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The Homeless (1 Viewer)

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Don't you always wonder how it got that way?  What went wrong in their life?

We've all had to deal with..."hey buddy could you spare some change".  And if I have a few bucks, change, ok cool. But I'm dying to ask about what happened with them, how did they get in this mess?  

The one that gets me is when we see these people pushing around a stolen cart from Walmart/Target gathering up ....stuff. Piles of stuff.

Imagine actually having to worry about a meal, can't even fathom that. Where do they sleep?

There is a little Filipino guy here in town we all call Paquiao, he pushes a cart and will stop and do flips and martial arts kicks and punches, we see him all over town at all hours.  As far as I know nobody bugs the guy, guessing mid 20's.  Would love to find out his story, and did have a chance once when we both were at the recycle place. Why I didn't..???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kQlRQRGdfQ

 
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Epic Problem

Footballguy
Would love to find out his story, and did have a chance once when we both were at the recycle place. Why I didn't..???


Paquiao was probably just walking down the street that day, getting his Gymkata on and thinking to himself 'Man! I just wish that today was the day that something great finally happened to me'

Little did he know, it did.

 

OrtonToOlsen

Footballguy
Don't you always wonder how it got that way?  What went wrong in their life?

We've all had to deal with..."hey buddy could you spare some change".  And if I have a few bucks, change, ok cool. But I'm dying to ask about what happened with them, how did they get in this mess?  

The one that gets me is when we see these people pushing around a stolen cart from Walmart/Target gathering up ....stuff. Piles of stuff.

Imagine actually having to worry about a meal, can't even fathom that. Where do they sleep?

There is a little Filipino guy here in town we all call Paquiao, he pushes a cart and will stop and do flips and martial arts kicks and punches, we see him all over town at all hours.  As far as I know nobody bugs the guy, guessing mid 20's.  Would love to find out his story, and did have a chance once when we both were at the recycle place. Why I didn't..???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kQlRQRGdfQ
There’s a homeless guy around here that once had it all.  Then he lost it. Why?

He didn’t listen to an evangelical store clerk.

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Paquiao was probably just walking down the street that day, getting his Gymkata on and thinking to himself 'Man! I just wish that today was the day that something great finally happened to me'

Little did he know, it did.
Did you miss the part about we were both at the recylce place? 

Zeno....hey man,  I see you all over town. You do get around.

Paq....yeah.

Zeno...you interested in a job?

Paq....sure.

Zeno...you hungry, wanna grab a bite to eat and I'll run it down to ya....cool?

Paq....sounds good (as he kicks out at air)

After Carl's Jr, and me introducing Paquiao to my brother in law who has a crew of painters working for him.

Fast forward six months

Saw Paquiao driving around in a little MG,  had a tall blond next to him, when he saw me, he waved and smiled.  then a little karate chop.

 
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ZenoRazon

Footballguy
There’s a homeless guy around here that once had it all.  Then he lost it. Why?

He didn’t listen to an evangelical store clerk.
There are three kinds of store clerks.

1.young kid new to the work world. He obviously has nothing to say that will interest a grown man.

2.grown adult STILL stuck in this going nowhere job, seriously doubt their opinion makes much of a dent.

3.Old timer retired military, government, big business, just needing something to do.  He knows better than run off at the mouth, experience does that.

 

OrtonToOlsen

Footballguy
Did you miss the part about we were both at the recylce place? 

Zeno....hey man,  I see you all over town. You do get around.

Paq....yeah.

Zeno...you interested in a job?

Paq....sure.

Zeno...you hungry, wanna grab a bite to eat and I'll run it down to ya....cool?

Paq....sounds good (as he kicks out at air)

After Carl's Jr, and me introducing Paquiao to my brother in law who has a crew of painters working for him.

Fast forward six months

Saw Paquiao driving around in a little MG,  had a tall blond next to him, when he saw me, he waved and smiled.  then a little karate chop.
And that student's name?

Albert Einstein.

 
Don't you always wonder how it got that way?  What went wrong in their life?

We've all had to deal with..."hey buddy could you spare some change".  And if I have a few bucks, change, ok cool. But I'm dying to ask about what happened with them, how did they get in this mess?  

The one that gets me is when we see these people pushing around a stolen cart from Walmart/Target gathering up ....stuff. Piles of stuff.

Imagine actually having to worry about a meal, can't even fathom that. Where do they sleep?

