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The Great Covid Pivot: Trump now to blame for Vaccine Inneffectiveness (1 Viewer)

The General

Footballguy
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
What is wrong with this being pointed out? Is this made up or inaccurate?

Trump takes credit all the time for getting these things out in a short time frame.
 

The Commish

Footballguy
Shocked the article isn't what was originally asserted :lol:

That said, I don't know what the issue is here. Trump wanted the vaccine out faster and the FDA said they were going to follow their plan and test. Pushing to have things done quickly isn't a bad thing and pushing back saying that it's unsafe to cut corners isn't a bad thing. I can ignore the motive behind Trump's desire to push things out since getting it out as quickly as possible should be top of everyone's list. I don't see "fault" being placed with either side here.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
Then why respond and clog up threads?
Such a shame he lets these petty disputes distract him from the intelligent, substantive arguments he would otherwise be making
Love how triggered you still are from having been proven wrong numerous times in the past.

Zero interest in the handful of posters that have spent 5 years in here cheerleading 100% liberal, it’s the others that have independent viewpoints that are interesting. Cute post though, enjoy that bubble. 😂
I love how you live in this fantasy world where you supposedly "proved me wrong" despite the fact that you literally never post anything other than whines about the moderators and laughing emojis. (This you?) Whenever someone is naive enough to ask you a follow-up question or try get you to engage with the substance of their argument, you scurry away to some other thread with nary but a crying emoji.

Which, I predict, is exactly what you will do in response to this post. But hey, enjoy slaying those imaginary dragons. Truly a legend in your own mind.
 

GoBirds

Footballguy
Then why respond and clog up threads?
Such a shame he lets these petty disputes distract him from the intelligent, substantive arguments he would otherwise be making
Love how triggered you still are from having been proven wrong numerous times in the past.

Zero interest in the handful of posters that have spent 5 years in here cheerleading 100% liberal, it’s the others that have independent viewpoints that are interesting. Cute post though, enjoy that bubble. 😂
I love how you live in this fantasy world where you supposedly "proved me wrong" despite the fact that you literally never post anything other than whines about the moderators and laughing emojis. (This you?) Whenever someone is naive enough to ask you a follow-up question or try get you to engage with the substance of their argument, you scurry away to some other thread with nary but a crying emoji.

Which, I predict, is exactly what you will do in response to this post. But hey, enjoy slaying those imaginary dragons. Truly a legend in your own mind.
:potkettle:

Again, if you ever provided substance instead of 100% propaganda for Libs it may be interesting to engage but that day clearly will never come. Sorry, you and the others that do the same aren’t worth it but it is interesting to watch how rattled you get.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
Then why respond and clog up threads?
Such a shame he lets these petty disputes distract him from the intelligent, substantive arguments he would otherwise be making
Love how triggered you still are from having been proven wrong numerous times in the past.

Zero interest in the handful of posters that have spent 5 years in here cheerleading 100% liberal, it’s the others that have independent viewpoints that are interesting. Cute post though, enjoy that bubble. 😂
I love how you live in this fantasy world where you supposedly "proved me wrong" despite the fact that you literally never post anything other than whines about the moderators and laughing emojis. (This you?) Whenever someone is naive enough to ask you a follow-up question or try get you to engage with the substance of their argument, you scurry away to some other thread with nary but a crying emoji.

Which, I predict, is exactly what you will do in response to this post. But hey, enjoy slaying those imaginary dragons. Truly a legend in your own mind.
:potkettle:

Again, if you ever provided substance instead of 100% propaganda for Libs it may be interesting to engage but that day clearly will never come. Sorry, you and the others that do the same aren’t worth it but it is interesting to watch how rattled you get.
The good news is that, as much as you might try to construct your own reality, anyone can click on either of our names and view our most recent posts to see who actually makes substantive points and whose entire body of work consists of whines and insults. I engage with (and genuinely like) lots of conservatives here. I don't waste time debating you because you literally have nothing to say. Sorry-not-sorry if that makes you sad.
 

