Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Could be 3rd & 38. The WR gets jammed 5½ yards past the line of scrimmage... automatic 1st down.
Kind of ridiculous, no?
Kind of ridiculous, no?
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The illegal contact rule seems too punitive (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Raider Nation
- Start date
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Yeah, but what's the alternative? 15 yards? Any time a DB might get beat on 3rd & 15+ it becomes worth it to take a mulligan and try again on 3rd and short.
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Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
10 yard penalty, replay the down. If it's good enough for holding on the offensive side of the ball, it's good enough on the defensive side as well.
As far as PI goes, I really wish the NFL would adopt the college rule of 15 yards max. PI as a spot foul made sense, oh, 40 years ago, when "pass interference" was defined as any play on which a defender actually broke one or more of the receiver's bones. With the modern-day interpretation of the rule, it's absurdly punitive.
As far as PI goes, I really wish the NFL would adopt the college rule of 15 yards max. PI as a spot foul made sense, oh, 40 years ago, when "pass interference" was defined as any play on which a defender actually broke one or more of the receiver's bones. With the modern-day interpretation of the rule, it's absurdly punitive.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Well if he gets beaten badly, the ball will likely be in the air. And if it's in the air, it becomes pass interference. 1st down anyway.
Yeah, I think more yardage without the automatic 1st down is reasonable.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Though the one tricky part about making DPI 15 yards is that every time a burner beats a corner badly, he's just gonna get dragged to the ground on purpose and live to fight another play.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Sue everybody!
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Buffaloes
Footballguy
is it just me or does it seem like this call is down a lot this year from years prior?
moleculo
Footballguy
Touchdown There
Footballguy
If the penalty is so steep why don't the defenders stop raping the wrs?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Nope, raping = all contact past 5 yards. Simple as this, the db thinks he can sneak in all the unwanted touching. The wr does not like the illegal touching and has told the db NO very clearly, but dB's continue their unwanted advances. No means no.
Nero
Footballguy
I think its perfect the way it is. The double move is the reason. If a DB bites on the out and the WR runs by him, he is going to grab him every time if he knows there is no safety over the top. The ball is usually not in the air when the DB grabs, so its illegal contact. 15 yards and a TD is not enough for what is probably a TD. I think the automatic 1st down is the best compromise.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Nero
Footballguy
Its the same result, but sometimes the DB may be in position to jam the WR again so he can recover, in which case it would not be holding.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Looks like you guys are overthinking this. Just look at the college rules. They get it. And you don't see any of the obscene PI plays that some people argue would occur with a move towards the college rule.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Pass interference should remain a spot foul but it has to be reviewable. It's arguably the most influential penalty given the distance that can be awarded.
As for illegal contact, it shouldn't be called within 10 yards and it should be a 10 yard penalty without automatic first down. Calling that beyond 5 yards from the LOS is silly.
As for illegal contact, it shouldn't be called within 10 yards and it should be a 10 yard penalty without automatic first down. Calling that beyond 5 yards from the LOS is silly.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
This is why what Brett Favre did in his career to me is more impressive than Manning or Brady (or Rodgers for that matter). You can't hit a QB above the shoulders or below the knees. You can't hit a reciever over the middle and give them fear. You can't touch them after 5 yards. You can't evenly battle for a ball in the air. I'd love to see a stat of how many penalty first downs happen now as opposed to 2004, 1994, and 1984. It artificially boosts all stats. What Jerry Rice did is far more impressive than anything Calvin or Andre Johnson did because he had to be sooooo much better than the DB to do his damage.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
And here is where the thread takes the massive turn for the worse
DropKick
Footballguy
I'll do my best to degrade it beyond recognition...
I can see removing the automatic first down for illegal contact. The flip side is, with a lesser penalty, defenders can be more aggressive. However, it is clear that the league wants offense.
What bothers me more is the inconsistency in how the calls are made, either across crews or during the play-offs and especially the SB.
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
DropKick
Footballguy
This is a good point and is really the way it was when the rule was not "enforced" to the letter of the rule book.
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
I think the rule should make every QB a super star even the ones like Geno. You are telling me in a game when the QB knows the route and knows the CB cant bump a WR they are still throwing as many incomplete passes and interceptions as they are? It shows which QBs are talented with their arm like who is more accurate adn who can read the defenses to know the route to throw.
