The San Antonio Raiders (1 Viewer)

[TheIronSheik]

I don't want to clutter up the FFA with NFL talk, but I thought this conversation would be bigger than just football.

What's everyone's thoughts on the Raiders possibly moving to Texas? I know the Raiders have bounced around Cali, but they have always been a west coast team. Is it a bad move for the NFL to have a big name franchise move to another city in this day and age? And if they leave, would Oakland ever land another team?

I know teams like the Oilers and the Colts moved, but (no offense to them) they are no Raiders. Right? Thought?

 

[VA703]

Aren’t there enough mediocre football teams in Texas?

 

[TheIronSheik]

Another question would be: As a current Raiders fan, who would your new team be, if any?

 

[Quez]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

SA is the 7th largest city in the US. I'm not sure they'd have a problem drawing people.

 

[jon_mx]

Might have to change the name from Raiders to Martyrs.

 

[lod01]

Followed by the Oakland Jaguars.

 

[Slapdash]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

SA is the 7th largest city in the US. I'm not sure they'd have a problem drawing people.

25th largest MSA, which is what matters more.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

SA is the 7th largest city in the US. I'm not sure they'd have a problem drawing people.

25th largest MSA, which is what matters more.

What is MSA?

 

[Slapdash]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

SA is the 7th largest city in the US. I'm not sure they'd have a problem drawing people.

25th largest MSA, which is what matters more.

What is MSA?

Metro statistical area

 

[Cjw_55106]

No way Jerry Jones just sits by and watches a team move into SA.

 

[GoFishTN]

It's just a threat to get a new stadium. This is how the NFL has operated for years.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

SA is the 7th largest city in the US. I'm not sure they'd have a problem drawing people.

25th largest MSA, which is what matters more.

What is MSA?

Metro statistical area

Why would that matter more than population?

 

[TheIronSheik]

It's just a threat to get a new stadium. This is how the NFL has operated for years.

Sure. I'm not saying it's a done deal. It was more of a "What if..." question.

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

I'd just move them to Philadelphia.

 

[igbomb]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

SA is the 7th largest city in the US. I'm not sure they'd have a problem drawing people.

25th largest MSA, which is what matters more.

What is MSA?

Metro statistical area

Why would that matter more than population?

He's talking population. But he's saying that the population of the metro area is more telling than the population of the specific city.

Many of the northern cities have smaller populations with massive suburbs.

Example: Detroit population is about 700K. The metro area is 3.7M. Which one of those numbers is more important in figuring out capacity to support a sports team?

 

[Bojang0301]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

Having formerly lived in the Seattle region I can tell you that it can easily support basketball and would be one of the highest attendance of the league. Their MLS attendance rivals that of Euro clubs. They feverishly love their sports teams.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

SA is the 7th largest city in the US. I'm not sure they'd have a problem drawing people.

25th largest MSA, which is what matters more.

What is MSA?

Metro statistical area

Why would that matter more than population?

Because people from the suburbs buy tickets and watch games.

 

[GoFishTN]

It's just a threat to get a new stadium. This is how the NFL has operated for years.

Sure. I'm not saying it's a done deal. It was more of a "What if..." question.

In that case, as mentioned SA is the 25th biggest MSA. Cincy, KC, Indy, Tenn, Jax, NO, Buff, and GB are all lower, so they would do fine.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Buh Bye?

 

[TenTimes]

The Vikings were going to move there too about 10 years ago. How's the saying go?

Fool me once...

 

[NutterButter]

Championship within 3 years with Popovich as the coach

 

[Chadstroma]

I don't see it happening. But to be fair, I may be blinded by my own prejudices. That being said, here is my thinking...

1) I still see the greater L.A. area being the smart move. There has been a lot of movement on prepping for a team back in L.A. and the Raiders still have a huge fanbase there not to mention being the second biggest market in the country which this time around they would own to themselves and not be stuck in another crappy stadium like last time.

2) What I have read, does not feel more to me than doing due diligence. If you have a city coming to you to say hey- we got this great deal for you. You listen. It does not mean you go. Plus, while you listen it could help strengthen your position elsewhere.

3) Let's say it is a move they want to do- I don't see them getting the votes. The Cowboys and Texans will be against it and I am sure they could rally another 5 teams to side with them.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Actually I raised this in TSP.

