drunkenmonks
Footballguy
Do you guys think Rey Maualuga would be worth the 1st overall?
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=owXgLCbw5YU
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=owXgLCbw5YU
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The Lions are on the clock (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter drunkenmonks
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drunkenmonks
Footballguy
They say defense wins championships... and the Lions have more holes on defense.
They should really go all D. Play great defense, your offense will come. Example... Titans. They need to get some play makers on defense, get a QB that can manage a game for a few seasons until you can get your hands on a good QB. They did something right, because with good defensive picks, and offensive linemen they can be going 8-8. Kevin Smith looks promising... if you can build an O-line and give him some holes with some stops on defense... you can get a couple of W's.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
To me, with two potential franchise OT in the draft in Oher and Smith, going offensive tackle is a no-brainer.
The Lions offensive line was beyond awful this season. They lost four quarterbacks to injury, and at least two of them (Kitna and Stanton) were hurt from taking big hits. Throw a rookie QB behind what they got now, and he won't have much of a chance to survive, much less develop.
The Lions offensive line was beyond awful this season. They lost four quarterbacks to injury, and at least two of them (Kitna and Stanton) were hurt from taking big hits. Throw a rookie QB behind what they got now, and he won't have much of a chance to survive, much less develop.
Footballhead
WWPRD?
First they need to move out of the town called Detroit.
Die
Footballguy
Why? The city of Detroit hasn't seemed to have harmed the reigning Stanley Cup champions.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
PRAE
Footballguy
Great fans in Michigan/Detroit...just need a team that can compete!!I agree, Detroit is strong in 2 out of the 4 major American sports. It's not the location, just the ownership. Ford has this "I don't really care attitude", it's almost like he's fine with the Lions being on the back burner of his "give-a-damn" stove. If he sells this team to a dedicated owner that wants to right the ship, they have enough draft picks to make it happen. I could be wrong here.. but for the talent they have on their team their salary is pretty close to the cap?...(not positive, but read something, somewhere.) which basically disables them from hitting the free agent market. I will get slammed here but I really don't think the Lions are that far removed from mediocrity. Contenders... yes... very far removed, but they can salvage the next couple of seasons as they rebuild.. but Ford JR. has GOT TO GO.Great fans in Michigan/Detroit...just need a team that can compete!!
Balance
Footballguy
The essay at the bottom of this article puts it best for me.
Please go 0-16.
My fascination with the Lions' quest for 0-16
Please go 0-16.
My fascination with the Lions' quest for 0-16
puckalicious
Footballguy
William Clay Ford Sr. owns the team. Junior often disagrees with his father about the team but he has no official capacity in the Lions organization AFAIK. Some say Jr would be better at running things, but he was outspoken about wanting to keep **** Jauron as head coach....This team will never be good until the Ford family sells the team to someone that both cares about winning AND knows squat about football.I agree, Detroit is strong in 2 out of the 4 major American sports. It's not the location, just the ownership. Ford has this "I don't really care attitude", it's almost like he's fine with the Lions being on the back burner of his "give-a-damn" stove. If he sells this team to a dedicated owner that wants to right the ship, they have enough draft picks to make it happen. I could be wrong here.. but for the talent they have on their team their salary is pretty close to the cap?...(not positive, but read something, somewhere.) which basically disables them from hitting the free agent market. I will get slammed here but I really don't think the Lions are that far removed from mediocrity. Contenders... yes... very far removed, but they can salvage the next couple of seasons as they rebuild.. but Ford JR. has GOT TO GO.Great fans in Michigan/Detroit...just need a team that can compete!!
Balance
Footballguy
I disagree.Take your 2 1st rounders, use some money on free agents.A bunch of rookies are not going to help the team, need to mix in some proven veterans. I would agree trading down for a proven player, but not simply more picks.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Michael Crabtree
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
Draft one of the two, then move Backus to guard...and the line will be tons better. A better line will be able to run the ball more, which opens things up for Calvin. It will also keep the defense off the field. They have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. After taking a left tackle, the next 4 have to be defensive players. Another poster mentioned that there are really no defensive players worthy of the 1.01, or else I would say go pass rushing DE. No chance I take any LB first overall. To me, that is left tackle, pass rusher, or QB. The Lions are too bad everywhere to take a QB unless it is a Peyton Manning type can't miss...and this year there are none of those.
