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The Great Covid Pivot: Trump now to blame for Vaccine Inneffectiveness (1 Viewer)

The General

Footballguy
I can’t read this article. What I heard about this report was primarily regarding Trump pressuring for the hydrocholroxvquine or what ever it was called along with some other treatments.

What is the portion involving the vaccines?
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
Whenever this issue comes up, I feel like I'm having a debate with someone who just arrived on a spaceship from Mars. Because for the rest of us who were sentient in the fall of 2020, it was obvious that Trump was openly thirsting for a pre-election vaccine approval in order to help his re-election bid. That's what this House report is about. That was why Kamala Harris said she wouldn't trust a vaccine based solely on Trump's say-so.

Debating the issue without acknowledging that fact is like Garfield Minus Garfield.
 
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MAC_32

Footballguy
Whenever this issue comes up, I feel like I'm having a debate with someone who just arrived on a spaceship from Mars. Because for the rest of us who were sentient in the fall of 2020, it was obvious that Trump was openly thirsting for a pre-election vaccine approval in order to help his re-election bid. That's what this House report is about. That was why Kamala Harris said she wouldn't trust a vaccine based solely on Trump's say-so.

Debating the issue without acknowledging that fact is like Garfield Minus Garfield.
Correct. I think it's a waste of resources to expend any time nor energy on it as those that need to know this aren't going to listen to it anyway and this is nowhere near the same level as J6 and Ukraine, but for the good that admin did helping get the project off the ground you'd have to be a real dullard to think his early fall motivations had to do with anything but enhancing re-election.
 

MAC_32

Footballguy
Did anyone read this article?

What is the part about vaxes?
Part 1

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.





White House officials such as trade adviser Peter Navarro and outside allies such as TV host and physician Mehmet Oz also pressed federal officials in 2020 to authorize the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine as a coronavirus treatment, with Navarro and a deputy working behind the scenes to have a hospital craft a request to the FDA for widespread access to the debunked therapy touted by Trump, the House select subcommittee on the coronavirus crisis concluded in a report released Wednesday.



The report adds new details to the contemporaneous reports about the Trump White House’s efforts to sway the FDA in the first year of the pandemic, a pressure campaign that rattled agency officials and threatened to undermine confidence in vaccines and other medical treatments, former commissioner Stephen Hahn told the panel.



“I felt very strongly about the fact that our scientists had created this [vaccine] guidance. I totally supported the science and the clinical data behind it, and I objected to any suggestion that it be changed,” Hahn said in a January 2022 interview that the panel made newly public. “I also felt any changes would be obviously reported and would further reduce vaccine confidence.”

Officials and public health experts have also said that Trump’s attacks on the FDA left lingering scars on the agency and contributed to fading trust in health officials responding to the pandemic across the government.



“These assaults on our nation’s public health institutions undermined the nation’s coronavirus response — and are precisely why we must never again settle for leaders who prioritize politics over keeping Americans safe,” Rep. James E. Clyburn (D-S.C.), the panel’s chair, said in a statement.



Republicans have decried the Democrat-led panel’s work as politically motivated and vow to launch their own investigations into Anthony S. Fauci, the government’s top infectious-disease expert, and the Biden administration’s coronavirus response, should they retake one or both chambers of Congress this fall.



“For over two years, congressional Democrats have refused to hold a single hearing on the origins of COVID, or our government’s possible financial involvement in gain-of-function research. That will change when House Republicans take the majority next year,” Rep. Steve Scalise (La.), the panel’s top Republican, wrote in a statement Monday, after Fauci announced he was stepping down in December. Gain-of-function research involves using laboratory techniques to enhance a virus, which some argue without evidence led to the pandemic.



The House report issued Wednesday focuses on several FDA decisions in 2020, including officials’ debates over how best to expedite vaccines while ensuring they were safe and effective. Trump publicly and privately campaigned for the FDA to move faster, accusing it of deliberately postponing decisions until after the Nov. 3 election to undercut his reelection prospects.

“The deep state, or whoever, over at the FDA is making it very difficult for drug companies to get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics,” Trump wrote in an Aug. 22 tweet, tagging then-commissioner Hahn. “Obviously, they are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed, and saving lives!”

A spokesman for Trump did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
 

MAC_32

Footballguy
Part 2

Behind the scenes, senior FDA officials concluded by September that they wanted to review two months of safety data after participants in clinical trials had received their second shot of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines — a decision that would delay the agency’s vaccine authorization decisions until after the election.



“We were not going to cut corners in our assessment,” Hahn told the panel, adding the agency had already streamlined a vaccine-authorization process that typically took far longer, and he feared fallout on vaccine confidence.

“I was concerned about the entire environment: a presidential election, bitter divisions in the country and in Congress. And to me, it was a pretty significant combination of factors that led to a decrease in … confidence in science and medicine,” Hahn said.