GoBirds

Footballguy
Then why respond and clog up threads?
Such a shame he lets these petty disputes distract him from the intelligent, substantive arguments he would otherwise be making
Love how triggered you still are from having been proven wrong numerous times in the past.

Zero interest in the handful of posters that have spent 5 years in here cheerleading 100% liberal, it’s the others that have independent viewpoints that are interesting. Cute post though, enjoy that bubble. 😂
I love how you live in this fantasy world where you supposedly "proved me wrong" despite the fact that you literally never post anything other than whines about the moderators and laughing emojis. (This you?) Whenever someone is naive enough to ask you a follow-up question or try get you to engage with the substance of their argument, you scurry away to some other thread with nary but a crying emoji.

Which, I predict, is exactly what you will do in response to this post. But hey, enjoy slaying those imaginary dragons. Truly a legend in your own mind.
:potkettle:

Again, if you ever provided substance instead of 100% propaganda for Libs it may be interesting to engage but that day clearly will never come. Sorry, you and the others that do the same aren’t worth it but it is interesting to watch how rattled you get.
The good news is that, as much as you might try to construct your own reality, anyone can click on either of our names and view our most recent posts to see who actually makes substantive points and whose entire body of work consists of whines and insults. I engage with (and genuinely like) lots of conservatives here. I don't waste time debating you because you literally have nothing to say. Sorry-not-sorry if that makes you sad.
Really, you seem to be wasting everyone’s time? I don’t need to construct my own reality, I don’t hide in an echo chamber just to hear everyone say what I want to hear and that my extreme views are normal. I agree, I have nothing to say to you, yet you can’t resist these little tantrums? Put me on ignore instead of these whiny posts maybe? Good luck!
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
Not sure, I've never met an "anti vaxxer".
IMHO, it's fair-game shorthand to call someone who opposed ONLY the COVID vaccines, but approves of all others, an anti-vaxxer in today's social climate.
There's a lot of people who would agree with you. I do not.
House panel: Trump sought to pressure FDA on covid vaccines, treatment

Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.
So predictable. 🙄
That the article would be misrepresented? Did you read it?
Back to trolling I see. Full stop, be better.
Asking you to opine on the actual article.
Was it just a couple days ago I respectfully made clear I don’t value your trolling posting style? You clogged up threads and tried to deflect all blame….yet you can’t resist being a troll. Weird man, move on.
Then why respond and clog up threads?
That is on purpose.
 

dkp993

Footballguy
Not a
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
if it were just about lives…why was he pushing for it before election day? Why pushing them to not do their safety studies?
seems fair criticism of his actions.
I can’t fathom any politician in Trumps position not doing the same. I despise the man as much as anyone but all politicians are concerned first with getting re-elected, everything else is secondary.
 

sho nuff

Footballguy
I can’t fathom any politician in Trumps position not doing the same. I despise the man as much as anyone but all politicians are concerned first with getting re-elected, everything else is secondary.
Im not sure...I think many would be pushing it for the sake of public health...to push for it as soon as safely possible. And would not be pushing so to be done before an election (at least not in any provable way). Trump was just more likely to say the quiet parts out loud...proving it was all about him and what was best for him vs. what was best for the people.
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
We
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
Both things can be done at the same time. We can give Trump credit for the vax rollout, and at the same time (if true) think the Election Day timeline is a bit sketchy and self-serving.
 

dkp993

Footballguy
I can’t fathom any politician in Trumps position not doing the same. I despise the man as much as anyone but all politicians are concerned first with getting re-elected, everything else is secondary.
Im not sure...I think many would be pushing it for the sake of public health...to push for it as soon as safely possible. And would not be pushing so to be done before an election (at least not in any provable way). Trump was just more likely to say the quiet parts out loud...proving it was all about him and what was best for him vs. what was best for the people.
I’m sure. But to be clear what I’m not saying is they’d push unsafe vaccines out for their own gain, I also don’t believe Trump would. But I’m certain any politician in that office upon hearing that “everything is looking good on the vaccine front and all signs are pointing to it being safe“ , the first question out of their mouths is “can we get it out before the election“.
 

