What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The new Red Scare (1 Viewer)

It's ok.  I know Hillary supporters have a vested interest in pretending this isn't a thing.  
By Golly this is awful. I really enjoy opposing viewpoints, maybe to a fault. But you're talking to a guy, Henry, who could probably write a half a book on McCarthyism in the modern context before checking his notes - and you post a wikipedia link to him. - Then he gives you a straight up neutral response, like a gentleman, and you accuse him of being a Hillary supporter and the guy could probably take a running shot at drafting a decent indictment if anyone at DOJ actually asked him. - I mean please think of your audience in posting this tripe.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
By Golly this is awful. I really enjoy opposing viewpoints, maybe to a fault. But you're talking to a guy, Henry, who could probably write a half a book on McCarthyism in the modern context before checking his notes - and you post a wikipedia link to him. - Then he gives you a straight up neutral response, like a gentleman, and you accuse him of being a Hillary supporter and the guy could probably take a running shot at drafting a decent indictment if anyone at DOJ actually asked him. - I mean please think of your audience in posting this tripe.
I appreciate the support, but it really wasn't neutral if you know the history of McCarthyism.  It's completely impossible to compare the legal outcomes of the two and come up with any kind of belief that these are similar. 

 
I appreciate the support, but it really wasn't neutral if you know the history of McCarthyism.  It's completely impossible to compare the legal outcomes of the two and come up with any kind of belief that these are similar. 
Oh yeah, I just meant you took on the issue as an issue without any sort of personal redress on your part. He came back with an ad hominem (or as we say in NO, your Mom'n'dem).

 
Oh yeah, I just meant you took on the issue as an issue without any sort of personal redress on your part. He came back with an ad hominem (or as we say in NO, your Mom'n'dem).
Honestly, I don't find it all that insulting to be referred to as wrong-headed by anyone who pushed the Seth Rich insanity.

 
By Golly this is awful. I really enjoy opposing viewpoints, maybe to a fault. But you're talking to a guy, Henry, who could probably write a half a book on McCarthyism in the modern context befroe checking his notes - and you post a wikipedia link to him. - Then he gives you a straight up neutral response, like a gentleman, and you accuse him of being a Hillary supporter and the guy could probably take a running shot at drafting a decent indictment if anyone at DOJ actually asked him. - I mean please think of your audience in posting this tripe.
Yeah, it was pretty bad.  I regretted it almost immediately.  But shifting the subject to # of arrests away from the actual topic- this paranoid culture that has overtaken much of the centerleft, where everything is viewed through the lens of TRUMP/PUTIN/RUSSIA, and is extremely unhealthy for a constructive debate about how we can address systemic, structural problems in a realistic and sensible way, beyond impeaching Trump and getting President Mike Pence- seemed to me like avoiding the actual point of the thread.  Never mind the McCarthy jokes littering the first page.

 
All due respect to Henry, I do think Hillary supporters were more drawn to the Trump/Russia conspiracy for whatever reason.  And have a vested interest in not acknowledging any of its negative aftermath.  

 
And sorry Saints, but Henry made a joke about Melissa McCarthy.  I posted a wikipedia link to him because the subject of the thread is Joseph McCarthy, not Melissa McCarthy.  I wasn't trying to soil his honor or something.  I mean, bless Henry's heart or whatever, but the guy can get a little contentious himself sometimes, and it's not easy to read on a messageboard.  People don't need to act like I've insulted their father or something.  Good lord. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
And sorry Saints, but Henry made a joke about Melissa McCarthy.  I posted a wikipedia link to him because the subject of the thread is Joseph McCarthy, not Melissa McCarthy.  I wasn't trying to soil his honor or something.  I mean, bless Henry's heart or whatever, but the guy can get a little contentious himself sometimes, and it's not easy to read on a messageboard.  People don't need to act like I've insulted their father or something.  Good lord. 
I’m glad you posted that link because I wasn’t aware it was Joseph McCarthy you were referencing in your thread title. With all the other McCarthys mentioned I was confused. 

(Most of the confusion stems from the fact that nothing written in your OP, nor anything you have posted in this thread since, bears any resemblance whatsoever to the actions of Joseph McCarthy or of the phenomenon known as “McCarthyism”) 

 
this paranoid culture that has overtaken much of the centerleft,
Ok let me ask you something.

