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The Tea Party is back in business! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Saul Alinsky - thehero of most on that list-guy most on that list have never heard of would be proud.
Of all the right wing obsessions these days, this one might be the most laughable. How did this little unknown Jewish guy, who spent his life trying to help poor people improve their misery just slightly, become such a figure of diabolical evil? At least it lets George Soros off the hook.BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Where will these social conservative anti-critical-thinking types try and hide next? Bet you they start dreaming up some "third party" nonsense.
timschochet
Footballguy
http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/hillary-clinton-welcome-to-the-white-house-20131017
"Hillary Clinton, welcome to the White House"
The theme of this article is that if Hillary decides to run in 2016, it will be the biggest shoo-in easy victory for a new candidate since Eisenhower in 1952. There is no one on the Democratic side that would likely even challenge her. But more importantly, this shutdown story has demonstrated that no Republican with a chance of winning, like Chris Christie or Jeb Bush, will get past the primaries- either they will have to sell their souls the way McCain and Romney did, or we will see some Tea Party candidate like Cruz, Paul or Rubio who will get creamed in the general.
"Hillary Clinton, welcome to the White House"
The theme of this article is that if Hillary decides to run in 2016, it will be the biggest shoo-in easy victory for a new candidate since Eisenhower in 1952. There is no one on the Democratic side that would likely even challenge her. But more importantly, this shutdown story has demonstrated that no Republican with a chance of winning, like Chris Christie or Jeb Bush, will get past the primaries- either they will have to sell their souls the way McCain and Romney did, or we will see some Tea Party candidate like Cruz, Paul or Rubio who will get creamed in the general.
Flying Spaghetti Monster
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Myself, I'm not so sure. I still think that if Chris Christie could somehow weather the storm of the Republican primaries, he would be a very formidable national candidate. Remember how Bill Clinton had his "Sista Souljah" moment? That symbolized the exact point when the Democratic leadership finally distanced themselves from the 60s radicals that had dominated that party for two decades. If Christie could have that same sort of moment against the Tea Party, there are plenty of Republican voters that would flock to him.
timschochet
Footballguy
I doubt she'd run against Hillary. I think they're pretty good friends. But Warren is far too progressive IMO ever to be elected President. Unlike Obama, who Republicans accuse of being far to the left but is actually a centrist, Warren really is far to the left.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
John McCain was asked by about recent rancor in Congress, among Republicans, and in particular Louie Gohmert (R-TX)
SEN. JOHN McCain: "Well on that particular issue, sometimes comments like that are made out of malice but if someone has no intelligence, it cannot be viewed as a malicious statement."
And while this could cover a large switch of the anti-critical-thinkers.... he is wrong. Despite McCain trying to maintain a bit of levity about it these acts and words are still malicious.
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BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Flying Spaghetti Monster
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
I feel a little bit sorry for the KooKs.....
No way Hillary runs. I am sorry, but she is to old to be considered IMO.. She would be 69, no way she gets the nomination. IMO
Rush Limbaugh Fan
Footballguy
You would be surprised. Women would come out in droves to vote for them.
I'm all for it. Hillary followed by Warren in the Oval Office could do this country some good.
Rush Limbaugh Fan
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
Rush Limbaugh Fan
Footballguy
Glenn Beck
Saul Alinsky - thehero of most on that list-guy most on that list have never heard of would be proud.
You're probably right, but it would be cool. Possible to get the nomination one day. Even Dean was a front-runner until the media buried him.
Fennis
Footballguy
She wont run and if somehow she decided to run, she would lose the nomination to someone else, and if somehow that didnt happen she would get crushed in the general.
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apalmer
Footballguy
..and if she somehow won, she wouldn't be able to take it for the full 4 years, and if she somehow did, she'd never run for a second term.....
