Mister CIA
Footballguy
I've had this book sitting on a shelf collecting dust for years. Kind of want to take it for a spin now.
Narrator Voice: I have LOTS of unread books collecting dust.
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The FBG Top 300 Books of All Time (fiction edition) | #16 Animal Farm by George Orwell | Running list in posts #3 and #4 (26 Viewers)
- Thread starter kupcho1
- Start date
Narrator Voice: I have LOTS of unread books collecting dust.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
It’s not about you and it’s not about being unwelcoming, it’s just a joke. Of course the thread is a great idea and I spent a whole post trying to explain to you what was going on, which was unacknowledged. I can be sarcastic but absolutely never malicious and try to be as cool as possible while also allowing for some bite. That is what I liked more about this place in the past, that people could rib without being overly contentious. I guess I can understand how this particular post could be misinterpreted, but I wish that in general we could be less serious, especially if you understand the reference.You’re like a child that wanders into the middle of a movie…
We're going to have the rest of the top 40 tomorrow?
What do you mean "my #1 is tomorrow"?
Or maybe better, what ranking is released tomorrow?
I understand I'm an easy target. But please let's be more cool and welcoming to posters in threads than this. Me included. And yes, I know the Lebowski reference.
People have commented to me how unwelcoming the forums are and I always defend the forums. Maybe I'm naive.
I thought the thread was a great idea and I'm glad @kupcho1 organized it and others contributed. I was trying to understand what was going to be released and when.
It’s not about you and it’s not about being unwelcoming, it’s just a joke. Of course the thread is a great idea and I spent a whole post trying to explain to you what was going on, which was unacknowledged. I can be sarcastic but absolutely never malicious and try to be as cool as possible while also allowing for some bite. That is what I liked more about this place in the past, that people could rib without being overly contentious. I guess I can understand how this particular post could be misinterpreted, but I wish that in general we could be less serious, especially if you understand the reference.You’re like a child that wanders into the middle of a movie…
What do you mean "my #1 is tomorrow"?
Or maybe better, what ranking is released tomorrow?
I understand I'm an easy target. But please let's be more cool and welcoming to posters in threads than this. Me included. And yes, I know the Lebowski reference.
People have commented to me how unwelcoming the forums are and I always defend the forums. Maybe I'm naive.
I thought the thread was a great idea and I'm glad @kupcho1 organized it and others contributed. I was trying to understand what was going to be released and when.
To be clear, zero offense taken. I see this as a forum thing, not about me.
Everyone got the reference. The movie's a classic and probably on most people’s top 50 list here.
But making someone feel small when they’re trying to engage isn’t just a joke—it’s a problem. That’s not about being too "serious”; it’s about community. It's absolutely about being unwelcoming. And if we shut people down for not being in on every inside thing, we make this place less good and welcoming. Even when they're right. As the Dude says when he tells Walter he's not wrong.
This kind of moment highlights why it’s hard to grow the forum and bring in new voices. It’s something I’ve been reflecting on (the Shark Pool struggles with this too), and I want to ask our regulars to help us build a more inclusive, open space.
You’re right, this isn’t about me. It’s about making sure we don’t make others feel dumb or on the outside. Thanks for helping me clarify my thoughts on it as the Walter to Donny line is the perfect example of what we need to watch out for—and why we can do better.
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And apologies for the side track. Please let's get back to the book talk. I'll do that.
I'm not as knowledgeable a reader as you folks so I didn't submit a list for @kupcho1 but I love to read.
Just finished a repeat of the classic Joan Didion - Slouching Toward Bethlehem. Not a novel but I'm a huge fan of her writing style.
Currently about 1/3 of the way through the "Director's Cut" of The Stand. It's more of a challenge than I thought as I think some of what they cut out in the normal version probably should have been cut out.
I don't love horror so a lot of King's stuff doesn't hit for me, but I enjoyed 11/22/63 so much a few months ago I wanted to give the uncut version of The Stand a go. 1,154 pages is a lot so we'll see.
I'm not as knowledgeable a reader as you folks so I didn't submit a list for @kupcho1 but I love to read.
Just finished a repeat of the classic Joan Didion - Slouching Toward Bethlehem. Not a novel but I'm a huge fan of her writing style.
Currently about 1/3 of the way through the "Director's Cut" of The Stand. It's more of a challenge than I thought as I think some of what they cut out in the normal version probably should have been cut out.