Why do you think guys like Tannehill even have completed 70%+ of his passes the last 5 games?
Why do you think guys like Tannehill even have completed 70%+ of his passes the last 5 games?
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
No, they are the highest in the 6 years that data are available. 2.43 per game this year. http://www.nflpenalties.com/
2013: 2.199
2012: 2.404
2011: 2.281
2010: 2.307
2009: 2.06
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
You realize that Brett Favre and Peyton Manning's careers have a substantial amount of overlap, right?
It's not like we're talking about a guy that played in 1960 vs a guy that started in 2012 here.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
thanks, it was obviously just me then.
I see why I thought it was lower. The team I follow is tied for the least holding calls in its favor :(
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CalBear
Footballguy
We have plenty of data that this isn't what happens. I present as evidence, the entire NCAA football video library.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
You know why people don't like soccer? Very little offense.
What you guys are missing is that the rule allows for all the jamming you want at the Los. The db can jam or run w the wr. If he sucks at jamming at the line, then he better have 4.4 speed and be able to ride a hip.
I think the refs have been unsually good this year. Byproduct of instant replay and challenge, forces the refs to call it fair or they look real bad on national TV when overturned.
What you guys are missing is that the rule allows for all the jamming you want at the Los. The db can jam or run w the wr. If he sucks at jamming at the line, then he better have 4.4 speed and be able to ride a hip.
I think the refs have been unsually good this year. Byproduct of instant replay and challenge, forces the refs to call it fair or they look real bad on national TV when overturned.
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Buffaloes
Footballguy
what is the most popular sport in the world?
do you know why people don't like Arena football?
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Be careful comparing what a walk-on corner at San Jose State does to an NFL player. If the college rule was instituted in the NFL, CBs would be taught to molest the WR every time they get beaten.
CalBear
Footballguy
Don't be absurd.
You're suggesting that there are a lot of times where, more than 15 yards downfield, a cornerback who is not already beaten, realizes he's beaten, and is still close enough to the receiver to tackle him, but not close enough to make a play on the ball.
It just doesn't come up. Like I said, we have plenty of film on this. We're not comparing NFL players with walk-on corners at San Jose State, we're comparing NFL players with the same exact players when they were in college.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Not buying it.
CalBear
Footballguy
Were you one of the people who said that when they changed the rule on pushing receivers out of bounds, that the DBs would just grab the receivers in the air and carry them to the sidelines? The DBs on your planet really are pretty amazing, for guys who can't make plays on the ball.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
No?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
If my reasoning is flawed, then why hasn't this no-brainer college rule been instituted?
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I think the reason it works in college is because the talent differential can be so large in college. When a college corner gets beat by a receiver he is so far away he can't commit PI. In the NFL when a corner is beat it is by a step or 2 and he can still reach out and grab the receiver.
Like they say about a college quarterback vs an NFL quarterback. In college you throw to the open guy, in the NFL you throw the guy open.
Like they say about a college quarterback vs an NFL quarterback. In college you throw to the open guy, in the NFL you throw the guy open.
CalBear
Footballguy
Because people don't like change. I'm sure if the situation were reversed, NFL fans would be arguing that the college rule is ridiculous, totally changes the game on plays where the WR wasn't going to catch the ball anyway.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Exactly. CB just enjoys arguing. 
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I believe that Kirwin and Polian, two former NFL GMs, also believe the NFL should refine the PI rules to the college rules (yes, an appeal to authority).
I also agree that these penalties should be reviewable.
The backup CB at SJ state argument is silly, at best.
I also agree that these penalties should be reviewable.
The backup CB at SJ state argument is silly, at best.
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Touchdown There
Footballguy
Drinking beerBuffaloes said:
Buffaloes
Footballguy
Yeah this feels like hoops, down four with five seconds left, just don't foul on the three point shot.
I prefer any kind of hitting except to the head or dirty. Let the league evolve into lots of Mike Evans and DBs have to be bigger and stronger too. Ya know how you play a pickup game of hoops and some dope calls foul every time even if you about breathe on him? That guy is making the NFLs rules about WRs.
The easiest way to characterize how I want a game called is-call the WRs and CBs like you do the TEs and Safeties. Same field, same rules, yet every single game they have very different standards as far as what's acceptable contact. Other than Calvin, no WR has had as much contact as the worst TE in the NFL and half of them would probably whine on the sideline if they did.
