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The Great 2020 All Time Television Draft: The Simpsons is judged the greatest show of all time (4 Viewers)

I can help if needed as well.

I can help with sci-fi and horror if needed.  I checked to see if I had seen most of the horror show, and I have.  Wouldn't have thought GoT as a horror show so perhaps I need to see if there were posts that clarified it (I see the word Supernatural) behind the category so it would fit there.
Yes, there are supernatural elements, and the whole white walker thing is a big backstory, but it's not primarily a supernatural/horror show in the same sense as the others. It's easily the "best" overall show in the list, but the best horror/supernatural show? Errr...

Ugh... did I mention judging is hard?

 
She also only had 44 minutes of screen time over the course of the series.  And though she had some epic moments and quotes (some that turned into memes like a cat wearing her headdress saying “tell her it was me”), I’m not sure how many non-GOT viewers know much about that character.  She was an incredible character, but that was my reasoning for her lower ranking. 
Even though I disagree with the ranking, I respect your process for reaching your rankings and thank you for doing them.

 
Honestly this is a great point.  Tim was specific all along that we are drafting characters.  While Emmys should factor in and give a clue on popularity or influence, it probably should be more of a tie breaker and not the main criteria.  

Emilia getting Emmy noms shouldn't matter as much as character arc, influence, prominence, quality, etc.  
That's how I looked at it. I didn't tally awards / Emmy noms for TV detective, but seeing awards for a character did help in further sorting them out in my mind. 

 
Emmy's to me represent the recognition of the Character as well as how it was played, that's how I view it anyway, it's just a piece of the puzzle, but Alison Janney's 4 wins as CJ shouldn't amount to nothing imho... That being said, a show Like the Wire received virtually no Award recognition at all.... so it's just like said above more of a tie-breaker thingy... 

I personally did not lean on them heavily but I had to look at them to make sure I was being fair...

Will be interested to see how Friends does in the Comedy category....

 
Bee tee dubs,

I am not really complaining. I appreciate the job the judges do.  My pick deserved a low score and you see no complaints from me on that. 

 
Yes, there are supernatural elements, and the whole white walker thing is a big backstory, but it's not primarily a supernatural/horror show in the same sense as the others. It's easily the "best" overall show in the list, but the best horror/supernatural show? Errr...

Ugh... did I mention judging is hard?
I will be honest - I was replying to your post and saying that I would help with horror.  1/2 way through I decided to look at the list and tapped out.  For a genre I love in movies, the horror shows mostly suck (and I thought the list reflected that).  If if wasn't that, it was better quality shows that probably pushed the definition of "horror" a bit for me like GoT and Twin Peaks, and I guess i am not up for an argument (at least from the judge's side) about why those shows might have gotten dinged from me.  

Good luck! 

 
Honestly this is a great point.  Tim was specific all along that we are drafting characters.  While Emmys should factor in and give a clue on popularity or influence, it probably should be more of a tie breaker and not the main criteria.  

Emilia getting Emmy noms shouldn't matter as much as character arc, influence, prominence, quality, etc.  
GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY DOES NO ONE READ MY POSTS IN THIS THREAD, EITHER????

 
She also only had 44 minutes of screen time over the course of the series.  And though she had some epic moments and quotes (some that turned into memes like a cat wearing her headdress saying “tell her it was me”), I’m not sure how many non-GOT viewers know much about that character.  She was an incredible character, but that was my reasoning for her lower ranking. 
Even though I disagree with the ranking, I respect your process for reaching your rankings and thank you for doing them.
I had no idea she only had 44 minutes of screen time.  Of course this is a sweeping ensemble so that is somewhat to be expected.  I was the goofy outlier judge on that one. I thought she dominated the scenes she was in (hence supporting) and just think her acting is brilliant.  Much better in fact than Clarke's, who I had ranked higher because the character arc was tremendous (until the crap ending).  Yep judging is hard :)

I was also the low judge on Kim Wexler, and that is a show that I've only seen a handful of episodes on and she didn't make a huge impression on those episodes.  I'm glad the other judges were there to balance me out since she seems to be universally acclaimed.  Of course all (or most) of these selection will be acclaimed since it's akin to saying someone in the Hall of Fame is pretty good.