The General

Footballguy
Not a
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
if it were just about lives…why was he pushing for it before election day? Why pushing them to not do their safety studies?
seems fair criticism of his actions.
I can’t fathom any politician in Trumps position not doing the same. I despise the man as much as anyone but all politicians are concerned first with getting re-elected, everything else is secondary.
Perhaps. I would want all this looked t and reviewed regardless of who is in charge. This is how things are made better.
 

Sand

Footballguy
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
What is wrong with this being pointed out? Is this made up or inaccurate?

Trump takes credit all the time for getting these things out in a short time frame.
I don't think there is anything wrong with point it out. But, at the same time, pointing out the FDA is a slow, ponderous bureaucracy that wasn't equipped to move at the speeds necessary is also fair.

In addition, what I come back to here, regardless of all the machinations, is the question - "did this affect the outcome?" The answer is obviously no. We would have gotten the same vaccines that we got with the same efficiacies we got. This argument is over a distinction without a difference.
 

dkp993

Footballguy
Not a
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
if it were just about lives…why was he pushing for it before election day? Why pushing them to not do their safety studies?
seems fair criticism of his actions.
I can’t fathom any politician in Trumps position not doing the same. I despise the man as much as anyone but all politicians are concerned first with getting re-elected, everything else is secondary.
Perhaps. I would want all this looked t and reviewed regardless of who is in charge. This is how things are made better.
Sure, but for anyone to be clutching their pearls at a politician looking to leverage something good for their own upcoming election seems pretty disconnected to me.
 

The General

Footballguy
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
What is wrong with this being pointed out? Is this made up or inaccurate?

Trump takes credit all the time for getting these things out in a short time frame.
I don't think there is anything wrong with point it out. But, at the same time, pointing out the FDA is a slow, ponderous bureaucracy that wasn't equipped to move at the speeds necessary is also fair.

In addition, what I come back to here, regardless of all the machinations, is the question - "did this affect the outcome?" The answer is obviously no. We would have gotten the same vaccines that we got with the same efficiacies we got. This argument is over a distinction without a difference.
I agree all governmental agencies should be scrutinized and reviewed all the time. Especially so after something like this.

How do you feel about the pressuring to use the snake oils that Trump admin was pushing?
 

The General

Footballguy
Not a
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
if it were just about lives…why was he pushing for it before election day? Why pushing them to not do their safety studies?
seems fair criticism of his actions.
I can’t fathom any politician in Trumps position not doing the same. I despise the man as much as anyone but all politicians are concerned first with getting re-elected, everything else is secondary.
Perhaps. I would want all this looked t and reviewed regardless of who is in charge. This is how things are made better.
Sure, but for anyone to be clutching their pearls at a politician looking to leverage something good for their own upcoming election seems pretty disconnected to me.
People can make whatever determination they like from this info. It is simply being put out there as it should.

There will be political games played as always.

There is a delicate balance between allowing government bodies to properly allow experts to determine things safely and bureaucratic bloat slowing things down. This should constantly be reviewed.
 
Last edited:

Sand

Footballguy
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
What is wrong with this being pointed out? Is this made up or inaccurate?

Trump takes credit all the time for getting these things out in a short time frame.
I don't think there is anything wrong with point it out. But, at the same time, pointing out the FDA is a slow, ponderous bureaucracy that wasn't equipped to move at the speeds necessary is also fair.

In addition, what I come back to here, regardless of all the machinations, is the question - "did this affect the outcome?" The answer is obviously no. We would have gotten the same vaccines that we got with the same efficiacies we got. This argument is over a distinction without a difference.
I agree all governmental agencies should be scrutinized and reviewed all the time. Especially so after something like this.

How do you feel about the pressuring to use the snake oils that Trump admin was pushing?
I thought it was worth pushing to see if these common medicines helped, but should have been dropped once it became clear they didn't. At the time there was a mad scramble for effective therapeutics and medicines like ivermectin were very effective for other uses. It was a reasonable thought. Once the Rubicon between "possible medicine" to "snake oil" was crossed it should have been publicly dropped.
 

