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The fall of Disney. Self destruction of a sterling brand. (3 Viewers)

As a white cisgender male in America I empathize with other white cisgender males in America and i understand that it's difficult watching the world change around me. 

People used to assume that you were straight and easily identifiable by your clothes or hair and it was ok to call someone a ###### if they didn't act like you thought they should but now you have to - and by have to, I mean that people are daring to ask you to - change your language so someone who is living a more difficult life than you feels a little more accepted. 

I totally get it.  That's VIRTUE SIGNALING! 

WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL BETTER IF IT MAKES ME EVEN A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE?   

It's really important to remember that the world revolves around you and what you think is normal.  If anyone speaks out in favor of their family or friends or strangers, it doesn't matter. Just accuse them of "virtue signaling" and you can get people to click like on your post instead of thinking about how your actions might actually impact people who are vulnerable and dealing with complicated life issues that you probably didn't.  

There is a valid discussion to be had with people who ask where it ends.  Are all men's and women's rooms or gym locker rooms or other things in need of review?  That's a real and genuine discussion.   

Then there's the knee jerk crybaby virtue signal whiners demanding that the world work the way they've always wanted, in their favor.  When you get upset that everyone isn't bending over backwards for you acting like you're the master race, what message do you think you're sending?   Are you really the aggrieved party here? 

 
I recently had a server keep referring to the people in my party as "friend" and it was seriously grating.  I can't imagine many instances where it's not better to just leave off "sir", "madam", etc. rather than replacing it with something like "friend."

"Let me get that for you, friend."

"What would you like, friend?"

"Good evening, friends."

* I have no idea if she used the term in order to avoid gender-specific terms like Disney intends or if she just liked it. And it's not about the rationale (I didn't even think about the possible rationale until reading this Disney stuff later). I just know that it sounded forced and insincere and therefore annoyed me.

** My use of "she" is based on my own assumption, as she didn't I wasn't told a preferred pronoun.

 
I want to take you seriously for whining about this but your entire argument seems to be "don't they know I'm a white cisgender male?  I deserve preferential treatment".  

Convince me that you're actually aggrieved in some way and I'll be genuinely sympathetic.  

 
bostonfred said:
As a white cisgender male in America I empathize with other white cisgender males in America and i understand that it's difficult watching the world change around me. 

People used to assume that you were straight and easily identifiable by your clothes or hair and it was ok to call someone a ###### if they didn't act like you thought they should but now you have to - and by have to, I mean that people are daring to ask you to - change your language so someone who is living a more difficult life than you feels a little more accepted. 

I totally get it.  That's VIRTUE SIGNALING! 

WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL BETTER IF IT MAKES ME EVEN A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE?   

It's really important to remember that the world revolves around you and what you think is normal.  If anyone speaks out in favor of their family or friends or strangers, it doesn't matter. Just accuse them of "virtue signaling" and you can get people to click like on your post instead of thinking about how your actions might actually impact people who are vulnerable and dealing with complicated life issues that you probably didn't.  

There is a valid discussion to be had with people who ask where it ends.  Are all men's and women's rooms or gym locker rooms or other things in need of review?  That's a real and genuine discussion.   

Then there's the knee jerk crybaby virtue signal whiners demanding that the world work the way they've always wanted, in their favor.  When you get upset that everyone isn't bending over backwards for you acting like you're the master race, what message do you think you're sending?   Are you really the aggrieved party here? 
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you totally get it?    If Tommygunz agrees with you.   no you don't get it.     

stay angry.

 
bostonfred said:
I want to take you seriously for whining about this but your entire argument seems to be "don't they know I'm a white cisgender male?  I deserve preferential treatment".  

Convince me that you're actually aggrieved in some way and I'll be genuinely sympathetic.  
Click to expand...


you're not going to like this answer....but I'm not looking for your sympathy. 

"your entire argument seems to be "don't they know I'm a white cisgender male?  I deserve preferential treatment".  "

No, I don't expect any preferential treatment, I expect to be acknowledged to as what I have been for my whole life. I identify as a male, may wife identifies as a female, we are different people and do not expect to be lumped into one generic, personalityless mass. 

"well you're an old fart, the world is changing and you don't want to change with it"
You're right. But I don't have to either. I have every right to hold onto my ideals just as much as someone wants to identify as a male today and then a female tomorrow. But please, let me scrap my consistent identity for the made up one you want to be on any given day. 

You call it "whining" to make me and my disagreement with the situation seem less of proper person then you. Thats cool, whatever makes you feel better. 