And for some reason an older thread got locked.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=388326&hl=%2Bsan+%2Bantonio

The Vikings were going to move there too about 10 years ago. How's the saying go?

Fool me once...

One major difference here is that the city of Oakland seems even more unwilling to build a new stadium that Minny and the stadium is even older than the HHH.

The Raiders will have to move.

 

[TheIronSheik]

The Vikings were going to move there too about 10 years ago. How's the saying go?

Fool me once...

Yeah. I remember when teams like Edmonton and Pittsburgh kept saying they were going to move to Houston when I lived there. I fell for it every time.

But, again, this is more of a "What if..." question. Similar to the one I had about the A's moving to Philadelphia. Although, that one didn't turn out like I planned, either.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I don't see it happening. But to be fair, I may be blinded by my own prejudices. That being said, here is my thinking...

1) I still see the greater L.A. area being the smart move. There has been a lot of movement on prepping for a team back in L.A. and the Raiders still have a huge fanbase there not to mention being the second biggest market in the country which this time around they would own to themselves and not be stuck in another crappy stadium like last time.

2) What I have read, does not feel more to me than doing due diligence. If you have a city coming to you to say hey- we got this great deal for you. You listen. It does not mean you go. Plus, while you listen it could help strengthen your position elsewhere.

3) Let's say it is a move they want to do- I don't see them getting the votes. The Cowboys and Texans will be against it and I am sure they could rally another 5 teams to side with them.

This always confuses me. Why would they care? Are they stealing fans that would normally pay for their tickets? San Antonio is not THAT close to these cities.

 

[TenTimes]

I think it would oversaturate the San Antonio market. Certain cities can only handle 1 sports team, like SA & OK City. They all act like they want the teams, but will likely have attendance issues with 1 of the teams.

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

Having formerly lived in the Seattle region I can tell you that it can easily support basketball and would be one of the highest attendance of the league. Their MLS attendance rivals that of Euro clubs. They feverishly love their sports teams.

Now it's more like they love their football/soccer. Baseball attendance is horrible despite them finally being in contention this season, averaging about 50% capacity at the stadium. Tampa and Cleveland are lower.

The SF Giants on the other hand, Seattle needs to copy whatever they are doing. Leading the league with 99.3% capacity on the season.

 

[GoFishTN]

Bonus, they can drop a letter and resurrect a great logo.

 

[Joe Summer]

It's all a ploy to motivate Tatum Oakland.

 

[Abraham]

San Antonio would be an awful NFL market. The sa area has perhaps the widest gap of income in the country - there are a lot of rich people and a ton of poor people and not a lot of middle. The stuff with McNair on espn is worth reporting because it would impact the afc broadcasts. But this is cowboys country anyway.

 

[TenTimes]

The Vikings were going to move there too about 10 years ago. How's the saying go?

Fool me once...

Yeah. I remember when teams like Edmonton and Pittsburgh kept saying they were going to move to Houston when I lived there. I fell for it every time.

But, again, this is more of a "What if..." question. Similar to the one I had about the A's moving to Philadelphia. Although, that one didn't turn out like I planned, either.

What I'd be interested to see is how well the Raiders convert the Cowboy fans in SA. Most all football families in SA have been Dallas fans for generations.

The Saints did very well that one season they played in the Alamodome after Katrina, I think the Raiders too would be a big draw, just curious to see how fandom went. Would they try to keep the black hole and encourage fans to dress like Legion of Doom to keep that tradition going or would it fade away. I'd miss that.

 

[TheIronSheik]

The Vikings were going to move there too about 10 years ago. How's the saying go?

Fool me once...

Yeah. I remember when teams like Edmonton and Pittsburgh kept saying they were going to move to Houston when I lived there. I fell for it every time.

But, again, this is more of a "What if..." question. Similar to the one I had about the A's moving to Philadelphia. Although, that one didn't turn out like I planned, either.

What I'd be interested to see is how well the Raiders convert the Cowboy fans in SA. Most all football families in SA have been Dallas fans for generations.

The Saints did very well that one season they played in the Alamodome after Katrina, I think the Raiders too would be a big draw, just curious to see how fandom went. Would they try to keep the black hole and encourage fans to dress like Legion of Doom to keep that tradition going or would it fade away. I'd miss that.

