The NFL is Horrible This Year (2 Viewers)

[Joe Bryant]

I do find it interesting to feel like I'm in the minority that sees it as a great product. At least here.

 

[JohnnyU]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

 

[pinkstapler]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

Great points. It can get frustrating to bounce around to find games. Correct me if I'm wrong but, the only weekly game that can't be found on YouTube TV is TNF, right? Of course Netflix is throwing their hat in the ring on Christmas which, will inevitably lead to more ala carte games with streaming services competing for individual game, team, division, conference etc. rights. I think if I have to start bouncing from one streaming service to another during the same timeslot, that may be it for me and the NFL.

But, again, these are external concerns not related to the product on the field even if it alters our perception of the product.

100% which I know are more personalized as some people just don't care as much about that stuff. It's not even like I can't afford to pay for all of them, I'm just pissy about stuff like that and then choose to make my life harder as though I'm sticking it to the NFL. Meanwhile my wife will point out "you're only really sticking it to yourself" lolol.

Some of the little changes in rules I don't love, but ultimately I don't think the product has changed all that much. Even with the refereeing, it seems to come in waves. And like anything in life, the bad sticks with us more than the good unfortunately. I know I don't ever finish watching a game and say "man these refs did really well, called a clean game, nothing that changed the course of the outcome at least". But then one game they get a couple bad ones on tape, especially if it feels like it potentially swings the outcome, and I'll be thinking about it for weeks.

 

[pinkstapler]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

 

[Gally]

I've been watching football on Sunday for 60 years and commercials don't seem to bother me. I suppose in the era of instant gratification it's becoming more of a problem. Get a soda and snacks, get a beer, go poop, give the wife and dog some attention

Football is geared to be watched on TV. You don't see the standing around and nothing happening because of all the commercial breaks. You do things as you described at home. But being there it's a pretty terrible experience. Always seems like nothing is happening because there are so many TV timeouts and stoppages with people just standing on the field. Watching at home is much better.

 

[JohnnyU]

I've been watching football on Sunday for 60 years and commercials don't seem to bother me. I suppose in the era of instant gratification it's becoming more of a problem. Get a soda and snacks, get a beer, go poop, give the wife and dog some attention

Football is geared to be watched on TV. You don't see the standing around and nothing happening because of all the commercial breaks. You do things as you described at home. But being there it's a pretty terrible experience. Always seems like nothing is happening because there are so many TV timeouts and stoppages with people just standing on the field. Watching at home is much better.

Well, I wasn't thinking about that angle being at the game. Good point. I hate that also.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

Thanks. So now, it's $775 to get all the NFL games and it was like $350 5 years ago?

That's enough to make the NFL "horrible" now?

 

[JohnnyU]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

Thanks. So now, it's $775 to get all the NFL games and it was like $350 5 years ago?

That's enough to make the NFL "horrible" now?

Double in 5 years seems high to me regardless of inflation.

 

[JohnnyU]

We got ours half off this year by making a purchase at Best Buy.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

Thanks. So now, it's $775 to get all the NFL games and it was like $350 5 years ago?

That's enough to make the NFL "horrible" now?

Double in 5 years seems high to me regardless of inflation.

Sure. Inflation sucks. But the product still feels outstanding to me. I'm trying to understand why the poster thought it was horrible.

 

[JohnnyU]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

Thanks. So now, it's $775 to get all the NFL games and it was like $350 5 years ago?

That's enough to make the NFL "horrible" now?

Double in 5 years seems high to me regardless of inflation.

Sure. Inflation sucks. But the product still feels outstanding to me. I'm trying to understand why the poster thought it was horrible.

To some, $775 is a lot of money, thus making it horrible. I wouldn’t have paid that and only got it this year because I got it half off through a Best Buy purchase.

 

[JohnnyU]

I would guess you can get the NFL Sunday Ticket half off since we’re almost half way thru the season.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

Thanks. So now, it's $775 to get all the NFL games and it was like $350 5 years ago?

That's enough to make the NFL "horrible" now?

Double in 5 years seems high to me regardless of inflation.

Sure. Inflation sucks. But the product still feels outstanding to me. I'm trying to understand why the poster thought it was horrible.

To some, $775 is a lot of money, thus making it horrible.

Not what I'm saying.

The product may be more expensive than it was. And it might not be worth the money to some people.

But that doesn't make the product "horrible" in my opinion.

That's a problem with the Sunday Ticket package.