-OZ-
Footballguy
The Tigers aren't a bad franchise either. And while it's not at the same level, the Shock have won 3 of the last 6 WNBA championships including 2 of the last 3 - and lost the 3rd. Dynasty!Detroit is actually a very good sports town, the Fords just suck.I agree, Detroit is strong in 2 out of the 4 major American sports. It's not the location, just the ownership. Ford has this "I don't really care attitude", it's almost like he's fine with the Lions being on the back burner of his "give-a-damn" stove. If he sells this team to a dedicated owner that wants to right the ship, they have enough draft picks to make it happen. I could be wrong here.. but for the talent they have on their team their salary is pretty close to the cap?...(not positive, but read something, somewhere.) which basically disables them from hitting the free agent market. I will get slammed here but I really don't think the Lions are that far removed from mediocrity. Contenders... yes... very far removed, but they can salvage the next couple of seasons as they rebuild.. but Ford JR. has GOT TO GO.Great fans in Michigan/Detroit...just need a team that can compete!!
-OZ-
Footballguy
I'll agree if you can first show us where a team has built itself on free agency.
You win in this league through coaching, player development and defense. I suppose if they can sign Haynesworth I could support that move, but they won't be contending until they fix the coaches (and owner)ETA: h-e-double hockey sticks will freeze over before any team makes a good offer for the 1.01. Even if the Lions "Gave it away" it would be hard to move, so let's get past this whole "TRADE DOWN!" mantra.
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This draft has a lot of talent at the OT position. The drop off between the #1 ranked OT and the #4 ranked OT might not be that much.
The Lions need to take the best player available regardless of position (but no WR). If they think one of the QB's is the next Peyton Manning, take him. If they think one of the OT's is the next Orlando Pace, take him. If they think on the DE's is the next Richard Seymour, take him.
The Lions need to take the best player available regardless of position (but no WR). If they think one of the QB's is the next Peyton Manning, take him. If they think one of the OT's is the next Orlando Pace, take him. If they think on the DE's is the next Richard Seymour, take him.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
The Lions defense is historically bad. It might be the worst in league history. I mentioned that at the bottom of this article.
Pass defense? As of now, the Lions rank a very distance 32nd in adjusted net yards per pass allowed. They're allowing over 8.0 ANY/A, which is absurd.
Rush defense? The Lions have pulled off the rare triple feat -- last in rushing yards allowed, last in rushing TDs allowed, last in rushing YPC allowed. Obviously, then, last in adjusted rushing yards per carry allowed (adjusted by adding 20 rushing yards for every rushing TD allowed).
Points allowed? No one is within 50 points of them.
Offensive touchdowns allowed? Dead last.
Only three teams since 1960 have ranked dead last in all four categories -- ANY/A allowed, AYPC allowed, Points Allowed and Offensive Touchdowns Allowed. So the Lions defense is historically bad. The '92 Falcons, '86 Bucs and '72 Patriots. Interestingly, none of those teams went defense with the first pick the next year, with two lineman (Lincoln Kennedy and John Hannah) and one QB (Vinny Testaverde) being the number one picks.
I actually don't think Detroit should go defense with the first pick, but just about every other pick needs to be on that side of the ball.
Pass defense? As of now, the Lions rank a very distance 32nd in adjusted net yards per pass allowed. They're allowing over 8.0 ANY/A, which is absurd.
Rush defense? The Lions have pulled off the rare triple feat -- last in rushing yards allowed, last in rushing TDs allowed, last in rushing YPC allowed. Obviously, then, last in adjusted rushing yards per carry allowed (adjusted by adding 20 rushing yards for every rushing TD allowed).
Points allowed? No one is within 50 points of them.
Offensive touchdowns allowed? Dead last.
Only three teams since 1960 have ranked dead last in all four categories -- ANY/A allowed, AYPC allowed, Points Allowed and Offensive Touchdowns Allowed. So the Lions defense is historically bad. The '92 Falcons, '86 Bucs and '72 Patriots. Interestingly, none of those teams went defense with the first pick the next year, with two lineman (Lincoln Kennedy and John Hannah) and one QB (Vinny Testaverde) being the number one picks.
