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The Tea Party is back in business! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I don't think the stock market would be unduly affected by a shutdown, as per Slapdash's post. People will be hurt and it will cost us money, but so long as it doesn't last too long it won't be catastrophic.
If the debt ceiling is not raised, I believe the stock market may very well crash.
If the debt ceiling is not raised, I believe the stock market may very well crash.
timschochet
Footballguy
TPW's argument is typical of the Tea Party. They believe that we are all on a tightrope high in the air, and that the rope is frayed, and that we don't realize just what a terrible situation we're in. Their solution is to cut the tiightrope.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Cute. My solution is to quit sleepwalking and to get the hell off the tightrope before the safety net that's on fire below us burns up.
It's nice to know in these trying times that our Commander-in-Chief is doing his utmost to see us through to a positive conclusion.
http://www.jammiewf.com/2013/historic-as-government-shutdown-nears-king-putt-hits-the-links/
lod01
Footballguy
Is there anyone who doesn't believe it will eventually be 50 trillion...100 trillion. Why not just set it at 100 trillion and not have to deal with this bull #### for a long time. It's never going down. It will always go up.
#hashtagger
Footballguy
#LastCall
#ClosingTime
#IKnowWhoYouWantToTakeYouHome
#ClosingTime
#IKnowWhoYouWantToTakeYouHome
The Commish
Footballguy
The Tea Party has only been around since 2010. The Democrat controlled Senate went four years without passing a budget until 2013 and the President's outrageous proposed budgets received as little as ZERO votes, including from Democrats. Who exactly is taking the issue seriously?
timschochet
Footballguy
You just wrote:
People need to WAKE UP and if shutting everything down is what it takes to get them to do so, so be it.
You wrote this in direct response to a question if anyone was in favor of not raising the debt ceiling. Just to clarify, you recognize that not raising the debt ceiling would have the effect, not just of shutting down the government, but of "shutting everything down", meaning the American economy. Yet you're in favor of it because it will "wake up" people. How is my tightrope analogy false?
Mister Martie
Footballguy
It's false because the narrative that the United States cannot survive without the federal government directly contributing to +/- 40% of our Gross Domestic Product is false. Junkies often have a hard time remembering what life was like before they had their first fix.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
X
A million government employees will be put on furlough. Including my wife. Sure, we can handle a short shutdown financially, but the longer she is out of work, the more she will be bored at home. This will result in an increase in online shopping for various crap that we don't need. God help me.
timschochet
Footballguy
http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/27/news/economy/shutdown-plans/index.html
The outlines of next week's possible government shutdown have started to take shape as government agencies roll out their contingency plans.Military service members will stay on the job but their paychecks may be delayed. Federal museums and the National Zoo will close, so tourists will be turned away.
Most of the housing department will be furloughed, so homebuyers waiting on an FHA loan will be left hanging.
It's impossible to say if a shutdown will happen. Congress did seem to move closer to one this weekend as Republicans and Democrats remained sharply divided.
But one thing is clear: Shutting down the government is a complex process.
To get ready, agencies have been identifying services, programs and workers deemed essential, or "excepted" in official speak. Translation: Workers in the business of protecting life and property. They will continue working, though they won't be paid until after the shutdown.
Employees whose jobs are funded by money other than the annual appropriations that Congress is fighting over will keep working as well. So too will presidential appointees.
But all other programs deemed to be non-essential, or "non-excepted," will be shuttered. And workers at those programs will be furloughed without pay.
Here are a few of the plans for next week in the event of a shutdown.
Defense: All active-duty military personnel, as well as active-duty reserve personnel, will stay on the job, the Pentagon said. But their Oct. 15 paycheck could be delayed if the shutdown goes past Oct. 7.
Civilian personnel engaged in essential activities will also continue working through the shutdown.
Civilian personnel involved in non-essential work will be furloughed without pay -- unless money to pay their salaries is drawn from a source other than fiscal year 2014 appropriations.
hose who work during the shutdown will be paid, but not until Congress appropriates funds to do so.
Temporary duty travel will be canceled, unless it's in direct support of the war in Afghanistan or related to safety of life and protection of property or foreign relations. In such cases, written approval is required.
For any service member killed during a shutdown, families will not get death benefits until the shutdown ended.
Federal courts and justice: Justice will continue to be served.
The court system said it will remain open for business for approximately 10 business days in the event of a shutdown.
It's able to do so on the basis of fees and funds from prior appropriations, according to an earlier report from the Congressional Research Service.
All court proceedings and deadlines will remain in effect unless otherwise advised. The judiciary said it will reassess its funding capacity on or around Oct. 15.
The Department of Justice, meanwhile, said it only plans to furlough about 15% of its 114,486-person workforce.
Health and Human Services: The Department of Health and Human Services has said it will furlough 52% its employees if there's a shutdown.
Offices to be hit hardest include the Administration for Children and Families, the Administration for Community Living and the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention would be affected too. But they would keep on minimal support for their outbreak investigations, processing of laboratory samples and the 24/7 emergency operations center.
The Food and Drug Administration will also continue limited activities related to high-risk recalls and other vital efforts.