I think too expensive for what you get on a viewing package of games is different from the NFL product being horrible. That's what I was trying to get to.

 

[JohnnyU]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

Thanks. So now, it's $775 to get all the NFL games and it was like $350 5 years ago?

That's enough to make the NFL "horrible" now?

Double in 5 years seems high to me regardless of inflation.

Sure. Inflation sucks. But the product still feels outstanding to me. I'm trying to understand why the poster thought it was horrible.

To some, $775 is a lot of money, thus making it horrible.

Not what I'm saying.

The product may be more expensive than it was. And it might not be worth the money to some people.

But that doesn't make the product "horrible" in my opinion.

That's a problem with the Sunday Ticket package.

I think too expensive for what you get on a viewing package of games is different from the NFL product being horrible. That's what I was trying to get to.

Oh ok, I see where you’re coming from. The product itself isn’t horrible, but cost of having it may be.

 

[Chaka]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

Thanks. So now, it's $775 to get all the NFL games and it was like $350 5 years ago?

That's enough to make the NFL "horrible" now?

Double in 5 years seems high to me regardless of inflation.

Sure. Inflation sucks. But the product still feels outstanding to me. I'm trying to understand why the poster thought it was horrible.

To some, $775 is a lot of money, thus making it horrible.

Not what I'm saying.

The product may be more expensive than it was. And it might not be worth the money to some people.

But that doesn't make the product "horrible" in my opinion.

That's a problem with the Sunday Ticket package.

I think too expensive for what you get on a viewing package of games is different from the NFL product being horrible. That's what I was trying to get to.

Separate issues IMO. Between the lines the NFL product is as good as it has always been. But external factors, like cost, diminish enjoyment of the product.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

Thanks. So now, it's $775 to get all the NFL games and it was like $350 5 years ago?

That's enough to make the NFL "horrible" now?

Double in 5 years seems high to me regardless of inflation.

Sure. Inflation sucks. But the product still feels outstanding to me. I'm trying to understand why the poster thought it was horrible.

To some, $775 is a lot of money, thus making it horrible.

Not what I'm saying.

The product may be more expensive than it was. And it might not be worth the money to some people.

But that doesn't make the product "horrible" in my opinion.

That's a problem with the Sunday Ticket package.

I think too expensive for what you get on a viewing package of games is different from the NFL product being horrible. That's what I was trying to get to.

Separate issues IMO. Between the lines the NFL product is as good as it has always been. But external factors, like cost, diminish enjoyment of the product.

Yes, that's what I've been saying. Separate issues.

I'm much more interested in the NFL as a product over whether a package to see every NFL game is too expensive. (Something that would have been insane not that long ago)

 

[Chaka]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

Thanks. So now, it's $775 to get all the NFL games and it was like $350 5 years ago?

That's enough to make the NFL "horrible" now?

Double in 5 years seems high to me regardless of inflation.

Sure. Inflation sucks. But the product still feels outstanding to me. I'm trying to understand why the poster thought it was horrible.

To some, $775 is a lot of money, thus making it horrible.

Not what I'm saying.

The product may be more expensive than it was. And it might not be worth the money to some people.

But that doesn't make the product "horrible" in my opinion.

That's a problem with the Sunday Ticket package.

I think too expensive for what you get on a viewing package of games is different from the NFL product being horrible. That's what I was trying to get to.

Separate issues IMO. Between the lines the NFL product is as good as it has always been. But external factors, like cost, diminish enjoyment of the product.

Yes, that's what I've been saying. Separate issues.

I'm much more interested in the NFL as a product over whether a package to see every NFL game is too expensive. (Something that would have been insane not that long ago)

If you want to view it as the single issue: Are NFL games as a singular product still good? The answer is objectively yes.

But, there are a lot of associated issues which, have been laid out in great detail and, it can be difficult to separate those issues from the game between the lines.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

Thanks. So now, it's $775 to get all the NFL games and it was like $350 5 years ago?

That's enough to make the NFL "horrible" now?

Double in 5 years seems high to me regardless of inflation.

Sure. Inflation sucks. But the product still feels outstanding to me. I'm trying to understand why the poster thought it was horrible.

To some, $775 is a lot of money, thus making it horrible.

Not what I'm saying.

The product may be more expensive than it was. And it might not be worth the money to some people.

But that doesn't make the product "horrible" in my opinion.

That's a problem with the Sunday Ticket package.

