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The Tuck, Deflategate and now The Sack (1 Viewer)

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy


Was this the worst call you have ever seen for Roughing the Passer? I want to say yes but I've seen so many flags called for grazes to the helmet or phantom contact that didn't happen. I'm not sure where this ranks but it belongs on the Mt Rushmore of bad calls for '22 so far.


What is Jarrett supposed to do? Jerome Boger's explanation was even worse than the call and he should be suspended or removed from the field of officiating for a while.
Bucs were up 21-0 and getting ready to punt with the score cut to 21-15, it was a pretty big deal.
 

BobbyLayne

Footballguy
Pretty awful. Standard tackle, bad call.

But what comes to mind is I’ve seen Rodgers get at least three calls (that come immediately to mind without digging) vs Detroit which were worse. In the last decade I’ve seen at least 10-12 calls go against the Lions which were worse, and every one of them decided the game.

Standard practice is we get an apology from the league office on Wednesday or Thursday, league admits they blew it, nothing changes. For teams like Atlanta or Detroit who don’t have favored nation status, just part of the challenge. You have to overcome bad calls.
 

Stinkin Ref

IBL Representative
I really wish a follow up question to Boger would have been....."what exactly did Jarrett do that was unnecessary?......and what should he have done differently...?"

as KC fan I have been on this side of things when it comes to Brady.....the phantom contact to the head call in the playoffs that extended a drive.....etc.

I have watched a ton of football, but I will answer yes to MOP's question... this was the worst of them all in IMO.....for the simple fact that I don't know what Jarrett is expected to do....is he supposed to slowly and politely pick him up and place him on the ground while giving him a blanket and a binky...?
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
was a terrible call, but such a troll thread topic, which was not necessary
Still not worse than the tuck call which did cost the Raiders the game.
Tuck Rule call was absolutely the correct application of a terrible rule (which has since been changed). Yesterday was a terrible application of a good rule.

Also, I chalk this up mostly to the league being overprotective of QBs. Could have been any QB
 

Amused to Death

Footballguy
Bad calls happen all the time. This was called roughing the passer in the NE / DET game. It made no difference in the outcome of the game, so no one will scream bloody murder. The best way to resolve some of these calls is to make them reviewable, but the league didn't love it when pass interference could be reviewed (and quickly got rid of it).
Bad, but the helmet does appear to come up and hit Goff under the chin. Probably shouldn't have been called but you can see why. The hit on Brady is just a sack/tackle.
 

-jb-

Footballguy
Bad calls happen all the time. This was called roughing the passer in the NE / DET game. It made no difference in the outcome of the game, so no one will scream bloody murder. The best way to resolve some of these calls is to make them reviewable, but the league didn't love it when pass interference could be reviewed (and quickly got rid of it).

Even if reviewed, this would likely hold up based on how the rule is written (helmet to helmet, regardless of how light of a touch). With Brady, there was absolutely nothing on the tape that could be construed as RTP. It was a wrap tackle, and he was brought down without his helmet even hitting the turf. Clean play.
 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
was a terrible call, but such a troll thread topic, which was not necessary
Thank you for posting in here all the same

-This topic was a hot topic on the talk circuit this morning
MoP could have worded it differently but an absolutely necessary thread to discuss how silly adults are and the overreaction to Tua's concussion has rippling effects for the rest of the season and maybe beyond.

NFL needs to expand rosters to 75-80 to account for all the players they are going to remove during games.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
Bad calls happen all the time. This was called roughing the passer in the NE / DET game. It made no difference in the outcome of the game, so no one will scream bloody murder. The best way to resolve some of these calls is to make them reviewable, but the league didn't love it when pass interference could be reviewed (and quickly got rid of it).

Even if reviewed, this would likely hold up based on how the rule is written (helmet to helmet, regardless of how light of a touch). With Brady, there was absolutely nothing on the tape that could be construed as RTP. It was a wrap tackle, and he was brought down without his helmet even hitting the turf. Clean play.
I have said for years that to the letter of the rulebook, there is a penalty on every play. On over half the tackles, there is some contact made with the head / helmet-to-helmet contact. There is holding on every play (on either the offense or defense or both) . . . or hands to the face. I truly miss the old days where football was a physical game and refs let them play. We are at the point where players are making routine football plays and getting penalized when there is nothing they did wrong or could have done anything differently. The Brady sack was another example. The defender couldn't have done anything different, but the rule of flinging a QB to the ground or landing on him is subjective. Even though it made no sense, that's how the rule is written . . . and with Tua getting hurt on a similar play, now they've made it a point of emphasis.
 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
MoP could have worded it differently but an absolutely necessary thread to discuss how silly adults are and the overreaction to Tua's concussion has rippling effects for the rest of the season and maybe beyond.
The thread may be necessary but the thread title is not.
From the producers that brought you The Tuck and Deflategate bring you the next controversy, Columbia Pictures releases "The Sack"
Starring Tom Brady and Grady Jarrett, with special guest Jerome Boger

I didn't think I could fit all that in so I went with the abridged version but it's definitely not my best work.
 