But after the FDA submitted its planned timeline for approval in September 2020, Trump officials delayed the agency’s request, pressing for its justifications, prompting FDA officials to fret about the impact.

“The ambiguity here is actually creating more problems than a decision one way or the other” on finalizing the guidance to vaccine makers, Peter Marks, the FDA’s top vaccine official, wrote in a Sept. 29 email to Hahn and the agency’s then-chief of staff, Keagan Lenihan.



The FDA ultimately circumvented the White House on Oct. 6, publishing its vaccine guidance in briefing documents for the agency’s outside advisers. The White House later that day formally approved the guidance — but Trump mocked the decision on social media.



“New FDA Rules make it more difficult for them to speed up vaccines for approval before Election Day. Just another political hit job!” Trump wrote on Twitter, again tagging Hahn in his tweet.



The tweet



In his panel interview, Hahn acknowledged the FDA faced pushback over its timeline from the White House and senior health officials, such as former Health and Human Services secretary Alex Azar. But Hahn he said he was confident the agency had prioritized safety.

“It came down to this as the most appropriate and pragmatic way to assess the vaccines,” Hahn said. “Balancing … speed with making sure we got the decision right.”



Through a spokesman Wednesday, Hahn declined to comment on the report. Azar did not respond to a request for comment.



The panel’s report also details the months-long battles over hydroxychloroquine, the malaria drug also used to treat some autoimmune conditions that Trump and some others seized on as a coronavirus cure despite scant evidence. Beginning in March 2020, Hahn and other health officials were inundated with messages from pro-hydroxychloroquine commentators, including emails from Fox News host Laura Ingraham and Oz, who called for patients to immediately begin receiving the treatment. Randomized studies later showed that patients given the drug did no better than those receiving a placebo.



“We have a potential pandemic solution at our finger tips,” Oz wrote March 23 to Jared Kushner, then a White House senior adviser and Trump’s son-in-law. The TV host cited data provided by a French scientist that “after 6 days of treatment, 100 percent of trial patients were free of virus” and said that a U.S. study on the drug should be a “national priority.”



Oz is now running as the Republican candidate for Senate in Pennsylvania. Through a campaign spokeswoman, Oz defended his work on hydroxychloroquine, saying that at the start of the pandemic, he “spoke with health experts worldwide who were seeing hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as viable treatment options for desperately ill covid patients and [Oz] offered to fund a clinical trial at Columbia University.”



The FDA initially authorized hydroxychloroquine March 29, despite the skepticism of career scientists worried about the scant data that it was effective. But the agency revoked authorization for the treatment in June, amid mounting evidence that it did not work. “The scientific data is really quite evident now about the lack of efficacy,” Fauci said on CNN on May 27, warning of potentially harmful side effects to the heart.



The reversal frustrated Navarro, a top trade adviser to Trump, and Steven Hatfill, a deputy and virologist, who strategized on how to get the FDA to reverse its decision, such using allies including Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), according to emails obtained by the panel.



In one instance, Navarro and Hatfill worked with a Michigan-based hospital system, Henry Ford Health, to bring pressure. For instance, Hatfill crafted a request letter that the health system could submit to the FDA, although he instructed the organization “NEVER mention the White House together with my name” in a May 2020 email to a physician leading the system’s work on hydroxychloroquine. Regardless, the FDA in August denied the hospital system’s request, having repeatedly warned about safety concerns related to the drug.



“FDA decided it will not renew the [emergency authorization] for hydroxy,” Hatfill wrote in an August 2020 email to himself that was obtained by the panel. “That’s OK because it was already arranged for Hahn to be pulled into Senator Johnson’s Committee to answer some questions. The Senator is pissed off and I wrote the questions -so it should be a good s---show.”



Through a spokesman, Hatfill acknowledged his work with Henry Ford Health and said his actions to encourage hydroxychloroquine were appropriate. “We never wrongly pressured anyone. We simply followed the science and the overwhelming evidence as detailed in several studies available at the time,” Hatfill wrote in a statement.



In a statement, Navarro also defended his advocacy for hydroxychloroquine, citing excerpts from his memoir, “In Trump Time,” which details his clashes with Fauci, Hahn and other officials over the drug. “The partisan House Select Subcommittee report ‘wrongly’ perpetuates one of the most deadly lies of the pandemic, namely that the safe and powerful therapeutic to treat COVID, hydroxychloroquine, was somehow dangerous.,” he wrote.

The FDA did not respond to specific questions about the report, but said in a statement that career staff had worked round-the-clock throughout the pandemic “to make the best, science-based decisions on behalf of the American people in a rapidly evolving and unprecedented public health emergency.”



