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The Unjust Killing of Hunter Brittain By Police In Arkansas - Sharpton And Others On The Scene Saying, Essentially, All Lives Matter (1 Viewer)

Violent crimes have been on the decline since 1990

Police killings is relatively stagnant over the last ~10 years.

Being a police officer is tough - one of the toughest jobs out there.  It’s slightly easier now than 30 years ago.  We need improvement with training and education.  We need to continue reducing those violent crime numbers.  I’m of the opinion that the best thing we can do is help mentally ill and addicted folks.  I’m in favor of having dedicated folks that deal with the homeless and mentally ill people and take that away from untrained officers.
I would argue its far tougher today to be a cop than even two years ago.  The crime stats in defund the police cities bear that out.  30 years ago, no one had a camera phone, now everyone does - many are filming any police movement.

 
I would argue its far tougher today to be a cop than even two years ago.  The crime stats in defund the police cities bear that out.  30 years ago, no one had a camera phone, now everyone does - many are filming any police movement.
I’d agree, generally it seems on the job complexity has increased exponentially.

 
I would just like to play devil's advocate on the militarization of the police......have you ever talked to cops who are out there on the front lines?  I know a few who are good dudes.  It's a #### show out there!  And it's getting worse for them. 

Do I think we need reform and better training?  Absolutely.....but there are a lot of emboldened criminals out there.  And I dont really care if mommy didn't love them enough or they got hooked on drugs.....I don't want them messing with me or my family or my property. imo, we need police more than ever because of all the P's of S out there.
At some point in time many in society started viewing things a lot differently. 

I imagine 30 years ago if police told a trespasser to vacate and they simply refused the police would just arrest them. If they fought the police and resisted arrest they would be subdued and put in jail.

Now if somebody refuses to leave when trespassing the expectation is that cops will just leave them alone. 

I dont think that makes us better.

 
they're very real stats, that much is true

as an example of that article, graduation rates / quality of education has nothing to do with systematic racism in 2021 - it has everything to do with community/leaders/culture/choices

not racism


Rather than say "nothing" and "everything", isn't it possible that these results are caused by a combination of BOTH community/leaders/culture/choices AND institutional/historical practices that disadvantage certain groups?

And, is it possible that there are even causal links between the two - that some of the problematic aspects of community/leaders/culture/choices are to some extent the result of institutional/historical practices that disadvantage certain groups?

 
Chaz McNulty said:
Of course they do.  They account for a much larger percent of the population.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124036/number-people-killed-police-ethnicity-us/

2019 - killed by police

whites - 12 per million

hispanics - 23 per million

blacks - 30 per million
But that is because they live in areas which much higher concentration of crimes and more police interactions, not because of racist police or racist policies.   The solution is to get out of those gang-ridden inner cities.

 
AAABatteries said:
Violent crimes have been on the decline since 1990

Police killings is relatively stagnant over the last ~10 years.

Being a police officer is tough - one of the toughest jobs out there.  It’s slightly easier now than 30 years ago.  We need improvement with training and education.  We need to continue reducing those violent crime numbers.  I’m of the opinion that the best thing we can do is help mentally ill and addicted folks.  I’m in favor of having dedicated folks that deal with the homeless and mentally ill people and take that away from untrained officers.
Training will not improve much.  It is hard to attract decent high quality individuals to a job that gets no respect.  I fully expect over the next generation there will be a huge shortage in qualified people wanting to become police officers and no amount of training is going to make up for that.   

And unfortunately 2020 saw violent crime rates shoot up including an astronomical spike in homicides which were up 25 percent over 2019.  

 
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djmich said:
FairWarning said:
I would argue its far tougher today to be a cop than even two years ago.  The crime stats in defund the police cities bear that out.  30 years ago, no one had a camera phone, now everyone does - many are filming any police movement.
I’d agree, generally it seems on the job complexity has increased exponentially.
Sure.  Officers are now expected to follow the laws, behave appropriately, and generally not abuse their positions of power.  In the old days it was much easier, they could threaten or beat someone first and make up a story later.