I actually don't think Detroit should go defense with the first pick, but just about every other pick needs to be on that side of the ball.
Phurfur
Footballguy
Why?????????? This statement makes no sense to me! Please elaborate.
Balance
Footballguy
I'll take that as you agree completely as nowhere did I say they should build a team just on free agency.I'll agree if you can first show us where a team has built itself on free agency.
You win in this league through coaching, player development and defense. I suppose if they can sign Haynesworth I could support that move, but they won't be contending until they fix the coaches (and owner)
ETA: h-e-double hockey sticks will freeze over before any team makes a good offer for the 1.01. Even if the Lions "Gave it away" it would be hard to move, so let's get past this whole "TRADE DOWN!" mantra.
DeCleater
Footballguy
Another angle to this is Ford is getting a huge bailout from the taxpayers. Shouldn't he be required to sell the Lions and use that money to fund his company before taxpayers are put on the hook for his companies debt. How is he allowed to keep his toy when his company is bankrupt. Goodell should look at this.
Phurfur
Footballguy
The bailout was only for Crysler and GM. Also the Ford's are majority share holders not owners, there is a big difference.http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/20/business...&ei=5087%0A
Also the Ford's are majority share holders not owners, there is a big difference.
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RBM
Footballguy
Tornacl
Footballguy
The Lions aren't going to trade the pick, because no other team will want it due to the crazy rookie salaries. Everyone, except the Lions, knows that you win in the trenches on both sides. Since 1997, the Lions have had 8 top 10 picks, and NOT ONE of them have been used on an offensive or defensive lineman.
They need to use the #1 pick on the best LT in the draft (as graded by everyone else, since they are so bad at evaluating talent). Personally, I think they should take Smith. (I agree with an earlier poster who said to move Backus to guard.) With their 2nd first round pick, they should take Stafford or Bramford if they are still there, and if not, they should take the best defensive player on the board.
I don't know the best defensive players out there, but if a stud falls to the middle of the first, they should consider trade up using some of the extra picks they got from the Cowboys. Or trading next year's first round pick to trade back into the first round. (I don't like this option as much, because they're still going to be bad next year, and I'm not sure when any new bargaining agreement would take effect, which will likely have a rookie salary structure.)
With their second round pick, if they went defense with the Cowboys' pick, they should take Colt McCoy if he's there. He's tough, mobile, and smart with the football, which are all traits any Lions QB needs. I see him ending up as a poor-man's Drew Brees.
After that, EVERY pick should be on the defensive side of the ball.
And as far as the rest of the team goes, they should largely avoid the free agent market, spending their money instead on purging their roster of the old players and cast offs that Millen & Co. brought in. They'll have to take a lot of cap hits this year, but if they can absorb them all at once and make a commitment to playing young guys (i.e. rebuilding), then they'll be able to add some players next year. They have so many holes that they cannot afford to spend the kind of money that is necessary to bring in a "difference maker."
This is no one-year rebuilding project, so they need to plan on suffering through next year, probably only winning 3-4 games. But if they can win 3-4 games using mostly young players, I think most fans will be ok with that. The problem is when you are staring 0-16 right in the face, yet you are the fourth OLDEST team in the league. Most fans understand how major of an undertaking this is, but would accept a legitimate rebuilding mode with the losses that entails. What is unacceptable is that we've been forced to watch an 0-16 season (in all likelihood) knowing that the rebuilding STILL NEEDS TO HAPPPEN!
They need to use the #1 pick on the best LT in the draft (as graded by everyone else, since they are so bad at evaluating talent). Personally, I think they should take Smith. (I agree with an earlier poster who said to move Backus to guard.) With their 2nd first round pick, they should take Stafford or Bramford if they are still there, and if not, they should take the best defensive player on the board.
I don't know the best defensive players out there, but if a stud falls to the middle of the first, they should consider trade up using some of the extra picks they got from the Cowboys. Or trading next year's first round pick to trade back into the first round. (I don't like this option as much, because they're still going to be bad next year, and I'm not sure when any new bargaining agreement would take effect, which will likely have a rookie salary structure.)