Henry Ford Health said it would launch an investigation into the report’s allegations. “Like other health systems, we participated in a number of studies and clinical trials, including for hydroxychloroquine, during a time when there were no known treatments for COVID-19. When our own studies determined that hydroxychloroquine was not an effective treatment, we suspended the study and any use of the drug. … As always, the safety of our patients is our top priority.”

Alexa Henning, a spokeswoman for Johnson, wrote in a statement that the senator from Wisconsin was being wrongly attacked by the “COVID cartel.”
 

sho nuff

Footballguy
Interesting...that article seems to point not to democrats shifting some narrative...but to the hesitancy people had in the first place with Trump's promises of a vaccine pre-election...and that his response to covid both at the start, and with the vaccine were less about public health, and more about self serving him politically.
 

Doug B

Footballguy
Not sure, I've never met an "anti vaxxer".
Novak Djokovic's stance is not particularly rare. You'd have to pick around at definitions to call someone of his beliefs "not an anti-vaxxer". But then -- IMHO, it's fair-game shorthand to call someone who opposed ONLY the COVID vaccines, but approves of all others, an anti-vaxxer in today's social climate. Definition might fairly change again in a few years, and the definition was certainly different pre-COVID. But in the here and now? Yeah, opposing the COVID vaccines is fairly called, in short, "anti-vax".
 

moleculo

Footballguy
Not sure, I've never met an "anti vaxxer".
Novak Djokovic's stance is not particularly rare. You'd have to pick around at definitions to call someone of his beliefs "not an anti-vaxxer". But then -- IMHO, it's fair-game shorthand to call someone who opposed ONLY the COVID vaccines, but approves of all others, an anti-vaxxer in today's social climate. Definition might fairly change again in a few years, and the definition was certainly different pre-COVID. But in the here and now? Yeah, opposing the COVID vaccines is fairly called, in short, "anti-vax".
especially in the context of this thread.
 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
"it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state."
Nothing like this was said in the article.

I agree with Trump that the FDA was frustratingly slow in approving a drug that everybody knew was going to be approved. Lives were lost because of the delay.

The FDA has a bunch of rules about this stuff, so I don't know how much of the delay was discretionary. The process should be reviewed so that it doesn't take so long during the next pandemic.

Also, while I'm aware of no evidence that anyone at the FDA wanted to delay approval until after the election for political reasons, I think it's an appropriate subject for congressional inquiry.
 

Stealthycat

Footballguy
Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.

is this it ???


 

Shutout

Footballguy
Whenever this issue comes up, I feel like I'm having a debate with someone who just arrived on a spaceship from Mars. Because for the rest of us who were sentient in the fall of 2020, it was obvious that Trump was openly thirsting for a pre-election vaccine approval in order to help his re-election bid. That's what this House report is about. That was why Kamala Harris said she wouldn't trust a vaccine based solely on Trump's say-so.

Debating the issue without acknowledging that fact is like Garfield Minus Garfield.
As I recall, what we ended up with was the vaccine WAS ready before the election and then it was later admitted that they purposely withheld the information until after the election, knowing it WOULD likely impact the election.

Either side could feel slighted on that because it in fact would have swayed the public. There is no doubt but, to be fair, they SHOULD have released it and not held it when it was ready because of two simple reasons:
1. Not releasing it the moment it was ready undoubtedly cost some people their lives.
2. Not that you need another reason but, it was the right thing to do. The people that put it into motion should have been able to take credit for it.
 

Shutout

Footballguy
"it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state."
Nothing like this was said in the article.

I agree with Trump that the FDA was frustratingly slow in approving a drug that everybody knew was going to be approved. Lives were lost because of the delay.

The FDA has a bunch of rules about this stuff, so I don't know how much of the delay was discretionary. The process should be reviewed so that it doesn't take so long during the next pandemic.

Also, while I'm aware of no evidence that anyone at the FDA wanted to delay approval until after the election for political reasons, I think it's an appropriate subject for congressional inquiry.
https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/...delayed-covid-19-vaccine-until-after-election (discusses the incompetence, not the political agenda directly)
https://www.foxnews.com/media/nate-...pfizer-change-protocols-delay-vaccine-release (discusses political influence of delaying until after election)
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/16/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-authorization-election-429797 (Pfizer CEO saying they likely will know results in October but won't release until November, after election).
 

sho nuff

Footballguy
House panel: Trump sought to pressure FDA on covid vaccines, treatment

Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.
So predictable. 🙄
That the article would be misrepresented? Did you read it?
 