I'm not being persecuted, or oppressed or poor white cis male, or any other hyperbole terms you want to throw at me. But you dont know #### about me. I'm nothing but a couple of paragraphs on message board. I dont expect the world to rotate around me, but I do have the right to question why certain groups can demand change while others can't. 

Maybe next time I visit I'll identify as a cat that doesn't utilize currency and hence just walk past the turnstyle without paying the admission price. Disney would be cool with that, right? 

 
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bostonfred said:
WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL BETTER IF IT MAKES ME EVEN A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE?   
Click to expand...


I dont feel uncomfortable at all. Its not about comfort, I think calling everyone "Friend" is stupid and setting a very bad precedent. Again, it rewrites established definitions as a band-aide. Sledge hammer solutions for fly swatter problems. 

friend /frend/ noun

1.a person whom one knows and with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, typically exclusive of sexual or family relations.
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None of this represents the relationship we have with someone we are dealing with, as neither of us has had any interaction with in the past.  Don't words have meaning? 

####, at least in the wild west/cowboy days and vernacular, if they encountered someone they didnt know, they at least referred to them as "stranger" 

Back on toipic:
Some think this is advancement, but its not. We as a society are slipping backwards, consolidating. We are moving toward a homogeneous society were there will eventually be no distinction between male and female. Now some of you are ok with that, I am not. 

Its not only gender or sexuality, it is happening throughout other aspects of society. Comedy is being boycotted, school curriculums are being violently fought over, generations old books are being scrutinized and labeled as whatever dastardly label someone chooses while contemporary books displaying sex acts are freely available. All we hear is cultural appropriation this, and you're oppressing me over that. The smallest, inflexible voices are driving the most demand for change. 
 

and all that is happening is little by little they remove our identities in the name of inclusion and making The issue go away

It wont be long before we are all reading the same approved material, watching the same sanitized entertainment, wearing identical non-offensive solid colored outfits. 

But humans as a whole we built on diversity. Races, genders, cultures, ideas, emotions, all of these differences that you claim you want to celebrate, you are actually destroying little by little each time something like this happens.  And the more small groups push us into a corner of anonymity, eventually the mass will push back.   

You call me "whiny" and "self-centered" but the overall problem with all of this "language changing" is that the ones driving it are the inflexible ones. I'm sorry if I cant tell your gender b/c you are wearing a rainbow bright outfit but have a full lumberjack beard. You chose to blur the lines of what was pretty cut and dry. But yet if I "mis-gender you" then suddenly I'm the "homo/trans/bi/Q-phobic ####### and I need to educate myself before I ever think of opening my mouth again, you little piece of cis-####."

If I accidentally said "Merry Chistmas" to a jewish person, and they respond "Sorry, I'm jewish." I can at least say "My bad, have a happy Hanukkah" And that's an easier mistake to make b/c its generally a Caucasian dude addressing another Caucasian dude. Never would they come at me calling me "A ####### anti-semite, Nazi loving piece of garbage" for making that mistake. 

I get it, there are indeed people with true gender issues that are separate and apart from this conversation. But you also have a ton of bad actors out there ####### it up for your cause. And as its been discussed in other threads, the meteoric rise of those identifying as LGTBQ+ is pushing your genuine plight into "trendy territory" which makes it even harder for this old fart to get behind wholesale language change.  

 

 
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glvsav37 said:
I dont feel uncomfortable at all. Its not about comfort, I think calling everyone "Friend" is stupid and setting a very bad precedent. Again, it rewrites established definitions as a band-aide. Sledge hammer solutions for fly swatter problems

None of this represents the relationship we have with someone we are dealing with, as neither of us has had any interaction with in the past.  Don't words have meaning? 

####, at least in the wild west/cowboy days and vernacular, if they encountered someone they didnt know, they at least referred to them as "stranger" 
Click to expand...
Children fly hundreds or thousands of miles to a place called the Magic Kingdom and when they see the giant talking mouse they run over to hug it and take pictures.  The last thing we want the teenager in the mouse costume to do is call them friend.  Howdy, stranger.  Hello, human female.  That's much more appropriate.

 
bostonfred said:
As a white cisgender male in America I empathize with other white cisgender males in America and i understand that it's difficult watching the world change around me. 

People used to assume that you were straight and easily identifiable by your clothes or hair and it was ok to call someone a ###### if they didn't act like you thought they should but now you have to - and by have to, I mean that people are daring to ask you to - change your language so someone who is living a more difficult life than you feels a little more accepted. 
Click to expand...
A guy shows up to mention that he likes it better when people just acknowledge men and women, and you respond by essentially telling him that he just wants to call people ######s.  

That's where we are in 2022.