I think too expensive for what you get on a viewing package of games is different from the NFL product being horrible. That's what I was trying to get to.

Separate issues IMO. Between the lines the NFL product is as good as it has always been. But external factors, like cost, diminish enjoyment of the product.

Yes, that's what I've been saying. Separate issues.

I'm much more interested in the NFL as a product over whether a package to see every NFL game is too expensive. (Something that would have been insane not that long ago)

If you want to view it as the single issue: Are NFL games as a singular product still good? The answer is objectively yes.

But, there are a lot of associated issues which, have been laid out in great detail and, it can be difficult to separate those issues from the game between the lines.

I'm able to separate them.

And I'd say the overall product is not just objectively good. But better than ever.

I know that puts me in a minority here that actually likes the product and doesn't think it's horrible.

But it would seem based on viewing numbers, I'm not that much of an outlier.

It's a fascinating annual discussion.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think the thing that I find interesing is I wouldn't spend 1 minute on something I thought was horrible. I'd find something I liked.

 

[Chaka]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

Thanks. So now, it's $775 to get all the NFL games and it was like $350 5 years ago?

That's enough to make the NFL "horrible" now?

Double in 5 years seems high to me regardless of inflation.

Sure. Inflation sucks. But the product still feels outstanding to me. I'm trying to understand why the poster thought it was horrible.

To some, $775 is a lot of money, thus making it horrible.

Not what I'm saying.

The product may be more expensive than it was. And it might not be worth the money to some people.

But that doesn't make the product "horrible" in my opinion.

That's a problem with the Sunday Ticket package.

I think too expensive for what you get on a viewing package of games is different from the NFL product being horrible. That's what I was trying to get to.

Separate issues IMO. Between the lines the NFL product is as good as it has always been. But external factors, like cost, diminish enjoyment of the product.

Yes, that's what I've been saying. Separate issues.

I'm much more interested in the NFL as a product over whether a package to see every NFL game is too expensive. (Something that would have been insane not that long ago)

If you want to view it as the single issue: Are NFL games as a singular product still good? The answer is objectively yes.

But, there are a lot of associated issues which, have been laid out in great detail and, it can be difficult to separate those issues from the game between the lines.

I'm able to separate them.

And I'd say the overall product is not just objectively good. But better than ever.

I know that puts me in a minority here that actually likes the product and doesn't think it's horrible.

But it would seem based on viewing numbers, I'm not that much of an outlier.

It's a fascinating annual discussion.

Preaching to the choir, friend.

But, there are still plenty of legitimate things that have changed the way people enjoy, or don't enjoy, the game.

I will say that last season saw the highest rate of penalties called since 2009. It did feel noticable. I do find that I instinctively check for flags before getting excited about any given play and, I dislike that distraction.

 

[JohnnyU]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?

I seem to remember it being somewhere in the $300ish range, but returning subscribers had to threaten to quit and then you could get a discount. They also offered mid season discounts for new subscribers. Just going off a very bad memory Joe, so don't quote me on any of that.

That's roughly what I remember. Plus I know there were a few years if you had a student email address you could get it at a discount. Thanks to my alma mater for letting me take advantage of that loophole a few years past graduation

I never did it myself so no first hand experience, but had enough friends and family who did the "call and complain" trick to confirm that was also true and they would discount it for you. It was in their annual rotation along with calling the internet provider to drop them back to a normal rate as well haha.

Thanks. So now, it's $775 to get all the NFL games and it was like $350 5 years ago?

That's enough to make the NFL "horrible" now?

Double in 5 years seems high to me regardless of inflation.

Sure. Inflation sucks. But the product still feels outstanding to me. I'm trying to understand why the poster thought it was horrible.

To some, $775 is a lot of money, thus making it horrible.

Not what I'm saying.

The product may be more expensive than it was. And it might not be worth the money to some people.

But that doesn't make the product "horrible" in my opinion.

That's a problem with the Sunday Ticket package.

I think too expensive for what you get on a viewing package of games is different from the NFL product being horrible. That's what I was trying to get to.

Separate issues IMO. Between the lines the NFL product is as good as it has always been. But external factors, like cost, diminish enjoyment of the product.

Yes, that's what I've been saying. Separate issues.

I'm much more interested in the NFL as a product over whether a package to see every NFL game is too expensive. (Something that would have been insane not that long ago)

If you want to view it as the single issue: Are NFL games as a singular product still good? The answer is objectively yes.