I don't love horror so a lot of King's stuff doesn't hit for me, but I enjoyed 11/22/63 so much a few months ago I wanted to give the uncut version of The Stand a go. 1,154 pages is a lot so we'll see.
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Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Agree on the bolded. Did you read the original version?
Yes, but a long time ago. So I'm having a hard a little bit of a hard time remembering what was in the original and what's new.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I remember two large additions, but I'll refrain from mentioning them since you're still reading. Most of the other added stuff is fleshing out existing scenes.
kupcho1
Footballguy
We'll do two today, two Saturday, take Sunday off for Mother's Day and start the countdown of the top 25 on Monday.
28. The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde
Long Ball Larry: #8
ilov80s: #10
krista: #11
rockaction: #40
kupcho1: #58
Total points: 334
Average: 66.8
28. Frankenstein by Mary Shelley
chaos34: #6
scoobus: #30
Dr_Zaius: #31
Oliver Humanzee: #35
Frostillicus: #43
Dr. Octopus: #46
Mrs.Marco: #64
TheBaylorKid: #29
Total points: 334
Average: 41.8
I've got some serious holes to fill in my horror reading. Frankenstein will be my @Chaos34 selection.
BTW, I've marked up the individual lists in the spreadsheet to denote the book I'm planning to read from each list. I've typically (but not always) gone with the highest ranked book I've yet to read. There are a few cases where I'm undecided so I'll be looking to the list owner to make a recommendation.
| 28 | The Picture of Dorian Gray | Oscar Wilde | kupcho1, ilov80s, krista4, rockaction, Long Ball Larry |
| 28 | Frankenstein | Mary Shelley | Dr. Octopus, scoobus, chaos34, TheBaylorKid, Mrs.Marco, Frostillicus, Oliver Humanzee, Dr_Zaius |
28. The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde
Long Ball Larry: #8
ilov80s: #10
krista: #11
rockaction: #40
kupcho1: #58
Total points: 334
Average: 66.8
28. Frankenstein by Mary Shelley
chaos34: #6
scoobus: #30
Dr_Zaius: #31
Oliver Humanzee: #35
Frostillicus: #43
Dr. Octopus: #46
Mrs.Marco: #64
TheBaylorKid: #29
Total points: 334
Average: 41.8
I've got some serious holes to fill in my horror reading. Frankenstein will be my @Chaos34 selection.
BTW, I've marked up the individual lists in the spreadsheet to denote the book I'm planning to read from each list. I've typically (but not always) gone with the highest ranked book I've yet to read. There are a few cases where I'm undecided so I'll be looking to the list owner to make a recommendation.
kupcho1
Footballguy
Two all time classics today. I only read The Picture of Dorian Gray recently but it made quite the impact. So much so that, as an old fart, it's generated my go to when I meet a contemporary that doesn't look like death warmed over (or more rarely, looks good).
Hey, do you have a painting of yourself in an attic somewhere?
A few of them pick up on it, but most just look puzzled before remembering a prior engagement that they're late for.
Hey, do you have a painting of yourself in an attic somewhere?
A few of them pick up on it, but most just look puzzled before remembering a prior engagement that they're late for.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It's pretty amazing that a gothic horror novel that has inspired 100s of movie and television adaptations was written by an 18 year old girl. You feel thrust into a world where a mad scientist can bring the dead back to life from the opening page.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde
The great novel from one of our greatest minds. Narcissism, intellectualism, beauty, art, homosexuality, gender, hedonism, vanity and wit. All the things Wilde is associated with are in this funny, philosophical, gothic horror novel (Wilde’s only). If anyone is unfamiliar with the plot, young and beautiful Dorian Gray sells his soul so that as time passes and his destructive choices pile up, he remains untouched. All of the aging and damage happens not to him but to a painting of him.
Each of us has heaven and hell in him
The great novel from one of our greatest minds. Narcissism, intellectualism, beauty, art, homosexuality, gender, hedonism, vanity and wit. All the things Wilde is associated with are in this funny, philosophical, gothic horror novel (Wilde’s only). If anyone is unfamiliar with the plot, young and beautiful Dorian Gray sells his soul so that as time passes and his destructive choices pile up, he remains untouched. All of the aging and damage happens not to him but to a painting of him.
Each of us has heaven and hell in him
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I am going to make this one to read. I visited the Mary Shelley House of Frankenstein when I was in Bath last year. Really cool museum about her life, and the book’s influence. I considered buying a copy there, but my luggage was getting heavy with books as already bought some Jane Austen from her museum next door to there, and some Shakespeare from The Globe in London. Decided I’d just buy later, but I haven’t gotten around to it yet.