There is a little Filipino guy here in town we all call Paquiao, he pushes a cart and will stop and do flips and martial arts kicks and punches, we see him all over town at all hours.  As far as I know nobody bugs the guy, guessing mid 20's.  Would love to find out his story, and did have a chance once when we both were at the recycle place. Why I didn't..???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kQlRQRGdfQ
My suggestion to you is to get out and do some volunteer work - at a shelter or with a rescue mission -- and actually talk to some of these people.

Not only will that be much more instructive than posting a MB thread, you'll do some good in people's lives and come to understand some of the hows and whys you seem to want to know about.

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
My suggestion to you is to get out and do some volunteer work - at a shelter or with a rescue mission -- and actually talk to some of these people.

Not only will that be much more instructive than posting a MB thread, you'll do some good in people's lives and come to understand some of the hows and whys you seem to want to know about.
How many threads do we have here about farting?  So not too concerned with threads on a messageboard.

And, I was curious about what others thought about the situation, one they all see all the time. 

A walk down the main drag in North Hollywood around midnight, a very unique experience, a must see actually. THUD....what was that?  Just some grocery store clerk hitting a would be theif in the back with a baseball bat, no big deal.  An obvious homeless guy. Nobody paying any attention at all,  they are numb to this kind of thing.

My trip is how much of the problem could have been avoided or do some of these people belong other places than the streets?  I have no credentials, I;m in no position to try and mentor people other than you must apply yourself,  learn something you can offer an employer. Much too late for that in most these cases.

I was serious about being able to get jobs however. Especially in the sales world but that takes passing tests and, well..............

 
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ZenoRazon

Footballguy
A little insight into the origins of this situation.

Wiki

Homelessness emerged as a national issue in the 1870s.[2] Many homeless people lived in emerging urban cities, such as New York City. Into the 20th century, the Great Depression of the 1930s caused a devastating epidemic of poverty, hunger, and homelessness. There were two million homeless people migrating across the United States. In the 1960s, the deinstitutionalization of patients from state psychiatric hospitals, according to the physician's medical libraries on use of pharmaceuticals, was a precipitating factor which seeded the population of people that are homeless.

The number of homeless people grew in the 1980s, as housing and social service cuts increased. After many years of advocacy and numerous revisions, President Ronald Reagan signed into law the McKinney–Vento Homeless Assistance Act in 1987; this remains the only piece of federal legislation that allocates funding to the direct service of homeless people. Over the past decades, the availability and quality of data on homelessness has improved considerably. About 1.56 million people, or about 0.5% of the U.S. population, used an emergency shelter or a transitional housing program between October 1, 2008 and September 30, 2009.[3] Homelessness in the United States increased after the Great Recession.

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Well this is just nonsense.
Go over to one of our fart threads and just start rambling on talking about everything but farting, watch what happens.

How long before somebody....hey, talk farting, we are talking farting here, ok?

 
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ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Look pal, OtO lived through the 60s...... twice. 
Then you'd think he'd learned a few things, stuff like stick to the topic of a thread, don't be a lowrent troll.

When he starts a thread watch how he acts when you totally ignore his topic with your own agenda.

 
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Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
My suggestion to you is to get out and do some volunteer work - at a shelter or with a rescue mission -- and actually talk to some of these people.




1
Thanks @Stompin' Tom Connors   I think it's ok to talk about it for real on a message board. Lots of good can come from understanding. 

If they want to make this a humor thread using homeless people as material, you guys please take that somewhere else. 

It's a great idea to talk to folks and see if you can learn more. I've found, surprise, most homeless people are pretty much like people. Some are more open to talking about their past than others. There are some with mental illness and that's a different case. But in my experience, I've found most to be pretty normal people that find themselves in a tough / desperate situation and they don't have the same kind of safety net support from family that I had / have. 

 

El Floppo

Footballguy
was walking down the street one night in college (a long time ago) here in NYC- lots of homeless on the streets back then, more than any time since. very typical to be asked for money, which I'd give if I knew the person (or at least knew that they were using the money to eat, not buy drugs). if I didn't know the person or have any money, I'd shuffle on.

so this one night I hear the usual "spare some change" from a guy I didn't register. kept shuffling. "spare some change?" a little more pleading and directed at me. kept shuffling. "hey floppo- spare some change?". I turned around- was a guy who had been the security guard at my dorm the year before. got to know him pretty well- enough to call him a friend. good artist, brought his wife and kid by very occasionally, but enough to where I got to know them a little. really nice dude. he had been fired by the college for something (probably bringing his wife and kid to work), took a construction job immediately after, broke his ankle before he was there long enough to qualify for workman's comp... lasted a couple months without a paycheck and was on the street asking for help after that. the look of abject shame on his face was gutting. don't remember if he was homeless or just broke. gave him everything I had in my wallet (probably a 20) and then never saw him again.

