The two calls that gave the game to New Orleans (1 Viewer)

[TommyGilmore]

1. The Onside Kick. It took the refs nearly 10 minutes to figure out which team got the ball, and they ended up giving the ball to New Orleans even though the replay clearly showed Reis losing the ball.

2. The Two Point Conversion. Pretty sketchy to say that Moore really had "possession" of the ball at any time during that play.

Take away those 2 plays and the Colts probably have a lead in the 4th quarter and therefore Manning doesn't throw the fateful interception.

 

[gianmarco]

1. The Onside Kick. It took the refs nearly 10 minutes to figure out which team got the ball, and they ended up giving the ball to New Orleans even though the replay clearly showed Reis losing the ball.2. The Two Point Conversion. Pretty sketchy to say that Moore really had "possession" of the ball at any time during that play.Take away those 2 plays and the Colts probably have a lead in the 4th quarter and therefore Manning doesn't throw the fateful interception.

1.7/10

 

[Sammy Traveller]

0/10

 

[Carver]

-6

 

[munchkin]

1. The Onside Kick. It took the refs nearly 10 minutes to figure out which team got the ball, and they ended up giving the ball to New Orleans even though the replay clearly showed Reis losing the ball.2. The Two Point Conversion. Pretty sketchy to say that Moore really had "possession" of the ball at any time during that play.Take away those 2 plays and the Colts probably have a lead in the 4th quarter and therefore Manning doesn't throw the fateful interception.

When you have to dig this deep to play Devil's Advocate you really lose credibility.

 

[PatsFanCT]

-10/10

 

[switz]

First, I agree that the NFL had more interest in the Saints winning than Indy... but...

1. The Onside Kick. It took the refs nearly 10 minutes to figure out which team got the ball, and they ended up giving the ball to New Orleans even though the replay clearly showed Reis losing the ball.

Unfortunately it didn't show any clear recovery, so you have to throw the replay you saw out the window. In the bottom of those scrums, the ball changes hands a bunch of times, and apparently when the ref finally saw it, it was in a Saints players hands. I didn't watch the replay over and over, only saw it the one time they showed it during the broadcast... it didn't look like the ball went 10 yards or a Colts player touched it before the Saints did. IF that's the case, it should have been a penalty and a rekick. But I'm not 100% sure that's the case, as I didn't bother replaying it....

2. The Two Point Conversion. Pretty sketchy to say that Moore really had "possession" of the ball at any time during that play.

I'm with you 100% on this one, I have no idea how they overruled it... it didn't look like a completion to me, even on replay. None of that forced Maning to throw the INT, the INT was due to a bad route by Wayne.The only calls I really thought were awful were the blatant pass interference non-calls, and the horrible OPI called when the replay showed it should have been DPI in the EZ.

 

[mattsam]

1. The Onside Kick. It took the refs nearly 10 minutes to figure out which team got the ball, and they ended up giving the ball to New Orleans even though the replay clearly showed Reis losing the ball.2. The Two Point Conversion. Pretty sketchy to say that Moore really had "possession" of the ball at any time during that play.Take away those 2 plays and the Colts probably have a lead in the 4th quarter and therefore Manning doesn't throw the fateful interception.

STRETCH you are blind on both accounts. The most obvious Moore had possession TWICE in the endzone before it ever touched the ground! The Onside was obviously recovered with the player on the ground with his arm. It was a done deal before the pile on.

 

[Doug B]

I didn't watch the replay over and over, only saw it the one time they showed it during the broadcast... it didn't look like the ball went 10 yards or a Colts player touched it before the Saints did. IF that's the case, it should have been a penalty and a rekick. But I'm not 100% sure that's the case, as I didn't bother replaying it....

Switz ... Hank Baskett -- super-clearly and obviously -- was the first player from either team to touch the ball. It bounced off of his chest! I mean, Baskett was standing by himself when this happened ... no other players were obscuring the view.Much respect for your longtime contributions to this board ... but I don't see where you're coming from with these takes your posting today.

EDIT:

This too?

The only calls I really thought were awful were the blatant pass interference non-calls, and the horrible OPI called when the replay showed it should have been DPI in the EZ.

Switz ... come on now.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

1. I don't think it was Reis who came out with the ball anyway. A Saints LB n(Casillas - #52) looked as if he jumped on it along with a Colts player, and the Saints had the ball when they unpiled everyone, and I think Nantz said that it was Casillas who came away with the ball.

