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The League From Which "Twisted" Was Removed (1 Viewer)

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mlball77

Footballguy
I will try to keep this relatively brief, but I am often verbose (warning). I am the Commish this league that Tom C. (Twisted) was kicked out of (by me). Tom is a very competitive and knowledgeable owner and I told him I appreciated that fact. Tom put together a very respectable team, I won't argue that. The issue is his behavior. The league policy is that rule changes are up to the Commish's discretion, but that the Commish will allow some major rule changes to be put up to a vote (not always decided by a simple majority though). That said, I have many issues up for vote in the offseason and I FREQUENTLY ask for input and suggestions from the league. Tom brought up the idea of increasing keepers going into next season. I had long considered this idea already, but explained to Tom that it wouldn't be done in this offseason, but that we could vote this offseason to increase the number of keepers taken from 2005 into 2006. I told him this one season buffer was necessary for this type of rule change because of two reasons. 1 - Some teams have already structured their teams around the amount of keepers we currently have. To change this would hurt their teams drastically in some circumstances. 2- Some teams have traded away some of their talent already because they are 0-5 or whatever and have started to stockpile draft picks for 05. If we were to increase keepers now for next season, these already struggling teams that stockpiled picks would have it even rougher because the picks they thought they were getting would now be moved back a round or two based on the number of additional keepers the league would add. --- This change would hurt the integrity of the league crush the already weakened teams that are not deep as is or teams that traded for picks with the assumption that they would have more available to chose from in the 2005 draft. I also let Tom know that I simply would not let every issue that every owner brings up be voted on. This threatens league integrity and makes the league more about rules and voting than fantasy football. I am the administrator of the league… I'll take care of the administrative issues (but asking for input on many issues), the other owners can simply enjoy the league without all of the work I put into it… if they don't like the league, they are able to exit just as they were able to enter. Let me make clear a few things:1. This league cost me $60 to start at Fanball. I only ASKED for $5 from each owner to help cover this fee and told them that if they were unable or unwilling to send me $5 that I would be happy to keep them in the league. I got a total of $30 dollars… five of it from Tom… and I thanked he and every other owner that WILLINGLY pitched in. That said, I will be returning Tom's $5. 2. The thread I started in my league where this incident started, was asking the league for their input on playoff structure and division structure for future years. I was getting some input on those issues. Tom gave some input on those issues than brought up the issue of increasing keepers. I explained to him how it would be counterproductive and how this league did not operate in a simple majority fashion. I told him that its not a democracy… even though I will put some issues up for league vote. I explained that when he joined the league, he entered my fantasy football kingdom, in which I ruled. I try to be very fair and even handed with my approach… as all of the other owners in the league are saying currently. Tom just didn't get it. His concern was with immediately increasing the number of keepers because he wanted to keep "his WR core together."3. My team was 14-1 in the regular season last year and is 4-1 thus far this season. I have a very deep team and am considered on of the front-runners in our league. Increasing the number of keepers immediately would HELP ME. But its bad for the league… I explained this to Tom… but he was concerned with keeping his WR core together.4. There have been several complaints about Tom's behavior from folks in my league over the past two seasons and Tom has been in a few verbal skirmishes this season already. I have given him every benefit of the doubt to get along with the rest of the league, but it seems he is incapable. 5. I told Tom why his issue wouldn't be voted on and asked him to drop the issue if he generally liked the league and wanted to stay in it. He kept pushing the issue. He then started with the name calling and insinuations…. Which seems to be commonplace for him. I asked him to stop with such behavior again or I'd have to remove him from the league, but that I greatly preferred to keep him on board. He replied to tell me that, "e threats are for punk kids" and made a couple of other rude comments toward me. I then removed him from the league. Our league policy states that owners may be removes for poor conduct. Tom was rude to me and others on many occasions.6. I kept all of my comments to Tom relatively respectful and straightforward. Tom at many points of this ordeal resorted to namecalling etc. I responded with more professional behavior… of course, Tom was rude again. Tom left me little choice and had become counter productive to the league. After I let him go and informed the rest of the league, I promptly received 5-6 responses saying that it was the right thing to do… and this was within 30 minutes of letting him go. Sorry this ran on so long… its been a bunch of drama that I really wanted to avoid, but Tom was concerned with keeping his "great" team together. We disagreed on how a league should be run and he couldn't let it go. So I was forced to remove him. Maybe you think I went overboard, but many of you haven't had to deal with Tom in a league. Its not pleasant. Ask the other members of my league. He is a hard guy to deal with.I mean no real offense to Tom here. Like I mentioned before, the guy is active and knowledgeable… he knows his stuff. He is simply rude and abrasive. I think its better for both he and the league that he is no longer in it.Thanks for your time.Matt

 

pgreenfan

Footballguy
Just a suggestion... why not give him another chance. Admit that you both acted like children to some extent. Start over.

