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This supposed WR depth everyone keeps talking about... (1 Viewer)

Gatorman

Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Looking at last years' stats, it seems that the WR curve looks about hte same as always. However, people keep talking about WR depth as the reasoning behind taking a QB or TE early.Can someone explain this to me?

Rush Rush Rush Num Rec Rec Fum Fan # Pos Wide Receiver NFL GP Att Yds TDs Rec Yds TDs Lost Pts--- --- --------------------- --- -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----- 1 WR Harrison,Marvin IND 16 0 0 0 95 1366 12 1 208.6 2 WR Owens,Terrell DAL 16 0 0 0 85 1180 13 0 196.0 3 WR Wayne,Reggie IND 16 0 0 0 86 1310 9 0 185.0 4 WR Johnson,Chad CIN 16 6 24 0 87 1370 7 1 181.4 5 WR Holt,Torry STL 16 0 0 0 93 1188 10 1 178.8 6 WR Driver,Donald GB 16 7 16 0 92 1295 8 0 178.4 7 WR Evans,Lee BUF 16 0 0 0 82 1290 8 1 177.1 8 WR Smith,Steve CAR 14 8 61 1 83 1166 8 0 176.7 9 WR Walker,Javon DEN 16 9 123 1 69 1084 8 0 174.7 10 WR Williams,Roy DET 16 2 2 0 82 1310 7 2 173.2 11 WR Houshmandzadeh,T.J. CIN 14 3 6 0 90 1081 9 0 162.7 12 WR Burress,Plaxico NYG 15 0 0 0 63 988 10 1 158.8 13 WR Jackson,Darrell SEA 13 0 0 0 63 956 10 0 155.6 14 WR Colston,Marques NO 14 0 0 0 70 1038 8 0 151.8 15 WR Galloway,Joey TB 16 2 9 0 62 1057 7 0 148.6 16 WR Coles,Laveranues NYJ 16 2 14 0 91 1098 6 0 147.2 17 WR Boldin,Anquan ARI 16 5 28 0 83 1203 4 0 147.1 18 WR Johnson,Andre HOU 16 3 14 0 103 1147 5 0 146.1 19 WR Furrey,Mike DET 16 0 0 0 98 1086 6 1 144.6 20 WR Glenn,Terry DAL 16 3 11 0 70 1047 6 0 141.8 21 WR Brown,Reggie PHI 16 3 24 1 46 816 8 0 140.0 22 WR Ward,Hines PIT 14 2 30 0 74 975 6 1 136.5 23 WR Cotchery,Jerricho NYJ 16 5 25 0 82 961 6 0 134.6 24 WR Fitzgerald,Larry ARI 13 1 5 0 68 941 6 0 130.6 25 WR Bruce,Isaac STL 16 0 0 0 74 1098 3 0 127.8 26 WR Edwards,Braylon CLE 16 4 12 0 60 879 6 0 125.1 27 WR Moss,Santana WAS 14 7 82 0 55 790 6 0 123.2 28 WR Clayton,Mark BAL 16 7 -30 0 67 939 5 0 120.9 29 WR Kennison,Eddie KC 16 4 16 0 53 860 5 0 117.6 30 WR Muhammad,Muhsin CHI 16 0 0 0 60 863 5 1 116.3 31 WR Henry,Chris CIN 13 0 0 0 36 605 9 0 114.5 32 WR Berrian,Bernard CHI 15 2 5 0 51 775 6 1 114.0 33 WR Booker,Marty MIA 14 3 19 0 55 747 6 0 112.6 34 WR Henderson,Devery NO 13 2 14 1 32 745 5 0 111.9 35 WR Johnson,Keyshawn CAR 16 1 4 1 70 815 4 1 110.9 36 WR Stallworth,Donte' PHI 12 0 0 0 38 725 5 0 102.5
I am not good with this tyoe of stat transfer...sorry.
 
Personally, I love the look of the current ranked WR13-17. Evans, Driver, Colston, Housh, Burress. I would not be surprised to see any of those guys end up in the WR6-12 range at the end of the year. If I'm lucky enough to grab two of them in rounds 4 and 5, I'm pretty happy with the upside and have a solid WR core despite waiting to draft my first WR.

 
It's more of a relative value question for me, dependent on where you are in your draft. Those numbers mean nothing without context. The proliferation of RBBC pushes several backs down people's draft boards, and evens them out with some WRs. The studs are easy - it's after they are all gone that the depth at the wideout position becomes apparent.