2. Moore had posession while on the ground (he gained control after the initial bobble), and had broken the plane of the GL. The ball was kicked out of his hands after that had happened, so the call was right. It was a hell of a play to be aware that he wasn't in, and to extend the ball across the GL while falling to the ground like that.

 

[switz]

I didn't watch the replay over and over, only saw it the one time they showed it during the broadcast... it didn't look like the ball went 10 yards or a Colts player touched it before the Saints did. IF that's the case, it should have been a penalty and a rekick. But I'm not 100% sure that's the case, as I didn't bother replaying it....

Switz ... Hank Baskett -- super-clearly and obviously -- was the first player from either team to touch the ball. It bounced off of his chest! I mean, Baskett was standing by himself when this happened ... no other players were obscuring the view.Much respect for your longtime contributions to this board ... but I don't see where you're coming from with these takes your posting today.

It looked to me like it bounced off the ground in front of him... If it helps, I was watching it with a bunch of Saints fans, who all groaned thinking the same thing I did.

 

[FlapJacks]

The most obvious Moore had possession TWICE in the endzone before it ever touched the ground!

But the first time he had possesion did not make it a reception becuse he must maintain possession to the ground.By replay, he only established the rection by a split second.

 

[switz]

The only calls I really thought were awful were the blatant pass interference non-calls, and the horrible OPI called when the replay showed it should have been DPI in the EZ.

Switz ... come on now.

Doug, the DB was pushing the WR backwards, you can't do that. That should have been a penalty on the defense, not the offense. Go watch it again. It was very obvious.

 

[Bull Dozier]

1. The Onside Kick. It took the refs nearly 10 minutes to figure out which team got the ball, and they ended up giving the ball to New Orleans even though the replay clearly showed Reis losing the ball.2. The Two Point Conversion. Pretty sketchy to say that Moore really had "possession" of the ball at any time during that play.Take away those 2 plays and the Colts probably have a lead in the 4th quarter and therefore Manning doesn't throw the fateful interception.

STRETCH you are blind on both accounts. The most obvious Moore had possession TWICE in the endzone before it ever touched the ground! The Onside was obviously recovered with the player on the ground with his arm. It was a done deal before the pile on.

He didn't really have possesion twice since the first time he had "possession" he hadn't touched the ground yet. You have to hit the ground before having a catch. He did lose the ball, regain control, and his shoulder hit the ground briefly before losing it again. I'm really surprised they overturned it, because I've seen receivers have the ball longer than this in the field and they call it a drop, but I personally think it was a good call here.

 

[Ghost Rider]

.. it didn't look like the ball went 10 yards or a Colts player touched it before the Saints did.

Uh, the ball went about 13 yards.

 

[Black]

.. it didn't look like the ball went 10 yards or a Colts player touched it before the Saints did.

Uh, the ball went about 13 yards.

...and hit #81 of the Colts.Sad, sad, sad to see the reaching. I thought it was a well refereed game.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

The onside kick was probably the single biggest play you could point to that put the Saints in the driver's seat.

1. The 50 yard FG attempt by a kicker who hasn't hit from that range in three years didn't help.

2. Inability to convert 3rd and short after NOR failed on 4th down @ the goal line. That extra FG NOR picked up as a result was huge. Without it (all else being equal), the Colts are driving down the field for a FG to tie instead of a TD.

 

[switz]

.. it didn't look like the ball went 10 yards or a Colts player touched it before the Saints did.

Uh, the ball went about 13 yards.

...and hit #81 of the Colts.Sad, sad, sad to see the reaching. I thought it was a well refereed game.

Like I said in my initial post a) I wasn't sure, nor 100%, b) I didn't get to replay it afterward to check.I didn't blame the loss on the refs at all...

 

[Ghost Rider]

I thought it was a well refereed game.

It was. It was refreshing to see a Super Bowl where there were no bad or controversial calls.

 

[FavreCo]

Fail.

 

[fatness]

Remember when there was no crying in football? Now every other thread is some whiner

 

[Black]

The only calls I really thought were awful were the blatant pass interference non-calls, and the horrible OPI called when the replay showed it should have been DPI in the EZ.

Switz ... come on now.

Doug, the DB was pushing the WR backwards, you can't do that. That should have been a penalty on the defense, not the offense. Go watch it again. It was very obvious.

I rewound that and a few other plays a few times. Garcon was grabbing the CBs arm because the CB was in better position to catch the ball. It was a smart play by him, because that probably would have been a clean interception otherwise. Not sure why Peyton threw it in front.