Before you say it, this isn't a race thing.  This is a "we have far too many police who abuse their authority" thing.

 
Sure.  Officers are now expected to follow the laws, behave appropriately, and generally not abuse their positions of power.  In the old days it was much easier, they could threaten or beat someone first and make up a story later.

Before you say it, this isn't a race thing.  This is a "we have far too many police who abuse their authority" thing.
I’m not going to disagree with you, sorry. The media only reports the police on blacks though.  

 
“grievance politics, something that is anathema to the right.”

lol. Maybe in 1950. Today’s cnservative politics is based on victimhood. Guys like Trump proved that persecution complex plays well to the base.
That is the way dishonest people characterize it.  Advocating for Free speech and against censorship is not vicgimhood politics.  Advocating for equal treatment is not victimhood.  Leftist love to rebrand words to flip their meaning to hide their evil intentions. 

Victimhood politics is to try to engineer equal outcomes based on their elitist idea on what that should be.  Equality under the law which we fought a civil war to achieve is what conservatives fight for.  Today's racial warriors on the left are nothing but rebranded communists. 

 
That is the way dishonest people characterize it.  Advocating for Free speech and against censorship is not vicgimhood politics.  Advocating for equal treatment is not victimhood.  Leftist love to rebrand words to flip their meaning to hide their evil intentions. 

Victimhood politics is to try to engineer equal outcomes based on their elitist idea on what that should be.  Equality under the law which we fought a civil war to achieve is what conservatives fight for.  Today's racial warriors on the left are nothing but rebranded communists. 
How is the stolen election angle working for Trump?

 
Rather than say "nothing" and "everything", isn't it possible that these results are caused by a combination of BOTH community/leaders/culture/choices AND institutional/historical practices that disadvantage certain groups?

And, is it possible that there are even causal links between the two - that some of the problematic aspects of community/leaders/culture/choices are to some extent the result of institutional/historical practices that disadvantage certain groups?
Not so much no and the reason is, the people being killed by officers were almost all doing wrong / illegal things were they not? 

Its so rare that someone is killed by police and there wasn't probable cause. it does happen - and when it does, its national news like its something that happens every minute of the day

it doesn't - its very very rare. Could racism play a part? If it is, then black officers are targeting whites too, and black officers targeting blacks, and brown officers .... I mean we can what if on how prejudices may or may not play a role but fact is, with rare rare instances do officers truly get it wrong

Hunter Brittain appears to be one of those very rare cases, and it was a white officer killing a white teenager. I'm actually surprised this is even being discussed, nobody cared about Tony Timpa or all the other whites being killed by police, maybe there IS a turning point now and people are beginning to realize color of skin isn't a factor when it comes to police and the jobs they're trying to do

 
Hunter Brittain appears to be one of those very rare cases, and it was a white officer killing a white teenager. I'm actually surprised this is even being discussed, nobody cared about Tony Timpa or all the other whites being killed by police, maybe there IS a turning point now and people are beginning to realize color of skin isn't a factor when it comes to police and the jobs they're trying to do
Kelly Thomas in Fullerton was more than discussed. White people being killed by police brutally is being discussed. You know why? Cell phone cameras and video. No more, no less than that. That's what brought the attention to the mainstream. For many, it was proof of racial bias. For others, just a sign police had gotten out of control. But that's where the general dissatisfaction with policing is coming from. Cell phone capture.

 
Kelly Thomas in Fullerton was more than discussed. White people being killed by police brutally is being discussed. You know why? Cell phone cameras and video. No more, no less than that. That's what brought the attention to the mainstream. For many, it was proof of racial bias. For others, just a sign police had gotten out of control. But that's where the general dissatisfaction with policing is coming from. Cell phone capture.
1 police mistake out of what, 1,000? 5,000 ? its not "out of control"

its proof of racial bias only if all the people in this incidents we're doing stuff wrong and they almost always are

 
Maybe it is time for BLM to be more progressive, inclusive and  PC and evolve into an "ALM" movement,  Rally white, black, hispanic, arab and asians into one group.
That is a pipe dream.  It would be a nightmare scenario for indentity politics.