I think the line is awfully fine for many people between living paycheck to paycheck and homelessness... like this guy.

there's also a lot of people with mental problems, probably like pacquiao, who lack the capacity to hold a permanent job or lease.

the topic can easily head into politics... because of the inherent differences between the two parties about how to address these issues...

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
Thanks @Stompin' Tom Connors   I think it's ok to talk about it for real on a message board. Lots of good can come from understanding. 

If they want to make this a humor thread using homeless people as material, you guys please take that somewhere else. 

It's a great idea to talk to folks and see if you can learn more. I've found, surprise, most homeless people are pretty much like people. Some are more open to talking about their past than others. There are some with mental illness and that's a different case. But in my experience, I've found most to be pretty normal people that find themselves in a tough / desperate situation and they don't have the same kind of safety net support from family that I had / have. 
Thank you Joe.

So getting back to where I was at.

What is your take on this sad situation?

 

El Floppo

Footballguy
A little insight into the origins of this situation.

Wiki

Homelessness emerged as a national issue in the 1870s.[2] Many homeless people lived in emerging urban cities, such as New York City. Into the 20th century, the Great Depression of the 1930s caused a devastating epidemic of poverty, hunger, and homelessness. There were two million homeless people migrating across the United States. In the 1960s, the deinstitutionalization of patients from state psychiatric hospitals, according to the physician's medical libraries on use of pharmaceuticals, was a precipitating factor which seeded the population of people that are homeless.

The number of homeless people grew in the 1980s, as housing and social service cuts increased. After many years of advocacy and numerous revisions, President Ronald Reagan signed into law the McKinney–Vento Homeless Assistance Act in 1987; this remains the only piece of federal legislation that allocates funding to the direct service of homeless people. Over the past decades, the availability and quality of data on homelessness has improved considerably. About 1.56 million people, or about 0.5% of the U.S. population, used an emergency shelter or a transitional housing program between October 1, 2008 and September 30, 2009.[3] Homelessness in the United States increased after the Great Recession.
I'd have to check- but I think this law also changed the definition of who qualified to be institutionalized. I know that exactly at that time, the homeless population exploded- mostly with people who had been previously housed in mental institutions. those people, combined with the year crack hit NYC... made for crazy, crazy times.

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
The hell with it I should have known better, just stick to fart threads and movies.

Gone~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lock it Joe, thanks.

 
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Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Thank you Joe.

So getting back to where I was at.

What is your take on this sad situation?
Thanks.

It's a great idea to talk to folks and see if you can learn more. I've found, surprise, most homeless people are pretty much like people. Some are more open to talking about their past than others. There are some with mental illness and that's a different case. But in my experience, I've found most to be pretty normal people that find themselves in a tough / desperate situation and they don't have the same kind of safety net support from family that I had / have. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
was walking down the street one night in college (a long time ago) here in NYC- lots of homeless on the streets back then, more than any time since. very typical to be asked for money, which I'd give if I knew the person (or at least knew that they were using the money to eat, not buy drugs). if I didn't know the person or have any money, I'd shuffle on.

so this one night I hear the usual "spare some change" from a guy I didn't register. kept shuffling. "spare some change?" a little more pleading and directed at me. kept shuffling. "hey floppo- spare some change?". I turned around- was a guy who had been the security guard at my dorm the year before. got to know him pretty well- enough to call him a friend. good artist, brought his wife and kid by very occasionally, but enough to where I got to know them a little. really nice dude. he had been fired by the college for something (probably bringing his wife and kid to work), took a construction job immediately after, broke his ankle before he was there long enough to qualify for workman's comp... lasted a couple months without a paycheck and was on the street asking for help after that. the look of abject shame on his face was gutting. don't remember if he was homeless or just broke. gave him everything I had in my wallet (probably a 20) and then never saw him again.

I think the line is awfully fine for many people between living paycheck to paycheck and homelessness... like this guy.

there's also a lot of people with mental problems, probably like pacquiao, who lack the capacity to hold a permanent job or lease.

the topic can easily head into politics... because of the inherent differences between the two parties about how to address these issues...