BobbyLayne

Footballguy
Bad calls happen all the time. This was called roughing the passer in the NE / DET game. It made no difference in the outcome of the game, so no one will scream bloody murder. The best way to resolve some of these calls is to make them reviewable, but the league didn't love it when pass interference could be reviewed (and quickly got rid of it).

Mack Wilson got fined $28K for lowering his helmet just a couple weeks ago. I’m fine with the league keeping habitual line steppers on a short leash.
 

GroveDiesel

Footballguy
I don’t understand how Jerome Boger still has a job. He has been terrible for quite some time. There were a ton of atrocious calls both ways last week in Bills/Ravens as well with his crew.

I have to say though, the guy I really still hold a grudge against for the poor NFL officiating is Peter King. He carried so much water for the officials’ union spearheading media cries about how the NFL was creating a safety issue by not just giving in to the refs during the last labor negotiation that ended up gutting most of the stuff that was going to hold the refs accountable. And unfortunately enough fans bought it that there was significant backlash and the NFL gave in and now we get to watch Jerome Boger frustrate everyone week after week.
 

Long Ball Larry

Footballguy
Bad calls happen all the time. This was called roughing the passer in the NE / DET game. It made no difference in the outcome of the game, so no one will scream bloody murder. The best way to resolve some of these calls is to make them reviewable, but the league didn't love it when pass interference could be reviewed (and quickly got rid of it).
it's weak, but any time you lead with your helmet into the QBs helmet in any way, they are going to ding you. very different than the tackle on Brady.
 

Dizzy

Footballguy
was a terrible call, but such a troll thread topic, which was not necessary
Still not worse than the tuck call which did cost the Raiders the game.
Tuck Rule call was absolutely the correct application of a terrible rule (which has since been changed). Yesterday was a terrible application of a good rule.

Also, I chalk this up mostly to the league being overprotective of QBs. Could have been any QB

No way. This was a "star call" ala NBA style.

To your point... was the dude that sacked/slammed/knocked out Tua flagged? That actually "looked" violent, although I believe it was still in the framework of what is considered tackling. That Brady play was about as gentle a sack as you will find. PLUS - Brady tried to kick the dude as he got up.

Star call IMO.
 

yoman

Footballguy
That was one of the most brutal hits I have ever seen on a quarterback! I think he was literally trying to kill him. :)

I don't think you will find anyone who will disagree with it being a bad call but as @Anarchy99 unless they make these plays reviewable there is not much we can do.
 

-jb-

Footballguy
Bad calls happen all the time. This was called roughing the passer in the NE / DET game. It made no difference in the outcome of the game, so no one will scream bloody murder. The best way to resolve some of these calls is to make them reviewable, but the league didn't love it when pass interference could be reviewed (and quickly got rid of it).

Even if reviewed, this would likely hold up based on how the rule is written (helmet to helmet, regardless of how light of a touch). With Brady, there was absolutely nothing on the tape that could be construed as RTP. It was a wrap tackle, and he was brought down without his helmet even hitting the turf. Clean play.
I have said for years that to the letter of the rulebook, there is a penalty on every play. On over half the tackles, there is some contact made with the head / helmet-to-helmet contact. There is holding on every play (on either the offense or defense or both) . . . or hands to the face. I truly miss the old days where football was a physical game and refs let them play. We are at the point where players are making routine football plays and getting penalized when there is nothing they did wrong or could have done anything differently. The Brady sack was another example. The defender couldn't have done anything different, but the rule of flinging a QB to the ground or landing on him is subjective. Even though it made no sense, that's how the rule is written . . . and with Tua getting hurt on a similar play, now they've made it a point of emphasis.

...but he did neither of these things...
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
Bad calls happen all the time. This was called roughing the passer in the NE / DET game. It made no difference in the outcome of the game, so no one will scream bloody murder. The best way to resolve some of these calls is to make them reviewable, but the league didn't love it when pass interference could be reviewed (and quickly got rid of it).