She wont run and if somehow she decided to run, she would lose the nomination to someone else, and if somehow that didnt happen she would get crushed in the general.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Granny Warren's act won't play nationally and from her performance MA campaign I'm guessing the Clintons will give her a good working overFlying Spaghetti Monster said:
timschochet
Footballguy
And now, the backlash begins:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/the-conservative-war-on-the-gop/280637/
On his radio show recently, Glenn Beck urged his listeners to “defund the GOP.” Sarah Palin has threatened to leave the Republican Party; Rush Limbaugh calls it “irrelevant.” The Senate Conservatives Fund has targeted mainly incumbent Republican senators for defeat. Erick Erickson, one of the right’s most prominent commentators, wonders if what's coming is “a real third party movement that will fully divide the Republican Party.”
Conservatives have declared war on the GOP.
Tired of feeling taken for granted by a party that alternately panders to them and sells them down the river, in their view, Tea Partiers and others on the right are in revolt. The Republican Party itself is increasingly the focus of their anger, particularly after Wednesday's deal to reopen the government, which many on the right opposed. Now, many are threatening to take their business elsewhere.
“Conservatives are either going to split [from the GOP] or stay home,” Erickson, the influential editor of RedState.com and a Fox News contributor, told me. “They’ll first expend energy in primaries, but if unsuccessful, they’ll bolt.”
Erickson, a former Republican elected official in Georgia, stressed that he wasn’t advocating such a split, only foreseeing it. “I think the GOP is already splitting,” he said, with grassroots activists feeling “played” by elected officials’ unfulfilled promises to defeat Obamacare.
The calls for a split mark a new, more acrimonious chapter in the long-simmering conflict between the Tea Party and the Republican establishment. Steve Deace, an Iowa-based talk-radio host, said his audience has never been angrier. “They’re tired of electing a bunch of Republicans who care more about what the media thinks about them than what the people who elected them think,” he told me. “Why do I care whether John Boehner or Nancy Pelosi is the speaker of the House? Why do I care whether Harry Reid or ‘Ditch’ McConnell is the Senate majority leader? What changes? Nothing changes.”
To Deace, “political-party disintegration” is on the horizon. And he’s not alone: Sean Hannity, on his radio show on Monday, said he’d previously opposed a third party, but “I’m not so sure anymore. It may be time for a new conservative party in America. I’m sick of these guys.” Ann Coulter’s new book is titled Never Trust a Liberal Over 3—Especially a Republican. Groups like the Senate Conservatives Fund and Heritage Action wear their contempt for GOP elites as a point of pride, and spend the bulk of their resources campaigning against rather than for Republican officeholders.
The Republican establishment, these conservatives say, doesn’t seem to understand that the Tea Party isn’t a wing of the GOP. “It’s an autonomous force,” said Jenny Beth Martin, national coordinator of the Tea Party Patriots. In emails and conversations across the country, Martin told me, she’s hearing more rumblings about taking the Tea Party out from under the GOP than ever before, though the organization hasn’t taken a position on it. “When either party is doing the right thing, the Tea Party stands with them," she said. "And when either party is doing the wrong thing, we hold them accountable.”
The recent government shutdown, and the infighting it laid bare between Republican factions, convinced many conservatives that the institutional GOP would rather sell them out than stick up for them. “There are two views on the right. One says more Republicans is better; the other says better Republicans is better,” said Dean Clancy, vice president of public policy for the Tea Party group FreedomWorks. “One view focuses on the number of Republicans in the Senate, the other on the amount of fight in the senators.”
When Beck made his appeal to "defund the GOP," he told his listeners to stop giving money to Republican committees and give to FreedomWorks instead. "We kind of agree," Clancy told me. “Giving to the party committees is wasted money, because they’re just incumbent protection clubs .... Sometimes you have to beat the Republicans before you beat the Democrats. Just because they're 'our guys' doesn’t mean they'll be our guys when it counts."
Dissatisfaction within the ranks appears to be one driving factor in the record-low approval numbers recorded for the Republican Party in several recent polls. A Gallup poll last week, for example, found just 28 percent of Americans had a favorable opinion of the GOP, the lowest level of support in the two decades Gallup has asked that question. Among Republicans, 27 percent saw their party unfavorably—twice the percentage of Democrats who held a dim view of their own party.