3
Yes. Something like that is a super common story. 

And I believe the bolded is absolutely true. 

 

Arizona Ron

Footballguy
I did some outreach work years ago one summer.  I was always fascinated talking with people whenever I could get them to drop their guard and have a conversation.  Sure, there were people with obvious and sometimes mild mental health issues but the more common theme I personally witnessed was people slowly, over time accepted their new reality.  Evicted from a residence, staying with someone that no longer was an option, sleeping in a car until the car was no longer an option - less and less options available over time became the new reality. 

My ignorance was quickly checked by a man much older than me at the time.  I learned to stop starting any sentence with "why didn't/don't you just...?"; the options I have simply aren't available to other people. 

Some clearly wanted to stay "off the grid" and hide in plain sight while others who lived my city were worlds apart from me.  Once the acceptance of being homeless sets in, a lot of opportunities are immediately removed from getting assistance (no address) to getting a job.  

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
I did some outreach work years ago one summer.  I was always fascinated talking with people whenever I could get them to drop their guard and have a conversation.  Sure, there were people with obvious and sometimes mild mental health issues but the more common theme I personally witnessed was people slowly, over time accepted their new reality.  Evicted from a residence, staying with someone that no longer was an option, sleeping in a car until the car was no longer an option - less and less options available over time became the new reality. 

My ignorance was quickly checked by a man much older than me at the time.  I learned to stop starting any sentence with "why didn't/don't you just...?"; the options I have simply aren't available to other people. 

Some clearly wanted to stay "off the grid" and hide in plain sight while others who lived my city were worlds apart from me.  Once the acceptance of being homeless sets in, a lot of opportunities are immediately removed from getting assistance (no address) to getting a job.  
This. 100%. Thanks.

 

matuski

Footballguy
Did you miss the part about we were both at the recylce place? 

Zeno....hey man,  I see you all over town. You do get around.

Paq....yeah.

Zeno...you interested in a job?

Paq....sure.

Zeno...you hungry, wanna grab a bite to eat and I'll run it down to ya....cool?

Paq....sounds good (as he kicks out at air)

After Carl's Jr, and me introducing Paquiao to my brother in law who has a crew of painters working for him.

Fast forward six months

Saw Paquiao driving around in a little MG,  had a tall blond next to him, when he saw me, he waved and smiled.  then a little karate chop.
Paq and I go way back.  I call him "little P".

 

El Floppo

Footballguy
McKinney–Vento Homeless Assistance Act in 1987; this remains the only piece of federal legislation that allocates funding to the direct service of homeless people. Over the past decades, the availability and quality of data on homelessness has improved considerably. About 1.56 million people, or about 0.5% of the U.S. population, used an emergency shelter or a transitional housing program between October 1, 2008 and September 30, 2009.[3] Homelessness in the United States increased after the Great Recession.
I'd have to check- but I think this law also changed the definition of who qualified to be institutionalized. I know that exactly at that time, the homeless population exploded- mostly with people who had been previously housed in mental institutions. those people, combined with the year crack hit NYC... made for crazy, crazy times.
nm- it wasn't this act... it was Reagan's repeal of Carter's Mental Health System's Act that dumped the previously institutionalized onto the streets of the US, essentially over-night. 

 

matuski

Footballguy
All I know is that nobody is more grateful for simple acts of kindness than the homeless people I have met.  You don't appreciate what you've got until its gone I guess.

And @El Floppo nailed this:

I think the line is awfully fine for many people between living paycheck to paycheck and homelessness... like this guy.
There but for the grace of god go I.

 
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Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
nm- it wasn't this act... it was Reagan's repeal of Carter's Mental Health System's Act that dumped the previously institutionalized onto the streets of the US, essentially over-night. 
Thanks. This is obviously a real and important thing. Pushing mental health patients out to the streets is crushing. I'm not sure of answers there.

In my experience though, the majority of homeless people I encounter aren't affected by this. They aren't mentally ill or candidates for institutionalization. They're way more like what Arizona Ron described. A pretty regular guy that has a bad break (sometimes their own doing) and they run out of housing options or burn through friends and use up the couch surfing options. And then they're on the street. The tough part is it's a difficult cycle to break free from. It's tough to get a job when you haven't had a shower in 3 days. Or don't have a phone number to leave they can call you back for an interview. 