 
Are disneys numbers down?  It seems like they are a brand that keeps reinventing themselves.  I can’t remember the last movie of theirs I’ve watched (not a movie guy).

 
glvsav37 said:
If I accidentally said "Merry Chistmas" to a jewish person, and they respond "Sorry, I'm jewish." I can at least say "My bad, have a happy Hanukkah" And that's an easier mistake to make b/c its generally a Caucasian dude addressing another Caucasian dude. Never would they come at me calling me "A ####### anti-semite, Nazi loving piece of garbage" for making that mistake.
Click to expand...
Right.  I think we can agree that honest mistakes are fine.  

That's actually a pretty good analogy for this whole topic. 

If someone wore a pin that said "Happy Hanukkah", you'd probably be good with saying happy Hanukkah to them, too. Because it's not really a big request and it apparently matters to them. 

And after seeing people start to do that, maybe a Christian gets a pin that says "merry Christmas".  It's not like people were saying happy Hanukkah to you, but it makes it easier for people to chat and get along and not fight.  Nobody's forcing you to wear a pin, but when they see mine they say merry Christmas with no awkwardness. 

That's all this pronoun stuff is.  Nobody's forcing you to share your pronouns.  If someone else does, it's not a huge request.  And if someone you think is obviously a man says my pronouns are he/him, maybe they're just trying to be supportive so it isn't just the people (to use your words) "wearing a rainbow bright outfit but have a full lumberjack beard" who need to give their pronouns.  That's a nice thing to do, just like saying hey it's cool to wish me merry Christmas. 

I don't understand why anyone would be up in arms about this stuff.  

 
FairWarning said:
Are disneys numbers down?  It seems like they are a brand that keeps reinventing themselves.  I can’t remember the last movie of theirs I’ve watched (not a movie guy).
Click to expand...


Well they own Marvel. So every comic book television show and movie being put out is their property. Those movies are still killing it in the theater every time they come out. 

 
FairWarning said:
Are disneys numbers down?  It seems like they are a brand that keeps reinventing themselves.  I can’t remember the last movie of theirs I’ve watched (not a movie guy).
Click to expand...
No...not even close....four days last week, they were completely sold out.  THAT is the reason not to go anywhere near the parks.  I've lost considerable interest in going to Disney since just before COVID hit, but none of that has to do with these social aspects.

 
The Commish said:
No...not even close....four days last week, they were completely sold out.  THAT is the reason not to go anywhere near the parks.  I've lost considerable interest in going to Disney since just before COVID hit, but none of that has to do with these social aspects.
Click to expand...
I went to Disneyland in 1980, think it was somewhere around $10.  Couldn’t imagine what a family would have to pay today.  They have you by the shorthairs now.  I rarely watch espn because of the woke stuff, but that’s been a long time now. It’s their company, they can do what they want.  We  knew the showdown vs DeSantis would be a big ado about nothing in the long run.

 
jhib said:
I recently had a server keep referring to the people in my party as "friend" and it was seriously grating.  I can't imagine many instances where it's not better to just leave off "sir", "madam", etc. rather than replacing it with something like "friend."

"Let me get that for you, friend."

"What would you like, friend?"

"Good evening, friends."

* I have no idea if she used the term in order to avoid gender-specific terms like Disney intends or if she just liked it. And it's not about the rationale (I didn't even think about the possible rationale until reading this Disney stuff later). I just know that it sounded forced and insincere and therefore annoyed me.

** My use of "she" is based on my own assumption, as she didn't I wasn't told a preferred pronoun.
Click to expand...
I can imagine it's like hearing "my pleasure" at Chick-fil-A. You know it's programmed so it loses all authenticity.

 
msudaisy26 said:
FairWarning said:
Are disneys numbers down?  It seems like they are a brand that keeps reinventing themselves.  I can’t remember the last movie of theirs I’ve watched (not a movie guy).
Click to expand...


Well they own Marvel. So every comic book television show and movie being put out is their property. Those movies are still killing it in the theater every time they come out. 
Click to expand...
And just added the Deadpool movies to Disney + and I think Logan...the first R rated movies added to the platform.

 
Captain Cranks said:
I can imagine it's like hearing "my pleasure" at Chick-fil-A. You know it's programmed so it loses all authenticity.
Click to expand...


Yeah, similar.  But at least there you hear it maybe once when you give the order and once when they hand you your food.  Here it was over and over during the course of a sit-down dinner.

And their "my pleasure" is usually in response to a thank you, and it's at least an established response that you might hear in other situations (though obviously not as consistently).  "Friend" being used as an address over and over was much more grating to me.  I'm not sure I've ever been addressed as "friend" like that in my life. 

