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The end of the Denver RB Mystery (1 Viewer)

SSOG

Moderator
Forgive me if this is a Honda, but I didn't see a thread about it on the first two pages, and I figured it'd be pretty big fantasy news if there was one.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_4322222

One back. Two Bells.

Broncos coach Mike Shanahan announced the order of his running back committee Monday. Tatum Bell has been promoted to 1a. Mike Bell is 1b.

Their playing time is virtually equal. Tatum Bell gets to start. Mike Bell gets the second series. Running backs coach Bobby Turner is charged with keeping the alternating Bells in order.

Tatum Bell started in the season- opening, 18-10 loss to the St. Louis Rams. He'll start again in the home opener Sunday against the Kansas City Chiefs.

"I feel like it's a long time coming," Tatum Bell said. "I feel like I've paid my dues. I've earned it. Coaches are trusting me now, so I have to keep doing the little things right to keep myself there."

By little things, Tatum Bell wasn't referring to his first-quarter fumble that led to the second of six Rams field goals by The Greatest Toe on Turf, Jeff Wilkins. Fumbles are big things. With the competition so close between Tatum and Mike Bell, Shanahan could have sat the first Bell and given more playing time to the second Bell.

Instead, Tatum Bell was sent out for his next scheduled series.

"Tatum has proven in practice he can carry the football," Shanahan said. "Normally, a guy who fumbles will fumble in practice. So when he makes a mistake like that, you don't pull him. You say, 'Hey, run with that ball secure."'

In so many words, anyway.

"I knew I was going to get an earful from him and (Turner)," Tatum Bell said. "I knew that was coming. It depends on how you handle it. I can either go in the tank, which I didn't do, or I can bounce back, which I did."

Tatum Bell wound up gaining 92 more yards in the final three quarters and finished with 103 on 15 carries. Mike Bell overcame his own first-quarter mistake. He suffered a displaced fracture of his right middle finger during a futile attempt to block Rams defensive end Leonard Little.

Despite the injury, Mike Bell finished with 58 yards, including a 1-yard touchdown plunge, on 10 carries.
Edit: My take-It looks like the "every other series" thing is going to be a very strict rule, at least for the time being. No mention of the "hot hand", although if one back is clearly outperforming the other, then I think the series rotation will get re-evaluated and they'll go from 1a/1b to 1/2.

The result? Tatum Bell should get slightly more carries per game than he got last year (but not a lot more). Mike Bell should get slightly fewer carries per game than Anderson got last year (but not a lot fewer). Both RBs will probably consistantly score in the RB13-24 range, making them both solid RB2 starts. This also means that there should be no third-party interference in the carry distribution (unlike last season when Dayne vultured 50 carries). The Denver RB pie should be split pretty much right down the middle, with whoever is in on the better drives getting more carries (because he's in on the better drives).

Also, this also means that people can stop worrying about who is the "goal line back", or "short yardage back". They're both goal line backs when it's their turn, and they're both short yardage backs when it's their turn.

I have to say, though, I'm curious how this is going to work, and I really don't believe that the carry breakdown is going to go like this for the rest of the season.

 
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Everyone knows that "1b" is just Shannyspeak for "2nd string." We just don't want to crush Mike's self esteem.

 
LOL same as last year. Glad I only have to deal with this in one league. You TBell owners keep on getting off he will always be limited while in Denver.

 
This clears up nothing IMO. Just flip-flops the two player's values. Tatum owners would feel a heck of lot better if he IS the starter.

still sounds like RBBC (in a KC Priest/LJ kinda way)

 
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I'd rather have a Denver running back on my roster who gets half the carries in a game, over many other RBs in the league, such as current teams like the Jets, Texans, Titans, etc.

 
I'd rather have a Denver running back on my roster who gets half the carries in a game, over many other RBs in the league, such as current teams like the Jets, Texans, Titans, etc.
Absolutely. I've been saying all along the rotation system is good news for owners of both Tatum and Mike Bell. It probably stinks a bit if you own both but if you only have one (and I'm a T.Bell owner) I have zero problems with this approach. It pretty much guarantees both will be no worse than RB3 options for the majority of the season barring injury or a collapse in play.
 
This clears up nothing IMO. Just flip-flops the two player's values. Tatum owners would feel a heck of lot better if he IS the starter. still sounds like RBBC (in a KC Priest/LJ kinda way)
Why do people keep saying this? Priest/LJ split for the first 8 games of last year. This RBBC in Denver has been going on for all of last year and any TBell owner expecting an LJ breakout late will be :cry: at the end of the year. Because even if MBell gets hurt or struggles Shanny will try Cobbs and will still split TBells carries.
 