To some Republican institutionalists who have long seen the Tea Party as a destructive force, the talk of a schism merely confirms what they've always suspected—that these activists are a radical, destabilizing force, nihilists devoid of loyalty. Some, like the renegade moderate David Frum, urge the Tea Party to go ahead and leave: “Right now, tea party extremism contaminates the whole Republican brand,” Frum wrote on CNN.com this week, wondering “whether a tea party bolt from the GOP might not just liberate the party to slide back to the political center.” Representative Charles Boustany of Louisiana lashed out at his intransigent colleagues Wednesday, telling National Journal, “I’m not sure they’re Republicans and I’m not sure they’re conservative.”
But most party loyalists seek to placate and explain the Tea Party fervor, and to urge the rebels back into the fold. Ed Gillespie, a former Republican National Committee chairman and George W. Bush aide, said he understood where they were coming from. “A lot of them are new to the process,” Gillespie told me. “They weren’t Young Republicans or College Republicans. They didn’t come up through Republican clubs, and they feel that the Republican Party in the past has not fought hard enough or stood firm enough on these issues.”
Gillespie chalked the tensions up to the party being out of power and lacking a unifying leader; he pointed to similar dislocations in the past, including Ross Perot's third-party candidacies in the 1990s. “I would rather have them trying to shake up the existing party than run as third-party candidates—that would be completely self-defeating,” he said. “We live in a two-party system in the United States. If you’re going to translate your ideas, your beliefs, your principles into policy, it’s got to be done through the electoral process, and that involves participating in a political party.”
Gillespie and others said party institutions have been weakened by changes in campaign-finance law. (The ostensible head of the Republican Party, RNC Chairman Reince Priebus, did not respond to requests for comment for this story.) They noted that the pragmatists and the Tea Partiers don’t disagree on policy, only on what tactics will make the most progress possible toward goals like reducing spending and reversing Obamacare. And they pointed out that conservatives stand little chance of winning elections outside the two-party framework—though their pleas for unity signaled an awareness that Republicans might be equally crippled by the loss of their ideological base.
"Everybody understands standing your ground, hoisting your flag, and making your stand, but at some point, you have to decide if your stand is sustainable."
“Everybody understands standing your ground, hoisting your flag, and making your stand, but at some point, you have to decide if your stand is sustainable,” said Ari Fleischer, the former George W. Bush press secretary. “A lot of people who got elected in 2010 came to Washington as conservatives, not as Republicans. They came to change what was wrong in Washington—they don’t have the same expectations or practical goals as others.” But as for the threats of deserting the GOP, Fleischer said, “I don’t know what that means. Are they going to start a third party? What’s the chances of success for that?”
Some establishmentarians worry the Tea Partiers are already blithely driving the GOP into the ground. “I don’t think they care about the party. I think they care about issues and philosophies,” said Tom Davis, a former congressman from Virginia and onetime chair of the National Republican Congressional Committee. “I have a philsophy, too. But parties are coalitions. What they would like is for the party to be a private club with a litmus test .... The party they would design would be a regional party that would not be viable in many parts of the country.”
Tim Pawlenty, the former Minnesota governor and Republican presidential candidate, blamed “gerrymandered districts” and “the political news-entertainment complex” for empowering passionate minorities within both parties. “If you’re a libertarian or a Tea Partier, you tend to be skeptical toward anything viewed as the establishment, so to the extent you view the traditional Republican Party as the establishment, it follows that there’s room for skepticism,” he said. “But neither party can be successful unless they can get a reasonable amount of support from the whole coalition.”
In the Tea Partiers’ view, the clueless establishment hasn’t yet internalized the seriousness of the threat to its supremacy. The grassroots has taken control, and it will have its way or secede. “This is where the wind is blowing,” Deace said. “I don’t think you can put Humpty Dumpty back together again. People like me are not just taking marching orders anymore—they actually want something in return for a vote.”
It will not be possible, Deace predicted, for the two factions to coexist. “This is going to end in divorce,” he said. “One side is going to win control, one side is going to lose, and the losing side will go do something else. There will not be a reunification.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/the-conservative-war-on-the-gop/280637/
On his radio show recently, Glenn Beck urged his listeners to “defund the GOP.” Sarah Palin has threatened to leave the Republican Party; Rush Limbaugh calls it “irrelevant.” The Senate Conservatives Fund has targeted mainly incumbent Republican senators for defeat. Erick Erickson, one of the right’s most prominent commentators, wonders if what's coming is “a real third party movement that will fully divide the Republican Party.”