This is a good point. Would they even keep the Raiders name. How crappy would it be if the Raiders became a defunct NFL team name. :(

 

[Treynwreck3]

San Antonio would be an awful NFL market. The sa area has perhaps the widest gap of income in the country - there are a lot of rich people and a ton of poor people and not a lot of middle. The stuff with McNair on espn is worth reporting because it would impact the afc broadcasts. But this is cowboys country anyway.

Who goes to NFL games? Middle class? Pfft. San Antonio would likely put the new stadium on the northeast side towards New Braunfels and greater yet, Austin. There are plenty enough affluent people in the SA/Austin area to support a team. Would it dig into JJones skin to put a team in SA/Austin? You bet. However, logistically, how many people really make the drive to D/FW on a regular basis to watch an NFL game? Or Houston?

The SA/Austin area has historically been Cowboys country. The Texans do not draw from that area, so McNair wouldn't really give a damn. Hell, it may make his franchise even more desirable, as you would create another natural rival to go with New Orleans and Dallas.

I think it is a great idea. Will it happen? Not likely. But to say that SA/Austin cannot or would not support an NFL franchise is ludicrous.

 

[Tom Servo]

It's all a ploy to motivate Tatum Oakland.

I haven't seen that shtick used in years. :golfclap:

 

[Treynwreck3]

The Vikings were going to move there too about 10 years ago. How's the saying go?

Fool me once...

Yeah. I remember when teams like Edmonton and Pittsburgh kept saying they were going to move to Houston when I lived there. I fell for it every time.

But, again, this is more of a "What if..." question. Similar to the one I had about the A's moving to Philadelphia. Although, that one didn't turn out like I planned, either.

What I'd be interested to see is how well the Raiders convert the Cowboy fans in SA. Most all football families in SA have been Dallas fans for generations.

The Saints did very well that one season they played in the Alamodome after Katrina, I think the Raiders too would be a big draw, just curious to see how fandom went. Would they try to keep the black hole and encourage fans to dress like Legion of Doom to keep that tradition going or would it fade away. I'd miss that.

San Antonio would embrace the whole Raider attitude, no doubt. Play the evil empire stigma against the "holy" blue star and the antiseptic Texans persona. I can see where it would work well.

 

[Don Quixote]

The Vikings were going to move there too about 10 years ago. How's the saying go?

Fool me once...

Yeah. I remember when teams like Edmonton and Pittsburgh kept saying they were going to move to Houston when I lived there. I fell for it every time.

But, again, this is more of a "What if..." question. Similar to the one I had about the A's moving to Philadelphia. Although, that one didn't turn out like I planned, either.

What I'd be interested to see is how well the Raiders convert the Cowboy fans in SA. Most all football families in SA have been Dallas fans for generations.

The Saints did very well that one season they played in the Alamodome after Katrina, I think the Raiders too would be a big draw, just curious to see how fandom went. Would they try to keep the black hole and encourage fans to dress like Legion of Doom to keep that tradition going or would it fade away. I'd miss that.

This is a good point. Would they even keep the Raiders name. How crappy would it be if the Raiders became a defunct NFL team name. :(

I think it will stay the Raiders as long as the Davis family still owns it.

 

[Slapdash]

I don't see it happening. But to be fair, I may be blinded by my own prejudices. That being said, here is my thinking...

1) I still see the greater L.A. area being the smart move. There has been a lot of movement on prepping for a team back in L.A. and the Raiders still have a huge fanbase there not to mention being the second biggest market in the country which this time around they would own to themselves and not be stuck in another crappy stadium like last time.

2) What I have read, does not feel more to me than doing due diligence. If you have a city coming to you to say hey- we got this great deal for you. You listen. It does not mean you go. Plus, while you listen it could help strengthen your position elsewhere.

3) Let's say it is a move they want to do- I don't see them getting the votes. The Cowboys and Texans will be against it and I am sure they could rally another 5 teams to side with them.

This always confuses me. Why would they care? Are they stealing fans that would normally pay for their tickets? San Antonio is not THAT close to these cities.

I'd guess most people in SA are already fans of one of those two teams.

 

[TenTimes]

It'd be so weird.. San Antonio fans would for half a year cheer for maybe the classiest organization in all of sports during basketball season, and one of the least classy in the offseason.

Could be just what the city needs, though.

 

[matuski]

I don't see it happening. But to be fair, I may be blinded by my own prejudices. That being said, here is my thinking...