I'll say in advance I had a conversation with an old friend who is very conservative and a Trump guy a while back and I asked him what he thought could have possibly driven all these Deep State baddies who have devoted their lives and careers to catching spies, corrupt politicians, white collar criminals and terrorists to just suddenly hate Trump and really seek to destroy him, and he said "envy." I found that ludicrous. I mean I really asked for a motive and that's what he came up with. Smart guy, I respect him and he's my friend to the grave.

Now I'll ask you - what do you think is driving this paranoia as you put it? McCarthyism was easy - communism, as an ideology was a real thing. These were two serious superpowers wrestling with each other. - Now why in your opinion is "the left" so allegedly, supposedly, purportedly "scared" of Russia? It's not communism, we know that. So what is it?

 
Still waiting for this question to be answered.
NBC wrote a hitpiece, published the day of Tulsi Gabbard's announcement, sourcing garbage pseudoscience from a firm whose executive fabricated Russian bots, which generated false news articles suggesting that Roy Moore was being pushed by Russian bots. 

It basically alleges that Russian bots are 'amplifying' Tulsi Gabbard, and as you know, Russia bad.  I don't think I have to explain what they're insinuating- that the Kremlin prefers Tulsi Gabbard, who happens to express opposition to American wars and advocates progressive policy at home, over establishment Democrats.  

The piece's own author linked to the piece saying "The Kremlin already has a crush on Tulsi Gabbard".  It's a joke.  

 
this paranoid culture that has overtaken much of the centerleft,
Ok let me ask you something.

I'll say in advance I had a conversation with an old friend who is very conservative and a Trump guy a while back and I asked him what he thought could have possibly driven all these Deep State baddies who have devoted their lives and careers to catching spies, corrupt politicians, white collar criminals and terrorists to just suddenly hate Trump and really seek to destroy him, and he said "envy." I found that ludicrous. I mean I really asked for a motive and that's what he came up with. Smart guy, I respect him and he's my friend to the grave.
Did you ask your friend why career bureaucrats/LEOs would be envious of a billionaire but not all the multi-millionaires who came before him? The Bush family has more net worth and more power than the Trump family, overall.

 
Now why in your opinion is "the left" so allegedly, supposedly, purportedly "scared" of Russia? It's not communism, we know that. So what is it? 
Not OP but I'd like to share my thoughts on this. I think the blame Russia philosophy has taken over because it helps three powerful groups:

1. If the DNC can blame Russia instead of their own failures they can quash dissent within the party

2. If the wealthy donors that support centrist/corporate Dems can blame Russia instead of economic policies that have left the middle class behind they can quash policy ideas that will hurt their interests.

3. Blame Russia = More clicks/views. Good for media that push the story.

Now, all of these can be true and it can still be the case that Trump colluded with Russia. To date I haven't seen convincing evidence of this but I'll withhold final judgment until Mueller concludes his investigation of course.

 
Did you ask your friend why career bureaucrats/LEOs would be envious of a billionaire but not all the multi-millionaires who came before him? The Bush family has more net worth and more power than the Trump family, overall.
Ha, yes. It was a pointless exercise. I think he was reacting adamantly because he had to come up with something. It wasn't a rational point, I told him so. Basically he had nothing, and I told him so. I also pointed out he hadn't actually thought of it before and it showed.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok let me ask you something.

I'll say in advance I had a conversation with an old friend who is very conservative and a Trump guy a while back and I asked him what he thought could have possibly driven all these Deep State baddies who have devoted their lives and careers to catching spies, corrupt politicians, white collar criminals and terrorists to just suddenly hate Trump and really seek to destroy him, and he said "envy." I found that ludicrous. I mean I really asked for a motive and that's what he came up with. Smart guy, I respect him and he's my friend to the grave.

Now I'll ask you - what do you think is driving this paranoia as you put it? McCarthyism was easy - communism, as an ideology was a real thing. These were two serious superpowers wrestling with each other. - Now why in your opinion is "the left" so allegedly, supposedly, purportedly "scared" of Russia? It's not communism, we know that. So what is it?
And this is why QAnon caught on. It only makes sense if we’re all covering up for the pedophile Illuminati. 

 
Not OP but I'd like to share my thoughts on this. I think the blame Russia philosophy has taken over because it helps three powerful groups:

1. If the DNC can blame Russia instead of their own failures they can quash dissent within the party

2. If the wealthy donors that support centrist/corporate Dems can blame Russia instead of economic policies that have left the middle class behind they can quash policy ideas that will hurt their interests.