But, there are a lot of associated issues which, have been laid out in great detail and, it can be difficult to separate those issues from the game between the lines.

I'm able to separate them.

And I'd say the overall product is not just objectively good. But better than ever.

I know that puts me in a minority here that actually likes the product and doesn't think it's horrible.

But it would seem based on viewing numbers, I'm not that much of an outlier.

It's a fascinating annual discussion.

Preaching to the choir, friend.

But, there are still plenty of legitimate things that have changed the way people enjoy, or don't enjoy, the game.

I will say that last season saw the highest rate of penalties called since 2009. It did feel noticable. I do find that I instinctively check for flags before getting excited about any given play and, I dislike that distraction.

The best referees are those you don’t notice until it is obvious they are needed.

 

[Joe Bryant]

In defense of referees, I think the difficulty is vastly underrated.

It is really hard.

The other thing I think people may underestimate is the safety factor. It’s shocking to me. We don’t have an official injured with every game.

The speed of the game and the size and velocity of the players is incredible. And for them to be in the mix of that with no protection is wild.

I had the opportunity to hold the parabolic mic on the sidelines years ago for Titans Jets game. It felt dangerous just standing on the sidelines. The size and speed were stunning.

 

[Ilov80s]

See what I mean, just a few minutes into the Lions game and it’s fun.

 

[Ilov80s]

I know people complain about the price of NFL Ticket but also for most of the NFL’s history, there wasn’t even an option to see all those games. You got a 3-4 games on Sunday, one on Monday and that was all you could see. So having more options even if they are really expensive is an improvement. I think what this ultimately is a result of is just the general age of the people on this message board and as people get older they get crankier and more nostalgic for “how things used to be”.

 

[massraider]

nostalgic for “how things used to be”.

New name for the FFA!!!

 

[Chaka]

nostalgic for “how things used to be”.

New name for the FFA!!!

Great, more changes to confuse and frighten me.

This place has been going downhill ever since they moved on from Old Yeller.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I know people complain about the price of NFL Ticket but also for most of the NFL’s history, there wasn’t even an option to see all those games. You got a 3-4 games on Sunday, one on Monday and that was all you could see. So having more options even if they are really expensive is an improvement. I think what this ultimately is a result of is just the general age of the people on this message board and as people get older they get crankier and more nostalgic for “how things used to be”.

Refs have always been beyond terrible. Players have always gotten injured. People simultaneously say the rules are too offense friendly but on the flipside any time there is a low scoring defensive game they complain that it's unwatchable. QB play is better than ever while everyone complains it's too bad to watch (20 years ago 6.5ypa with 25 TD and 10 INT was considered high level QB'ing). Parity is better than ever yet any time there is a lopsided game it is an example of how the NFL is unwatchable now, even though lopsided games used to be far more common.

I don't see how it's any less watchable than ever before, barring maybe that there are more commercials now, though that is mostly mitigated by our ability to view so many more games. Like most things, it just seems like the typical "it feels like everything used to be better even though it actually wasn't" nostalgia.

 

[Chaka]

So, what's everyone up to today?

 

[JohnnyU]

So, what's everyone up to today?

5’9” 180

 

[Chaka]

So, what's everyone up to today?

5’9” 180

I always thought you never got a fair chance in the NFL Mr. Flutie.

 

[Chaka]

YouTube TV complaint:

I like that YTTV allows you to switch between two games by holding the "Select" button. And when when you want to check out a different game you can press Down to bring up other options. BUT for some reason every other game is not shown when you do that.

For example: I have been switching between the Pit/Ind and Det/Min he's but when both went to halftime the only game still live was GB/Car but, for some reason, it wasn't an option. But, and this is true, "Live from New Birth with Dr. Jamal" and "Christopher Kimball's Milk Street Television" are options.

So, I have to back out two menus then find the GB/Car game there.

It's not a major issue but, it makes no sense.

 

[massraider]

But, there are a lot of associated issues which, have been laid out in great detail and, it can be difficult to separate those issues from the game between the lines.

It would be fascinating to see exactly what everyone would be doing today if there was no Sunday Ticket. No Red Zone. No player prop betting. No fantasy football. Those things are better than the product. Hey, I can't stand the Back In My Day Things Were Better. But I do think the product on my screen is far from the best I have seen. Basically, everything the teams have control over, I think is in questionable shape.