Conservatives have declared war on the GOP.
Tired of feeling taken for granted by a party that alternately panders to them and sells them down the river, in their view, Tea Partiers and others on the right are in revolt. The Republican Party itself is increasingly the focus of their anger, particularly after Wednesday's deal to reopen the government, which many on the right opposed. Now, many are threatening to take their business elsewhere.
“Conservatives are either going to split [from the GOP] or stay home,” Erickson, the influential editor of RedState.com and a Fox News contributor, told me. “They’ll first expend energy in primaries, but if unsuccessful, they’ll bolt.”
Erickson, a former Republican elected official in Georgia, stressed that he wasn’t advocating such a split, only foreseeing it. “I think the GOP is already splitting,” he said, with grassroots activists feeling “played” by elected officials’ unfulfilled promises to defeat Obamacare.
The calls for a split mark a new, more acrimonious chapter in the long-simmering conflict between the Tea Party and the Republican establishment. Steve Deace, an Iowa-based talk-radio host, said his audience has never been angrier. “They’re tired of electing a bunch of Republicans who care more about what the media thinks about them than what the people who elected them think,” he told me. “Why do I care whether John Boehner or Nancy Pelosi is the speaker of the House? Why do I care whether Harry Reid or ‘Ditch’ McConnell is the Senate majority leader? What changes? Nothing changes.”
To Deace, “political-party disintegration” is on the horizon. And he’s not alone: Sean Hannity, on his radio show on Monday, said he’d previously opposed a third party, but “I’m not so sure anymore. It may be time for a new conservative party in America. I’m sick of these guys.” Ann Coulter’s new book is titled Never Trust a Liberal Over 3—Especially a Republican. Groups like the Senate Conservatives Fund and Heritage Action wear their contempt for GOP elites as a point of pride, and spend the bulk of their resources campaigning against rather than for Republican officeholders.
The Republican establishment, these conservatives say, doesn’t seem to understand that the Tea Party isn’t a wing of the GOP. “It’s an autonomous force,” said Jenny Beth Martin, national coordinator of the Tea Party Patriots. In emails and conversations across the country, Martin told me, she’s hearing more rumblings about taking the Tea Party out from under the GOP than ever before, though the organization hasn’t taken a position on it. “When either party is doing the right thing, the Tea Party stands with them," she said. "And when either party is doing the wrong thing, we hold them accountable.”
The recent government shutdown, and the infighting it laid bare between Republican factions, convinced many conservatives that the institutional GOP would rather sell them out than stick up for them. “There are two views on the right. One says more Republicans is better; the other says better Republicans is better,” said Dean Clancy, vice president of public policy for the Tea Party group FreedomWorks. “One view focuses on the number of Republicans in the Senate, the other on the amount of fight in the senators.”
When Beck made his appeal to "defund the GOP," he told his listeners to stop giving money to Republican committees and give to FreedomWorks instead. "We kind of agree," Clancy told me. “Giving to the party committees is wasted money, because they’re just incumbent protection clubs .... Sometimes you have to beat the Republicans before you beat the Democrats. Just because they're 'our guys' doesn’t mean they'll be our guys when it counts."
Dissatisfaction within the ranks appears to be one driving factor in the record-low approval numbers recorded for the Republican Party in several recent polls. A Gallup poll last week, for example, found just 28 percent of Americans had a favorable opinion of the GOP, the lowest level of support in the two decades Gallup has asked that question. Among Republicans, 27 percent saw their party unfavorably—twice the percentage of Democrats who held a dim view of their own party.