 
Looking at last years' stats, it seems that the WR curve looks about hte same as always. However, people keep talking about WR depth as the reasoning behind taking a QB or TE early.Can someone explain this to me?

Rush Rush Rush Num Rec Rec Fum Fan # Pos Wide Receiver NFL GP Att Yds TDs Rec Yds TDs Lost Pts--- --- --------------------- --- -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----- 1 WR Harrison,Marvin IND 16 0 0 0 95 1366 12 1 208.6 2 WR Owens,Terrell DAL 16 0 0 0 85 1180 13 0 196.0 3 WR Wayne,Reggie IND 16 0 0 0 86 1310 9 0 185.0 4 WR Johnson,Chad CIN 16 6 24 0 87 1370 7 1 181.4 5 WR Holt,Torry STL 16 0 0 0 93 1188 10 1 178.8 6 WR Driver,Donald GB 16 7 16 0 92 1295 8 0 178.4 7 WR Evans,Lee BUF 16 0 0 0 82 1290 8 1 177.1 8 WR Smith,Steve CAR 14 8 61 1 83 1166 8 0 176.7 9 WR Walker,Javon DEN 16 9 123 1 69 1084 8 0 174.7 10 WR Williams,Roy DET 16 2 2 0 82 1310 7 2 173.2 11 WR Houshmandzadeh,T.J. CIN 14 3 6 0 90 1081 9 0 162.7 12 WR Burress,Plaxico NYG 15 0 0 0 63 988 10 1 158.8 13 WR Jackson,Darrell SEA 13 0 0 0 63 956 10 0 155.6 14 WR Colston,Marques NO 14 0 0 0 70 1038 8 0 151.8 15 WR Galloway,Joey TB 16 2 9 0 62 1057 7 0 148.6 16 WR Coles,Laveranues NYJ 16 2 14 0 91 1098 6 0 147.2 17 WR Boldin,Anquan ARI 16 5 28 0 83 1203 4 0 147.1 18 WR Johnson,Andre HOU 16 3 14 0 103 1147 5 0 146.1 19 WR Furrey,Mike DET 16 0 0 0 98 1086 6 1 144.6 20 WR Glenn,Terry DAL 16 3 11 0 70 1047 6 0 141.8 21 WR Brown,Reggie PHI 16 3 24 1 46 816 8 0 140.0 22 WR Ward,Hines PIT 14 2 30 0 74 975 6 1 136.5 23 WR Cotchery,Jerricho NYJ 16 5 25 0 82 961 6 0 134.6 24 WR Fitzgerald,Larry ARI 13 1 5 0 68 941 6 0 130.6 25 WR Bruce,Isaac STL 16 0 0 0 74 1098 3 0 127.8 26 WR Edwards,Braylon CLE 16 4 12 0 60 879 6 0 125.1 27 WR Moss,Santana WAS 14 7 82 0 55 790 6 0 123.2 28 WR Clayton,Mark BAL 16 7 -30 0 67 939 5 0 120.9 29 WR Kennison,Eddie KC 16 4 16 0 53 860 5 0 117.6 30 WR Muhammad,Muhsin CHI 16 0 0 0 60 863 5 1 116.3 31 WR Henry,Chris CIN 13 0 0 0 36 605 9 0 114.5 32 WR Berrian,Bernard CHI 15 2 5 0 51 775 6 1 114.0 33 WR Booker,Marty MIA 14 3 19 0 55 747 6 0 112.6 34 WR Henderson,Devery NO 13 2 14 1 32 745 5 0 111.9 35 WR Johnson,Keyshawn CAR 16 1 4 1 70 815 4 1 110.9 36 WR Stallworth,Donte' PHI 12 0 0 0 38 725 5 0 102.5
I am not good with this tyoe of stat transfer...sorry.
:lmao: :goodposting: this goes hand in hand with people making projections that are not in line with historic AVT. it is a zero sum game where there are historic constraints on how many receiving yards there is to go around. unless people start thinking that WR2s will start getting more yardage than what has happened in the past making the pool deeper, this is a perception that is just not accurate.
 
this goes hand in hand with people making projections that are not in line with historic AVT. it is a zero sum game where there are historic constraints on how many receiving yards there is to go around. unless people start thinking that WR2s will start getting more yardage than what has happened in the past making the pool deeper, this is a perception that is just not accurate.
i don't think it's unreasonable to say that, even though i'm fairly confident that (for example) only 10 WRs will finish with > 200 fantasy points given AVT, that the pool of potential WRs that could finish in that top 10 varies from year to year. And if that pool was in one's own opinion 25 WRs deep last year and is 35 WRs deep this year, the value of those 35 may move other positions on one's draft board up or down.i'm not saying i necessarily see it this year, but i think the argument could be made.
 