With their second round pick, if they went defense with the Cowboys' pick, they should take Colt McCoy if he's there. He's tough, mobile, and smart with the football, which are all traits any Lions QB needs. I see him ending up as a poor-man's Drew Brees.
After that, EVERY pick should be on the defensive side of the ball.
And as far as the rest of the team goes, they should largely avoid the free agent market, spending their money instead on purging their roster of the old players and cast offs that Millen & Co. brought in. They'll have to take a lot of cap hits this year, but if they can absorb them all at once and make a commitment to playing young guys (i.e. rebuilding), then they'll be able to add some players next year. They have so many holes that they cannot afford to spend the kind of money that is necessary to bring in a "difference maker."
This is no one-year rebuilding project, so they need to plan on suffering through next year, probably only winning 3-4 games. But if they can win 3-4 games using mostly young players, I think most fans will be ok with that. The problem is when you are staring 0-16 right in the face, yet you are the fourth OLDEST team in the league. Most fans understand how major of an undertaking this is, but would accept a legitimate rebuilding mode with the losses that entails. What is unacceptable is that we've been forced to watch an 0-16 season (in all likelihood) knowing that the rebuilding STILL NEEDS TO HAPPPEN!
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Bradford and Stafford should be long gone by the second round.McCoy doesn't project as a good pro, but he's not coming out, anyway. He'll be in the '10 draft.
Tornacl
Footballguy
They'll be long gone by the second round, but the Lions have a second 1st round pick, where one of them may still be around. QBs have been falling in recent drafts, so one of them may end up being the Brady Quinn of this year's class.As far as McCoy not coming out, we'll see about that. He doesn't grade out as a great pro, because most people rely too much on measurables. I don't think that Drew Brees graded out as a great QB, nor did Tom Brady. While at the same time, Ryan Leaf did. I'm not saying that McCoy will be the next Tom Brady or Drew Brees, but I think that he'll be better than people think.
bcr8f
Footballguy
They probably need a good football man to run the team and support him in every way.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
WC Ford will take a QB with the first pick Guaranteed. write it down take it to the bank
they need to sell seats. first time since the new stadium opened up they had blackouts this year.
they need to sell seats. first time since the new stadium opened up they had blackouts this year.
Sinrman
Footballguy
Exactly what I HOPE they will do, but know full well it won't happen. A) It's the Lions and B) the #1 overall is still WAY too pricey for teams to try and move up.I would love to see them move down, but still in the top 10, and pick up one of the top OL if they are still around. If not, DEFENSE DEFENSE, DEFENSE!
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I don't think the #1 is too pricey for teams to try and move up; I think teams are very reluctant (with good reason) to give it up. For example, the team with the fifth pick could offer that pick and their 3rd rounder for the #1 pick, but the Lions wouldn't do that.
rzrback77
Footballguy
I think that teams would be more likely to move up to #1 for a solid QB and with the performances this year for Matt Ryan and Flacco, and the expectations for Matt Stafford, I could see the Lions getting offers to exchange #1 for #3 or #4 and other lower picks.
Much more so in 09 than in recent years.
Much more so in 09 than in recent years.
.................................And with the 1st pick the Lions take Matthew Stafford from the University of Georgia
I think they can get an O-Line with a high grade with the second 1st round pick. I just don't think you pass up a QB IF he has the high grades and pedigree coming out of workouts/combine etc.
The major key for the 1st pick is to get him in camp from DAY 1. No holdouts especially if they take either Stafford or Bradford. He has to be in camp DAY 1 no if, ands or buts.
I think they can get an O-Line with a high grade with the second 1st round pick. I just don't think you pass up a QB IF he has the high grades and pedigree coming out of workouts/combine etc.
The major key for the 1st pick is to get him in camp from DAY 1. No holdouts especially if they take either Stafford or Bradford. He has to be in camp DAY 1 no if, ands or buts.
Captain Blowhard
Footballguy
And don't forget the 2006 American League champs, the Tigers.