 
Training will not improve much.  It is hard to attract decent high quality individuals to a job that gets no respect.  I fully expect over the next generation there will be a huge shortage in qualified people wanting to become police officers and no amount of training is going to make up for that.   

And unfortunately 2020 saw violent crime rates shoot up including an astronomical spike in homicides which were up 25 percent over 2019.  
The established police culture discourages honest, integrity driven people from joining their ranks.  For every explosive story about retaliation towards an honest cop, there are likely dozens more who were ostracized or denied promotion for speaking out against the bad cops around them.  Then we wonder how we can have situations with 4 or more cops where all the cops were willing to go along with a lie.  This cancer is ingrained in their culture, within even the simple courtesy of not ticketing fellow cops.

https://danwang.co/statistics-on-police-fatalities/

Based on fatalities/officer, police work has gotten steadily safer since the 70s.  Too many cop apologists don't bother to look at stats.

 
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The established police culture discourages honest, integrity driven people from joining their ranks.  For every explosive story about retaliation towards an honest cop, there are likely dozens more who were ostracized or denied promotion for speaking out against the bad cops around them.  Then we wonder how we can have situations with 4 or more cops where all the cops were willing to go along with a lie.  This cancer is ingrained in their culture, within even the simple courtesy of not ticketing fellow cops.

https://danwang.co/statistics-on-police-fatalities/

Based on fatalities/officer, police work has gotten steadily safer since the 70s.  Too many cop apologists don't bother to look at stats.


That was the trend.  Over the last year violence against police has shot up over 30 percent.   These last year of anti-police protests has lead to steep rises in all kinds violence.  

 
That was the trend.  Over the last year violence against police has shot up over 30 percent.   These last year of anti-police protests has lead to steep rises in all kinds violence.  
https://www.lapd.com/article/264-leos-killed-line-duty-2020

"Firearms-related fatalities claimed the lives of 48 officers in 2020, a 6% decrease compared to the 51 officers killed in firearms-related incidents in 2019."

I haven't seen any stats for 2021 yet.  I want to clarify also that my jab at "apologists not bothering to look at stats" was not aimed at you.  My main response was to your point about the lack of "acceptable" applicants for police work, but I saw what looked like boot licking from other posters earlier in the thread.

edit:

https://nleomf.org/preliminary-fatalities

This source shows the 2021 police firearm fatality rate through July closely matching 2020.

 
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https://www.lapd.com/article/264-leos-killed-line-duty-2020

"Firearms-related fatalities claimed the lives of 48 officers in 2020, a 6% decrease compared to the 51 officers killed in firearms-related incidents in 2019."

I haven't seen any stats for 2021 yet.  I want to clarify also that my jab at "apologists not bothering to look at stats" was not aimed at you.  My main response was to your point about the lack of "acceptable" applicants for police work, but I saw what looked like boot licking from other posters earlier in the thread.

edit:

https://nleomf.org/preliminary-fatalities

This source shows the 2021 police firearm fatality rate through July closely matching 2020.


According to the FBI’s Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted database (LEOKA), fatal felony attacks on officers spiked 31.6% in early 2021.

Ambush attacks on police officers up 91% in 2021 compared to last year, group says

2021 is on pace to be America's deadliest year of gun violence in the last two decades.

 
The first link is comparing 4 months in 2020 to 4 months is 2021 and fatal felony attacks increased from 19 to 25, but as seen by the updated link I posted, that number has since returned to mean at 31 through July 19 for both 2020 and 2021.

The second link uses the term "ambush attack."  They recorded 48 ambush attacks on cops in 2020 and 40 through June in 2021.  I'm not sure how they determine which encounters are ambushes but maybe there is a developing trend there.

All things considered, the surging gun violence between 2019-2021 seems to have left cops relatively unscathed. 

 

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