Looking at last years' stats, it seems that the WR curve looks about hte same as always. However, people keep talking about WR depth as the reasoning behind taking a QB or TE early.Can someone explain this to me?

Rush Rush Rush Num Rec Rec Fum Fan # Pos Wide Receiver NFL GP Att Yds TDs Rec Yds TDs Lost Pts--- --- --------------------- --- -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----- 1 WR Harrison,Marvin IND 16 0 0 0 95 1366 12 1 208.6 2 WR Owens,Terrell DAL 16 0 0 0 85 1180 13 0 196.0 3 WR Wayne,Reggie IND 16 0 0 0 86 1310 9 0 185.0 4 WR Johnson,Chad CIN 16 6 24 0 87 1370 7 1 181.4 5 WR Holt,Torry STL 16 0 0 0 93 1188 10 1 178.8 6 WR Driver,Donald GB 16 7 16 0 92 1295 8 0 178.4 7 WR Evans,Lee BUF 16 0 0 0 82 1290 8 1 177.1 8 WR Smith,Steve CAR 14 8 61 1 83 1166 8 0 176.7 9 WR Walker,Javon DEN 16 9 123 1 69 1084 8 0 174.7 10 WR Williams,Roy DET 16 2 2 0 82 1310 7 2 173.2 11 WR Houshmandzadeh,T.J. CIN 14 3 6 0 90 1081 9 0 162.7 12 WR Burress,Plaxico NYG 15 0 0 0 63 988 10 1 158.8 13 WR Jackson,Darrell SEA 13 0 0 0 63 956 10 0 155.6 14 WR Colston,Marques NO 14 0 0 0 70 1038 8 0 151.8 15 WR Galloway,Joey TB 16 2 9 0 62 1057 7 0 148.6 16 WR Coles,Laveranues NYJ 16 2 14 0 91 1098 6 0 147.2 17 WR Boldin,Anquan ARI 16 5 28 0 83 1203 4 0 147.1 18 WR Johnson,Andre HOU 16 3 14 0 103 1147 5 0 146.1 19 WR Furrey,Mike DET 16 0 0 0 98 1086 6 1 144.6 20 WR Glenn,Terry DAL 16 3 11 0 70 1047 6 0 141.8 21 WR Brown,Reggie PHI 16 3 24 1 46 816 8 0 140.0 22 WR Ward,Hines PIT 14 2 30 0 74 975 6 1 136.5 23 WR Cotchery,Jerricho NYJ 16 5 25 0 82 961 6 0 134.6 24 WR Fitzgerald,Larry ARI 13 1 5 0 68 941 6 0 130.6 25 WR Bruce,Isaac STL 16 0 0 0 74 1098 3 0 127.8 26 WR Edwards,Braylon CLE 16 4 12 0 60 879 6 0 125.1 27 WR Moss,Santana WAS 14 7 82 0 55 790 6 0 123.2 28 WR Clayton,Mark BAL 16 7 -30 0 67 939 5 0 120.9 29 WR Kennison,Eddie KC 16 4 16 0 53 860 5 0 117.6 30 WR Muhammad,Muhsin CHI 16 0 0 0 60 863 5 1 116.3 31 WR Henry,Chris CIN 13 0 0 0 36 605 9 0 114.5 32 WR Berrian,Bernard CHI 15 2 5 0 51 775 6 1 114.0 33 WR Booker,Marty MIA 14 3 19 0 55 747 6 0 112.6 34 WR Henderson,Devery NO 13 2 14 1 32 745 5 0 111.9 35 WR Johnson,Keyshawn CAR 16 1 4 1 70 815 4 1 110.9 36 WR Stallworth,Donte' PHI 12 0 0 0 38 725 5 0 102.5
I am not good with this tyoe of stat transfer...sorry.
:lmao: :blackdot: this goes hand in hand with people making projections that are not in line with historic AVT. it is a zero sum game where there are historic constraints on how many receiving yards there is to go around. unless people start thinking that WR2s will start getting more yardage than what has happened in the past making the pool deeper, this is a perception that is just not accurate.
Difference between #1WR and #152003 - 110 points2004 - 79 points2005- 88 points2006 - 60 pointsNothing historically different is being predicted. Last year was the wrong year to blow early picks on WR, so people are proabably reacting to that recent experience. You did fine picking WR later in 2006. Whether this year is better or worse for top tier wide receivers is a valid question. so what's with the :D
 