Even if reviewed, this would likely hold up based on how the rule is written (helmet to helmet, regardless of how light of a touch). With Brady, there was absolutely nothing on the tape that could be construed as RTP. It was a wrap tackle, and he was brought down without his helmet even hitting the turf. Clean play.
I have said for years that to the letter of the rulebook, there is a penalty on every play. On over half the tackles, there is some contact made with the head / helmet-to-helmet contact. There is holding on every play (on either the offense or defense or both) . . . or hands to the face. I truly miss the old days where football was a physical game and refs let them play. We are at the point where players are making routine football plays and getting penalized when there is nothing they did wrong or could have done anything differently. The Brady sack was another example. The defender couldn't have done anything different, but the rule of flinging a QB to the ground or landing on him is subjective. Even though it made no sense, that's how the rule is written . . . and with Tua getting hurt on a similar play, now they've made it a point of emphasis.

...but he did neither of these things...
It doesn’t matter what we think. To a ref on the field, with the angle he had, in real time at game speed that’s what he saw. That’s part of the issue with calls / non calls. A ref will only call what he thinks he sees. That’s why calls like this should be available. I remember last year NE got a stop on third down and got called for a late hit on a QB who had given himself up by sliding. The replay showed him sail over the QB and avoiding contact all together. But automatic first down and 15 yards.

The problem when they allowed challenges and review of PI was the refs were insulted and didn’t want people calling them out, dissecting a play in super slow motion from 10 camera angles. IMO, the PI challenges were a waste of time, as they rarely overturned a call (and the ones they did probably shouldn’t have been). The refs hated it, so I am not encouraged that penalties will allowed to be challenged again.

Defenders these days have about a two foot area they can touch a QB without fear of reprisal. Might as well say only two hand touch for QBs.
 

zaner75

Footballguy
If the refs are going to go that soft on RTP calls, defenders might as well think, "If I'm going to get a flag, I might as well make sure it's a real hit."
With the new heightened concussion rules, knocking the QB out for the game is a win for the defense, 15 yards to get to the backup QB. Not the path the NFL, nor fans, want. Hopefully it's a one-off terrible call by a terrible official.
 

Sasgaard

Footballguy
the only reason this has so much drama to it is because of the hatred for Brady. It would have been another QB, yeah, we would have talked about it.......for a bit....and then move on. Bad calls happen every sunday, all the time. But because it's Brady, a lot of people are putting their panties in a bunch. There is a culture in this country of hatred for people who consistently win. I've seen it with the yankees, Brady, etc....it's just weird how much people hate guys who consistently win....
 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
the only reason this has so much drama to it is because of the hatred for Brady. It would have been another QB, yeah, we would have talked about it.......for a bit....and then move on. Bad calls happen every sunday, all the time. But because it's Brady, a lot of people are putting their panties in a bunch. There is a culture in this country of hatred for people who consistently win. I've seen it with the yankees, Brady, etc....it's just weird how much people hate guys who consistently win....
So you feel it wasn't that egregious of a cal?
 

apalmer

Footballguy
was a terrible call, but such a troll thread topic, which was not necessary
Still not worse than the tuck call which did cost the Raiders the game.
Tuck Rule call was absolutely the correct application of a terrible rule (which has since been changed). Yesterday was a terrible application of a good rule.

Also, I chalk this up mostly to the league being overprotective of QBs. Could have been any QB
Yeah? Compare it to the hit on a sliding Kenny Pickett yesterday that wasn't a penalty.
 

Zow

Footballguy
was a terrible call, but such a troll thread topic, which was not necessary
Still not worse than the tuck call which did cost the Raiders the game.
Tuck Rule call was absolutely the correct application of a terrible rule (which has since been changed). Yesterday was a terrible application of a good rule.

Also, I chalk this up mostly to the league being overprotective of QBs. Could have been any QB
Yeah? Compare it to the hit on a sliding Kenny Pickett yesterday that wasn't a penalty.
Also a bad no-call.
 

Zow

Footballguy
the only reason this has so much drama to it is because of the hatred for Brady. It would have been another QB, yeah, we would have talked about it.......for a bit....and then move on. Bad calls happen every sunday, all the time. But because it's Brady, a lot of people are putting their panties in a bunch. There is a culture in this country of hatred for people who consistently win. I've seen it with the yankees, Brady, etc....it's just weird how much people hate guys who consistently win....
Agreed it's heightened because of Brady, but this was a huge call at a huge point of the game. Even if it's Davis Mills getting sacked, it still would likely be talked about because it effectively ended what turned out to be a close game.
 

wlwiles

Footballguy
If the refs are going to go that soft on RTP calls, defenders might as well think, "If I'm going to get a flag, I might as well make sure it's a real hit."
With the new heightened concussion rules, knocking the QB out for the game is a win for the defense, 15 yards to get to the backup QB. Not the path the NFL, nor fans, want. Hopefully it's a one-off terrible call by a terrible official.
Grew up playing basketball. Had more than one coach whose motto was "if you're going to foul them, you better make sure they don't make the shot". Your post reminded me of that philosophy.