 

[Godsbrother]

I see we have the mandatory "refs blew the game" thread. Good job!

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Do you blame the coach for the players not being prepared for an onside kick?

 

[Chaka]

1) All credit to the Saints and Sean Payton for having the cajones to make that call. I think that was the boldest play call I have seen in SB history. If they don't recover he's considered a fool for calling it but no less bold.

2) I really thought the replay was clear and it was a good catch but I could see it not being overturned, either way that play had zero impact on the rest of the game and those two points were ultimately meaningless.

 

[Instinctive]

The onside kick was probably the single biggest play you could point to that put the Saints in the driver's seat.

1. The 50 yard FG attempt by a kicker who hasn't hit from that range in three years didn't help.

2. Inability to convert 3rd and short after NOR failed on 4th down @ the goal line. That extra FG NOR picked up as a result was huge. Without it (all else being equal), the Colts are driving down the field for a FG to tie instead of a TD.

oh lord. That was a huge rookie head coach error, IMO. You have 2 minutes. You have Peyton Manning. You have a one possession lead. And you run the ball 3 times from your own goalline and give them the ball with a minute at midfield?Sean Payton would have gone down to throw. Not run it 3 times. One of the biggest advantages the Saints had all game was coaching.

 

[Chaka]

Do you blame the coach for the players not being prepared for an onside kick?

Yes

 

[Doug B]

It looked to me like it bounced off the ground in front of him...

The ball doesn't have to go ten yards in the air ... it was OK for the ball to bounce off the ground before ten yards.Remember, an onside kick is executed by bouncing the ball off the turf to begin with. If your take was correct, onside kicks couldn't be done that way ... they have to be lofted up.

 

[Doug B]

The only calls I really thought were awful were the blatant pass interference non-calls, and the horrible OPI called when the replay showed it should have been DPI in the EZ.

Switz ... come on now.

Doug, the DB was pushing the WR backwards, you can't do that.

If you mean the DB was "posting up" and using his back and butt to "clear out" the WR ... I think that's for all intents & purposes "legal" so long as the DB is looking at the ball and isn't using his hands to grab jersey or push off. Never seen that kind of defense called a PI without some handwork being involved.

 

[Capella]

I think it was unfair of the Saints to pull a move like that on the Colts, when the Colts were clearly expecting a normal kickoff.

 

[finito]

What an awful thread.

"gave the game" is ridiculous. The Saints played better than the Colts for most of the game.

Are we going to talk about Drew Brees' incredible performance or is that going to be completed glossed over for a couple of plays that illicit sour grapes. How about Pierre Thomas's wonderful catch and run into the end zone?

How about that Garcon drop? How about that Manning/Wayne miscommunication that led to a defensive TD?

Saying the refs "gave" the game to NO is a slap to the face to the Saints who played a heck of a game.

 

[FavreCo]

You would have been more accurate if you would have said 'Dungy's prediction gave the game to the Saints'.

 

[Doug B]

The only calls I really thought were awful were the blatant pass interference non-calls, and the horrible OPI called when the replay showed it should have been DPI in the EZ.

Switz ... come on now.

Doug, the DB was pushing the WR backwards, you can't do that.

If you mean the DB was "posting up" and using his back and butt to "clear out" the WR ... I think that's for all intents & purposes "legal" so long as the DB is looking at the ball and isn't using his hands to grab jersey or push off. Never seen that kind of defense called a PI without some handwork being involved.

From the NFL's Digest of Rules (my comments in red):Actions that constitute defensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver’s opportunity to make the catch. Greer was playing the ball and was entitled to his position.

(b) Playing through the back of a receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball. Nope

© Grabbing a receiver’s arm(s) in such a manner that restricts his opportunity to catch a pass. Nope

(d) Extending an arm across the body of a receiver thus restricting his ability to catch a pass, regardless of whether the defender is playing the ball. Nope -- Greer was in front

(e) Cutting off the path of a receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball. Greer was playing the ball

(f) Hooking a receiver in an attempt to get to the ball in such a manner that it causes the receiver’s body to turn prior to the ball arriving. Nope

Actions that do not constitute pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Incidental contact by a defender’s hands, arms, or body when both players are competing for the ball, or neither player is looking for the ball. If there is any question whether contact is incidental, the ruling shall be no interference. This case most closely describes the Greer play, IMHO.