GoBirds

Footballguy
House panel: Trump sought to pressure FDA on covid vaccines, treatment

Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.
So predictable. 🙄
That the article would be misrepresented? Did you read it?
Back to trolling I see. Full stop, be better.
 

sho nuff

Footballguy
House panel: Trump sought to pressure FDA on covid vaccines, treatment

Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.
So predictable. 🙄
That the article would be misrepresented? Did you read it?
Back to trolling I see. Full stop, be better.
Asking you to opine on the actual article.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
House panel: Trump sought to pressure FDA on covid vaccines, treatment

Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.
So predictable. 🙄
That the article would be misrepresented? Did you read it?
Back to trolling I see. Full stop, be better.
Asking you to opine on the actual article.
Was it just a couple days ago I respectfully made clear I don’t value your trolling posting style? You clogged up threads and tried to deflect all blame….yet you can’t resist being a troll. Weird man, move on.
:potkettle:
 

Rubiobot

Footballguy
House panel: Trump sought to pressure FDA on covid vaccines, treatment

Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.
So predictable. 🙄
That the article would be misrepresented? Did you read it?
Back to trolling I see. Full stop, be better.
Asking you to opine on the actual article.
Was it just a couple days ago I respectfully made clear I don’t value your trolling posting style? You clogged up threads and tried to deflect all blame….yet you can’t resist being a troll. Weird man, move on.
Then why respond and clog up threads?
 

MAC_32

Footballguy
House panel: Trump sought to pressure FDA on covid vaccines, treatment

Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.
So predictable. 🙄
That the article would be misrepresented? Did you read it?
Back to trolling I see. Full stop, be better.
Asking you to opine on the actual article.
Was it just a couple days ago I respectfully made clear I don’t value your trolling posting style? You clogged up threads and tried to deflect all blame….yet you can’t resist being a troll. Weird man, move on.
Then why respond and clog up threads?
That's the objective.
 

GoBirds

Footballguy
House panel: Trump sought to pressure FDA on covid vaccines, treatment

Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.
So predictable. 🙄
That the article would be misrepresented? Did you read it?
Back to trolling I see. Full stop, be better.
Asking you to opine on the actual article.
Was it just a couple days ago I respectfully made clear I don’t value your trolling posting style? You clogged up threads and tried to deflect all blame….yet you can’t resist being a troll. Weird man, move on.
Then why respond and clog up threads?
That's the objective.
You 3 Sho cheerleaders are doing a great job of it. 😂
 

GoBirds

Footballguy
Whenever this issue comes up, I feel like I'm having a debate with someone who just arrived on a spaceship from Mars. Because for the rest of us who were sentient in the fall of 2020, it was obvious that Trump was openly thirsting for a pre-election vaccine approval in order to help his re-election bid. That's what this House report is about. That was why Kamala Harris said she wouldn't trust a vaccine based solely on Trump's say-so.

Debating the issue without acknowledging that fact is like Garfield Minus Garfield.
As I recall, what we ended up with was the vaccine WAS ready before the election and then it was later admitted that they purposely withheld the information until after the election, knowing it WOULD likely impact the election.

Either side could feel slighted on that because it in fact would have swayed the public. There is no doubt but, to be fair, they SHOULD have released it and not held it when it was ready because of two simple reasons:
1. Not releasing it the moment it was ready undoubtedly cost some people their lives.
2. Not that you need another reason but, it was the right thing to do. The people that put it into motion should have been able to take credit for it.
:goodposting:
 

dkp993

Footballguy
House panel: Trump sought to pressure FDA on covid vaccines, treatment

Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.
So predictable. 🙄
That the article would be misrepresented? Did you read it?
Back to trolling I see. Full stop, be better.
Asking you to opine on the actual article.
Was it just a couple days ago I respectfully made clear I don’t value your trolling posting style? You clogged up threads and tried to deflect all blame….yet you can’t resist being a troll. Weird man, move on.
Then why respond and clog up threads?
That's the objective.
Yep, it’s a feature not a bug.
 

GoBirds

Footballguy
Then why respond and clog up threads?
Such a shame he lets these petty disputes distract him from the intelligent, substantive arguments he would otherwise be making
Love how triggered you still are from having been proven wrong numerous times in the past.

Zero interest in the handful of posters that have spent 5 years in here cheerleading 100% liberal, it’s the others that have independent viewpoints that are interesting. Cute post though, enjoy that bubble. 😂
 

ekbeats

Footballguy
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The General

Footballguy
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
 

ekbeats

Footballguy
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing… It clearly criticizes Trump for rushing to get the vaccines out “before Election Day”. Thousands of people were dying. Ridiculous.

Behind the scenes, senior FDA officials concluded by September that they wanted to review two months of safety data after participants in clinical trials had received their second shot of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines — a decision that would delay the agency’s vaccine authorization decisions until after the election.

“We were not going to cut corners in our assessment,” Hahn told the panel, adding the agency had already streamlined a vaccine-authorization process that typically took far longer, and he feared fallout on vaccine confidence.
 
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The General

Footballguy
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?
 

ekbeats

Footballguy
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
 

sho nuff

Footballguy
Not a
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
if it were just about lives…why was he pushing for it before election day? Why pushing them to not do their safety studies?
seems fair criticism of his actions.
 

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