Thanks. It's also interesting reading it post Covid.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
M-O-O-N, that spells "director's cut".
Chaos34
Footballguy
Okay great. I'll try to do Frankenstein justice, but my mornings are busy and this is one I need to think about. Speaking of thinking about things, I've thought of this novel almost every day for almost two years. How's that for a teaser? It is a little awkward telling y'all about Dracula and Frankenstein. My first thought is, "Really?" But here I am and this one is special in several ways so... I will be back.
rockaction
Footballguy
My old friend is a philosophy professor at VMI and he has begun to write extensively about Shelley vis a vis Frankenstein. I’ve never read it. Would love to read it just to write him out of the blue and shoot the breeze about it. So you’re not the only one captivated by it and I’m looking forward to the blurb whenever you get the time.
This is longer and I can’t even get through it, but this is what he had to say about it within the framework of AI and science fiction as a genre.
We Are All Victor Frankenstein: Our Romantic Dream of Artificial Intelligence - VoegelinView
Life Imitating Art If ever there were a time in which one would be justified in repeating the old saw that life imitates art, it might be our present moment. Since 2020 with the release of Open AI’s consumer software application, Chat GPT, advances and widespread commercial adoption of...
voegelinview.com
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Chaos34
Footballguy
I'm sure I'll read the whole thing, thanks. Just the blurb tells me it is exactly why this novel is often on my mind, so since the cat's out the bag, I'll get to it.
Frankenstein, aka The Modern Prometheus
Frankenstein is the original AI story. Almost two years ago I became bothered by all the AI is an existential threat talk and asked here in the AI thread what it was all about. I got a weak answer about employment collapsing that didn't seem like a threat to our very existence, so I started digging into stuff like your philosophy professor buddy. I've read the rebuttals to 100s of melancholic opinions and am rarely moved. The most powerful countries in the world are building a Frankenstein well beyond the genius young Shelley's incredible imagination. It's an arms race with far worse implications than collapsing employment. I'm preparing for doom. We are a mirror image of Dr. Frankenstein's relentless pursuit of scientific glory.
In this goth horror epic Shelley is often credited for inventing science fiction. She wasn't first, but she was early, she popularized it, and she was the best. Her protagonist uses breakthroughs in bio-tech rather than digital tech to play God, to create life. Like AI her immature monster is simple, mindless and a bit of a brute capable of being used for malfeasance. It matures. Shelley's portrayal of a journey to self-awareness is masterful. The monster becomes intelligent and develops emotions - loneliness, despair and terrifyingly, righteous anger. I see that path for our current project.
When I consider where Shelley's head was at 18 compared to mine at that age, heck even now - well, I'm an ape. Go Cowboys! Frankenstein is deep philosophy rolled into, again epistolary goth fiction. We lionise beauty and loathe ugly. She covers the stupidity, cruelty and implications of human vanities. Alienation and isolation lead to drastic responses. Ambition vs. Ethics. Science vs. Nature vs. God. The failure to nurture and shepherd scientific advancement. Tragedy. Also it's kinda romantic and totally classic.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Frankenstein is an argument against technology.
What always struck me as funny is how much of an English gentlemen the monster turns out to be. He is nothing but polite; even his anger and insults are what you would expect of a Victorian. He bears no resemblance whatsoever to our image largely created by Boris Karloff and Hollywood makeup artists.
What always struck me as funny is how much of an English gentlemen the monster turns out to be. He is nothing but polite; even his anger and insults are what you would expect of a Victorian. He bears no resemblance whatsoever to our image largely created by Boris Karloff and Hollywood makeup artists.
timschochet
Footballguy
Of course when I personally think of the Frankenstein monster, the song “Putting On the Ritz” always pops in my head…
timschochet
Footballguy
The Count of Monte Cristo is terrifically exciting for the first third. Then when they get to the Carnival in Rome (when the “Count” first appears) it slows down quite a bit- it’s actually a slog to get through it until the final chapters when once again its speeds up. Overall, though, it has an argument to make as the greatest suspense thriller of all time.
rockaction
Footballguy
You sure, tim? I haven't even read it and I don't believe that is the main point. I'm putting my cards on the table so it's not passive-aggressive, but something in my overall sense of the depth of things pretty much has all my antennae going "no." I think it's more likely about how humans place faith in science and that scientific absolutism is misguided.
I'm being as nice and honest as I can be. I don't even know why I feel impelled to comment; it just seems that your take is likely reductive and very misguided.
