in the eligibility controversy. The liars and dupes who asserted or accepted the Certification of Live Birth as his birth certificate will now contend that this ought to end the controversy. But since they were either lying or deceived up to now, it hardly matters what they contend. They ought properly to be accorded little or no credibility.

But until it has been submitted to forensic examination by unbiased and trustworthy experts, the same must be said of the document released Wednesday. Several years of now incontrovertibly proven deceit have generated a poisonous atmosphere of distrust. It cannot be dispelled except by careful steps, intended to reassure the many score millions of Americans who must now deeply resent the studied and deliberate campaign of deception and ridicule waged against them.

 

[TinHat]

I know it's the FFA, but I'm still a little surprised this thread is on page one. Can we get a title change to, "Birther Conspiracy - DEAD!" and let this thread die?

This one's going past 80 pages and my shoot to 100

 

[CBusAlex]

• What is the significance of the mysterious numbers, seen vertically, on the document’s right side?

Can you even imagine the ####storm that would ensue if that second number had been a 1? Ye gods.

 

[timschochet]

I think it really is beginning to die down now. While the crazies are still out there on the internet, I note that there is no one left around here willing to defend them anymore. All of the people on Pickles' list are eager to defend their own previous statements, but they all seem to concede the basic facts.

I may have to change the thread title after all.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

• David A. Sinclair, the M.D. who purportedly signed the document, died nearly eight years ago at age 81. So he is conveniently unavailable to answer questions about Obama’s reported birth.

Has anyone investigated the circumstances regarding this death? Hmmm

When it comes to getting rid of people fast, the Clintons got NOTHING on Obama.

 

[ElGatoLoco]

I seriously doubt any web sites actually compared Bush's actions as president to Hitler's reign.

Move0n.org, a very prominant Democratic organization which played a key role in Defending Clinton and has millions of dollars which it uses to promote Democrats, ran numerous Bush is Hitler ads on their website and

If you bothered to read the comments, it was a user submitted video for a MoveOn video contest. It was quickly removed by MoveOn from their web page apparently.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Waldorf: I can't beleive they are still going.

Statler: Yeah, stop the show!

Waldorf: Save us!

Statler: We could just leave.

Waldorf: We could.

Statler: We would miss the credits.

Waldrof: I like the credits.

Statler: So maybe we should stay.

Waldorf: Agreed. But I won't be happy about it.

 

[ElGatoLoco]

Waldorf: I can't beleive they are still going.Statler: Yeah, stop the show!Waldorf: Save us!Statler: We could just leave.Waldorf: We could.Statler: We would miss the credits.Waldrof: I like the credits.Statler: So maybe we should stay.Waldorf: Agreed. But I won't be happy about it.

Love those guys.