I'd rather have a Denver running back on my roster who gets half the carries in a game, over many other RBs in the league, such as current teams like the Jets, Texans, Titans, etc.
Absolutely. I've been saying all along the rotation system is good news for owners of both Tatum and Mike Bell. It probably stinks a bit if you own both but if you only have one (and I'm a T.Bell owner) I have zero problems with this approach. It pretty much guarantees both will be no worse than RB3 options for the majority of the season barring injury or a collapse in play.
:goodposting: Yep. Either of the Bells is a solid RB3 play each week.
 
This clears up nothing IMO. Just flip-flops the two player's values. Tatum owners would feel a heck of lot better if he IS the starter. still sounds like RBBC (in a KC Priest/LJ kinda way)
Why do people keep saying this? Priest/LJ split for the first 8 games of last year. This RBBC in Denver has been going on for all of last year and any TBell owner expecting an LJ breakout late will be :cry: at the end of the year. Because even if MBell gets hurt or struggles Shanny will try Cobbs and will still split TBells carries.
Keep your pants on. I agree 100%. ;)
 
so Tatum is worth more than Tatum was worth last year, and Mike (Bell) is worth less than Mike (Anderson) was worth last year

 
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This clears up nothing IMO. Just flip-flops the two player's values. Tatum owners would feel a heck of lot better if he IS the starter. still sounds like RBBC (in a KC Priest/LJ kinda way)
Why do people keep saying this? Priest/LJ split for the first 8 games of last year. This RBBC in Denver has been going on for all of last year and any TBell owner expecting an LJ breakout late will be :cry: at the end of the year. Because even if MBell gets hurt or struggles Shanny will try Cobbs and will still split TBells carries.
Keep your pants on. I agree 100%. ;)
:D Ok as long as everyone is on the same page on this topic. J/K.
 
I'd rather have a Denver running back on my roster who gets half the carries in a game, over many other RBs in the league, such as current teams like the Jets, Texans, Titans, etc.
Absolutely. I've been saying all along the rotation system is good news for owners of both Tatum and Mike Bell. It probably stinks a bit if you own both but if you only have one (and I'm a T.Bell owner) I have zero problems with this approach. It pretty much guarantees both will be no worse than RB3 options for the majority of the season barring injury or a collapse in play.
:goodposting: Yep. Either of the Bells is a solid RB3 play each week.
:goodposting: Why do people come in these threads and get so mad at the Denver running game and tell those that drafted one of these guys that we're getting what we deserve? Why are people so opinionated about this situation? If you stayed away from the Denver running game and will never deal with "Shanny's head games" again, good for you. Why are you still posting in these threads, then? I'm fine with this situation. I drafted both guys.
 
Shanahan is a brilliant head football coach! Come December he will have two quality rb's that will have their confidence because both of them will get sufficient carries over the season. They both will have there legs because they wont have to shoulder the whole load.

This isn't necessarily great news for fantasy football but its good for the Denver Broncos, IMO.

 
Can anyone else imagine Shanahan dressing up like the Cat in the Hat (naked with a large top hat) running around calling Mike and Tatum "Thing 1" and "Thing 2"?

No? Ok, I just need to take my medication

 
Can anyone else imagine Shanahan dressing up like the Cat in the Hat (naked with a large top hat) running around calling Mike and Tatum "Thing 1" and "Thing 2"? No? Ok, I just need to take my medication
Awesome. Just Awesome . . . . . .. . . . except for the naked part :unsure:
 
This report is wrong. Two big time bronco fans on this site assured me that Ron Dayne will be the number 1 in Denver this year and that Shanny is never vague or deceptive when discussing RBs. :)

You know who you are.

 
I'd rather have a Denver running back on my roster who gets half the carries in a game, over many other RBs in the league, such as current teams like the Jets, Texans, Titans, etc.
Absolutely. I've been saying all along the rotation system is good news for owners of both Tatum and Mike Bell. It probably stinks a bit if you own both but if you only have one (and I'm a T.Bell owner) I have zero problems with this approach. It pretty much guarantees both will be no worse than RB3 options for the majority of the season barring injury or a collapse in play.
I own both and am satisfied with this. no reason to be upset here. I can flip a coin to pick the Bell for a weekly RB3. Should RB1 or RB2 get hurt, I have no problem playing both Bells. Should one Bell get hurt (dislodged finger, perhaps?) the other Bell's value skyrockets.
 