 

El Floppo

Footballguy
Thanks. This is obviously a real and important thing. Pushing mental health patients out to the streets is crushing. I'm not sure of answers there.

In my experience though, the majority of homeless people I encounter aren't affected by this. They aren't mentally ill or candidates for institutionalization. They're way more like what Arizona Ron described. A pretty regular guy that has a bad break (sometimes their own doing) and they run out of housing options or burn through friends and use up the couch surfing options. And then they're on the street. The tough part is it's a difficult cycle to break free from. It's tough to get a job when you haven't had a shower in 3 days. Or don't have a phone number to leave they can call you back for an interview. 
I think answers are political in nature... so will be tough to not get into here without the usual finger-pointing, closed ears and entrenched heels politics brings.

but yeah... I think we had a thread about the federal shut-down last month that had people wondering why these federal workers might be legitimately hurting without a couple of paychecks. and Ron covered a bunch of thoughts that make it so difficult for the cycle to be broken for so many people. add in homeless kids who have nowhere to do their homework, let alone get a decent sleep and meals... and the cycle perpetuates.

eta: and these are all knee-jerk comments from me... I'm really far from knowing much about this stuff past what I've experienced first hand. 

 
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STEADYMOBBIN 22

Footballguy
I did some outreach work years ago one summer.  I was always fascinated talking with people whenever I could get them to drop their guard and have a conversation.  Sure, there were people with obvious and sometimes mild mental health issues but the more common theme I personally witnessed was people slowly, over time accepted their new reality.  Evicted from a residence, staying with someone that no longer was an option, sleeping in a car until the car was no longer an option - less and less options available over time became the new reality. 

My ignorance was quickly checked by a man much older than me at the time.  I learned to stop starting any sentence with "why didn't/don't you just...?"; the options I have simply aren't available to other people. 

Some clearly wanted to stay "off the grid" and hide in plain sight while others who lived my city were worlds apart from me.  Once the acceptance of being homeless sets in, a lot of opportunities are immediately removed from getting assistance (no address) to getting a job.  
Add in a few arrests and it can all crumble fairly quickly.. 

 

ZenoRazon

Footballguy
I'll be damn.

What are the odds?

My 25 year old son Mason stopped in the grab a beer, visit.  I asked him the last time he saw Paq,  he.....you didn't hear, he's in jail for beating a guy up, one of his fellow homeless, I think.

The guy is around 5-7ish 140 pounds but tightly muscled, looks like a boxer, which.....hmmmm?

Curious now about what happens.

 

Epic Problem

Footballguy
I'll be damn.

What are the odds?

My 25 year old son Mason stopped in the grab a beer, visit.  I asked him the last time he saw Paq,  he.....you didn't hear, he's in jail for beating a guy up, one of his fellow homeless, I think.

The guy is around 5-7ish 140 pounds but tightly muscled, looks like a boxer, which.....hmmmm?

Curious now about what happens.
You could have stopped this. Good job

 

whoknew

Footballguy
Don't you always wonder how it got that way?  What went wrong in their life?

We've all had to deal with..."hey buddy could you spare some change".  And if I have a few bucks, change, ok cool. But I'm dying to ask about what happened with them, how did they get in this mess?  

The one that gets me is when we see these people pushing around a stolen cart from Walmart/Target gathering up ....stuff. Piles of stuff.

Imagine actually having to worry about a meal, can't even fathom that. Where do they sleep?

There is a little Filipino guy here in town we all call Paquiao, he pushes a cart and will stop and do flips and martial arts kicks and punches, we see him all over town at all hours.  As far as I know nobody bugs the guy, guessing mid 20's.  Would love to find out his story, and did have a chance once when we both were at the recycle place. Why I didn't..???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kQlRQRGdfQ
I can only tell you what I know about my city, but there are a lot of reasons people go homeless. Whether it be losing your job, substance abuse, major medical event, etc. The average homeless person is homeless for about 6 months. Then, often with help, they usually get back on their feet.

There are, of course, some percentage that is chronically homeless. Usually these people are severely mentally ill. And the US does not allocate adequate resources to helping them.

 

Epic Problem

Footballguy
Could it be a blessing in disguise?

He meets somebody in there who notices his physique, movements and turns him onto boxing, he sure looks the part.
My guess is that the job, the car and the blonde are a better scenario than jail, but since you’re such a big fan of bars and fighting, I can see why you’re optimistic about this

 

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