 
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To be clear, I don't really care how Disney does their thing with words.  It's literally all a big show at the parks anyway, and they can tweak the script for their cast as much as they want.  Loved going to DW a few times with the wife and kids over the years. There were definitely times where interactions with staff felt especially fake and forced anyway, but it never really bothered me.

Just hoping that this one thing doesn't catch on more in my corner of the world.  Or at least that it happens slowly enough for it not to be so jarring/annoying.  :)

 
glvsav37 said:
In the idea of inclusiveness, cast members will now refer to every guest as "Friend" 

Now, I dont have an issue with inclusion. What I do have a problem with is blanket changes like this. IMO "Friend" sounds condescending and fake given the situation. You are not my friend, you are the person pushing the button to make the ride move, or the person handling my resort reservation issue.  

I get that some prefer to be gender fluid. But my gender, as well as every member of my family is exceptionally clear. While some choose to be called "gender neutral" terms in addressing them, I do not. I prefer Sir, it is an acknowledgment of respect that the company you work for appreciates my business.  

When dealing with CM's I am always respectful and kind, I was a CM myself at one time. However I go out for dinner and drinks with my friends, no one that I have 15 second interaction with at a theme park is "A friend." 

I've never worn group shirts at WDW, but more and more I'm thinking our next park-day wardrobe shirts would say "I'm a BOY & it's OK to call me that." or "I'm a GIRL & it's OK to call me that." 

I'm tired of having to defend the fact that I am a biological male and expect to be addressed as one in what seems like every interaction these days.  
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Here's some advice.  Stay away from Disney.

You're welcome, my friend. 

 
We are going to DL around X mas.  Everyone else is excited except me.  Not because of political reasons, but because I hate crowds, lines, traffic, and southern Cali in general......happiest place on earth, my ###!  

 
FairWarning said:
I went to Disneyland in 1980, think it was somewhere around $10.  Couldn’t imagine what a family would have to pay today.  They have you by the shorthairs now.  I rarely watch espn because of the woke stuff, but that’s been a long time now. It’s their company, they can do what they want.  We  knew the showdown vs DeSantis would be a big ado about nothing in the long run.
Click to expand...
I don't think $10 gets you a tub of popcorn these days :lmao:

To the bold, some of us did/do.  Many appear to still believe something meaningful is happening.

 
JIslander said:
Here's some advice.  Stay away from Disney.

You're welcome, my friend. 
Click to expand...
Confession:

I read the Disney thread in the FFA regularly. I don't understand all the language ( always make sure you have the Goofy badge, especially if you are a Diamond Duck member when taking the Aqua monorail, it'll save you 1 hour of waiting time),  but it really makes me appreciate not going. 

 
The problem is you are never going to make everyone happy - I think that is partly why Disney is going to a generic phrase (in addition to addressing the current trend around terms) - so they don't have to put up with folks on either side of the debate that are opinionated about it

Disney has those buttons they give out in Main Street with things like "Happy Birthday", "First Time Guest".  Maybe they will let people wear buttons with how they want to be greeted at some point.

 
The Commish said:
No...not even close....four days last week, they were completely sold out.  THAT is the reason not to go anywhere near the parks.  I've lost considerable interest in going to Disney since just before COVID hit, but none of that has to do with these social aspects.
Click to expand...
msudaisy26 said:
Well they own Marvel. So every comic book television show and movie being put out is their property. Those movies are still killing it in the theater every time they come out. 
Click to expand...
So the "self-destruction of a sterling brand" didn't happen? That's surprising (no one was surprised).

 
I'm personally giving up my "It's a Mickey Mouse operation" joke when describing Disneyland.  I'm replacing it with "Generic Mouse"

 
Friends of ours have two young sons that named their dog Spot Friend. Is that triggering for some?

 
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So it’s so strange. I looked up hyperbole in the dictionary and it provided a link to this thread. Interesting.  

 
FairWarning said:
They are masters at marketing.  Maybe they decided it was in their best interests to tone it down a bit.  
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They've been out just as they always are on social issues at the various rallies and the like.  They organized a rally shortly after the RvW reversal...held it in Kissimmee.  They DID choose to just let it play out and haven't harped on the path Ron and company have set the citizens of the county on which is probably smart.  It's going to end exactly one way unless the legislature comes and changes the laws....then the circus would really be on full display.

 
The Commish said:
No...not even close....four days last week, they were completely sold out.  THAT is the reason not to go anywhere near the parks.  I've lost considerable interest in going to Disney since just before COVID hit, but none of that has to do with these social aspects.
Click to expand...
Nobody goes there anymore...it's too crowded.

(Thanks, Yogi)

 
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