1) I still see the greater L.A. area being the smart move. There has been a lot of movement on prepping for a team back in L.A. and the Raiders still have a huge fanbase there not to mention being the second biggest market in the country which this time around they would own to themselves and not be stuck in another crappy stadium like last time.

2) What I have read, does not feel more to me than doing due diligence. If you have a city coming to you to say hey- we got this great deal for you. You listen. It does not mean you go. Plus, while you listen it could help strengthen your position elsewhere.

3) Let's say it is a move they want to do- I don't see them getting the votes. The Cowboys and Texans will be against it and I am sure they could rally another 5 teams to side with them.

This always confuses me. Why would they care? Are they stealing fans that would normally pay for their tickets? San Antonio is not THAT close to these cities.

I'd guess most people in SA are already fans of one of those two teams.

This is the case. About 70% Cowboy, 20% Texan, 10% other. Cowboys used to host their camp here.

This is all hard to take seriously, as it has become an annual occurrence for rumors about someone (usually Red McCombs) moving an NFL team here. I'll believe it when I see it.

ETA - would need a new stadium or a drastic renovation project in the Alamodome.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The Vikings were going to move there too about 10 years ago. How's the saying go?

Fool me once...

Yeah. I remember when teams like Edmonton and Pittsburgh kept saying they were going to move to Houston when I lived there. I fell for it every time.

But, again, this is more of a "What if..." question. Similar to the one I had about the A's moving to Philadelphia. Although, that one didn't turn out like I planned, either.

What I'd be interested to see is how well the Raiders convert the Cowboy fans in SA. Most all football families in SA have been Dallas fans for generations.

The Saints did very well that one season they played in the Alamodome after Katrina, I think the Raiders too would be a big draw, just curious to see how fandom went. Would they try to keep the black hole and encourage fans to dress like Legion of Doom to keep that tradition going or would it fade away. I'd miss that.

San Antonio would embrace the whole Raider attitude, no doubt. Play the evil empire stigma against the "holy" blue star and the antiseptic Texans persona. I can see where it would work well.

Agree - automatic rivalry.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I don't see it happening. But to be fair, I may be blinded by my own prejudices. That being said, here is my thinking...

1) I still see the greater L.A. area being the smart move. There has been a lot of movement on prepping for a team back in L.A. and the Raiders still have a huge fanbase there not to mention being the second biggest market in the country which this time around they would own to themselves and not be stuck in another crappy stadium like last time.

2) What I have read, does not feel more to me than doing due diligence. If you have a city coming to you to say hey- we got this great deal for you. You listen. It does not mean you go. Plus, while you listen it could help strengthen your position elsewhere.

3) Let's say it is a move they want to do- I don't see them getting the votes. The Cowboys and Texans will be against it and I am sure they could rally another 5 teams to side with them.

This always confuses me. Why would they care? Are they stealing fans that would normally pay for their tickets? San Antonio is not THAT close to these cities.

I'd guess most people in SA are already fans of one of those two teams.

I think this would be true of any city.

 

[Bucky86]

We don't want you in L.A.

 

[Slapdash]

The Vikings were going to move there too about 10 years ago. How's the saying go?

Fool me once...

Yeah. I remember when teams like Edmonton and Pittsburgh kept saying they were going to move to Houston when I lived there. I fell for it every time.

But, again, this is more of a "What if..." question. Similar to the one I had about the A's moving to Philadelphia. Although, that one didn't turn out like I planned, either.

What I'd be interested to see is how well the Raiders convert the Cowboy fans in SA. Most all football families in SA have been Dallas fans for generations.

The Saints did very well that one season they played in the Alamodome after Katrina, I think the Raiders too would be a big draw, just curious to see how fandom went. Would they try to keep the black hole and encourage fans to dress like Legion of Doom to keep that tradition going or would it fade away. I'd miss that.

San Antonio would embrace the whole Raider attitude, no doubt. Play the evil empire stigma against the "holy" blue star and the antiseptic Texans persona. I can see where it would work well.

Agree - automatic rivalry.

when they play once every four years...

 

[Tom Servo]

Regardless where they play, they'd still suck.

 

[Slapdash]

I don't see it happening. But to be fair, I may be blinded by my own prejudices. That being said, here is my thinking...