The General

Footballguy
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
What is wrong with this being pointed out? Is this made up or inaccurate?

Trump takes credit all the time for getting these things out in a short time frame.
I don't think there is anything wrong with point it out. But, at the same time, pointing out the FDA is a slow, ponderous bureaucracy that wasn't equipped to move at the speeds necessary is also fair.

In addition, what I come back to here, regardless of all the machinations, is the question - "did this affect the outcome?" The answer is obviously no. We would have gotten the same vaccines that we got with the same efficiacies we got. This argument is over a distinction without a difference.
I agree all governmental agencies should be scrutinized and reviewed all the time. Especially so after something like this.

How do you feel about the pressuring to use the snake oils that Trump admin was pushing?
I thought it was worth pushing to see if these common medicines helped, but should have been dropped once it became clear they didn't. At the time there was a mad scramble for effective therapeutics and medicines like ivermectin were very effective for other uses. It was a reasonable thought. Once the Rubicon between "possible medicine" to "snake oil" was crossed it should have been publicly dropped.
I agree with this. I feel like this House panel sheds light on how this was handled by all government officials involved. This is how this should all work IMO.

The point the OP made I believe is ridiculous.
 

ekbeats

Footballguy
Look, as much as I hate Trump, he was the perfect man to lead operation warp speed. As a businessman he is less bureaucratic and figures out a way to cut through the red tape. There are a lot of people in this very forum that laughed at him for suggesting that vaccines could be developed by the end of 2020. He got it done, and doing so he likely saved thousands of lives. And that’s just a fact.
 

ekbeats

Footballguy
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
What is wrong with this being pointed out? Is this made up or inaccurate?

Trump takes credit all the time for getting these things out in a short time frame.
I don't think there is anything wrong with point it out. But, at the same time, pointing out the FDA is a slow, ponderous bureaucracy that wasn't equipped to move at the speeds necessary is also fair.

In addition, what I come back to here, regardless of all the machinations, is the question - "did this affect the outcome?" The answer is obviously no. We would have gotten the same vaccines that we got with the same efficiacies we got. This argument is over a distinction without a difference.
I agree all governmental agencies should be scrutinized and reviewed all the time. Especially so after something like this.

How do you feel about the pressuring to use the snake oils that Trump admin was pushing?
I thought it was worth pushing to see if these common medicines helped, but should have been dropped once it became clear they didn't. At the time there was a mad scramble for effective therapeutics and medicines like ivermectin were very effective for other uses. It was a reasonable thought. Once the Rubicon between "possible medicine" to "snake oil" was crossed it should have been publicly dropped.
I agree with this. I feel like this House panel sheds light on how this was handled by all government officials involved. This is how this should all work IMO.

The point the OP made I believe is ridiculous.
Wait a minute, you actually believe that these house panels are non-partisan?
 

The General

Footballguy
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
What is wrong with this being pointed out? Is this made up or inaccurate?

Trump takes credit all the time for getting these things out in a short time frame.
I don't think there is anything wrong with point it out. But, at the same time, pointing out the FDA is a slow, ponderous bureaucracy that wasn't equipped to move at the speeds necessary is also fair.

In addition, what I come back to here, regardless of all the machinations, is the question - "did this affect the outcome?" The answer is obviously no. We would have gotten the same vaccines that we got with the same efficiacies we got. This argument is over a distinction without a difference.
I agree all governmental agencies should be scrutinized and reviewed all the time. Especially so after something like this.

How do you feel about the pressuring to use the snake oils that Trump admin was pushing?
I thought it was worth pushing to see if these common medicines helped, but should have been dropped once it became clear they didn't. At the time there was a mad scramble for effective therapeutics and medicines like ivermectin were very effective for other uses. It was a reasonable thought. Once the Rubicon between "possible medicine" to "snake oil" was crossed it should have been publicly dropped.
I agree with this. I feel like this House panel sheds light on how this was handled by all government officials involved. This is how this should all work IMO.