To some Republican institutionalists who have long seen the Tea Party as a destructive force, the talk of a schism merely confirms what they've always suspected—that these activists are a radical, destabilizing force, nihilists devoid of loyalty. Some, like the renegade moderate David Frum, urge the Tea Party to go ahead and leave: “Right now, tea party extremism contaminates the whole Republican brand,” Frum wrote on CNN.com this week, wondering “whether a tea party bolt from the GOP might not just liberate the party to slide back to the political center.” Representative Charles Boustany of Louisiana lashed out at his intransigent colleagues Wednesday, telling National Journal, “I’m not sure they’re Republicans and I’m not sure they’re conservative.”
But most party loyalists seek to placate and explain the Tea Party fervor, and to urge the rebels back into the fold. Ed Gillespie, a former Republican National Committee chairman and George W. Bush aide, said he understood where they were coming from. “A lot of them are new to the process,” Gillespie told me. “They weren’t Young Republicans or College Republicans. They didn’t come up through Republican clubs, and they feel that the Republican Party in the past has not fought hard enough or stood firm enough on these issues.”
Gillespie chalked the tensions up to the party being out of power and lacking a unifying leader; he pointed to similar dislocations in the past, including Ross Perot's third-party candidacies in the 1990s. “I would rather have them trying to shake up the existing party than run as third-party candidates—that would be completely self-defeating,” he said. “We live in a two-party system in the United States. If you’re going to translate your ideas, your beliefs, your principles into policy, it’s got to be done through the electoral process, and that involves participating in a political party.”
Gillespie and others said party institutions have been weakened by changes in campaign-finance law. (The ostensible head of the Republican Party, RNC Chairman Reince Priebus, did not respond to requests for comment for this story.) They noted that the pragmatists and the Tea Partiers don’t disagree on policy, only on what tactics will make the most progress possible toward goals like reducing spending and reversing Obamacare. And they pointed out that conservatives stand little chance of winning elections outside the two-party framework—though their pleas for unity signaled an awareness that Republicans might be equally crippled by the loss of their ideological base.
"Everybody understands standing your ground, hoisting your flag, and making your stand, but at some point, you have to decide if your stand is sustainable."
“Everybody understands standing your ground, hoisting your flag, and making your stand, but at some point, you have to decide if your stand is sustainable,” said Ari Fleischer, the former George W. Bush press secretary. “A lot of people who got elected in 2010 came to Washington as conservatives, not as Republicans. They came to change what was wrong in Washington—they don’t have the same expectations or practical goals as others.” But as for the threats of deserting the GOP, Fleischer said, “I don’t know what that means. Are they going to start a third party? What’s the chances of success for that?”
Some establishmentarians worry the Tea Partiers are already blithely driving the GOP into the ground. “I don’t think they care about the party. I think they care about issues and philosophies,” said Tom Davis, a former congressman from Virginia and onetime chair of the National Republican Congressional Committee. “I have a philsophy, too. But parties are coalitions. What they would like is for the party to be a private club with a litmus test .... The party they would design would be a regional party that would not be viable in many parts of the country.”
Tim Pawlenty, the former Minnesota governor and Republican presidential candidate, blamed “gerrymandered districts” and “the political news-entertainment complex” for empowering passionate minorities within both parties. “If you’re a libertarian or a Tea Partier, you tend to be skeptical toward anything viewed as the establishment, so to the extent you view the traditional Republican Party as the establishment, it follows that there’s room for skepticism,” he said. “But neither party can be successful unless they can get a reasonable amount of support from the whole coalition.”
In the Tea Partiers’ view, the clueless establishment hasn’t yet internalized the seriousness of the threat to its supremacy. The grassroots has taken control, and it will have its way or secede. “This is where the wind is blowing,” Deace said. “I don’t think you can put Humpty Dumpty back together again. People like me are not just taking marching orders anymore—they actually want something in return for a vote.”
It will not be possible, Deace predicted, for the two factions to coexist. “This is going to end in divorce,” he said. “One side is going to win control, one side is going to lose, and the losing side will go do something else. There will not be a reunification.”
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timschochet
Footballguy
They noted that the pragmatists and the Tea Partiers don’t disagree on policy, only on what tactics will make the most progress possible toward goals like reducing spending and reversing Obamacare.