 
I had no idea she only had 44 minutes of screen time.  Of course this is a sweeping ensemble so that is somewhat to be expected.  I was the goofy outlier judge on that one. I thought she dominated the scenes she was in (hence supporting) and just think her acting is brilliant.  Much better in fact than Clarke's, who I had ranked higher because the character arc was tremendous (until the crap ending).  Yep judging is hard :)

I was also the low judge on Kim Wexler, and that is a show that I've only seen a handful of episodes on and she didn't make a huge impression on those episodes.  I'm glad the other judges were there to balance me out since she seems to be universally acclaimed.  Of course all (or most) of these selection will be acclaimed since it's akin to saying someone in the Hall of Fame is pretty good.
It took me a while to come around to how Clarke played her character. I give her the benefit of the doubt that in the early seasons, Dany was in a bit of a fog because she had been through a lot in the time leading up to when the show started and should have had some PTSD. I also gave the benefit of the doubt about how she grew as the seasons unfolded, but how her heel turn went didn't sit with me. I could be way off base with what they were going for but I think that's a fair interpretation.

Also,  I agree that Dany's arc was 'better' than Olenna's but that didn't make Olenna a one-note character, either.  What I don't think should have factored into the rankings yet was a big reason why I wanted her was Diana Rigg was the perfect choice to play her, considering Olenna's granddaughter was played by Natalie Dormer, whose beauty is in the same category as Rigg in her youth.

 
I had no idea she only had 44 minutes of screen time.  Of course this is a sweeping ensemble so that is somewhat to be expected.  I was the goofy outlier judge on that one. I thought she dominated the scenes she was in (hence supporting) and just think her acting is brilliant.  Much better in fact than Clarke's, who I had ranked higher because the character arc was tremendous (until the crap ending).  Yep judging is hard :)

I was also the low judge on Kim Wexler, and that is a show that I've only seen a handful of episodes on and she didn't make a huge impression on those episodes.  I'm glad the other judges were there to balance me out since she seems to be universally acclaimed.  Of course all (or most) of these selection will be acclaimed since it's akin to saying someone in the Hall of Fame is pretty good.
understood, it stings as Kim was my pick, but it's all in good fun... If you were a fan of the show and watched all the way through you may have come to see that Kim is the heart and soul as I have seen it, she just crushes it in this show. 

 
I had no idea she only had 44 minutes of screen time.  Of course this is a sweeping ensemble so that is somewhat to be expected.  I was the goofy outlier judge on that one. I thought she dominated the scenes she was in (hence supporting) and just think her acting is brilliant.  Much better in fact than Clarke's, who I had ranked higher because the character arc was tremendous (until the crap ending).  Yep judging is hard :)

I was also the low judge on Kim Wexler, and that is a show that I've only seen a handful of episodes on and she didn't make a huge impression on those episodes.  I'm glad the other judges were there to balance me out since she seems to be universally acclaimed.  Of course all (or most) of these selection will be acclaimed since it's akin to saying someone in the Hall of Fame is pretty good.
understood, it stings as Kim was my pick, but it's all in good fun... If you were a fan of the show and watched all the way through you may have come to see that Kim is the heart and soul as I have seen it, she just crushes it in this show. 
It has actually made me want to watch the show from the start.  Breaking Bad was tremendous TV, but honestly I felt down sometimes watching it.  Wasn't sure I wanted to plunge back in with Saul.  I need to give it a better chance.

 
It has actually made me want to watch the show from the start.  Breaking Bad was tremendous TV, but honestly I felt down sometimes watching it.  Wasn't sure I wanted to plunge back in with Saul.  I need to give it a better chance.
I think Saul is better than BB. It's tighter, and the showrunners have a much better idea of where they are going. 

 
Jeez, according to some, I should have put Rhoda a 2 (Instead of 14 which I scored) and Lou Grant a 3 (Instead of 15 which I scored) because I couldn't stand either character.

Luckily, for those that drafted them,  I can look past my personal preferences.

 
Working with Hags on Cmmercials cat.   You guys missed some that easily would have made the list....

Energizer Bunny
Alka Seltezer Plop Plop fizz fizz and I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Dos Equis

 
Uruk-Hai said:
I think Saul is better than BB. It's tighter, and the showrunners have a much better idea of where they are going. 
I love Saul but still think this is blasphemy.  Also, it's a little unfair to specifically compare the idea of "where they are going" - we all know where they are going - they are leading in to BB.  Really the only question is:

Does Kim die/what happens to Kim?  Outside of that, I'm not sure there's really anything unknown of note that could come out of the conclusion of Saul.  Although I guess the fate of Saul in KC could also be of interest

Either way - both shows are outstanding.