(b) Inadvertent tangling of feet when both players are playing the ball or neither player is playing the ball. Nope

© Contact that would normally be considered pass interference, but the pass is clearly uncatchable by the involved players. Nope

(d) Laying a hand on a receiver that does not restrict the receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball. N/A

(e) Contact by a defender who has gained position on a receiver in an attempt to catch the ball. This may have come into play, too

 

[ATC1]

The onside kick was probably the single biggest play you could point to that put the Saints in the driver's seat.

1. The 50 yard FG attempt by a kicker who hasn't hit from that range in three years didn't help.

2. Inability to convert 3rd and short after NOR failed on 4th down @ the goal line. That extra FG NOR picked up as a result was huge. Without it (all else being equal), the Colts are driving down the field for a FG to tie instead of a TD.

In other words, the saints defense did what they needed to do. Noted.

 

[Mcnabbfan]

I thought it was a well refereed game.

It was. It was refreshing to see a Super Bowl where there were no bad or controversial calls.

I second this post. This was one of the few games played where I wasn't screaming for an officials head due to some questionable call. I give the officiating crew big props for being a non-factor and letting the teams decide the game on the field.

 

[RoxSolid]

While we are talking important plays that turned the complexion of the game...Colts up 10-0 and moving...3rd down Garcon drops a 15-20 yard pass. If he catches that we may be looking at 17-0 and a completely different game. Instead, Colts punt and Saints put 3 on the board.

 

[Workhorse]

I think it was unfair of the Saints to pull a move like that on the Colts, when the Colts were clearly expecting a normal kickoff.

Bill Polian will address this with the rules committee in the offseason, I'm sure.

 

[JamesTheScot]

The only calls I really thought were awful were the blatant pass interference non-calls, and the horrible OPI called when the replay showed it should have been DPI in the EZ.

Switz ... come on now.

Doug, the DB was pushing the WR backwards, you can't do that. That should have been a penalty on the defense, not the offense. Go watch it again. It was very obvious.

I rewound that and a few other plays a few times. Garcon was grabbing the CBs arm because the CB was in better position to catch the ball. It was a smart play by him, because that probably would have been a clean interception otherwise. Not sure why Peyton threw it in front.

Exactly. The DB wasn't doing anymore pushing off than the WR was trying to do up to that point. I think the ref figured all contact up to that point was incidental contact and minor hand-checking that goes on in every tight coverage situation. What got called was when the WR, from the disadvantaged position (now acting as a beaten defender) clearly and blatantly reached outside his body and grabbed the DB's arm to keep him from cleanly catching the pass. If you reverse the positioning and put the WR in front with the DB behind, that reach-and-grab gets called 100% on the DB so long as the ref sees it. It would never be called as OPI on the WR. Good call.As for the 2 point conversion. From what I saw, Moore had the ball under control when he swung it across the plane while still airborne. The ball did move in his hands a little after that but it was after his shoulder hit the ground and the ball was across the plane. When he hit the ground, by his shoulder, it was still under his control. So far as I know, as long as he maintains possession to the ground, it was a score. The pic below shows his choulder on the ground, the ball under control and the ball across the plane. It was just after this point that the ball rolled in his hands. I think it was a good call.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/photos/2010/feb/07/152947/

As for the onside kick, the ball clearly bounced off Baskett. IIRC, even if the ball hasn't gone 10 yards, as long as a receiving team player touches it first, it's a live ball. The first Saint defender gets the ball and then it slips out and under his legs, which is when Baskett maybe and other players pile into him. The replay showed no possession by a Colt as far as I know.

 

[Ghost Rider]

While we are talking important plays that turned the complexion of the game...Colts up 10-0 and moving...3rd down Garcon drops a 15-20 yard pass. If he catches that we may be looking at 17-0 and a completely different game. Instead, Colts punt and Saints put 3 on the board.

Colston had a similar drop on the Saints second drive, so I would say, the drops evened out.

 

[Todem]

This thread is one big giant

FAIL

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

Doug, the DB was pushing the WR backwards, you can't do that. That should have been a penalty on the defense, not the offense. Go watch it again. It was very obvious.

this part i gotta agree with. but yea, pretty sure that loser baskett touched the ball first, it looked to me like it went off of his helmet as he was falling over.the 2 point conversion was a good call too imo, on the replay it was clear at least to me that the receiver adjusted his hands and showed control as he pushed it over the line and fell on his back before the defender kicked it out of his hands. i'm guessing that if the defender didn't kick the ball out but instead the ball fell out on its own as the receiver fell, then it would have been ruled incomplete. so technically the kicking out of his hands thing is what gave him the conversion.