The point the OP made I believe is ridiculous.
Wait a minute, you actually believe that these house panels are non-partisan?
Everything involving politics will be partisan.

Do you think that how the process of how the vax was approved, how crap like ivercmatic or hyrdpchlocquine pills whatever else was being talked about should be reviewed. I do.

This is likely all going to happen again at some point we should aim to be better next time or at least not repeat mistakes that were made.
 

The General

Footballguy
Look, as much as I hate Trump, he was the perfect man to lead operation warp speed. As a businessman he is less bureaucratic and figures out a way to cut through the red tape. There are a lot of people in this very forum that laughed at him for suggesting that vaccines could be developed by the end of 2020. He got it done, and doing so he likely saved thousands of lives. And that’s just a fact.
The OP is suggesting that there is an effort to blame Trump for the vaccines being ineffective. At least that's how I took it. I would disagree with that.
 

sho nuff

Footballguy
I can’t fathom any politician in Trumps position not doing the same. I despise the man as much as anyone but all politicians are concerned first with getting re-elected, everything else is secondary.
Im not sure...I think many would be pushing it for the sake of public health...to push for it as soon as safely possible. And would not be pushing so to be done before an election (at least not in any provable way). Trump was just more likely to say the quiet parts out loud...proving it was all about him and what was best for him vs. what was best for the people.
I’m sure. But to be clear what I’m not saying is they’d push unsafe vaccines out for their own gain, I also don’t believe Trump would. But I’m certain any politician in that office upon hearing that “everything is looking good on the vaccine front and all signs are pointing to it being safe“ , the first question out of their mouths is “can we get it out before the election“.
This report seems to indicate Trump wanted the agencies to not extend their safety checks at all and push it out there regardless of safety it would seem...because that would help him.
I have zero doubt he cared little about safety and more about making himself look good.
Can we get it out before the election is far different than...get it out before the election, I don't care if you have not finished your safety checks. This appears he was more doing the latter.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
Two important point to keep in mind in terms of the timing of the vaccines release:

First, as evidenced by emails cited in the report, health officials were worried that if the approval process was seen as overly politicized or rushed, it would hamper uptake of the vaccine, which would cost lives. Now, one of my biggest criticisms of public health officials over the course of the pandemic has been their tendency to try to think like politicians and/or psychologists rather than simply focusing on their area of expertise. And certainly, if the vaccine were fully ready to go and they held it back solely because they didn't want to release it before the election, that would be terrible. But it doesn't sound like that's what happened. Instead, they tried to follow their standard processes, and as a result the approvals came post-election.

Is it possible they were a little too fastidious and could have gotten the vaccine out earlier? I don't know enough to say, but sure, it's certainly possible. But that brings me to my second point: We should always try to extend grace to anyone who has to make high-stakes decisions in an uncertain environment. It's easy to sit here in 2022, knowing the vaccines have produced negligible side effects, and say officials should have moved faster. But in the fall of 2020, they had to consider the downside risk of vaccine side effects, which could have been catastrophic. Think about how the J&J blood-clot issue among a small demographic group pretty much destroyed people's faith in that particular vaccine. Now imagine how bad it would have been if there had been widespread side effects among the mRNA vaccines. It might have killed the entire vaccine rollout in its crib. In that environment, even if overcautiousness was the wrong decision, it was certainly an understandable one.

I'm fully in favor of a clear-eyed look at everything that happened in the fall of 2020 to understand what mistakes we made and what we would want to do differently in the future. But the purpose shouldn't be to score political points in either direction, nor should we impose unrealistic standards on decision makers
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
Then why respond and clog up threads?
Such a shame he lets these petty disputes distract him from the intelligent, substantive arguments he would otherwise be making
Love how triggered you still are from having been proven wrong numerous times in the past.