I'd rather have a Denver running back on my roster who gets half the carries in a game, over many other RBs in the league, such as current teams like the Jets, Texans, Titans, etc.
Absolutely. I've been saying all along the rotation system is good news for owners of both Tatum and Mike Bell. It probably stinks a bit if you own both but if you only have one (and I'm a T.Bell owner) I have zero problems with this approach. It pretty much guarantees both will be no worse than RB3 options for the majority of the season barring injury or a collapse in play.
I own both and am satisfied with this. no reason to be upset here. I can flip a coin to pick the Bell for a weekly RB3. Should RB1 or RB2 get hurt, I have no problem playing both Bells. Should one Bell get hurt (dislodged finger, perhaps?) the other Bell's value skyrockets.
I was one of those "avoid denver RB's at all cost" but when Tatum was still there and I had Brown, Westy, Fred Taylor in a start 2 league I couldn't pass him up. After watching Fragile run on Sunday I am hoping for a big game from Tater so I can trade him off for a WR.This announcement pleases me just fine.
 
LOL same as last year. Glad I only have to deal with this in one league. You TBell owners keep on getting off he will always be limited while in Denver.
NOT the same as last year. Last year, no RBs had designated series. Mike Anderson might get 4 carries, then TBell would get 2, and then Anderson would get 6, and then TBell would get 4, etc. This season, the roles are very clearly and explicitly defined. The carry distribution might be similar, but how those carries break down will be drastically different (i.e. whoever is in when the offense is moving is going to get the goal-line carries, rather than Mike Anderson getting the goal line carries most of the time regardless of who started the drive). The only thing I'm curious about is what if one RB gets winded after a very long run and takes himself out? Does the other RB spell him for a play, or does the winded RB keep running, or does Cobbs come in? Other than that, the breakdown is pretty cut-and-dried.
I'd rather have a Denver running back on my roster who gets half the carries in a game, over many other RBs in the league, such as current teams like the Jets, Texans, Titans, etc.
Absolutely. I've been saying all along the rotation system is good news for owners of both Tatum and Mike Bell. It probably stinks a bit if you own both but if you only have one (and I'm a T.Bell owner) I have zero problems with this approach. It pretty much guarantees both will be no worse than RB3 options for the majority of the season barring injury or a collapse in play.
:goodposting: Yep. Either of the Bells is a solid RB3 play each week.
RB3? Last season the two Denver RBs finished as RB10 and RB22. With a more even split, I'd expect those two values to converge and meet somewhere in the middle- say RB15 and RB16. We aren't talking about a pair of RB3s here... as big as Denver's pie is, we're talking about a pair of RB2s!
whither cobbs??? :confused: :(
Cedric Cobbs was not on the 45-man active roster Sunday.
just have to resort to rooting for injury...
:thumbdown: This is all great, but inquiring minds want to know...How does this now effect Temco?Anyone starting BOTH of da Bells on a weekly basis? (in a start 2 - NOT 3rb or flex options)???
If I didn't have a legitimate top-12 back in one league or another, I would have no compunction against starting both Bells. Like I said, I expect them both to produce in the RB2 range.Let's put it this way. Here is Denver's rushing production from every game last year.52/0 (against the 3-4), 96/1 (against the 3-4), 156/1, 178/0, 161/2, 172/2, 180/1, 233/3, 109/1, 168/3, 129/1, 109/1, 94/0 (against the 3-4), 146/2, 139/1, 116/3 (against the 3-4). That's just the runs by the RBs (not counting QB scrambles and WR runs, or any receiving numbers put up by the RBs). If I started two #2 RBs, I'd be very happy with those totals on a week-by-week basis (about 80 yards and .5 TDs each), as long as I didn't start the Denver Duo against a 3-4 defense.
 
Anyone starting BOTH of da Bells on a weekly basis? (in a start 2 - NOT 3rb or flex options)???
I am certainly thinking about it!This week I unfortunately started 2 Jones (T and K) instead of 2 Bells, and that was the difference between winning and losing my game.
 
Anyone starting BOTH of da Bells on a weekly basis? (in a start 2 - NOT 3rb or flex options)???
I am certainly thinking about it!This week I unfortunately started 2 Jones (T and K) instead of 2 Bells, and that was the difference between winning and losing my game.
Same here. I had a strong feeling that I would be better off starting both Bells instead of KJ and Foster, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. In the future I won't have that reluctance.
 
Let's put it this way. Here is Denver's rushing production from every game last year.52/0 (against the 3-4), 96/1 (against the 3-4), 156/1, 178/0, 161/2, 172/2, 180/1, 233/3, 109/1, 168/3, 129/1, 109/1, 94/0 (against the 3-4), 146/2, 139/1, 116/3 (against the 3-4). That's just the runs by the RBs (not counting QB scrambles and WR runs, or any receiving numbers put up by the RBs). If I started two #2 RBs, I'd be very happy with those totals on a week-by-week basis (about 80 yards and .5 TDs each), as long as I didn't start the Denver Duo against a 3-4 defense.
This is good stuff!I don't follow Defenses very much. What teams playing Denver this year run the 3-4 Defense?
 