 
I love Saul but still think this is blasphemy.  Also, it's a little unfair to specifically compare the idea of "where they are going" - we all know where they are going - they are leading in to BB.  Really the only question is:

Does Kim die/what happens to Kim?  Outside of that, I'm not sure there's really anything unknown of note that could come out of the conclusion of Saul.  Although I guess the fate of Saul in KC could also be of interest


Either way - both shows are outstanding.
:shrug:

I feels how I feels

 
Working with Hags on Cmmercials cat.   You guys missed some that easily would have made the list....

Energizer Bunny
Alka Seltezer Plop Plop fizz fizz and I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Dos Equis
The other one I debated taking was the Crying Native American - anti-littering PSA

 
I think by doing characters instead of actors one of the big misses is not being able to draft Tatiana Maslany for her multiple performances in Orphan Black.  I took the show, but that was a reason I was trying to push a little bit for the wildcard category.     I think Kari Russell in The Americans is right there as she morphs through different characters (I admitted I should have taken her instead of my pick), but at least that was the same central character unlike OB where it is many different characters.   No biggie, just wanted to give a shout out.  

Also in horror, did The Bates Motel get any love?  Along with Hannibal, that was one of my biggest surprises in the last decade or so, and ended up really liking what they did with that prequel.   Farmiga and Highmore were outstanding in that show, even if it did get a little campy at times.  Well worth the watch.  

 
rick6668 said:
Jeez, according to some, I should have put Rhoda a 2 (Instead of 14 which I scored) and Lou Grant a 3 (Instead of 15 which I scored) because I couldn't stand either character.

Luckily, for those that drafted them,  I can look past my personal preferences.
Agree, I definitely wouldn't judge based on who is likable and don't think many others would either.  That doesn't define what's a great character.

Working with Hags on Cmmercials cat.   You guys missed some that easily would have made the list....

Energizer Bunny
Alka Seltezer Plop Plop fizz fizz and I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Dos Equis
Well, technically they all make the list.

:shrug:

I feels how I feels
I'm with you on this one, GB.  I prefer the human drama aspects of Saul.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have all the inputs for 71'90 drama, lead actress, and lead actor.  My staff will crunch the numbers, and I'll start posting these tomorrow.

 
I think by doing characters instead of actors one of the big misses is not being able to draft Tatiana Maslany for her multiple performances in Orphan Black.  I took the show, but that was a reason I was trying to push a little bit for the wildcard category.     I think Kari Russell in The Americans is right there as she morphs through different characters (I admitted I should have taken her instead of my pick), but at least that was the same central character unlike OB where it is many different characters.   No biggie, just wanted to give a shout out.  

Also in horror, did The Bates Motel get any love?  Along with Hannibal, that was one of my biggest surprises in the last decade or so, and ended up really liking what they did with that prequel.   Farmiga and Highmore were outstanding in that show, even if it did get a little campy at times.  Well worth the watch.  
Bates Motel was on my very short list and I was surprised it didn’t get drafted. Loved that show. 

 
Working with Hags on Cmmercials cat.   You guys missed some that easily would have made the list....

Energizer Bunny
Alka Seltezer Plop Plop fizz fizz and I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Dos Equis
One we kicked around was the Glavine & Maddox - Chicks dig the long ball.  

 
Can I ask for some help with both sci-fi and horror? If anyone wants to send a 1-16 (comments optional), I'd appreciate it. It's impossible to give a completely fair shake to the several shows I am unfamiliar with. I'll watch a little, but I'd appreciate other's opinions to balance my own.
I can help with Sci-fi, not so sure about horror.
I'll get you a list this evening.  I wasn't familiar with Devs or The Prisoner, so I watched Devs yesterday and am halfway through The Prisoner.

 
1991-2020 Supporting Man Rankings

Criteria

Combined rankings with @mphtrilogy @Corporation @wikkidpissah and @AAABatteries.  This was a stacked category with some of the best television characters of all time.  Ties in the combined score were broken by who was ranked highest by the most rankers.  There wasn’t nearly the amount of variability between the judges as we had in the Supporting Woman category, so I’m sure nobody will have any issues with these rankings.

Notable exclusions that may have scored well include Jack McFarland (Will & Grace), Robert Barone (Everybody Loves Raymond), Artie (The Larry Sanders Show), and Christopher Moltisanti (Sopranos).  The depth of this category would have given reason to break it into drama and comedy subsets – more than any of the other supporting categories.

The Bottom Tier

Somebody had to be at the bottom and it was these two.  It was really even that close either.