Chaos34
Footballguy
yup, I didn't want to put that spoiler in because reading Shelley's articulate monster is a fun and humorous surprise for fresh readers familiar with the dumb brute tropes.
timschochet
Footballguy
I had a political science teacher in college who made the argument a main point of his class. But to be honest it’s been years since I read it so maybe the argument is off base. I’d have to re-read it to rebut you.
kupcho1
Footballguy
Really? He said he's never read it. Just make some stuff up. Or use some real data from the book, like when the monster shut down the life support systems.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, I don’t think tim is going to fudge it or cite one anecdote. I’m also not asking him to do any work. If I’m wrong and flagrantly so, I am open to correction and I’ll take it upon myself to look into it and rebut if wrong. There are also times I’ll be wrong and I cop to it.
I don’t bog people down nor burden them with work; but there is the caveat that I will read it or look it up, and I think (this is a personal opinion) that tim knows this. I’m sure there’s an element of tech run amok; I’m doubting that its central theme is against technology qua technology.
I guess I've been a straight shooter for over a decade and people know that. I was stunned at how the internet operated at first and it’s been a long journey. So communication is an art. I didn’t know how to artfully raise the question without being passive aggressive about it and stating the truth that I think that doesn’t sound like consensus is, to me, the right way to do it. I am also questioning whether I should ask at all but I figured I’d put cards on the table and ask.
It reminds me a bit of the time we had a fabulist come to our health class and claim she was molested by her parents. Our other teacher knew the parents and raised an objection which resulted in most of the class reacting furiously. Turns out that the woman was lying and it was a huge defamation scandal. So when **** isn’t adding up, I ask the person positing the postulate if they’re sure. Usually I have no preconceived notion, but I have Shelley in an old Dover Thrift Edition that I partially read. I also highly doubt—knowing my friend—that a basic Luddite position would interest him at all. So . . . self-conscious question appears.
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kupcho1
Footballguy
Two wildly divergent books in terms of both the number of people having it on their list as well as average score. John Steinbeck is the author I alluded to earlier when Of Mice and Men appeared at #38. There were 8 people with Of Mice and Men on their list, but "only" 7 for The Grapes of Wrath. Yet The Grapes of Wrath scored somewhat higher.
Which brings me to Ulysses. There have been a few books that have appeared already on the countdown that were voted top 10 by all of their nominators (e.g., Pale Fire, Notes from the Underground). But Ulysses is the only book to have been so nominated by 3 people. There is no book yet to come that was nominated by 4 or more people that were all top 10 rankings.
(When you've played around with a spreadsheet for a couple of weeks, you start to notice things.)
26. Ulysses by James Joyce
Don Quixote: #5
kupcho1: #6
Oliver Humanzee: #7
Total points: 345
Average: 115.0
26. The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
Dr_Zaius: #12
Frostillicus: #18
chaos34: #19
KeithR: #23
Psychopav: #41
Barry2: #44
krista4: #45
Total points: 345
Average: 49.3
Enjoy Mother's Day tomorrow; there will be no books posted.
Monday we'll start counting down the top 25.
Which brings me to Ulysses. There have been a few books that have appeared already on the countdown that were voted top 10 by all of their nominators (e.g., Pale Fire, Notes from the Underground). But Ulysses is the only book to have been so nominated by 3 people. There is no book yet to come that was nominated by 4 or more people that were all top 10 rankings.
(When you've played around with a spreadsheet for a couple of weeks, you start to notice things.)
| 26 | Ulysses | James Joyce | kupcho1, Don Quixote, Oliver Humanzee |
| 26 | The Grapes of Wrath | John Steinbeck | chaos34, Frostillicus, Barry2, KeithR, Dr_Zaius, krista4, Psychopav |
26. Ulysses by James Joyce
Don Quixote: #5
kupcho1: #6
Oliver Humanzee: #7
Total points: 345
Average: 115.0
26. The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
Dr_Zaius: #12
Frostillicus: #18
chaos34: #19
KeithR: #23
Psychopav: #41
Barry2: #44
krista4: #45
Total points: 345
Average: 49.3
Enjoy Mother's Day tomorrow; there will be no books posted.
Monday we'll start counting down the top 25.
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Don Quixote
Footballguy
Removing color formatting.Two wildly divergent books in terms of both the number of people having it on their list as well as average score. John Steinbeck is the author I alluded to earlier when Of Mice and Men appeared at #38. There were 8 people with Of Mice and Men on their list, but "only" 7 for The Grapes of Wrath. Yet The Grapes of Wrath scored somewhat higher.