But this is not true, and it's a common misconception. I hear it from Republicans all the time: "I don't like the Tea Party tactics, but I agree with their goals." Actually, if you are a long time moderate or even conservative Republican, chances are you don't agree with the Tea Party goals. They want drastic spending cuts which most non Tea Party Republicans would not tolerate. Most non-Tea Party Republicans I know are willing to accept some sort of tax increase in exchange for significant spending cuts. Tea Partiers will accept NO tax increases under any circumstances. Most non Tea Party Republicans I know believe that Obama is a liberal but not evil. The Tea Party believes that he is evil- a majority believe that he is a Communist Muslim who was not born in this country, and who means to destroy it. And of course, most non-Tea Party Republicans recognize that not raising the debt ceiling would be catastrophic for this country. The Tea Party does not believe this, and some of them actually encourage this move.
The policy is very different.
But this is not true, and it's a common misconception. I hear it from Republicans all the time: "I don't like the Tea Party tactics, but I agree with their goals." Actually, if you are a long time moderate or even conservative Republican, chances are you don't agree with the Tea Party goals. They want drastic spending cuts which most non Tea Party Republicans would not tolerate. Most non-Tea Party Republicans I know are willing to accept some sort of tax increase in exchange for significant spending cuts. Tea Partiers will accept NO tax increases under any circumstances. Most non Tea Party Republicans I know believe that Obama is a liberal but not evil. The Tea Party believes that he is evil- a majority believe that he is a Communist Muslim who was not born in this country, and who means to destroy it. And of course, most non-Tea Party Republicans recognize that not raising the debt ceiling would be catastrophic for this country. The Tea Party does not believe this, and some of them actually encourage this move.
The policy is very different.
You're just now waking up to this, congratulations. I guess you need reporters to regurgitate facts that are easy to see to really get it. The sentiment I've been expressing is exactly what is fueling quite a bit of this. We don't want your crappy party that is just going to sell our beliefs out to liberals. The guys we've voted for that had R next to them only have that label in name so they'd have a chance to win the election, they aren't what would be labeled as Republicans over any period in the last 50 years. It's a little degrading to wear the label for them I'm sure since the party is a bunch of ######s, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I haven't voted for a single Republican in 2 election cycles now and don't plan to ever again unless that person were a true fiscal conservative. My rep claims to be a tea partier but a look at his history showed he was merely an opportunist that didn't actually hold my beliefs. So I looked elsewhere. We don't want any part of your crappy system and crappy representation anymore. The Republican Party as you knew it is dead, period. It has been for 5 years now but you weren't astute enough to realize it.
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Rush Limbaugh Fan
Footballguy
Can we replace the GOP with a leftist party? We can have the Democrat and Socialist parties.
We already did. And these guys are surprised that their base is revolting while trying to claim to have any degree of intelligence.Can we replace the GOP with a leftist party? We can have the Democrat and Socialist parties.
timschochet
Footballguy
Maelstrom
Footballguy
Maybe the "moderate" Republicans can form a more centrist group, get over some of the social issues that plague the far right while holding onto the conservative fiscal policy. I think many independents and moderates from both the Dem and Rep party would latch onto a "common sense" party that is willing to work together towards fixing problems.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the current Dem party is nearly as far left as some would have you believe, I believe (except for a small fringe element) they have actually swung closer to the center than many realize. A centrist Republican party would allow them to swing back left a bit, leaving some of their moderates to join with the centrist party, and it seems like it could end up with a nicely balanced center-based moderate group with 2 more fringe groups that can stand their ground on their issues without seriously hurting the country.
More than likely though, if the GOP splits, both parties will suffer in the elections and the Dems will take control while those two fight it out. That is why I believe this doesn't happen in the end. I think many of the Tea Party end up losing their seats and the moderates take over, and we actually have 2 parties in Washington willing to work together to govern.
Probably just
though
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the current Dem party is nearly as far left as some would have you believe, I believe (except for a small fringe element) they have actually swung closer to the center than many realize. A centrist Republican party would allow them to swing back left a bit, leaving some of their moderates to join with the centrist party, and it seems like it could end up with a nicely balanced center-based moderate group with 2 more fringe groups that can stand their ground on their issues without seriously hurting the country.