16 - Rupert Giles (1 pts)

Played by Anthony Head on Buffy the Vampire Slayer - 0 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 1/1/2/3/1)

15 - Dr. John Carter (2 pts)

Played by Noah Wyle on ER - 5 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 2/3/1/1/2)

 
1991-2020 Supporting Man Rankings – Part 2

The Supporting All-Stars

How can these incredible characters not even make the top two tiers?  They are awesome, notable withing their shows, memorable outside the shows, many with significant award recognition (I know, I know).  Just read ahead to see why they couldn’t be placed any higher.

14 - Frank Barone (3 pts)

Played by Peter Boyle on Everybody Loves Raymond - 7 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 4/2/4/4/5)

13 - Barney Stinson (4 pts)

Played by Neil Patrick Harris on How I Met Your Mother - 4 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 3/6/8/2/3)

12 - Ari Gold (5 pts)

Played by Jeremy Piven on Entourage - 4 Emmy nominations, with 3 wins

(Individual rankings - 5/8/3/5/4)

11 - Mike Ehrmantraut (6 pts)

Played by Jonathan Banks on Breaking Bad - 5 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 7/4/5/8/9)

*** Best bargain in the rankings (tied) – was the 15th selection in this category ***

10 - Tobias Funke (7 pts)

Played by David Cross on Arrested Development - 0 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 6/5/7/9/6)

9 - Dr. Niles Crane (8 pts)

Played by David Hyde Pierce on Frasier - 11 Emmy nominations, with 4 wins

(Individual rankings - 12/12/6/6/7)

8 - Roger Sterling, Jr. (9 pts)

Played by John Slattery on Mad Men - 4 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 10/9/10/7/8)

*** Biggest faller in the rankings – was the 4th selection in this category ***

 
1991-2020 Supporting Man Rankings – Part 3

The Super-Stars

Incredible, iconic characters – amongst the best in TV history.  The fact they aren’t in the top tier in the rankings is testament to the power of the top 4 in this epic category.

7 - Ronald Ulysses Swanson (10 pts)

Played by Nick Offerman on Parks & Rec - 0 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 8/7/12/15/12)

6 - Dwight Schrute (11 pts)

Played by Rainn Wilson on The Office - 3 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 9/10/13/10/13)

*** Best bargain in the rankings (tied) – was the 10th selection in this category ***

5 - Omar Little (12 pts)

Played by Michael K. Williams on The Wire - 0 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 11/13/14/11/11)

 
1991-2020 Supporting Man Rankings – Part 4

The Sultans of Support

What can I say, these four are amazing.  Easily 1B in status to the main characters in their shows with many times where they were the focus of their series (with the exception of maybe one, but I have a poster of him in my garage).

4 - Jesse Pinkman (13 pts)

Played by Aaron Paul on Breaking Bad - 5 Emmy nominations, with 3 wins

(Individual rankings - 15/11/9/14/15)

3 - Cosmo Kramer (14 pts)

Played by Michael Richards on Seinfeld - 5 Emmy nominations, with 3 wins

(Individual rankings - 13/14/15/16/10)

2 - George Costanza (15 pts)

Played by Jason Alexander on Seinfeld - 7 Emmy nominations, with 0 wins

(Individual rankings - 14/15/11/12/16)

1 - Tyrion Lannister (16 pts)

Played by Peter Dinklage on Game of Thrones - 8 Emmy nominations, with 4 wins

(Individual rankings - 16/16/16/13/14)

 
1991-2020 Supporting Man Final Rankings

16 pts - Tyrion Lannister (#1)

15 pts - George Costanza (#2)

14 pts - Cosmo Kramer (#3)

13 pts - Jesse Pinkman (#4)

12 pts - Omar Little (#5)

11 pts - Dwight Schrute (#6)

10 pts - Ronald Ulysses Swanson (#7)

9 pts - Roger Sterling, Jr. (#8)

8 pts - Dr. Niles Crane (#9)

7 pts - Tobias Funke (#10)

6 pts - Mike Ehrmantraut (#11)

5 pts - Ari Gold (#12)

4 pts - Barney Stinson (#13)

3 pts - Frank Barone (#14)

2 pts - Dr. John Carter (#15)

1 pts - Rupert Giles (#16)

 
1 --Yo Mama--133

2 --tuffnutt--107

3 --Tolstoy--106

4 --Hov34--104

5 --jwb--104

6 --AcerFC--103

7 --Zow--97

8 --KarmaPolice--94

9 --timschochet--93

10 -Gally Steiner--90

11 -mphtrilogy--90

12 -rick6668--84

13 -Mrs. Rannous--79

14 -Doug B--77

15 -Pitchfork--70

16 -TripleLayne--66

 

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