Which brings me to Ulysses. There have been a few books that have appeared already on the countdown that were voted top 10 by all of their nominators (e.g., Pale Fire, Notes from the Underground). But Ulysses is the only book to have been so nominated by 3 people. There is no book yet to come that was nominated by 4 or more people that were all top 10 rankings.
(When you've played around with a spreadsheet for a couple of weeks, you start to notice things.)
26 Ulysses James Joyce kupcho1, Don Quixote, Oliver Humanzee 26 The Grapes of Wrath John Steinbeck chaos34, Frostillicus, Barry2, KeithR, Dr_Zaius, krista4, Psychopav
26. Ulysses by James Joyce
Don Quixote: #5
kupcho1: #6
Oliver Humanzee: #7
Total points: 345
Average: 115.0
26. The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
Dr_Zaius: #12
Frostillicus: #18
chaos34: #19
KeithR: #23
Psychopav: #41
Barry2: #44
krista4: #45
Total points: 345
Average: 49.3
Enjoy Mother's Day tomorrow; there will be no books posted.
Monday we'll start counting down the top 25.
kupcho1
Footballguy
Project Gutenberg has a nice synopsis of Ulysses:
There's also several links if you would like to read the book, ranging from plain text to Kindle files (I haven't a Kindle so I can't vouch for the links). If you weren't already aware of the fact, "Ulysses is the Latinised name of Odysseus, the hero of Homer's epic poem The Odyssey, and the novel establishes a series of parallels between Leopold Bloom and Odysseus." (source: Wiki)
Ulysses was quite the controversial novel. Initially published in serial form (the complete novel came out in 1922) from 1914 to 1921, "the publication of the "Nausicaa" episode (#13 in the book) led to a prosecution for obscenity under the Comstock Act of 1873, which made it illegal to circulate materials deemed obscene in the U.S. mail." (source: Wiki) This effectively banned the publication of the book in the U.S. There's a common myth that Ron DeSantis was behind the suit. This is untrue as he was not yet born.
Not until the 1933 case United States v. One Book Called Ulysses could the novel be published in the United States without fear of prosecution.
@Joe Bryant posted a best opening lines in literature thread a while back, and although this didn't immediately come to mind, I like how Joyce opens the book.
[pause]
OK, I'm back. I had to read a little of the opening chapter and recollected how much I love Joyce's style. Per Buck Mulligan:
I won't go into the structure of the novel too much. Suffice to say there are 18 episodes across 3 "books" (sections). Some editions have chapter numbers. Some don't. The 18 episodes roughly correspond to Homer's Odyssey.
It's unfortunate that the serialization of the novel was halted after episode 13 as episode 14 "Oxen of the Sun" is my absolute favorite and an outstanding achievement
I get that this book isn't for everyone. I had trouble getting through the last episode wherein it is eight paragraphs in a stream of consciousness by Molly Bloom with no punctuation whatsoever. It's not quite Finnegan's Wake hard, but difficult nonetheless.
Fortunately not all of the episodes are that difficult. It's a book I revisit from time-to-time and maybe one day I'll return to Dublin, this time on Bloomsday.
There's also several links if you would like to read the book, ranging from plain text to Kindle files (I haven't a Kindle so I can't vouch for the links). If you weren't already aware of the fact, "Ulysses is the Latinised name of Odysseus, the hero of Homer's epic poem The Odyssey, and the novel establishes a series of parallels between Leopold Bloom and Odysseus." (source: Wiki)
Ulysses was quite the controversial novel. Initially published in serial form (the complete novel came out in 1922) from 1914 to 1921, "the publication of the "Nausicaa" episode (#13 in the book) led to a prosecution for obscenity under the Comstock Act of 1873, which made it illegal to circulate materials deemed obscene in the U.S. mail." (source: Wiki) This effectively banned the publication of the book in the U.S. There's a common myth that Ron DeSantis was behind the suit. This is untrue as he was not yet born.
Not until the 1933 case United States v. One Book Called Ulysses could the novel be published in the United States without fear of prosecution.
@Joe Bryant posted a best opening lines in literature thread a while back, and although this didn't immediately come to mind, I like how Joyce opens the book.
[pause]
OK, I'm back. I had to read a little of the opening chapter and recollected how much I love Joyce's style. Per Buck Mulligan:
I won't go into the structure of the novel too much. Suffice to say there are 18 episodes across 3 "books" (sections). Some editions have chapter numbers. Some don't. The 18 episodes roughly correspond to Homer's Odyssey.