Forgive me if this is a Honda, but I didn't see a thread about it on the first two pages, and I figured it'd be pretty big fantasy news if there was one.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_4322222

One back. Two Bells.

Broncos coach Mike Shanahan announced the order of his running back committee Monday. Tatum Bell has been promoted to 1a. Mike Bell is 1b.

Their playing time is virtually equal. Tatum Bell gets to start. Mike Bell gets the second series. Running backs coach Bobby Turner is charged with keeping the alternating Bells in order.

Tatum Bell started in the season- opening, 18-10 loss to the St. Louis Rams. He'll start again in the home opener Sunday against the Kansas City Chiefs.

"I feel like it's a long time coming," Tatum Bell said. "I feel like I've paid my dues. I've earned it. Coaches are trusting me now, so I have to keep doing the little things right to keep myself there."

By little things, Tatum Bell wasn't referring to his first-quarter fumble that led to the second of six Rams field goals by The Greatest Toe on Turf, Jeff Wilkins. Fumbles are big things. With the competition so close between Tatum and Mike Bell, Shanahan could have sat the first Bell and given more playing time to the second Bell.

Instead, Tatum Bell was sent out for his next scheduled series.

"Tatum has proven in practice he can carry the football," Shanahan said. "Normally, a guy who fumbles will fumble in practice. So when he makes a mistake like that, you don't pull him. You say, 'Hey, run with that ball secure."'

In so many words, anyway.

"I knew I was going to get an earful from him and (Turner)," Tatum Bell said. "I knew that was coming. It depends on how you handle it. I can either go in the tank, which I didn't do, or I can bounce back, which I did."

Tatum Bell wound up gaining 92 more yards in the final three quarters and finished with 103 on 15 carries. Mike Bell overcame his own first-quarter mistake. He suffered a displaced fracture of his right middle finger during a futile attempt to block Rams defensive end Leonard Little.

Despite the injury, Mike Bell finished with 58 yards, including a 1-yard touchdown plunge, on 10 carries.
Edit: My take-It looks like the "every other series" thing is going to be a very strict rule, at least for the time being. No mention of the "hot hand", although if one back is clearly outperforming the other, then I think the series rotation will get re-evaluated and they'll go from 1a/1b to 1/2.

The result? Tatum Bell should get slightly more carries per game than he got last year (but not a lot more). Mike Bell should get slightly fewer carries per game than Anderson got last year (but not a lot fewer). Both RBs will probably consistantly score in the RB13-24 range, making them both solid RB2 starts. This also means that there should be no third-party interference in the carry distribution (unlike last season when Dayne vultured 50 carries). The Denver RB pie should be split pretty much right down the middle, with whoever is in on the better drives getting more carries (because he's in on the better drives).

Also, this also means that people can stop worrying about who is the "goal line back", or "short yardage back". They're both goal line backs when it's their turn, and they're both short yardage backs when it's their turn.

I have to say, though, I'm curious how this is going to work, and I really don't believe that the carry breakdown is going to go like this for the rest of the season.
I appreciate your optimism for Tatum BUT have you offically announced your "Ron Dayne Bus" has crashed yet? :bye:

 
I appreciate your optimism for Tatum BUT have you offically announced your "Ron Dayne Bus" has crashed yet? :bye:
Last year it was the "There is no such thing as RBBC in Denver." bus.SSOG has some great commentary, but comes to interesting conclusions.
 
Let's put it this way. Here is Denver's rushing production from every game last year.52/0 (against the 3-4), 96/1 (against the 3-4), 156/1, 178/0, 161/2, 172/2, 180/1, 233/3, 109/1, 168/3, 129/1, 109/1, 94/0 (against the 3-4), 146/2, 139/1, 116/3 (against the 3-4). That's just the runs by the RBs (not counting QB scrambles and WR runs, or any receiving numbers put up by the RBs). If I started two #2 RBs, I'd be very happy with those totals on a week-by-week basis (about 80 yards and .5 TDs each), as long as I didn't start the Denver Duo against a 3-4 defense.
This is good stuff!I don't follow Defenses very much. What teams playing Denver this year run the 3-4 Defense?
I bet the guys in the IDP forum would be helpful here.ETA - i'm pretty sure SD is 3-4
 
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Running back Mike Bell fractured the tip of his right middle finger and the bone broke through the skin, :X but he stayed in Sunday's game and shouldn't miss any time with the injury.

