The Myth That Pierre Thomas Can't Convert Short-Yardage Plays (1 Viewer)

[packersfan]

From RotoWorld:

According to STATS Inc., Pierre Thomas led the league in fewest rushing attempts for negative yardage last season.

There is a perception that Thomas struggled in short yardage because he was stopped up on a few big tries early and the Saints "considered" drafting Beanie Wells, but Thomas was highly potent. Of his 129 carries, only six lost yards (.047 percent). His addition of 10 pounds of muscle can only help.

Source: New Orleans Times-Picayune

 

[dgreen]

Um, ok. But how was he on short-yardage plays?

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Um, ok. But how was he on short-yardage plays?

Not very good. According to the Data Dominator, there were 19 RB's who had at least 15 rushes on 3rd or 4th down and 1 or 2 yards to go. Thomas was 18th in converting 1st downs at 60%. Only MJD was worse at 58%.

 

[gianmarco]

Um, ok. But how was he on short-yardage plays?

Detailed here: Pierre Thomas -- 3rd/4th down and shortLook at the bottom of the thread where I detailed others. PT was among one of the best short-yardage RB's in the league.

 

[gianmarco]

Some more analysis of PT

 

[gianmarco]

Um, ok. But how was he on short-yardage plays?

Not very good. According to the Data Dominator, there were 19 RB's who had at least 15 rushes on 3rd or 4th down and 1 or 2 yards to go. Thomas was 18th in converting 1st downs at 60%. Only MJD was worse at 58%.

Thanks for pulling that up. I didn't realize I could find that in the Data Dominator Anyway, I had actually done it previously on 3rd/4th down and 3 to go. This is the list and results I got. PT wasn't at the top nor was he at the bottom. In fact, he was in line with most RB's ~60%

NAME	  POS	 YR	  RSH	 RSHYD   YD/RSH  FD	  RSHTD   FANT PT	   1Matt Forrb		  2008	  28	  79	2.82	  17	   1	14.9	   2Clinton rb		  2008	  27	 118	4.37	  17	   1	17.8	   3Adrian Prb		  2008	  24	 145	6.04	  19	   3	32.5	   4Maurice rb		  2008	  23	  87	3.78	  13	   0	10.5	   5Steve Slrb		  2008	  21	 187	 8.9	  14	   2	30.5	   6Steven Jrb		  2008	  21	  59	2.81	  14	   1	19.3	   7LenDale rb		  2008	  21	  36	1.71	  14	   5	33.6	   8T.J. Ducrb		  2008	  20	  43	2.15	  16	   1	10.3	   9Larry Jorb		  2008	  20	  36	 1.8	  12	   0	 3.6	  10Joseph Arb		  2008	  19	  84	4.42	  14	   2	20.4	  11Marion Brb		  2008	  19	  52	2.74	  13	   1	11.5	  12Ronnie Brb		  2008	  19	  59	3.11	  13	   2   25.45	  13LeRon Mcrb		  2008	  19	  97	5.11	  15	   1	15.7	  14Pierre Trb		  2008	  17	  61	3.59	  11	   0	14.1	  15LaDainiarb		  2008	  17	  98	5.76	  14	   1	16.7	  16Michael rb		  2008	  17	  65	3.82	  12	   2	18.5	  17Tim Highrb		  2008	  17	  40	2.35	  11	   3	  26	  18Ryan Grarb		  2008	  16	  80	   5	  13	   0	   8	  19Sammy Morb		  2008	  16	  67	4.19	  12	   3	25.4	  20Marshawnrb		  2008	  16	  59	3.69	  11	   2	18.9	  21Michael rb		  2008	  15	  55	3.67	  10	   1	11.5	  22Justin Frb		  2008	  14	  36	2.57	   7	   0	 3.6	  23Brandon rb		  2008	  13	  20	1.54	   6	   0	   2	  24Dominic rb		  2008	  13	  36	2.77	   7	   0	11.5	  25Derrick rb		  2008	  13	  78	   6	  11	   0	 7.8	  26Frank Gorb		  2008	  13	  33	2.54	   8	   2	15.3	  27Kevin Smrb		  2008	  13	 101	7.77	  11	   0	  13	  28Earnest rb		  2008	  13	  41	3.15	  10	   0	 8.1	  29Thomas Jrb		  2008	  12	  10	0.83	   6	   0	 1.3	  30Fred Jacrb		  2008	  12	  39	3.25	   7	   0	 8.2	  31Deuce Mcrb		  2008	  11	  26	2.36	   8	   2	15.2	  32Reggie Brb		  2008	  11	  15	1.36	   8	   1	11.1	  33Lousaka rb		  2008	  11	  23	2.09	  10	   0	 2.7	  34BenJarvurb		  2008	  11	  31	2.82	   7	   2	15.1	  35Chester rb		  2008	  10	  21	 2.1	   5	   0	 3.2	  36DeAngelorb		  2008	  10	  50	   5	   8	   2	17.5	  37Chris Perb		  2008	  10	  17	 1.7	   3	   1	 7.7	  38Gary Rusrb		  2008	  10	  29	 2.9	   7	   0	 2.9	  39Jonathanrb		  2008	  10	  67	 6.7	   8	   1	12.7	  40Brian Werb		  2008	  10	  17	 1.7	   6	   0	  15	  41Michael rb		  2008	   9	  14	1.56	   5	   1	   9	  42Warrick rb		  2008	   9	   4	0.44	   2	   0	 5.7	  43Peyton Hrb		  2008	   9	  34	3.78	   7	   2	17.7	  44Chris Jorb		  2008	   9	  36	   4	   6	   2	15.8	  45Mewelde rb		  2008	   8	  28	 3.5	   4	   1	 9.8	  46Willis Mrb		  2008	   8	  27	3.38	   7	   0	   5	  47Jerious rb		  2008	   7	  35	   5	   4	   1	12.8