 

[Chaka]

It would be fascinating to see exactly what everyone would be doing today if there was no Sunday Ticket. No Red Zone. No player prop betting. No fantasy football.

Spend time with my family???

#coldshiver

 

[Chaka]

But I do think the product on my screen is far from the best I have seen. Basically, everything the teams have control over, I think is in questionable shape.

Would you mind expanding on this? What is questionable about the product on the field?

Should everything be compared to the "best" version of that thing and be found wanting?

Got some great games going today IMO.

 

[massraider]

Would you mind expanding on this? What is questionable about the product on the field?

Should everything be compared to the "best" version of that thing and be found wanting?

I didn't say or suggest anything like that. Best way to put it: Every sport has different eras, and eras get compared. And I would stipulate that the NFL in its current form, is as good or better than most if not all other pro sports. We're grading on a curve here.
I need to amend what I said about everything the owners touch is questionable. They manage TV and streaming and Red Zone and all that perfectly. Great options to view games. Aside from that:

• The anarchy around the act of Catching a Football. This would be like in soccer if no one was really sure what Offsides was. Should have a clear and easy system, and we now have officials watching a WR roll 7 yards out of bounds in case he lets go of the ball at some point. Once people are using phrases like 'A Football Move' we've lost the plot.
• The ticky-tack calls on defensive personal fouls make the game worse. Pendulum has swung too far. Called regularly for no reason other than a guy made a big hit.
• The players practice and hit less than they ever did. That's the only concession their weak union can get in contract negotiations, so we now get offenses that look awful early in the year.
• Offensive line play, the issue is not scarcity, they have always been scarce. Finding ones that can run block is the problem.
• I think the NFL is harmed more from constant turnover than any other sport, and I think the changing ownership profiles and fan expectations means that the building and patience with front offices and coaching staffs is at a low point.

The last three of these items, I think contributes to all around 'mid' on the field. I don't feel like I'm seeing GREAT offense or defense from anyone.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Today was a much better day to be watching RZ. A lot of close games all day

 

[need2know]

Bunch of good games today

 

[Chaka]

Worst.day.of.football.ever!

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Tonight's game was Exhibit A why Thursday football pretty much sucks. But I'm a sucker, and I'll be back next Thursday. But I will be because I am pretty active in fantasy. The NFL is great because fantasy and DFS underpin its value significantly. If it weren't for fantasy, the NFL might still be the best thing going in American sports, but it wouldn't be the beast that it is.

I have no interest in seeing my son play tackle football. Has anyone mentioned CTE? We're seeing firsthand, in tragic ways, the price people pay to entertain us. At some point, as a society, we may choose to no longer engage. Wouldn't surprise me.

And the refs. Make them full time professionals, extremely well trained, studying upcoming players and games, including tendencies. Add an extra ref if necessary. But improve what is otherwise a rarely well-officiated sport.

I can't see how anyone says it's great right now. It's not.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Everyone enjoy that hot garbage of a Thursday night game? Definitely needed more flags. Just awful.

 

[TampaMike19]

Last night didn’t help. I hope they get rid of divisional matchups on TNF. It tends to lead to very unpredictable and ****ty games as the teams already know each other and have history. I have a feeling the NFL is squeezing divisional games on TNF to reduce prep time and “increase the stakes” but the product is garbage.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Last night didn’t help. I hope they get rid of divisional matchups on TNF. It tends to lead to very unpredictable and ****ty games as the teams already know each other and have history. I have a feeling the NFL is squeezing divisional games on TNF to reduce prep time and “increase the stakes” but the product is garbage.

Why can't they have teams coming off Bye weeks play the TNF games?
They get 10 days off going in and about 10 days after to recoup
It's been suggested around here before but I haven't seen it mentioned lately

 

[jobarules]

The NFL product has gotten worse and worse over the years due to all the extra games, thu games, MNF doubleheader culminating in tons of injuries and lack of quality players on the field.

This week took the cake. Between the 3 prime time games, the 4pm blowouts, and the general lack of excitement. If it wasn't for fantasy football I dont think id even watch anymore.

Somehow the NBA passed NFL in excitement factor which is wild to me.

 

[-OZ-]

Last night didn’t help. I hope they get rid of divisional matchups on TNF. It tends to lead to very unpredictable and ****ty games as the teams already know each other and have history. I have a feeling the NFL is squeezing divisional games on TNF to reduce prep time and “increase the stakes” but the product is garbage.