It's unfortunate that the serialization of the novel was halted after episode 13 as episode 14 "Oxen of the Sun" is my absolute favorite and an outstanding achievement
I get that this book isn't for everyone. I had trouble getting through the last episode wherein it is eight paragraphs in a stream of consciousness by Molly Bloom with no punctuation whatsoever. It's not quite Finnegan's Wake hard, but difficult nonetheless.
Fortunately not all of the episodes are that difficult. It's a book I revisit from time-to-time and maybe one day I'll return to Dublin, this time on Bloomsday.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Great write-up. I think I posted earlier that I think A Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man is a better Joyce entry point. Probably The Dubliners short story collection too. Ulysses can be a bit intimidating. At some point, I stopped caring whether I got Joyce’s references. I don’t pretend to have gotten 100% of those, or maybe even 50%. Just let that wash over me and enjoyed the wordplay, the allusions, and the inventive writing style — the stream of consciousness with no punctuation is the kind of thing where the only way to do it is just to close out all distractions and buckle in for the ride. That was the kind of stuff that drew me to it and why I ranked it so highly.Project Gutenberg has a nice synopsis of Ulysses:
There's also several links if you would like to read the book, ranging from plain text to Kindle files (I haven't a Kindle so I can't vouch for the links). If you weren't already aware of the fact, "Ulysses is the Latinised name of Odysseus, the hero of Homer's epic poem The Odyssey, and the novel establishes a series of parallels between Leopold Bloom and Odysseus." (source: Wiki)
Ulysses was quite the controversial novel. Initially published in serial form (the complete novel came out in 1922) from 1914 to 1921, "the publication of the "Nausicaa" episode (#13 in the book) led to a prosecution for obscenity under the Comstock Act of 1873, which made it illegal to circulate materials deemed obscene in the U.S. mail." (source: Wiki) This effectively banned the publication of the book in the U.S. There's a common myth that Ron DeSantis was behind the suit. This is untrue as he was not yet born.
Not until the 1933 case United States v. One Book Called Ulysses could the novel be published in the United States without fear of prosecution.
@Joe Bryant posted a best opening lines in literature thread a while back, and although this didn't immediately come to mind, I like how Joyce opens the book.
[pause]
OK, I'm back. I had to read a little of the opening chapter and recollected how much I love Joyce's style. Per Buck Mulligan:
I won't go into the structure of the novel too much. Suffice to say there are 18 episodes across 3 "books" (sections). Some editions have chapter numbers. Some don't. The 18 episodes roughly correspond to Homer's Odyssey.
It's unfortunate that the serialization of the novel was halted after episode 13 as episode 14 "Oxen of the Sun" is my absolute favorite and an outstanding achievement
I get that this book isn't for everyone. I had trouble getting through the last episode wherein it is eight paragraphs in a stream of consciousness by Molly Bloom with no punctuation whatsoever. It's not quite Finnegan's Wake hard, but difficult nonetheless.
Fortunately not all of the episodes are that difficult. It's a book I revisit from time-to-time and maybe one day I'll return to Dublin, this time on Bloomsday.
timschochet
Footballguy
After Ulysses was ranked #1 by the Random House people, I tried to read it. I gave up after about 30 pages. I don’t think I’m a stupid guy but I had no idea what I was reading.
Then a friend of mine told me that there are books out there than explain Ulysses page by page. But that much effort for a novel doesn’t interest me. I read novels for entertainment and pleasure- I want to be swept away by a good story. I offer no criticism here of those folks who appreciate poetic writing or the other aspects that cause Ulysses and similar works to be regarded as great novels. But it’s just not my cup of tea.
Then a friend of mine told me that there are books out there than explain Ulysses page by page. But that much effort for a novel doesn’t interest me. I read novels for entertainment and pleasure- I want to be swept away by a good story. I offer no criticism here of those folks who appreciate poetic writing or the other aspects that cause Ulysses and similar works to be regarded as great novels. But it’s just not my cup of tea.
timschochet
Footballguy
I read The Grapes of Wrath in high school and upon reflection I should have included it in my list. Such a great story. It works because the characters are so believable.
rockaction
Footballguy
I’m not necessarily totally with tim (I am one of those people that even recently used a translator for Shakespeare in one of those books that uses the other side of the page for the meaning of the older English) but I always peter out after a few pages of Ulysses, which is odd because maybe I’m not the appreciator of stylish writing that I think I am. Someday I’ll give it another go. kupcho1, you’re doing a really good job promoting the books with your write-ups. They make me want to give every book a chance again. Heh.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Yeah I agree with this. I've tried to read a few things by Joyce and just couldn't get more than a few pages into them. Then I tried Falkner after reading about his stuff in this thread and had the same problem.