Zero interest in the handful of posters that have spent 5 years in here cheerleading 100% liberal, it’s the others that have independent viewpoints that are interesting. Cute post though, enjoy that bubble. 😂
I love how you live in this fantasy world where you supposedly "proved me wrong" despite the fact that you literally never post anything other than whines about the moderators and laughing emojis. (This you?) Whenever someone is naive enough to ask you a follow-up question or try get you to engage with the substance of their argument, you scurry away to some other thread with nary but a crying emoji.

Which, I predict, is exactly what you will do in response to this post. But hey, enjoy slaying those imaginary dragons. Truly a legend in your own mind.
:potkettle:

Again, if you ever provided substance instead of 100% propaganda for Libs it may be interesting to engage but that day clearly will never come. Sorry, you and the others that do the same aren’t worth it but it is interesting to watch how rattled you get.
The good news is that, as much as you might try to construct your own reality, anyone can click on either of our names and view our most recent posts to see who actually makes substantive points and whose entire body of work consists of whines and insults. I engage with (and genuinely like) lots of conservatives here. I don't waste time debating you because you literally have nothing to say. Sorry-not-sorry if that makes you sad.
Really, you seem to be wasting everyone’s time? I don’t need to construct my own reality, I don’t hide in an echo chamber just to hear everyone say what I want to hear and that my extreme views are normal. I agree, I have nothing to say to you, yet you can’t resist these little tantrums? Put me on ignore instead of these whiny posts maybe? Good luck!
I'm sure it must be tough for you to be repeatedly reminded that you literally have nothing to add to any discussion. Feel free to put me on ignore if you don't want to have your widdle feewings hurt.

I also like how you pretend that your whining-and-insults routine is limited to me, even though you never make any arguments of substance to anyone else, either. Sad!

And by all means, please keep directing insults at others that are obvious projections of your own insecurities. Much like a certain former president you idolize.
 

GoBirds

Footballguy
Then why respond and clog up threads?
Such a shame he lets these petty disputes distract him from the intelligent, substantive arguments he would otherwise be making
Love how triggered you still are from having been proven wrong numerous times in the past.

Zero interest in the handful of posters that have spent 5 years in here cheerleading 100% liberal, it’s the others that have independent viewpoints that are interesting. Cute post though, enjoy that bubble. 😂
I love how you live in this fantasy world where you supposedly "proved me wrong" despite the fact that you literally never post anything other than whines about the moderators and laughing emojis. (This you?) Whenever someone is naive enough to ask you a follow-up question or try get you to engage with the substance of their argument, you scurry away to some other thread with nary but a crying emoji.

Which, I predict, is exactly what you will do in response to this post. But hey, enjoy slaying those imaginary dragons. Truly a legend in your own mind.
:potkettle:

Again, if you ever provided substance instead of 100% propaganda for Libs it may be interesting to engage but that day clearly will never come. Sorry, you and the others that do the same aren’t worth it but it is interesting to watch how rattled you get.
The good news is that, as much as you might try to construct your own reality, anyone can click on either of our names and view our most recent posts to see who actually makes substantive points and whose entire body of work consists of whines and insults. I engage with (and genuinely like) lots of conservatives here. I don't waste time debating you because you literally have nothing to say. Sorry-not-sorry if that makes you sad.
Really, you seem to be wasting everyone’s time? I don’t need to construct my own reality, I don’t hide in an echo chamber just to hear everyone say what I want to hear and that my extreme views are normal. I agree, I have nothing to say to you, yet you can’t resist these little tantrums? Put me on ignore instead of these whiny posts maybe? Good luck!
I'm sure it must be tough for you to be repeatedly reminded that you literally have nothing to add to any discussion. Feel free to put me on ignore if you don't want to have your widdle feewings hurt.

I also like how you pretend that your whining-and-insults routine is limited to me, even though you never make any arguments of substance to anyone else, either. Sad!

And by all means, please keep directing insults at others that are obvious projections of your own insecurities. Much like a certain former president you idolize.
Man, you look pathetic continuing this whining. Feel bad this was your Friday, whenever you can find the courage to move on we all thank you. :popcorn:
 

Max Power

Footballguy
Let's just pause for a second and consider what a variant is.

