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The media/fan myth of QB comebacks...Favre? (1 Viewer)

sho nuff

Footballguy
I debated even posting this because I know what the reaction by some will be because of it being me posting it.

The article is not the best written...the guy has a very obvious slant against Favre from the get go...but his points are solid about the number of comebacks.

I thought it was an interesting read...and would bet if they looked in to other QBs the results would be similar.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nfl

 
I debated even posting this because I know what the reaction by some will be because of it being me posting it.

The article is not the best written...the guy has a very obvious slant against Favre from the get go...but his points are solid about the number of comebacks.

I thought it was an interesting read...and would bet if they looked in to other QBs the results would be similar.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nfl
All I care about is he's done it once for my Vikes.. T-Jack or Sage would not have made that pass..So we're 3-0 heading in to the Packers game instead of 2-1 :goodposting:

 
I debated even posting this because I know what the reaction by some will be because of it being me posting it.

The article is not the best written...the guy has a very obvious slant against Favre from the get go...but his points are solid about the number of comebacks.

I thought it was an interesting read...and would bet if they looked in to other QBs the results would be similar.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nfl
I completely agree with the bolded part.Comeback statistics are certainly geared to make it seem like a person had more than not, and he just goes through the process of putting some numbers behind that. Interesting article, and not one that tarnishes Favre or any other comeback QB's legacy, in my estimation.

 
I debated even posting this because I know what the reaction by some will be because of it being me posting it.

The article is not the best written...the guy has a very obvious slant against Favre from the get go...but his points are solid about the number of comebacks.

I thought it was an interesting read...and would bet if they looked in to other QBs the results would be similar.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nfl
I completely agree with the bolded part.Comeback statistics are certainly geared to make it seem like a person had more than not, and he just goes through the process of putting some numbers behind that. Interesting article, and not one that tarnishes Favre or any other comeback QB's legacy, in my estimation.
Agreed and that is why I decided to post it eventhough I know there will be some who will give me crap about it being on Favre.
 
I've been saying for years that this whole "comeback drive" thing is the dumbest stat in the history of the league.

If your team scores a go-ahead defensive touchdown with 14:59 left in the 4th quarter of a previously tied game it counts as a "comeback win" for the quarterback, just the same as if someone drove 80 yards in the last 53 seconds and threw a touchdown to overcome a 4 point deficit. It's ridiculous.

And really, even if you look at "true" comebacks, it's still a ridiculous stat because worse quarterbacks naturally get more attempts. You look at a team like Pittsburgh or Baltimore, who spent years with great defenses and bad offenses, and of course they're going to have lots of "comeback" wins (because of more comeback opportunities) given that broad definition, since pretty much every game they go into is close in the 4th quarter BECAUSE of their inept offenses.

A guy like Drew Brees isn't known for his comeback wins, and he doesn't have any this year. A big part of that is because against many teams he's so far out in front he never gets a chance. You could put a mediocre/bad QB on the Saints and they could very well have two "comeback" wins this year, but Brees has none because he's good enough to be up by 30 points in the 4th quarter of those games, and as a result when people start comparing the top quarterbacks he immediately gets pushed down the list. It's like saying he's not as good as another quarterback because he's TOO good, which doesn't make any sense.

And the real story here, as I believe someone ran the numbers a couple years ago, is that if you look at the stats for comeback wins in their TRUE form (IE real comebacks, based on percentage of opportunity where they had the ball, down by 1 score or less but not tied, with under 5 minutes to go in the game), Rex Grossman is one of the most clutch quarterbacks of our decade.

But no one throws that stat out there for Grossman. Why? Because people only use comebacks in their fake form, to make up for a deficiency in their argument elsewhere.

It's like Pittsburgh. People love to bring up how Roethlisberger has this ridiculous number of comebacks for how young he is. Well of course he does, with that defense and poor offense nearly every game that Pittsburgh plays is a one score game in the 4th quarter, so there are tons of opportunities. Most of the games that Pitt loses are failed comeback attempts, but no one ever talks about those.

 
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I've been saying for years that this whole "comeback drive" thing is the dumbest stat in the history of the league.It's like Pittsburgh. People love to bring up how Roethlisberger has this ridiculous number of comebacks for how young he is. Well of course he does, with that defense and poor offense nearly every game that Pittsburgh plays is a one score game in the 4th quarter, so there are tons of opportunities. Most of the games that Pitt loses are failed comeback attempts, but no one ever talks about those.
#1. :blackdot: #2. "I debated even posting this" LOL that Sho Nuff would ever, for even a split second, debate about posting, anything.
 
One problem we have here is that you are tryin to quantify something when it is arguable about how to quantify it.

To me it is a feel question, if Farve an all time great comeback QB. Meh, slightly better than average. He's no Elway.