1) I still see the greater L.A. area being the smart move. There has been a lot of movement on prepping for a team back in L.A. and the Raiders still have a huge fanbase there not to mention being the second biggest market in the country which this time around they would own to themselves and not be stuck in another crappy stadium like last time.

2) What I have read, does not feel more to me than doing due diligence. If you have a city coming to you to say hey- we got this great deal for you. You listen. It does not mean you go. Plus, while you listen it could help strengthen your position elsewhere.

3) Let's say it is a move they want to do- I don't see them getting the votes. The Cowboys and Texans will be against it and I am sure they could rally another 5 teams to side with them.

This always confuses me. Why would they care? Are they stealing fans that would normally pay for their tickets? San Antonio is not THAT close to these cities.

I'd guess most people in SA are already fans of one of those two teams.

I think this would be true of any city.

More true of some cities than others. Given the strength of the Dallas brand and relatively recent expansion of Houston, I'd guess another city in Texas is one of the worst locations. There aren't a lot of good options out there though.

 

[comfortably numb]

It's all a ploy to motivate Tatum Oakland.

lol, it's been like 8 years and I still chuckle when i see these

 

[TheIronSheik]

I don't see it happening. But to be fair, I may be blinded by my own prejudices. That being said, here is my thinking...

1) I still see the greater L.A. area being the smart move. There has been a lot of movement on prepping for a team back in L.A. and the Raiders still have a huge fanbase there not to mention being the second biggest market in the country which this time around they would own to themselves and not be stuck in another crappy stadium like last time.

2) What I have read, does not feel more to me than doing due diligence. If you have a city coming to you to say hey- we got this great deal for you. You listen. It does not mean you go. Plus, while you listen it could help strengthen your position elsewhere.

3) Let's say it is a move they want to do- I don't see them getting the votes. The Cowboys and Texans will be against it and I am sure they could rally another 5 teams to side with them.

This always confuses me. Why would they care? Are they stealing fans that would normally pay for their tickets? San Antonio is not THAT close to these cities.

I'd guess most people in SA are already fans of one of those two teams.

I think this would be true of any city.

More true of some cities than others. Given the strength of the Dallas brand and relatively recent expansion of Houston, I'd guess another city in Texas is one of the worst locations. There aren't a lot of good options out there though.

The Dallas brand is everywhere. Besides, they are most likely only fans because they don't have a team to support of their own.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The Vikings were going to move there too about 10 years ago. How's the saying go?

Fool me once...

Yeah. I remember when teams like Edmonton and Pittsburgh kept saying they were going to move to Houston when I lived there. I fell for it every time.

But, again, this is more of a "What if..." question. Similar to the one I had about the A's moving to Philadelphia. Although, that one didn't turn out like I planned, either.

What I'd be interested to see is how well the Raiders convert the Cowboy fans in SA. Most all football families in SA have been Dallas fans for generations.

The Saints did very well that one season they played in the Alamodome after Katrina, I think the Raiders too would be a big draw, just curious to see how fandom went. Would they try to keep the black hole and encourage fans to dress like Legion of Doom to keep that tradition going or would it fade away. I'd miss that.

San Antonio would embrace the whole Raider attitude, no doubt. Play the evil empire stigma against the "holy" blue star and the antiseptic Texans persona. I can see where it would work well.

Agree - automatic rivalry.

when they play once every four years...

Well, to be clear I meant the fans more than the teams.

 

[NewlyRetired]

This happened to Seattle & Tampa, but with more teams. Tampa could support he Bucs and Lightning, but when the Rays came it became diluted. Seattle couldn't support baseball, football & basketball.

Seattle can't support an NBA team but the Sounders can average over 40k a game? That does not make any sense. Seattle can most certainly support an NBA team.

 

[Mister CIA]

San Antonio/Austin could support an NFL franchise. I would think the city and Riverwalk merchants would fully fund first-rate shuttle service between the two cities.This would be a great oppportunity to prototype high-speed rail in the US too, but that's a totally different conversation.

San Antonio is overwhelmingly Cowboy country but fans would drop them like a hot potato if SA got a team.

Were it up to me I'd name the team The Vatos.

If the Raiders move, there's no way they go anywhere but Los Angeles. It would not surprise me at all if Goodell and owners were doing everything possible to ensure that Oakland does not pony up funds for a new stadium.