IMO, the change in the pass defense rules/enforcement is the reason for this. Now, the smaller guys are not as hindered as before and now you can have the S.Smith, San.Moss, L.Evans etc. sized guys compete for top 5 WRs every year. This trend of smaller gaps between #1-#15 will stay small until you start to see too few quality CBs anymore, 'cause it's gotten too difficult and too many quality WRs (if something like that will ever happen). No longer do you have to be a big WR to dominate.

 
the numbers are not telling the full picture here. There will be some great pickups in mid to later rounds if you know what you're looking at. Here are some very good value pickups for next season:

First, here are some very good receivers who had a downish year, and are poised to make a strong comeback.

Plaxico Burress - should be available 4th round. Manning and Burress had a bit of trouble making a connection last season, they're already working on this. Expect an improvement this season. 1100-1200 yds, 9-10 TDs.

Hines Ward - available round 4. Roethlisberger had a real rough off season last year, which translated to a rough season, which translated into a drop in Ward's numbers. Expect a comeback this season as Ward and Big Ben get on the same page, 1000-1100 yds, 8 TDs.

Santana Moss - available round 5 or 6 or later. Washington's offense suffered from many woes last season - from an injured Portis to an old Mark Brunell who could no longer produce. Jason Campbell has some seasoning under his belt, and a healthier more productive Portis will help take the pressure off of him. If Campbell is smart, he WILL get the ball to Santana Moss this season. Last season Moss had a few games to show how dangerous he is if he gets the ball into his hands. Unfortunately, he just didn't get the ball enough. Expect a BIG comeback this season.

Jerry Porter - available ?. This guy just screams WR1 talent, but has always been WR2 on the Raiders. Didn't even play last season, expect him to be available in the late rounds.

The up and comers, i.e. WATCH OUT!

Mark Clayton - available round 5 or later. Showed signs of brilliance his rookie year with strong showings against Denver, Minnesota, and Houston. Last season, he started at WR2 behind Derrick Mason and finished strong, winning the WR1 position in the process. Expect to see even more improvement out of this guy next year. Anybody who watched him play at Oklahoma could see this guy coming. 1000-1100+ yds, 7-9 TDs.

Bernard Berrian - big play threat for the Bears. When Grossman is itching to go deep, this is the man he looks for. Not as certain a bet as Clayton, but if Grossman can get his issues worked out, Berrian will be a big pickup in the mid to late rounds. If Grossman still has issues, Griese will get him the ball. He will most certainly outplay his draft position.

The good and solid late round pickups

Muhsin Muhammed - his stats are projected pretty low IMO. Still a solid possession receiver, Grossman or Griese will get him the ball. Still expect him to pick up 800+ yards. A good late round pickup.

Joey Galloway - the old man keeps bringing it. He should still be available in mid to late rounds.

Laveranues Coles - Pennington will get him the ball. Where he goes will probably be anybodies guess. If he falls to later rounds, he is an absolute steal.

 
I've been preparing for an upcoming draft and I sort of got the feeling that WR depth is not strong right now. I think maybe we're in the transition of a great group of older WR's (potentially) losing a step and transitioning downward in ff value (Rod Smith, Bruce, TO, Harrison, Driver, Keyshawn, Kennison etc.). The young WRs that are in good positions may be where the depth is found, or maybe hidden is the better phrase...

 
I agree witht the above post. The supposed widening of the bucket here is because of Aging top veterans falling to the pac and younger guys still not hitting their potential. Still the curve is pretty much the same year to year. I think that using WR depth as a guage in the rest of your draft is a pitfall unless you are loaded up on Mid round picks.

 
I am observing a similar thing in regards to the older veteran WRs as a whole generaly declining. I have never been one who really agreed with waiting until round 5 or later to draft your 1st WR. I know in some scoring systems this has been effective at times. You have to be confident in the WR you target in those later rounds to greatly out perform thier draft position and the ADP has to be consistent enough to be sure that player will fall that far.

Value picks of the past such as Driver and Kennison for example are not options for this. Driver is going much higher in drafts than he used to and Kennison is no longer reliable. Walker was a value pick last year but I assume he will go much higher this year.

I am not saying it cannot be done. But I am not sure which players are reliable targets for this strategy this year. And even so I prefer to pair a WR target like this with a more sure player taken earlier so I do not have to rely on that WR as much.