:popcorn:

 
the turnip said:
#2. "I debated even posting this" LOL that Sho Nuff would ever, for even a split second, debate about posting, anything.
I did...for this reason...that someone would make it about me rather than about the actual article and topic.I thought about im'ing it to someone else to post if they would. Sad that it has come to this because people want to make a post about the poster and not about the topic and gist of the posts sometimes.
 
FreeBaGeL said:
I've been saying for years that this whole "comeback drive" thing is the dumbest stat in the history of the league.

If your team scores a go-ahead defensive touchdown with 14:59 left in the 4th quarter of a previously tied game it counts as a "comeback win" for the quarterback, just the same as if someone drove 80 yards in the last 53 seconds and threw a touchdown to overcome a 4 point deficit. It's ridiculous.

And really, even if you look at "true" comebacks, it's still a ridiculous stat because worse quarterbacks naturally get more attempts. You look at a team like Pittsburgh or Baltimore, who spent years with great defenses and bad offenses, and of course they're going to have lots of "comeback" wins (because of more comeback opportunities) given that broad definition, since pretty much every game they go into is close in the 4th quarter BECAUSE of their inept offenses.

A guy like Drew Brees isn't known for his comeback wins, and he doesn't have any this year. A big part of that is because against many teams he's so far out in front he never gets a chance. You could put a mediocre/bad QB on the Saints and they could very well have two "comeback" wins this year, but Brees has none because he's good enough to be up by 30 points in the 4th quarter of those games, and as a result when people start comparing the top quarterbacks he immediately gets pushed down the list. It's like saying he's not as good as another quarterback because he's TOO good, which doesn't make any sense.

And the real story here, as I believe someone ran the numbers a couple years ago, is that if you look at the stats for comeback wins in their TRUE form (IE real comebacks, based on percentage of opportunity where they had the ball, down by 1 score or less but not tied, with under 5 minutes to go in the game), Rex Grossman is one of the most clutch quarterbacks of our decade.

But no one throws that stat out there for Grossman. Why? Because people only use comebacks in their fake form, to make up for a deficiency in their argument elsewhere.

It's like Pittsburgh. People love to bring up how Roethlisberger has this ridiculous number of comebacks for how young he is. Well of course he does, with that defense and poor offense nearly every game that Pittsburgh plays is a one score game in the 4th quarter, so there are tons of opportunities. Most of the games that Pitt loses are failed comeback attempts, but no one ever talks about those.
:goodposting: I say if the guy didnt suck for the first 3 qtrs of the game, there would be no need for a "comeback". Sorry, John Elway.
 
theglorydays said:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3392

Dan Marino holds the record for 4th quarter comebacks.
The Quarterback Abstract author counted 48 for Elway and 46 for Marino. Either way, it's a virtual tie.
:coffee: I say if the guy didnt suck for the first 3 qtrs of the game, there would be no need for a "comeback". Sorry, John Elway.
I suppose Dan Marino and Johnny Unitas both likewise sucked for 3 quarters all the time, which would explain why they both have as many comebacks as Elway. And if you count "true" comebacks (i.e. his team was trailing in the 4th, but wound up winning... as opposed to game-winning drives, where the team was tied but wound up winning), then Joe Montana's only 3 behind Elway. Imagine how good Montana would be if he hadn't sucked so much in the first 3 quarters!
 
So, the reality isn't impressive of the numbers. Isn't the story pretty much the same for all of the QBs on this list? All of them will have gotten credit for wins they didn't really have much to do with. All of them will have made impressive drives where they rallied the team. All of them will have gotten credit for a lot of games in between the two spectrums.

 
It's like Pittsburgh. People love to bring up how Roethlisberger has this ridiculous number of comebacks for how young he is. Well of course he does, with that defense and poor offense nearly every game that Pittsburgh plays is a one score game in the 4th quarter, so there are tons of opportunities. Most of the games that Pitt loses are failed comeback attempts, but no one ever talks about those.
Every game somebody loses is a failed comeback attempt. Don't be ridiculous.People love to bring up Big Ben because he delivers.
 
And for the record, over the past few seasons the anti-Favre din has grown much louder than the Favre worship. It's far more fashionable now to knock the Favre love than it is to actually love Favre.

Anti-Favre has been done to death :goodposting:

 
Every game somebody loses is a failed comeback attempt. Don't be ridiculous.People love to bring up Big Ben because he delivers.
This.
And for the record, over the past few seasons the anti-Favre din has grown much louder than the Favre worship. It's far more fashionable now to knock the Favre love than it is to actually love Favre. Anti-Favre has been done to death :loco:
And this.
 
And for the record, over the past few seasons the anti-Favre din has grown much louder than the Favre worship. It's far more fashionable now to knock the Favre love than it is to actually love Favre. Anti-Favre has been done to death :thumbup:
This one is more anti-fan and anti-media fascination with QB comebacks. That was the intent. (which is why I posted it and hesitated in doing so,I knew how it would be taken that I posted it).Here is to hoping he has to try to come back from behind tonight. :(
 

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