-OZ-
Footballguy
What I'm saying is free agency is a decent place to get a couple mid-level players to fill holes when the rest of your team is established, but if you're totally in a development mode, FA doesn't make financial sense. Unless of course you can get a couple CHEAP players with top notch leadership ability, which just doesn't happen often - if they're good leaders, their old team will likely keep them. Can you identify a time when a team, as bad as the Lions, signed free agents that made a significant impact? The Raiders tried it with Javon and Harris. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see it. ETA: I'll throw Pennington out there, but are there any others?I'll take that as you agree completely as nowhere did I say they should build a team just on free agency.I'll agree if you can first show us where a team has built itself on free agency.
You win in this league through coaching, player development and defense. I suppose if they can sign Haynesworth I could support that move, but they won't be contending until they fix the coaches (and owner)
ETA: h-e-double hockey sticks will freeze over before any team makes a good offer for the 1.01. Even if the Lions "Gave it away" it would be hard to move, so let's get past this whole "TRADE DOWN!" mantra.
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Phurfur
Footballguy
and what rookie QB is going to do that?
-OZ-
Footballguy
I can see that, but it will stir up memories of Scott Mitchell. Who, FWIW, wasn't ALL bad.
Spartans346
Footballguy
chook
Footballguy
Was coming in to post this.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
This is a good year for the Lions to have the #1 overall.If they stay there, they could put four names in a hat (Oher, Smith, Stafford, Bradford) and pick one. I really don't think they could go wrong with any of those guys. The tackle position is deep enough that they could get a good one if they went their 2nd first rounder if they went QB with the first. Then draft defense the rest of the way.
gman74
Footballguy
Much more so in 09 than in recent years.
This is a good year for the Lions to have the #1 overall.
If they stay there, they could put four names in a hat (Oher, Smith, Stafford, Bradford) and pick one. I really don't think they could go wrong with any of those guys. The tackle position is deep enough that they could get a good one if they went their 2nd first rounder if they went QB with the first. Then draft defense the rest of the way.
Hopefully the Dallas pick will improve today. I would not mind taking Smith with the first and if need be trade the 2nd first pick and a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick and get Oher and get both of your Tackles.
This is a good year for the Lions to have the #1 overall.If they stay there, they could put four names in a hat (Oher, Smith, Stafford, Bradford) and pick one. I really don't think they could go wrong with any of those guys. The tackle position is deep enough that they could get a good one if they went their 2nd first rounder if they went QB with the first. Then draft defense the rest of the way.
Hopefully the Dallas pick will improve today. I would not mind taking Smith with the first and if need be trade the 2nd first pick and a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick and get Oher and get both of your Tackles.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I think it would take more than that go get Oher, since he's at least a top 10 pick if not a top 5. Andre Smith projects more as a RT to me , so I'd personall take Oher over Smith. Either way, it's not a bad plan since Cherlius is showing pretty early that he's a likely bust.[farley]Remember when you took Cherlius ahead of Otah?.... Yeah, that was great.[/farley]
-OZ-
Footballguy
So... the Lions could put 4 names in a hat yet the team with the 3 or 4 will trade up?This is a good year for the Lions to have the #1 overall.If they stay there, they could put four names in a hat (Oher, Smith, Stafford, Bradford) and pick one. I really don't think they could go wrong with any of those guys. The tackle position is deep enough that they could get a good one if they went their 2nd first rounder if they went QB with the first. Then draft defense the rest of the way.
Right now, the teams with the 3 and 4 picks are the Bengals and Chiefs, right? Assuming Palmer can get healthy, they sure won't be trading up for a QB with their need at OL and DE, they are not moving up. The Chiefs need both a QB and a LT, so why would they trade up? If anything, the Chiefs may attempt to trade down for Orakpu. With Bradford/Stafford and Oher/Smith being basically equal talents, the Rams sure aren't moving up. No team 5-15 aside from SF is in the market for a QB, although most can use a LT. With the quality depth on the OLine this year, where's the incentive to move up for a LT? The Lions are stuck with the 1.01, you are right that there are 4 players worth taking, so that's somewhat lucky.
-OZ-
Footballguy
although they have a chance at Monroe. There's something to be said for walking away with Oher and Monroe / bookends. More likely, they go with Stafford and a DL with the later 1st - Raji, one of the Ole Miss DL - Jerry/Hardy, and I still like Selvie a lot - just not sure how well he fits here.Keep in mind the pressure the head coach / FIL to the DC will feel to advocate for improving the defense.
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