RTP penalties have become very ticky-tack over the last few years. QB releases the ball a split second too soon and you can't check up, it's RTP. You throw your hands up in the QB's face as he's throwing, you better make sure when you bring your hands down that a pinky finger doesn't graze the QB's helmet or else it's a hit to the head, RTP. If you tackle the QB in a sack you have to fall to the side of him because if you land on top of him, its RTP. Don't sling the QB down or it's RTP. Etc. etc.

Everytime I see a RTP call I'm reminded of my old coaches. If you're going to get a penalty, make it worth it. If a defender is going to get a RTP called for a light hit, he might as well light the QB up and make him remember it.
 
The tuck rule was technically correct.
no it was not. the call on the field was a fumble and there was not evidence to overturn the call in such an important playoff game.

al davis said his problem with it was the lengthy phone call the ref was having on the sideline. I think if we could hear that conversation, the idea that it was the "correct call" would be an even worse joke than it already is. if it was so obvious and easy to overturn and just going by the rule book. why was there a phone call? why was it obvious to everyone watching(including the refs) that it was a fumble?

it was just as correct as the roughing the passer call against atlanta. complete BS and it happens to other teams too if they are not favored by the league.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
The tuck rule was technically correct.
no it was not. the call on the field was a fumble and there was not evidence to overturn the call in such an important playoff game.

al davis said his problem with it was the lengthy phone call the ref was having on the sideline. I think if we could hear that conversation, the idea that it was the "correct call" would be an even worse joke than it already is. if it was so obvious and easy to overturn and just going by the rule book. why was there a phone call? why was it obvious to everyone watching(including the refs) that it was a fumble?

it was just as correct as the roughing the passer call against atlanta. complete BS and it happens to other teams too if they are not favored by the league.
Not a lot to gain by rehashing plays from 20 years ago, but referee Walt Coleman indicated the crew didn’t get a clear view of the play (especially in the snow), and the crew opted to call the play a fumble because they could sort it out on replay. They were trained on those types of plays to let the play conclude and then sort it out. Coleman said the play on video was a clear example of the tuck rule, and there wasn’t much to debate. He also indicated had the call been ruled an incomplete pass, that would not have been a reviewable play. IMO, the crew did the best they could to get the call right. The rule itself made no sense, but the officials reviewed and resolved it fairly. NE had the tuck rule go against them earlier that year, and BB knew that should have been the call and was in the face of the officiating crew as soon as it happened. Unfortunately for Raiders fans it was a really dumb rule, but the officials enforced the rule as written.
 

DropKick

Footballguy


Was this the worst call you have ever seen for Roughing the Passer? I want to say yes but I've seen so many flags called for grazes to the helmet or phantom contact that didn't happen. I'm not sure where this ranks but it belongs on the Mt Rushmore of bad calls for '22 so far.


What is Jarrett supposed to do? Jerome Boger's explanation was even worse than the call and he should be suspended or removed from the field of officiating for a while.
Bucs were up 21-0 and getting ready to punt with the score cut to 21-15, it was a pretty big deal.
Yes, it was a horrible call but... it wasn't the worst roughing the passer call that I saw yesterday.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
was a terrible call, but such a troll thread topic, which was not necessary
Still not worse than the tuck call which did cost the Raiders the game.
Tuck Rule call was absolutely the correct application of a terrible rule (which has since been changed). Yesterday was a terrible application of a good rule.

Also, I chalk this up mostly to the league being overprotective of QBs. Could have been any QB

No way. This was a "star call" ala NBA style.

To your point... was the dude that sacked/slammed/knocked out Tua flagged? That actually "looked" violent, although I believe it was still in the framework of what is considered tackling. That Brady play was about as gentle a sack as you will find. PLUS - Brady tried to kick the dude as he got up.

Star call IMO.
In response to everyone who said that was Brady getting a “star” call, I submit to you … Derek Carr
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy


Was this the worst call you have ever seen for Roughing the Passer? I want to say yes but I've seen so many flags called for grazes to the helmet or phantom contact that didn't happen. I'm not sure where this ranks but it belongs on the Mt Rushmore of bad calls for '22 so far.