For covid pros here. What is the statistical (change) difference between a new variant of covid 19 and covid 2022?
 

Max Power

Footballguy
House panel: Trump sought to pressure FDA on covid vaccines, treatment

Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.
I'm as "anti-vax" as they come but if you want a spoiler alert, it was Pence and Meadows who pushed this through as a vaccine when it didnt meet the vaccine checklist requiremnts for the FDA.

The FDA, CDC, and covid task force failed everyone. This was on Trump's watch. People lied to his face and he went with it.
 

Insein

Footballguy
House panel: Trump sought to pressure FDA on covid vaccines, treatment

Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.
I'm as "anti-vax" as they come but if you want a spoiler alert, it was Pence and Meadows who pushed this through as a vaccine when it didnt meet the vaccine checklist requiremnts for the FDA.

The FDA, CDC, and covid task force failed everyone. This was on Trump's watch. People lied to his face and he went with it.
Oh believe me, Trump has taken part in this scam too and should take the proper amount of heat. I'm more fascinated with the shift towards "vaccine bad so Trump" when. It was Biden taking all the credit for it in 2021. By next year everyone is going to distance themselves from this disaster and act like it was everyone else fault including those who took it for what happened.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
House panel: Trump sought to pressure FDA on covid vaccines, treatment

Was only a matter of time. Once public sentiment for the jab fell below a certain threshold, "it's Trump's fault we got the vaccine in such a poor state." Nevermind who has been forcing it on our government workers, healthcare workers and military personnel for the last 18 months. It's Trump... Again.
I'm as "anti-vax" as they come but if you want a spoiler alert, it was Pence and Meadows who pushed this through as a vaccine when it didnt meet the vaccine checklist requiremnts for the FDA.

The FDA, CDC, and covid task force failed everyone. This was on Trump's watch. People lied to his face and he went with it.
Oh believe me, Trump has taken part in this scam too and should take the proper amount of heat. I'm more fascinated with the shift towards "vaccine bad so Trump" when. It was Biden taking all the credit for it in 2021. By next year everyone is going to distance themselves from this disaster and act like it was everyone else fault including those who took it for what happened.
I'm still missing something. What exactly has shifted? And what "disaster" are you referring to?
 

lazyike

Footballguy
Not a
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
if it were just about lives…why was he pushing for it before election day? Why pushing them to not do their safety studies?
seems fair criticism of his actions.
I can’t fathom any politician in Trumps position not doing the same. I despise the man as much as anyone but all politicians are concerned first with getting re-elected, everything else is secondary.
Liz Cheney is an exception. There may be a few other Republicans who voted to impeach that didn't win their primaries as well.
 
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BladeRunner

Footballguy
Guy searches for polls that confirm his biases. Immediately declares he's right and everyone supports him based on polls he found that confirmed his biases.
 
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Warblenager

Footballguy
Not a
See, as much as I dislike Trump, this revisionist history is complete garbage. Everyone in here wanted the vaccine asap, and Trump delivered. And the vaccines worked. They stopped working about 6 months ago with all the new variants. Plenty of articles on that out right now.

Most of the political hacks criticizing the “Trump vaccine” were some of the first to get it. Politics disgusts me at this point. They all suck.
I am not seeing the narrative blaming Trump or anyone for this.

3/4 of the articles I read are talking about the medicine oils.
The article in the OP and the House Hearing.
Those are talking about the administration and it’s relationship with the FDA.

What is being placed on Trump?

First paragraph:

Trump officials repeatedly stalled the Food and Drug Administration’s plan to extend safety studies of coronavirus vaccines in fall 2020, as President Donald Trump pressed the agency for a faster timeline so the vaccines could be authorized before Election Day, according to emails, text messages and interviews by a congressional panel probing the pandemic response.
if it were just about lives…why was he pushing for it before election day? Why pushing them to not do their safety studies?
seems fair criticism of his actions.
We all knew he was trying to ramrod it through regardless of ramifications. Pretty obvious at the time.
 

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