The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services will continue large portions of Obamacare. And the Medicare program will continue "largely without disruption" during the shutdown.
Housing loans: If you want to apply for a Federal Housing Administration loan or are waiting to hear if your current application has been approved, no dice.
The FHA won't be issuing, underwriting or approving new loans during a shutdown.
The Department of Housing and Urban Development, of which FHA is a part, said it will be furloughing 96% of its workforce.
National museums: The Smithsonian Institution said its 18 museums and the National Zoo will be closed to the public in a shutdown.
It will furlough 84% of its workforce. The other 16% who will be asked to work include employees responsible for the care and protections of the facilities and collections as well as the care and feeding of the animals at the zoo.
Passports: During the last shutdown in the mid-1990s, passport offices closed. But according to the State Department's current shutdown plan, offices will remain open because they generate enough in fees to support their operation.
Any offices located in a federal building affected by the shutdown, however, may not be able to open.
Chemical spill investigations: They'll be halted.
The Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board said it will furlough 37 of its 40 staff members in a shutdown.
"There would be no ability to respond to a major incident," managing director Daniel Horowitz told CNN.
The board sees its mission as investigative rather than immediately life-saving, which is why it essentially will shut down until Congress appropriates funding.
NASA: Good news for crews docking at the International Space Station. NASA said it will keep on some employees during a shutdown to make sure the crews are safe. Existing satellite missions will also continue.
But any NASA activity not tied to the protection of life and property will cease during the shutdown.
That's true even if it would cost more to shut a program down than to keep it running, according to NASA guidance.
The outlines of next week's possible government shutdown have started to take shape as government agencies roll out their contingency plans.Military service members will stay on the job but their paychecks may be delayed. Federal museums and the National Zoo will close, so tourists will be turned away.
Most of the housing department will be furloughed, so homebuyers waiting on an FHA loan will be left hanging.
It's impossible to say if a shutdown will happen. Congress did seem to move closer to one this weekend as Republicans and Democrats remained sharply divided.
But one thing is clear: Shutting down the government is a complex process.
To get ready, agencies have been identifying services, programs and workers deemed essential, or "excepted" in official speak. Translation: Workers in the business of protecting life and property. They will continue working, though they won't be paid until after the shutdown.
Employees whose jobs are funded by money other than the annual appropriations that Congress is fighting over will keep working as well. So too will presidential appointees.
But all other programs deemed to be non-essential, or "non-excepted," will be shuttered. And workers at those programs will be furloughed without pay.
Here are a few of the plans for next week in the event of a shutdown.
Defense: All active-duty military personnel, as well as active-duty reserve personnel, will stay on the job, the Pentagon said. But their Oct. 15 paycheck could be delayed if the shutdown goes past Oct. 7.
Civilian personnel engaged in essential activities will also continue working through the shutdown.
Civilian personnel involved in non-essential work will be furloughed without pay -- unless money to pay their salaries is drawn from a source other than fiscal year 2014 appropriations.
hose who work during the shutdown will be paid, but not until Congress appropriates funds to do so.
Temporary duty travel will be canceled, unless it's in direct support of the war in Afghanistan or related to safety of life and protection of property or foreign relations. In such cases, written approval is required.
For any service member killed during a shutdown, families will not get death benefits until the shutdown ended.
Federal courts and justice: Justice will continue to be served.
The court system said it will remain open for business for approximately 10 business days in the event of a shutdown.
It's able to do so on the basis of fees and funds from prior appropriations, according to an earlier report from the Congressional Research Service.
All court proceedings and deadlines will remain in effect unless otherwise advised. The judiciary said it will reassess its funding capacity on or around Oct. 15.
The Department of Justice, meanwhile, said it only plans to furlough about 15% of its 114,486-person workforce.
Health and Human Services: The Department of Health and Human Services has said it will furlough 52% its employees if there's a shutdown.
Offices to be hit hardest include the Administration for Children and Families, the Administration for Community Living and the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention would be affected too. But they would keep on minimal support for their outbreak investigations, processing of laboratory samples and the 24/7 emergency operations center.
The Food and Drug Administration will also continue limited activities related to high-risk recalls and other vital efforts.
The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services will continue large portions of Obamacare. And the Medicare program will continue "largely without disruption" during the shutdown.
Housing loans: If you want to apply for a Federal Housing Administration loan or are waiting to hear if your current application has been approved, no dice.
The FHA won't be issuing, underwriting or approving new loans during a shutdown.
The Department of Housing and Urban Development, of which FHA is a part, said it will be furloughing 96% of its workforce.
National museums: The Smithsonian Institution said its 18 museums and the National Zoo will be closed to the public in a shutdown.
It will furlough 84% of its workforce. The other 16% who will be asked to work include employees responsible for the care and protections of the facilities and collections as well as the care and feeding of the animals at the zoo.
Passports: During the last shutdown in the mid-1990s, passport offices closed. But according to the State Department's current shutdown plan, offices will remain open because they generate enough in fees to support their operation.
Any offices located in a federal building affected by the shutdown, however, may not be able to open.
Chemical spill investigations: They'll be halted.
The Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board said it will furlough 37 of its 40 staff members in a shutdown.
"There would be no ability to respond to a major incident," managing director Daniel Horowitz told CNN.
The board sees its mission as investigative rather than immediately life-saving, which is why it essentially will shut down until Congress appropriates funding.
NASA: Good news for crews docking at the International Space Station. NASA said it will keep on some employees during a shutdown to make sure the crews are safe. Existing satellite missions will also continue.
But any NASA activity not tied to the protection of life and property will cease during the shutdown.
That's true even if it would cost more to shut a program down than to keep it running, according to NASA guidance.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yeah, my prediction here already has turned out to be inaccurate, as per the article I posted above. Sorry about your wife.
The Commish
Footballguy
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Department of Veterans Affairs Partially Protected From Government Shutdown
OI&T within VA is a different entity and isn't as well protected. Fortunately I am designated as essential and will be here. I don't know when I'll get paid though.
igbomb
Footballguy
[SIZE=medium]Out of curiosity, for those of the doom and gloom persuasion when it comes to our national debt, what do you view as an acceptable debt situation?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Are you looking for all debt to be wiped out? Just stop growing? In absolute terms? As a percent of GDP?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I’m genuinely curious what people view as success. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Are you looking for all debt to be wiped out? Just stop growing? In absolute terms? As a percent of GDP?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I’m genuinely curious what people view as success. [/SIZE]
Tim will give you play by play updates from both.This thread is pure gold
I feel like I'm watching MSNBC and Fox at the same time.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yep, it's all about me "getting off". Just a bunch of paranoia on my part, nothing to look it. If I hadn't posted it, who would have heard about it? Not like it's being featured on the news or anything...
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
So will universal insurance get delayed a year?
timschochet
Footballguy
OK Obama is a hypocrite. He never should have said that. Of course he said it knowing the debt ceiling would be raised anyhow so he was safe to complain about it. Even so, you're right, it's hypocritical.
Now what?
Now what?
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
jamny
Footballguy
snogger
Footballguy
The argument you hear is "We can't fix this now while the economy is limping along.. wait until it improves...
Then, when things do improve, you hear "We can't fix this now otherwise the growth will stop and we might go into a recession".
< Our Government "at work" .
pantagrapher
Footballguy
Negotiate on what? Repealing or delaying duly enacted laws so the GOP doesn't send the economy down the toilet? Where does it stop?
Bogeys
Footballguy
Didn't the President already do this without authorization? So why not delay it all for the same time frame?
I don't agree with what the Tea Party is doing here (I don't really agree with the CR stuff either...pass a damn budget already, that is when you negotiate all this crap), but let's not pretend the other sides hands are clean either.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
It will likely be up to the individual agency. Since this isn't about spending but about grandstanding, it is possible but not necessarily likely that furloughed workers will be paid back. The money in question would already be allotted for payroll and can't be moved unless Congress says to move furloughed salaries to other programs. In this current environment, I wouldn't be surprised if they did that but then again that would make them accountable for something.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Take off 6-7 trillion and I stop being concerned as long as the debt doesnt grow again and continues a downward slope after that.
igbomb
Footballguy
Why 6-7 trillion? Is there some benchmark you're aiming for?
And when you say you want it to continue to decrease, do you mean in absolute terms or relative to GDP?
From S&P:
[SIZE=small]“In our opinion, the current impasse over the continuing resolution and the debt ceiling creates an atmosphere of uncertainty that could affect confidence, investment, and hiring in the U.S. However, as long as it is short-lived, we do not anticipate the impasse to lead to a change in the sovereign rating. This sort of political brinkmanship is the dominant reason the rating is no longer 'AAA.'”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]“In our opinion, the current impasse over the continuing resolution and the debt ceiling creates an atmosphere of uncertainty that could affect confidence, investment, and hiring in the U.S. However, as long as it is short-lived, we do not anticipate the impasse to lead to a change in the sovereign rating. This sort of political brinkmanship is the dominant reason the rating is no longer 'AAA.'”[/SIZE]
Phil Elliott
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
Jackstraw
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I mean in absolute terms, not in relation to GDP.
The benchmark I aim for is as close to zero as possible, but more importantly to shrink to a level where future interest rates don't make the cost of the debt a huge burden every year. If we pay 800 billion a year in interest in the future, that sure is a lot of jobs.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
It's not the amount or ratio of debt to GDP that concerns me. It's the fact that modern money mechancis requires that either the people or the government increase in debt, or else we experience massive deflationary forces. Given the demographics of the baby boom generation, the people won't be able to produce the increase in debt that our monetary system needs. Thus the government must produce the large amount of additional debt needed by the monetary system. It has been doing exactly that for the past 5+ years. The problem is it will have to do it for another two decades before the demographic issue is purged. And this is a crisis that exists before we've even addressed the issue that many baby boomers are counting on billions and billions in pension funds and social security that won't be there like the expect. 401Ks and IRAs will be rolled into a government run system that also folds in the pension funds and social security. There is no other way to fix this problem, and even this isn't much of a fix. Those who expect this will be prepared for it. Those who think things will be better 10 to 20 years from now will be greatly disappointed.