It's funny because I'd say I must not have the patience but I truly love Dostoevsky and it's not like his novels just dive right in. I guess I'm just not good with the introspective style. The author expects too much of me I suppose. I'm too lazy for Joyce or Falkner
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Now Grapes of Wrath I also read in HS and loved it. After Of Mice and Men freshman year and Grapes of Wrath junior year, I had to read East of Eden as well. And Travels with Charley. And then Grapes again. Love me some John Steinbeck and some Joads (I'm looking at you, Tom and Rosasharn).
Mrs.Marco
Footballguy
The styrofoam peanut chapter of Bonfire is one of the best things I've ever read. I agree that the book captures that time period to perfection (and the movie did not do justice to the book).
rockaction
Footballguy
Crazy that I nearly idolized Wolfe in my twenties and never read Bonfire. I fear it might be too late, so what a misstep it was not to have read it then.
Mrs.Marco
Footballguy
I just bought a copy of Dracula, which I've never read, after visiting the abbey that inspired Stoker. I am not usually drawn to vampire stories so I might like the slower epistolary style.
Mrs.Marco
Footballguy
The Odyssey by Homer
I love the way this epic tale still feels exciting so many hundreds of years later. It's really one of the first great adventure stories with a wonderfully flawed hero and a quirky cast of supporting characters. Reading everyone's reviews of other favorite books shows so many connections to this ancient story--readers are still captivated by audacious flawed heroes and episodic storytelling. The Odyssey is essentially a roadtrip story--like the Grapes of Wrath, The Road, The Life of Pi. It's one of those foundational books that show up again and again in all sorts of artistic mediums.
I love the way this epic tale still feels exciting so many hundreds of years later. It's really one of the first great adventure stories with a wonderfully flawed hero and a quirky cast of supporting characters. Reading everyone's reviews of other favorite books shows so many connections to this ancient story--readers are still captivated by audacious flawed heroes and episodic storytelling. The Odyssey is essentially a roadtrip story--like the Grapes of Wrath, The Road, The Life of Pi. It's one of those foundational books that show up again and again in all sorts of artistic mediums.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I read Grapes of Wrath for the first time about 5-10 years ago. Knocked me on my ***. Incredible writing.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I read Grapes of Wrath a month or two ago, after I submitted my 70. As I was pulling together my list, I realized that was one that I had never read. Definitely would have found some space for it on my 70.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I am watching The Third Man again right now and for the firs time was struck by the obvious connection to The Quiet American. Both being written bu Graham Greene but I just never thought about the obvious theme of the naive but well meaning American making a mess of things that he only has the most surface level understanding of. Greene really nailed us down.
kupcho1
Footballguy
Wow, you take one day off and you fall to the second page. Anyway, we're in to the top 25
25. Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov
kirsta4: #5
kupcho1: #11
Oliver Humanzee: #12
Don Quixote: #14
Total points: 374
Average: 93.5
When I came up with the scoring system for this exercise I wanted to "reward" the top 25 books on everyone's list (rather than "straight line" scoring in reverse order). This really shows up here. The spread between the #25 and #26 (The Grapes of Wrath) books overall was 29 points. This is the largest difference yet (2nd place was the jump from The Remains of the Day to Infinite Jest). There are still some massive jumps to come, some close to 100 points.
tl;dr I think the scoring system worked.
| 25 | Lolita | Vladimir Nabokov | kupcho1, Don Quixote, Oliver Humanzee, krista4 |
25. Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov
kirsta4: #5
kupcho1: #11
Oliver Humanzee: #12
Don Quixote: #14
Total points: 374
Average: 93.5
When I came up with the scoring system for this exercise I wanted to "reward" the top 25 books on everyone's list (rather than "straight line" scoring in reverse order). This really shows up here. The spread between the #25 and #26 (The Grapes of Wrath) books overall was 29 points. This is the largest difference yet (2nd place was the jump from The Remains of the Day to Infinite Jest). There are still some massive jumps to come, some close to 100 points.
tl;dr I think the scoring system worked.