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

While we are talking important plays that turned the complexion of the game...Colts up 10-0 and moving...3rd down Garcon drops a 15-20 yard pass. If he catches that we may be looking at 17-0 and a completely different game. Instead, Colts punt and Saints put 3 on the board.

Colston had a similar drop on the Saints second drive, so I would say, the drops evened out.

Been having this conversation all morning with coworkers, Garcon's drop killed the drive and took away a chance to go up by three scores. Indy knows how to eat up the clock, 17-0 or even 13-0 is a whole different ball game than what it ended up being.The calls that gave the game away didn't come from the refs, it came from Indy coaching during the last Indy drive of the first half.

 

[motor guy]

You might as well blame the suspicious coin toss.

 

[munchkin]

You might as well blame the suspicious coin toss.

Emmit was a great player but dude can't flip a coin. Probably unlike any coin most of us have held or flipped; looked like it weighed a couple of pounds.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Um, saying the 2-point conversion had an impact on the final result is kinda like saying the Republican have a majority with 41 votes in the Senate.

I mean the score was 22-17 if it didn't happen.

The Colts still need a touchdown on that next drive.

-QG

 

[Fred Flintstone]

1. The Onside Kick. It took the refs nearly 10 minutes to figure out which team got the ball, and they ended up giving the ball to New Orleans even though the replay clearly showed Reis losing the ball.2. The Two Point Conversion. Pretty sketchy to say that Moore really had "possession" of the ball at any time during that play.Take away those 2 plays and the Colts probably have a lead in the 4th quarter and therefore Manning doesn't throw the fateful interception.

Probably fishing on your part, but you're wrong on both accounts.1- It's not who has the ball first, it's who has it last, and when the refs actually see possession.2- The Two Point Conversion was correctly overturned. You need possession of the ball, and be over the end zone line, that makes it a dead ball. He clearly did both after he lost possession at first, the the ball was kicked out of his hands.

 

[Fred Flintstone]

I didn't watch the replay over and over, only saw it the one time they showed it during the broadcast... it didn't look like the ball went 10 yards or a Colts player touched it before the Saints did. IF that's the case, it should have been a penalty and a rekick. But I'm not 100% sure that's the case, as I didn't bother replaying it....

Switz ... Hank Baskett -- super-clearly and obviously -- was the first player from either team to touch the ball. It bounced off of his chest! I mean, Baskett was standing by himself when this happened ... no other players were obscuring the view.Much respect for your longtime contributions to this board ... but I don't see where you're coming from with these takes your posting today.

It looked to me like it bounced off the ground in front of him... If it helps, I was watching it with a bunch of Saints fans, who all groaned thinking the same thing I did.

I believe it did, but that was at the 42 or 43 yard line, clearly going past the 10 yards.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Man, just can't let go of the 'Saints got there through luck and favoritism' theme, eh?

The Saints got here by beating THREE (3) HALL OF FAME QUARTERBACKS.

Warner.

Favre.

And Peyton Manning.

The Saints outcoached, out-defensed, ouplayed, and out-quarterbacked the Colts.

 

[Tau837]

I thought it was a well refereed game.

It was. It was refreshing to see a Super Bowl where there were no bad or controversial calls.

I second this post. This was one of the few games played where I wasn't screaming for an officials head due to some questionable call. I give the officiating crew big props for being a non-factor and letting the teams decide the game on the field.

Agreed, very refreshing.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I think the right call was made on the onsides. Honestly, with as big of a scrum as there was, the only thing that was going to matter was who came out with the ball. Not much that they could do on that one. Got to give credit to Payton for having the guts to call for the onsides and to the Saints players for scrapping under there.

Since I think that they made the right call there, the other call didn't end up factoring in. With that being said, the refs clearly blew the 2 point conversion call. The rule says that the player must have the ball all the way to the ground without it dislodging when he hits the ground. The receiver didn't go clear to the ground with possession, therefore it was not a catch. The head of NFL officials tried to defend the call today by saying that once the ball broke the plane of the goal while the player had possession, that it was a catch and conversion. But the rule states no such thing. Possession isn't established until the player goes clear to the ground with control of the ball. There is NO exception made regarding the goal line. Catch and possession has consistently been ruled the same way all season. It was pretty egregious to not only make the wrong call there, but to overturn the correct call and then have the head of officiating defend it.

But again, that one call didn't change the outcome of the game. It just demonstrated how screwed up the possession rule is and how ridiculously the NFL defends its referees.