 

mlball77

Footballguy
One more quick thing. As soon as I informed the league that Tom would no longer be a part, many of them quickly came up with a few suggestions as to replacements. It seems they like the league enough to ask their friends and coworkers to join. Two of the owners in the league acutally said they talk about how great the league is at work and have got said co-worker already feeling like he has a vested interest in the league.By no means am I or my league perfect. But I try to be fair and straightforward with everyone. And I do my best to keep things friendly and fun... while still competitive. Matt

 

mlball77

Footballguy
Just a suggestion... why not give him another chance. Admit that you both acted like children to some extent. Start over.
Tom has been rude and abrasive repeatedly and personally insutled several owners in the league. This isn't a one time occurrence. I gave him several chances to "get along". He can disagree with how I run things... thats absolutely fine. I ask people in my league for suggestions and input. However, Tom does not dictate rule changes or what will be voted on like he was attempting. That is my job as Commish. Tom disagreeing with me is not the issue... his BEHAVIOR is. He would not drop the issue upon my repeated request and started calling me names etc. I couldn't let that continue... its bad for the league.
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
One more quick thing. As soon as I informed the league that Tom would no longer be a part, many of them quickly came up with a few suggestions as to replacements. It seems they like the league enough to ask their friends and coworkers to join. Two of the owners in the league acutally said they talk about how great the league is at work and have got said co-worker already feeling like he has a vested interest in the league.By no means am I or my league perfect. But I try to be fair and straightforward with everyone. And I do my best to keep things friendly and fun... while still competitive. Matt
While I agree with your position on the keepers, I find that a democracy based league is better than a dictatorship. In the league I commish, unless league integrity is at stake (as it was with your league), all rule change votes take place in the off season, and anyone can call a vote for changes (within reason). I do have some discretionary latitude when deciding what's within reason.
 

mlball77

Footballguy
Yeah, I appologize for coming here with all of this (if you are bored with it etc.). I just wanted to set the record straight... thats all.

 

mlball77

Footballguy
While I agree with your position on the keepers, I find that a democracy based league is better than a dictatorship. In the league I commish, unless league integrity is at stake (as it was with your league), all rule change votes take place in the off season, and anyone can call a vote for changes (within reason). I do have some discretionary latitude when deciding what's within reason.
That is basically my stance as well. I try to make most signigicant rule changes a matter of voting... but not in all cases. I have discretion. I can't have the league vote on every issue that every owner mentions... we'd be voting all year long. So I the "ruler" of the league in that regard... but I am constantly asking for input on issues.
 

mlball77

Footballguy
I explained that when he joined the league, he entered my fantasy football kingdom, in which I ruled.
:shock: :popcorn:
Please be sure to take this in the context of the fact that I constantly ask for input and have several issues VOTED on in the offseason... but the bottom line is that I am the Commish and the buck stops with me. I have the OBLIGATION to use discretion as to what to allow the league to vote on... my objective is to keep the integrity of the league intact and not let the "mob rule." If 8 owners want a rule change that will greatly help their teams but will clearly hurt 4-5 very badly, should I as Commish allow those 8 to have their way at the risk of losing 4-5 owners and having the league destroyed... thats silly. I have the obligation to step in and use my all powerful commish powers to prevent such a thing.
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
While I agree with your position on the keepers, I find that a democracy based league is better than a dictatorship. In the league I commish, unless league integrity is at stake (as it was with your league), all rule change votes take place in the off season, and anyone can call a vote for changes (within reason). I do have some discretionary latitude when deciding what's within reason.
That is basically my stance as well. I try to make most signigicant rule changes a matter of voting... but not in all cases. I have discretion. I can't have the league vote on every issue that every owner mentions... we'd be voting all year long. So I the "ruler" of the league in that regard... but I am constantly asking for input on issues.
This is the second year of my league and we haven't had too many votes for rule changes. A few, but not a lot. I get the feeling you will not allow most voting requests. Like I said, a democracy is better than a dictatorship.
 

mlball77

Footballguy
While I agree with your position on the keepers, I find that a democracy based league is better than a dictatorship.  In the league I commish, unless league integrity is at stake (as it was with your league), all rule change votes take place in the off season, and anyone can call a vote for changes (within reason).  I do have some discretionary latitude when deciding what's within reason.
That is basically my stance as well. I try to make most signigicant rule changes a matter of voting... but not in all cases. I have discretion. I can't have the league vote on every issue that every owner mentions... we'd be voting all year long. So I the "ruler" of the league in that regard... but I am constantly asking for input on issues.
This is the second year of my league and we haven't had too many votes for rule changes. A few, but not a lot. I get the feeling you will not allow most voting requests. Like I said, a democracy is better than a dictatorship.
I took suggestions after last season and had the league vote on 7 issues in the offseason... 3 of which passed.I currently have a list of about 8-9 issues that I am considering for a vote this offseason... that list will likely build... so I'll probably widdle it down a bit... but several key issues will be voted on this offseason. What Tom was asking for would potentially really hurt a few teams so a few could really benefit. I did not want to lose a few teams over such a vote.
 