3. Blame Russia = More clicks/views. Good for media that push the story.

Now, all of these can be true and it can still be the case that Trump colluded with Russia. To date I haven't seen convincing evidence of this but I'll withhold final judgment until Mueller concludes his investigation of course.
Thanks. IMO Nos. 1 and 2 might work for the power players but for the base and grass roots citizens getting Dems committed on such things is like herding cats. On. (3), yeah that's a good point and it's a great story, a real potboiler IMO, but let's keep in mind an actual nothingburger would have fizzled a long, long time ago.

Let's keep in mind the essence of McCarthyism was hatred and fear of the USSR and communism. There was no ingrained animus towards Russia or whatever Putin's ideology is described as on 'the left' before all this.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nos. 1 and 2 might work for the power players but for the base and grass roots citizens getting Dems committed on such things is like herding cats
IMO its the epitome of politics as sport. For many (including the most vocal on the interwebs) its pure red team vs blue team and they will push whatever line the Party wants.

On. (3), yeah that's a good point and it's a great story, a real potboiler IMO, but let's keep in mind an actual nothingburger would have fizzled a long, long time ago.
You have more faith in corporate media than I do. I think their record speaks for itself.

Let's keep in mind the essence of McCarthyism was hatred and fear of the USSR and communism. There was no ingrained animus towards Russia or whatever Putin's ideology is described as on 'the left' before all this.
I agree McCarthyism probably isn't the best analogy, but those were Ren's words not mine.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
All due respect to Henry, I do think Hillary supporters were more drawn to the Trump/Russia conspiracy for whatever reason.  And have a vested interest in not acknowledging any of its negative aftermath.  
All due respect to ren, but labeling this something like McCarthyism requires ignoring much of reality, and reshaping it solely based on what Trump is saying.

 
NBC wrote a hitpiece, published the day of Tulsi Gabbard's announcement, sourcing garbage pseudoscience from a firm whose executive fabricated Russian bots, which generated false news articles suggesting that Roy Moore was being pushed by Russian bots. 

It basically alleges that Russian bots are 'amplifying' Tulsi Gabbard, and as you know, Russia bad.  I don't think I have to explain what they're insinuating- that the Kremlin prefers Tulsi Gabbard, who happens to express opposition to American wars and advocates progressive policy at home, over establishment Democrats.  

The piece's own author linked to the piece saying "The Kremlin already has a crush on Tulsi Gabbard".  It's a joke.  
You do realize that McCarthyism was specifically  about innocent people being accused during the years 1949-1954 of having Communist ideology and having their lives ruined as a result, right? 

So it seems to me that despite this post and others, squistion’s question has still not been answered. 

 
Yeah, it was pretty bad.  I regretted it almost immediately.  But shifting the subject to # of arrests away from the actual topic- this paranoid culture that has overtaken much of the centerleft, where everything is viewed through the lens of TRUMP/PUTIN/RUSSIA, and is extremely unhealthy for a constructive debate about how we can address systemic, structural problems in a realistic and sensible way, beyond impeaching Trump and getting President Mike Pence- seemed to me like avoiding the actual point of the thread.  Never mind the McCarthy jokes littering the first page.
Perhaps you can show me where, before this post, you indicated that as the point of the thread.

 
Now I'll ask you - what do you think is driving this paranoia as you put it? McCarthyism was easy - communism, as an ideology was a real thing. These were two serious superpowers wrestling with each other. - Now why in your opinion is "the left" so allegedly, supposedly, purportedly "scared" of Russia? It's not communism, we know that. So what is it?
They're scared because everywhere they look they see people drumming up the Russian threat.  Putin can shut down the power grid and make people freeze to death, Putin's bots are electing candidates you don't like, Putin is using sophisticated microwaves on US diplomats in Cuba, Putin is dividing the Democratic Party, Putin is sowing discord, Putin wants to kill our allies, Putin hacked the election, etc.  Like a Top-10 Threatdown back when Colbert was good.  Corporate media and politicians have plodded this narrative along for years, it's not a huge shocker that people have bought in.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Corporate media and politicians have plodded this narrative along for years, it's not a huge shocker that people have bought in.  
The way I recall it Romney was laughed off when he raise Russia in 2012. Putin has been really pushing it since 2006, and indeed he was really put in place behind Yeltsin in 1998 IIRC. Anna Chapman and the spy ring she was a part of was 2010 and all anyone can remember was how fine she was. It was only summer of 2016 that anyone took notice. I don't think "for years" is really accurate.