Why can't they have teams coming off Bye weeks play the TNF games?
They get 10 days off going in and about 10 days after to recoup
It's been suggested around here before but I haven't seen it mentioned lately

This just seems too easy. It might not work for everyone, but bye to TNF or MNF to bye should be the standard. Obviously bye to TNF is better but we don’t need two TNF games, while there are often 4 or more teams on bye.

 

[Stoneworker]

This thread is such BS

Someone please tell me with a straight face that this week's lineup of Chiefs v. Broncos, Rams v. Seahawks, Chargers v. Jags, Lions v. Eagles, Bucs v. Bills and Vikings v. Bears isn't going to be exciting

 

[Chaka]

The NFL product has gotten worse and worse over the years due to all the extra games, thu games, MNF doubleheader culminating in tons of injuries and lack of quality players on the field.

This week took the cake. Between the 3 prime time games, the 4pm blowouts, and the general lack of excitement. If it wasn't for fantasy football I dont think id even watch anymore.

Somehow the NBA passed NFL in excitement factor which is wild to me.

It doesn't always work out the way the schedulers plan it. Luck of the draw.

There were a bunch of very compelling games this week.

ATL @ IND was a great game. NYG @ CHI, NE @ TB, & JAX @ HOU were all good games. Heck even the toilet bowl between the Browns & Jets had a ton of excitement despite terrible QB play.

It sucks when the Prime Time games don't pan out and, I will never understand why the NFL puts so few games in the afternoon window but, you can't cherry pick the bad games and pretend the good ones didn't happen.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The NFL product has gotten worse and worse over the years due to all the extra games, thu games, MNF doubleheader culminating in tons of injuries and lack of quality players on the field.

This week took the cake. Between the 3 prime time games, the 4pm blowouts, and the general lack of excitement. If it wasn't for fantasy football I dont think id even watch anymore.

Somehow the NBA passed NFL in excitement factor which is wild to me.

Interesting.

I don't know how many people are like you @jobarules @Houston turmOiler and @-OZ- and dislike it so much.

I'm interested too, if the product is that bad, what is the draw for a forum like this that talks mostly exclusively about the product that you feel is that terrible?

I'm glad y'all are here of course. Just wondering about the draw of the forum.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Last night didn’t help. I hope they get rid of divisional matchups on TNF. It tends to lead to very unpredictable and ****ty games as the teams already know each other and have history. I have a feeling the NFL is squeezing divisional games on TNF to reduce prep time and “increase the stakes” but the product is garbage.

Why can't they have teams coming off Bye weeks play the TNF games?
They get 10 days off going in and about 10 days after to recoup
It's been suggested around here before but I haven't seen it mentioned lately

This just seems too easy. It might not work for everyone, but bye to TNF or MNF to bye should be the standard. Obviously bye to TNF is better but we don’t need two TNF games, while there are often 4 or more teams on bye.

Not everyone on Bye weeks, just two teams that are coming off their Bye which back in the day, there was no Bye week, this was done for profits, pure and simple
Add more weeks to a 16 or 17 or 18 game schedule and they can stretch it out over 20 Sundays or whatever, there is also talk of 2 Bye weeks
I am not in favor of expanding TNF

-I understand HS football and all but they also could simply move the game back to Friday Nights and obliterate just about every network
I cannot imagine walking off the field with aches and pains everywhere and have to jump immediately into practice on Mon/Tue, walk thru Wed and boom you play Thursday
Somebody was greedy as hell when they came up with this idea

 

[jobarules]

The NFL product has gotten worse and worse over the years due to all the extra games, thu games, MNF doubleheader culminating in tons of injuries and lack of quality players on the field.

This week took the cake. Between the 3 prime time games, the 4pm blowouts, and the general lack of excitement. If it wasn't for fantasy football I dont think id even watch anymore.

Somehow the NBA passed NFL in excitement factor which is wild to me.

Interesting.

I don't know how many people are like you @jobarules @Houston turmOiler and @-OZ- and dislike it so much.

I'm interested too, if the product is that bad, what is the draw for a forum like this that talks mostly exclusively about the product that you feel is that terrible?

I'm glad y'all are here of course. Just wondering about the draw of the forum.

Didn't I answer that question in my post? Im here for fantasy football exclusively.

 

[Chaka]

I wonder if there are enough posts in this thread to determine if people complain more about the quality of NFL games when their fantasy players underperform expectations?

Let's see some rosters and put ChatGPT on the job!