ETA--I asked this earlier in another thread but never got a response. Does anyone know how to get these tables to lineup so they are easily read?

 

[dgreen]

ETA--I asked this earlier in another thread but never got a response. Does anyone know how to get these tables to lineup so they are easily read?

Put it in Word. Make it all a font that uses equal spacing (I use Courier New). Using only the space bar and enter button, make it all line up. Don't use the tab button and remove any tabs that might be in there. Copy and paste it all into here with code tags.

 

[saintfool]

does this really need to be done?

the o-line, i think, is as much to blame for the deficiencies of the saints running game as the RBs. does that mean he's not going to be a solid and effective FF player? not at all. he's going to get every opportunity to excel and that's what matters. he came up short several instances. lots of RBs have that happen on occasion. it's not a pattern. the only reason some observers - saints fans really - even mention it is because it cost us points in a game or two. also, some fans are sentimental fools for a great player like deuce.

this is not a big deal.

 

[puckalicious]

Maybe it's just me, but 60% sounds like a pretty good 1st down conversion rate in short yardage situations. What was the % for the #1 rated RB?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I never heard this myth.

 

[psychobillies]

Looks like PT is working on his leg drive.

Link

 

[lord_helmet]

Looks like PT is working on his leg drive.

Link

Thats the spirit. 'Line 'em up, I'll beat them all'

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Maybe it's just me, but 60% sounds like a pretty good 1st down conversion rate in short yardage situations. What was the % for the #1 rated RB?

60% was the second lowest among all backs with 15+ carries in short yardage situations. Here are the other back's percentages:82%80%70%60%70%76%81%80%80%63%63%71%58%61%69%73%67%However, it wasn't all that much lower than the average (67%) or the median (70%).

 

[puckalicious]

However, it wasn't all that much lower than the average (67%) or the mean median (70%).

Thanks for the info!

 

[FreeBaGeL]

However, it wasn't all that much lower than the average (67%) or the mean median (70%).

Thanks for the info!

Whoops.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

PT is legit. Only real question is with aPass happy O and R bush in the backfield can he get enough touches?

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

PT is legit. Only real question is with aPass happy O and R bush in the backfield can he get enough touches?