 
A new government report calls China the top cyber-espionage threat to government agencies and U.S. businesses, and warns that the country has "the ability to launch cyber attacks that cause localized, temporary disruptive effects on critical infrastructure — such as disruption of a natural gas pipeline — for days to weeks in the United States."

A day after two landmark indictments against against China's Huawei, the Senate heard from leaders from the CIA, Office of the Director of National Intelligence, National Security Agency and FBI on the increasing threats from China, as well as new cyberthreats posed by Russia, Iran and North Korea.

...China was called out in the the Worldwide Threat Assessment, a yearly report by the U.S. intelligence community released at Tuesday's hearing.

The report was commissioned by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, an umbrella organization that coordinates all the U.S. intelligence agencies.

It also reported China is "improving" cyberattack capabilities and its ability to create influence campaigns, including "altering information online, shaping Chinese views and potentially the views of U.S. citizens."

...

China was not the only nation called out by the report.

The intelligence agencies also said Russia has been testing U.S. infrastructure and attempting to determine weaknesses that could be used to launch a destructive cyberattack. "Moscow is now staging cyber attack assets to allow it to disrupt or damage US civilian and military infrastructure during a crisis," according to the ODNI.

"Russia has the ability to execute cyber attacks in the United States that generate localized, temporary disruptive effects on critical infrastructure — such as disrupting an electrical distribution network for at least a few hours—similar to those demonstrated in Ukraine in 2015 and 2016," according to the report.

FBI Director Christopher Wray said Russia is also continuing to use social media platforms to continue influence campaigns, including the 2018 midterms. "Not only did they continue to do it, they are continuing to adapt their model and other countries are taking interest [in conducting similar campaigns]," he said.

U.S. social media companies like Facebook and Twitter are increasingly — but tentatively — cooperating with U.S. intelligence on monitoring for misinformation campaigns, said ODNI director Dan Coates.

"Our tech teams are working with their tech teams. I can't say that's worked with every social media company, but it's significantly better because there is information we can provide them that's in their benefit. I'm encouraged — having made some trips to several of these companies — with the openness and willingness to see what we can do," said Coates.
- That's not newsworthy?

- No, I understand, instead it's driven by an irrational hatred of Russia.... and China... and Iran... and North Korea.

 
So Trump and his administration are the equivalent of people in government and entertainment who were accused of being Communists in the fitties? Even without the investigation (by a man so far different than Joe McCarthy as to make this whole scenario even more absurd) and the subsequent indictments and convictions, this is light years away from a crazy right wing Senator waving a bunch of "lists" in the air that he won't show anyone.

Sometimes you have to ask yourself: if Vlad's paid staffers had Footballguys message board on a list of places to drop in on every now and then, what kind of stuff would they post?

 
From what I can see, practically the only issue in which Trump doesn’t need the help of Russia is his bigotry. He’s able to do that all on his own. 

 
Booker: why Russians disenfranchising black people?  

Cory Booker @CoryBooker

Why do you think Russians and Republicans are doing everything they can to subvert African American votes? It’s because they often realize our power more than we do—and the most common way we give up our power is not realizing we have it in the first place. If we vote, we'll win.

 
https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1218956880921403393

An L.A. Times writer: "By at least one calculation Sanders is almost exactly as good for the Kremlin as Trump is.  If it's Trump v Sanders in the general, the Russian Federation has no need even to put a thumb on the scale.  Thifty (sic) use of resources by the new Kremlin monarch."
In terms of our NATO commitment, pretty much. Both men are essentially isolationists. 

 
In terms of our NATO commitment, pretty much. Both men are essentially isolationists. 
NATO spending has actually increased overall since Trump took office.  He has involved us in numerous proxy wars with Russia.  He has scrapped the Iran deal, is refusing to accept the START treaty, and is tooling up for a nuclear arms race with Russia.  He's pushed Europe hard to abandon its Nordstream 2 project with Russia, while Macron says Russia is no longer their enemy.  Call Trump what you want re: Russia, but he's no isolationist.  Come to think of it, neither of them are.  You confuse noninterventionism (the radical notion that countries should talk and trade rather than bomb each other) with isolationism.  

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top