kupcho1
Footballguy
I'll leave it to others to discuss the book (although if you do read it, this is one of the rare cases where I'll recommend reading the annotated version), but I did want to weigh in on Nabokov, one of the most interesting authors ever. Some highlights:
- Vladimir Vladimirovich Nabokov was born in Imperial Russia in 1899
- His family traced its roots to the 14th-century Tatar prince Nabok Murza, who entered into the service of the Tsars, and from whom the family name is derived
- His father was Vladimir Dmitrievich Nabokov, a liberal lawyer, statesman, and journalist, and his mother was the heiress Yelena Ivanovna née Rukavishnikova, the granddaughter of a millionaire gold-mine owner
- Trilingual in Russian, English, and French from an early age
- Nabokov became a U.S. citizen in 1945
- From 1948 to 1959, Nabokov was a professor of Russian literature at Cornell University where Ruth Bader Ginsberg and Thomas Pynchon were among his students
- Nabokov was an expert lepidopterist and composer of chess problems
- Writer Ayn Rand recalled Olga (her close friend at Stoiunina Gymnasium) as a supporter of constitutional monarchy who first awakened Rand's interest in politics (so don't blame Vladimir)
- Nabokov also makes cameo appearances in some of his novels, such as the character Vivian Darkbloom (an anagram of "Vladimir Nabokov"), who appears in both Lolita and Ada, or Ardor, and the character Blavdak Vinomori (another anagram of Nabokov's name) in King, Queen, Knave.
krista4
Footballguy
You'd think I might be the one to write up Lolita since I had it highest, but (1) I'm nearly impossibly behind right now and have others to attend to first, and (2) I don't really think it's my #5 book. After my #1, I was a bit scattershot in my upper-tier rankings, and while most that have been posted in my top 10 seem correctly placed there, I'm not sure about this one. I do love it, but it should probably have been in the 15-20 range for me. OH can probably talk about it better than I, as Nabokov is his favorite author, I think.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Think I did the Pale Fire and Ada write-ups, so I’m happy to let someone else give Nabokov a go here.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
I have a paperback copy somewhere around. The first time I tried to read it I got about 10 pages, then a few years later I started again and made it maybe 30 or so. I just couldn't get into it either time. It makes me feel a bit like a troglodyte that I can't appreciate the writing more. I think maybe I'm too plot and idea driven in my novel reading to really grok it properly. Maybe I'll still try again some day.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
Steinbeck is a great writer, and here he gives us the tale of Tom Joad and his family as they flee Oklahoma during the Dust Bowl, heading west to California trying to survive as their circumstances threaten to crush them. As Tim mentioned, Steinbeck writes great characters - you understand their motivations and their actions flow naturally from them, and this drives the plot forward. The novel asks a lot of difficult questions, such as what are everybody's responsibilities to their fellow man when disaster strikes? Throughout the novel the massive economic dislocations caused by the prolonged drought have led to a glut of workers, and the iron law of supply and demand is a pressing weight upon those who are just trying to survive and maintain their dignity.
Steinbeck is a great writer, and here he gives us the tale of Tom Joad and his family as they flee Oklahoma during the Dust Bowl, heading west to California trying to survive as their circumstances threaten to crush them. As Tim mentioned, Steinbeck writes great characters - you understand their motivations and their actions flow naturally from them, and this drives the plot forward. The novel asks a lot of difficult questions, such as what are everybody's responsibilities to their fellow man when disaster strikes? Throughout the novel the massive economic dislocations caused by the prolonged drought have led to a glut of workers, and the iron law of supply and demand is a pressing weight upon those who are just trying to survive and maintain their dignity.
Keith R
The Don
This is one I've always been interested in reading but have found too intimidating to actually start. One of you high raters, please talk me into it once and for all!Wow, you take one day off and you fall to the second page. Anyway, we're in to the top 25
25 Lolita Vladimir Nabokov kupcho1, Don Quixote, Oliver Humanzee, krista4
25. Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov
kirsta4: #5
kupcho1: #11
Oliver Humanzee: #12
Don Quixote: #14
Total points: 374
Average: 93.5
When I came up with the scoring system for this exercise I wanted to "reward" the top 25 books on everyone's list (rather than "straight line" scoring in reverse order). This really shows up here. The spread between the #25 and #26 (The Grapes of Wrath) books overall was 29 points. This is the largest difference yet (2nd place was the jump from The Remains of the Day to Infinite Jest). There are still some massive jumps to come, some close to 100 points.
tl;dr I think the scoring system worked.
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