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Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
I explained that when he joined the league, he entered my fantasy football kingdom, in which I ruled.
:shock: :popcorn:
Please be sure to take this in the context of the fact that I constantly ask for input and have several issues VOTED on in the offseason... but the bottom line is that I am the Commish and the buck stops with me. I have the OBLIGATION to use discretion as to what to allow the league to vote on... my objective is to keep the integrity of the league intact and not let the "mob rule." If 8 owners want a rule change that will greatly help their teams but will clearly hurt 4-5 very badly, should I as Commish allow those 8 to have their way at the risk of losing 4-5 owners and having the league destroyed... thats silly. I have the obligation to step in and use my all powerful commish powers to prevent such a thing.
that's fine...I don't think simple majority should rule anyway in league decisions.just seemed like your ego was pretty big from that one particular quote.as most people know, being a commish is a thankless job to begin with. Talking about the league as your kingdom probably isn't going to help matters much.
 
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falconeyed

Footballguy
I explained that when he joined the league, he entered my fantasy football kingdom, in which I ruled.
:shock: :popcorn:
This explains the entire problem.Matt, you're a tool. If you're going to run a league like a dictator, then the league is probably worth little to nothing, despite your own opinion to the contrary.Twisted, you're equally a tool. Thank God my dynasty league is a grown-up league.That's my $.02.
 
M

mojorizin

Guest
I explained that when he joined the league, he entered my fantasy football kingdom, in which I ruled.
:shock: :popcorn:
I have no idea how to make one of those 'sig' thingamabobs, but I think I just found one.THAT kids, is commishionin'!
 

mlball77

Footballguy
I explained that when he joined the league, he entered my fantasy football kingdom, in which I ruled.
:shock: :popcorn:
This explains the entire problem.Matt, you're a tool. If you're going to run a league like a dictator, then the league is probably worth little to nothing, despite your own opinion to the contrary.Twisted, you're equally a tool. Thank God my dynasty league is a grown-up league.That's my $.02.
I was making a larger point... did you read the rest of my post?Thanks for the calling me a name and that saying that your league is an "adult" league.
 

Bluegrassman

Footballguy
I explained that when he joined the league, he entered my fantasy football kingdom, in which I ruled.
:shock: :popcorn:
This explains the entire problem.Matt, you're a tool. If you're going to run a league like a dictator, then the league is probably worth little to nothing, despite your own opinion to the contrary.Twisted, you're equally a tool. Thank God my dynasty league is a grown-up league.That's my $.02.
Is it one of those "grown up" leagues where all of the "grown ups" call each other 'tools' and whatnot. You know, basic immature "grown up" behavior... :thumbdown:
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
I explained that when he joined the league, he entered my fantasy football kingdom, in which I ruled.
:shock: :popcorn:
This explains the entire problem.Matt, you're a tool. If you're going to run a league like a dictator, then the league is probably worth little to nothing, despite your own opinion to the contrary.Twisted, you're equally a tool. Thank God my dynasty league is a grown-up league.That's my $.02.
Is it one of those "grown up" leagues where all of the "grown ups" call each other 'tools' and whatnot. You know, basic immature "grown up" behavior... :thumbdown:
I guess I would rather be called a "tool" than "stool". I have a sudden urge to poop. :bag:
 
M

mojorizin

Guest
I explained that when he joined the league, he entered my fantasy football kingdom, in which I ruled.
:shock: :popcorn:
This explains the entire problem.Matt, you're a tool. If you're going to run a league like a dictator, then the league is probably worth little to nothing, despite your own opinion to the contrary.Twisted, you're equally a tool. Thank God my dynasty league is a grown-up league.That's my $.02.
Is it one of those "grown up" leagues where all of the "grown ups" call each other 'tools' and whatnot. You know, basic immature "grown up" behavior... :thumbdown:
I guess I would rather be called a "tool" than "stool". I have a sudden urge to poop. :bag:
Aha! We found a lurker!'sup Najeh?
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
I explained that when he joined the league, he entered my fantasy football kingdom, in which I ruled.
:shock: :popcorn:
This explains the entire problem.Matt, you're a tool. If you're going to run a league like a dictator, then the league is probably worth little to nothing, despite your own opinion to the contrary.Twisted, you're equally a tool. Thank God my dynasty league is a grown-up league.That's my $.02.
Is it one of those "grown up" leagues where all of the "grown ups" call each other 'tools' and whatnot. You know, basic immature "grown up" behavior... :thumbdown:
I guess I would rather be called a "tool" than "stool". I have a sudden urge to poop. :bag:
Aha! We found a lurker!'sup Najeh?
I'm still laughing :D Oh God, my side hurts :lol:
 

Quasimoto

Footballguy
I explained that when he joined the league, he entered my fantasy football kingdom, in which I ruled.
:shock: :popcorn:
I have no idea how to make one of those 'sig' thingamabobs, but I think I just found one.THAT kids, is commishionin'!
I wouldn't get within 10 miles of a league who's commish took that attitude. Some people commish because it's a chore that has to be done. Some people commish because they get off on it. I've got no use for the latter. The primary purpose of any commish should be to make sure all of the league's ducks are in a row, and, most importantly, to play his own team.
 
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