More than likely though, if the GOP splits, both parties will suffer in the elections and the Dems will take control while those two fight it out. That is why I believe this doesn't happen in the end. I think many of the Tea Party end up losing their seats and the moderates take over, and we actually have 2 parties in Washington willing to work together to govern.
Probably just
thoughThe only thing that can save you is a return to true fiscal sanity which you obviously aren't open to, so good luck with that. I voted Republican and I'll I've got to show for it is out of control government spending. Shame on me.
Your last scenario is most likely, but the reason Tea Partiers don't care is because there's no difference between the two. We're going to spend a ton of money on a pile of crap we don't need either way. The only thing these parties debate on is which pile of crap is more attractive.Maybe the "moderate" Republicans can form a more centrist group, get over some of the social issues that plague the far right while holding onto the conservative fiscal policy. I think many independents and moderates from both the Dem and Rep party would latch onto a "common sense" party that is willing to work together towards fixing problems.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the current Dem party is nearly as far left as some would have you believe, I believe (except for a small fringe element) they have actually swung closer to the center than many realize. A centrist Republican party would allow them to swing back left a bit, leaving some of their moderates to join with the centrist party, and it seems like it could end up with a nicely balanced center-based moderate group with 2 more fringe groups that can stand their ground on their issues without seriously hurting the country.
More than likely though, if the GOP splits, both parties will suffer in the elections and the Dems will take control while those two fight it out. That is why I believe this doesn't happen in the end. I think many of the Tea Party end up losing their seats and the moderates take over, and we actually have 2 parties in Washington willing to work together to govern.
Probably just
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
That would be great. Where do I sign up?Can we replace the GOP with a leftist party? We can have the Democrat and Socialist parties.
Right now Obama is a little bit to the right of center on most issues.
This radical socialist nonsense is when I know someone has lost the plot.
dparker713
Footballguy
There is just so much crazy in this thread.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
It's wonderful to behold. The GOP, a franchise I abandoned years ago because of the fringe crackpots dictating idiotic agendas, tactics, and vacant rhetoric, is starting the process of cleansing itself of the intellectual midgetry that has been its defining quality post-Bush Sr. Please, tea party boobs, huddle up your Bachman-Palin-Cruz-Rubio mob, break away, go away, and let the GOP reboot. This country needs a coherent and formidable counter-point to the Dems, and that can only be achieved when the tea party sheep launch themselves off the political cliff and into obscurity where they belong.
Dr Oadi
Footballguy
Funny.
Widbil83
Footballguy
"This little unknown Jewish guy."timschochet said:MaxThreshold said:Boston said:
Saul Alinsky - the hero of most on that list -guy most on that list have never heard of would be proud.
C'mon Tim. Don't act like you haven't read "Rules for Radicals."
apalmer
Footballguy
It's not backlash, it's the SOP for that group: "We came up with this stupid idea and convinced the idiots we control to go with it. Now that it's not only failed, but weakened our side immeasurably, what do we do? Should we admit how stupid it was? Of course not, let's just blame someone else for not going far enough!"
HellToupee
Footballguy
there are some very long posts in here
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Tl;dr. The more the psychos are marginalized, the better. Stay in your bunker and don't worry about the real world.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I'm always surprised at how revolting the Republican base is.We already did. And these guys are surprised that their base is revolting while trying to claim to have any degree of intelligence.Can we replace the GOP with a leftist party? We can have the Democrat and Socialist parties.
Statorama
Footballguy
I still don't understand why some in this thread are so afraid of a movement designed to make the government more efficient. That's all the Tea Party is designed to do. Fight for a decrease in government influence on our lives. Lower taxes. Elimination of governmental waste.
A lot of you are like that meme of Fry from Futurama with a fist full of dollars saying "shut up and take my money"
Why are you so ready to just give all of your money to the government and say "please take care of me daddy"
A lot of you are like that meme of Fry from Futurama with a fist full of dollars saying "shut up and take my money"
Why are you so ready to just give all of your money to the government and say "please take care of me daddy"
Mister Martie
Footballguy
The Sarah Palin fishing shtick was better - more believable.