What is Jarrett supposed to do? Jerome Boger's explanation was even worse than the call and he should be suspended or removed from the field of officiating for a while.
Bucs were up 21-0 and getting ready to punt with the score cut to 21-15, it was a pretty big deal.
Yes, it was a horrible call but... it wasn't the worst roughing the passer call that I saw yesterday.
That was pretty awful, but it is also the first time I can ever remember the Lions actually benefiting from a bad call
 

irish eyes

Footballguy
Hilarious, gave Adams 200 billion dollars but throw to Mack freakin Hollins in double coverage. That's why Carr is below average
 

Dizzy

Footballguy
was a terrible call, but such a troll thread topic, which was not necessary
Still not worse than the tuck call which did cost the Raiders the game.
Tuck Rule call was absolutely the correct application of a terrible rule (which has since been changed). Yesterday was a terrible application of a good rule.

Also, I chalk this up mostly to the league being overprotective of QBs. Could have been any QB

No way. This was a "star call" ala NBA style.

To your point... was the dude that sacked/slammed/knocked out Tua flagged? That actually "looked" violent, although I believe it was still in the framework of what is considered tackling. That Brady play was about as gentle a sack as you will find. PLUS - Brady tried to kick the dude as he got up.

Star call IMO.
In response to everyone who said that was Brady getting a “star” call, I submit to you … Derek Carr

I thought the same thing. Even funnier was the crowd booing and losing their minds when the Mahomes sack didn't draw a flag.
 

elmanx

Footballguy


Was this the worst call you have ever seen for Roughing the Passer? I want to say yes but I've seen so many flags called for grazes to the helmet or phantom contact that didn't happen. I'm not sure where this ranks but it belongs on the Mt Rushmore of bad calls for '22 so far.


What is Jarrett supposed to do? Jerome Boger's explanation was even worse than the call and he should be suspended or removed from the field of officiating for a while.
Bucs were up 21-0 and getting ready to punt with the score cut to 21-15, it was a pretty big deal.
Turns out it wasn't even the worst roughing call this week.
 
The tuck rule was technically correct.
no it was not. the call on the field was a fumble and there was not evidence to overturn the call in such an important playoff game.

al davis said his problem with it was the lengthy phone call the ref was having on the sideline. I think if we could hear that conversation, the idea that it was the "correct call" would be an even worse joke than it already is. if it was so obvious and easy to overturn and just going by the rule book. why was there a phone call? why was it obvious to everyone watching(including the refs) that it was a fumble?

it was just as correct as the roughing the passer call against atlanta. complete BS and it happens to other teams too if they are not favored by the league.
Not a lot to gain by rehashing plays from 20 years ago, but referee Walt Coleman indicated the crew didn’t get a clear view of the play (especially in the snow), and the crew opted to call the play a fumble because they could sort it out on replay. They were trained on those types of plays to let the play conclude and then sort it out. Coleman said the play on video was a clear example of the tuck rule, and there wasn’t much to debate. He also indicated had the call been ruled an incomplete pass, that would not have been a reviewable play. IMO, the crew did the best they could to get the call right. The rule itself made no sense, but the officials reviewed and resolved it fairly. NE had the tuck rule go against them earlier that year, and BB knew that should have been the call and was in the face of the officiating crew as soon as it happened. Unfortunately for Raiders fans it was a really dumb rule, but the officials enforced the rule as written.
so why the 3 minute phone call if it's so easy to see on replay? 3 minutes at the end of a playoff game that was over once the fumble happened. the nfl now edits the call out of all footage to revise history, like it never happened: https://theethicalskeptic.com/2021/10/18/nfl-bias-against-the-oakland-las-vegas-raiders/

any other teams sue the nfl and win for biased officiating?
 

Ghost Rider

Footballguy
Hilarious, gave Adams 200 billion dollars but throw to Mack freakin Hollins in double coverage. That's why Carr is below average
Feels like that is coaching. Midway through the 4th Q last night, Adams has 3 targets. 3. Yes, Carr is the QB, but McDaniels obviously isn't calling many plays specifically for the stud WR they spent a lot to get.
 

irish eyes

Footballguy
Hilarious, gave Adams 200 billion dollars but throw to Mack freakin Hollins in double coverage. That's why Carr is below average
Feels like that is coaching. Midway through the 4th Q last night, Adams has 3 targets. 3. Yes, Carr is the QB, but McDaniels obviously isn't calling many plays specifically for the stud WR they spent a lot to get.
Good point, just another subpar coach that shouldn't be one.
 

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