"It looked like it went back in place," Shanahan said. "He should be able to go."

—Shanahan said he would continue to use Tatum Bell and Mike Bell as he did in the first game. Tatum Bell will start, Mike Bell will rotate series with him and Shanahan could stick with one of them over the course of a game if either gets hot.

"I've still got to go out and compete every day," Tatum Bell said. "But instead of going two, I'm going one."

RB Mike Bell said he felt comfortable rotating series with Tatum Bell. He said it allows him to watch starter Tatum Bell and get a feel for the flow of the game from the bench.

RUSHING OFFENSE: B-minus — Denver had 161 yards rushing with the tandem of Tatum Bell and Mike Bell sharing carries. That was the impressive part. Not as impressive was Tatum Bell's first quarter fumble and Mike Bell's inability to block Leonard Little — which led to a fumble by Plummer. The committee worked in Week 1 and the Broncos are likely to continue to share the load.

 
FWIW, here's Sportsline's take on the situation...

Tatum to start Week 2 for Broncos Tatum Bell, RB DENNews: The running back plan has been spelled out: Tatum Bell will start, Mike Bell rotates in and whoever has the hot hand will receive the bulk of the carries. That's how Mike Shanahan is going to treat Sunday's game against Kansas City. "I hope it's me that gets hot," Tatum Bell said. "I could go two series and Mike go one series, as long as I get that extra series. I feel like I've paid my dues and earned [the right] to be the man." Tatum Bell started Sunday against the Rams and had 15 carries for 103 yards. However, he turned the football over in the first quarter.Analysis: Tatum Bell should be considered a No. 2 Fantasy RB for Week 2. Mike Bell, recovering from a broken finger, will see plenty of action vs. the Chiefs, but should be considered a No. 3 RB at this point.
 
Sleeper 43 said:
I appreciate your optimism for Tatum BUT have you offically announced your "Ron Dayne Bus" has crashed yet? :bye:
I jumped off the Dayne wagon as soon as Mike Bell was named the starter. I advocated holding him for a while in case he earned the #3 role, and then when it became clear that the turf toe was going to cost him a shot to even compete for that, I said he'd probably wind up in Houston and advised people to keep him or cut bait depending on their own personal feelings about the Houston situation. Old news, my friend. :)
j3r3m3y said:
Sleeper 43 said:
I appreciate your optimism for Tatum BUT have you offically announced your "Ron Dayne Bus" has crashed yet? :bye:
Last year it was the "There is no such thing as RBBC in Denver." bus.SSOG has some great commentary, but comes to interesting conclusions.
I still hold to that line. Pro-rate Mike Anderson's carries and he would have been 12th in the NFL in terms of toting the rock. While the situation last year might have LOOKED a lot like an RBBC, Mike Anderson got more carries per game than a lot of "featured backs" (LaMont Jordan, Jamal Lewis, Steven Jackson, Corey Dillon). Denver runs so often that even if one back got 20 carries a game, there'd be a second back getting 10-12 carries a game. People might call that an RBBC, too, despite the presence of one of the mythical "20 carry a game" backs in the backfield.This season is definitely a full-blown RBBC, though. This carry breakdown is really nice, actually, because it clearly illustrates where the value is going to lie from week to week, but I suspect that this is Shanahan's method of giving both Bells an in-game audition in hopes that one of them will separate himself from the other. I don't expect the carry breakdown in week 12 to at all resemble the carry breakdown in week 2.

Also, you might also notice that I ran the "Shanahan doesn't start rookies if he has any other choice" line this summer, although I was seriously starting to question that one, too. Sometimes I need to stick to my gut more.

phillzphan said:
Glatty said:
Gambler said:
If M. Bell fumbles with 10 good fingers, will Shanny trust him with 9?
It was Tatum that fumbled.
True. The most interesting thing about this is that even while Tatum fumbled he was put right back into the game and is starting this week. IMO, this speaks volumes about has Shanny's view of Tatum has changed. A year or 2 ago this would have never happened.
That doesn't speak volumes about anything. Shanahan has always had a very long leash, and has understood that mistakes happen. It took several consecutive HORRIBLE games by Griffin (including game-losing fumbles) in order for Shanny to give him the hook. Mike Anderson had a fumble on the goal line in week 2 against San Diego, and his job wasn't hurt, either. Mike Bell fumbled in the preseason and wasn't adversely affected by it. Shanahan's bound and determined to evaluate his backs in live-game action, and he can't very well do that if he keeps going knee-jerk and yanking one of them after every mistake. If one back shows a pension for mistakes, that's an entirely different matter.
 

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