I also think there are better targets in the 5th round at other positions that can outperform thier ADP.

 
Personally, I love the look of the current ranked WR13-17. Evans, Driver, Colston, Housh, Burress. I would not be surprised to see any of those guys end up in the WR6-12 range at the end of the year. If I'm lucky enough to grab two of them in rounds 4 and 5, I'm pretty happy with the upside and have a solid WR core despite waiting to draft my first WR.
Agreed. I'd throw Djax in there as well.
 
Personally, I love the look of the current ranked WR13-17. Evans, Driver, Colston, Housh, Burress. I would not be surprised to see any of those guys end up in the WR6-12 range at the end of the year. If I'm lucky enough to grab two of them in rounds 4 and 5, I'm pretty happy with the upside and have a solid WR core despite waiting to draft my first WR.
Agreed. I'd throw Djax in there as well.
I think the question here is if these players will be available in round 5?For Evans, Driver, Colston I really doubt it. Housh probobly not based off last years performance that he may not match. Burress or SJax perhaps I'm not sure.Jackson would be a risky pick as your WR 1 given he has changed teams and his recent injury history. Could pay off but not a WR I would be confident in as my true #1 after sluffing off the position for 4 rounds.
 
I think the notion of depth at WR is this. There are a lot of WR2's in the NFL that can be started on a Fantasy Team. How many RB2's can you start? Most leagues start 2 RB's and 2 WR's. There are a lot more WR's available than RB's.

 
static projections have never served me any purpose other than giving me an idea where others are going to draft players when there isn't any solid ADP data.

 
IMO, people need to completely ignore RANKINGS and focus a lot more on VALUE. The top tier WR scoring is coming closer to the back in 0 PPR leagues. I could care less if WR X ranks 8th or 15th if there's only 3 points between them. Last year there were 6 points separating WR5 and WR10. The difference in owning any of those guys is relatively insignificant.

However, there could be a lot more differential in RB scoring than WR scoring. The difference between the #8 and #10 RB was 38 points. The difference between the #8 WR and the the #21 WR was 38 points. In short, there are a ton of WR in a very narrow band with. Even getting a guy that outranks his draft position by 10 spots could have very little impact on your team.

 
IMO, people need to completely ignore RANKINGS and focus a lot more on VALUE. The top tier WR scoring is coming closer to the back in 0 PPR leagues. I could care less if WR X ranks 8th or 15th if there's only 3 points between them. Last year there were 6 points separating WR5 and WR10. The difference in owning any of those guys is relatively insignificant.

However, there could be a lot more differential in RB scoring than WR scoring. The difference between the #8 and #10 RB was 38 points. The difference between the #8 WR and the the #21 WR was 38 points. In short, there are a ton of WR in a very narrow band with. Even getting a guy that outranks his draft position by 10 spots could have very little impact on your team.
This seems like a good reason to draft RB's early.
 
IMO, people need to completely ignore RANKINGS and focus a lot more on VALUE. The top tier WR scoring is coming closer to the back in 0 PPR leagues. I could care less if WR X ranks 8th or 15th if there's only 3 points between them. Last year there were 6 points separating WR5 and WR10. The difference in owning any of those guys is relatively insignificant.

However, there could be a lot more differential in RB scoring than WR scoring. The difference between the #8 and #10 RB was 38 points. The difference between the #8 WR and the the #21 WR was 38 points. In short, there are a ton of WR in a very narrow band with. Even getting a guy that outranks his draft position by 10 spots could have very little impact on your team.
This seems like a good reason to draft RB's early.
This is a good reason to draft elite scorers early . . . which ties into the theme of taking TEs and QBs early.Don't kid yourself, it's tough picking someone that will be a top scoring RB after 15-20 have already come off the board. But many times it's worth taking a shot on a RB than it is on a WR that is in a pack of other guys in the same tier.

 
I agree there's some depth to WR. Looking at those rankings, the WR1 tier is pretty broad, the difference between WR3 and 10 (185-170) is 1 FP per week, I'd put the top 10 guys all in 1 tier and hope to get one on my team. As far as my team's WR2, anyone from WR12-21 is within 1 FP/week as well (155-140). As long as you get 2 guys in the top 21 in a 12 team league, it's not going to matter much which individuals you get, they all have about the same potential. The bench WR3 tier is just as broad, it's not going to matter much who you get.

Also, the QB situation is just as broad, Dodds has QB8 scoring 260 FPs and QB18 scoring 240. In a 12-team league, if you're not getting a top-3 QB, you can easily wait until every team in your league has their 1st QB and then just draft 2 in the 12-18 rank and play them by matchup every week.

Anyway, there looks to be a lot of luck involved in finding the QB or WR who will vastly outperform his projections enough to make a difference. Which makes picking RBs this season the most important part of building a team once again.

 
I agree there's some depth to WR. Looking at those rankings, the WR1 tier is pretty broad, the difference between WR3 and 10 (185-170) is 1 FP per week, I'd put the top 10 guys all in 1 tier and hope to get one on my team. As far as my team's WR2, anyone from WR12-21 is within 1 FP/week as well (155-140). As long as you get 2 guys in the top 21 in a 12 team league, it's not going to matter much which individuals you get, they all have about the same potential. The bench WR3 tier is just as broad, it's not going to matter much who you get.Also, the QB situation is just as broad, Dodds has QB8 scoring 260 FPs and QB18 scoring 240. In a 12-team league, if you're not getting a top-3 QB, you can easily wait until every team in your league has their 1st QB and then just draft 2 in the 12-18 rank and play them by matchup every week.Anyway, there looks to be a lot of luck involved in finding the QB or WR who will vastly outperform his projections enough to make a difference. Which makes picking RBs this season the most important part of building a team once again.
QB is a dicey situation to evaluate. Clearly there is a lot that changes from preseason projections to end of year production. That's why I generally value end of year numbers far greater than preseason projections and I come to my own conclusions. You are right though, that there's not a ton seperating the QBs.
 
Right, QBs are tough to evaluate sometimes. I don't put much effort into it myself, because if you hit a home run, great, but if you don't you can still recover once the season is underway and things start to shake out for the new year. For example, last year my drafted QBs were Jake Plummer, Aaron Brooks, and Mark Brunell :unsure: . After a few weeks I just ended up dropping all 3 and picking up Steve McNair as my base QB and then picking up a second QB off waivers as needed for matchups--Losman, Leftwich, Alex Smith, Brad Johnson all made 1 week appearances. Still beat the LT owner twice to win the championship.

While there's room for "gamble" in the QB and WR slots, you pretty much have to hit on your RBs. Anyone in the top 25 WRs is capable of turning into top 12, and I'd say any of the top 18 QBs could turn in a top 6 performance.

 
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IMO, people need to completely ignore RANKINGS and focus a lot more on VALUE. The top tier WR scoring is coming closer to the back in 0 PPR leagues. I could care less if WR X ranks 8th or 15th if there's only 3 points between them. Last year there were 6 points separating WR5 and WR10. The difference in owning any of those guys is relatively insignificant.

However, there could be a lot more differential in RB scoring than WR scoring. The difference between the #8 and #10 RB was 38 points. The difference between the #8 WR and the the #21 WR was 38 points. In short, there are a ton of WR in a very narrow band with. Even getting a guy that outranks his draft position by 10 spots could have very little impact on your team.
This seems like a good reason to draft RB's early.
This is a good reason to draft elite scorers early . . . which ties into the theme of taking TEs and QBs early.Don't kid yourself, it's tough picking someone that will be a top scoring RB after 15-20 have already come off the board. But many times it's worth taking a shot on a RB than it is on a WR that is in a pack of other guys in the same tier.
So you're a guy that would load up on RBs, consider Gates in the 3rd, take a QB in round 4 or 5 and wait on wide receivers because they so closely packed statistically? Do you see this as a recent trend or has this been your strategy always?I tend to agree (except for QB), but all it will take is for some WR to get 17TDs this year to get everyone talking about dominating next year's draft by going WR/WR in the first and second round.

 
IMO, people need to completely ignore RANKINGS and focus a lot more on VALUE. The top tier WR scoring is coming closer to the back in 0 PPR leagues. I could care less if WR X ranks 8th or 15th if there's only 3 points between them. Last year there were 6 points separating WR5 and WR10. The difference in owning any of those guys is relatively insignificant.

However, there could be a lot more differential in RB scoring than WR scoring. The difference between the #8 and #10 RB was 38 points. The difference between the #8 WR and the the #21 WR was 38 points. In short, there are a ton of WR in a very narrow band with. Even getting a guy that outranks his draft position by 10 spots could have very little impact on your team.
This seems like a good reason to draft RB's early.
This is a good reason to draft elite scorers early . . . which ties into the theme of taking TEs and QBs early.Don't kid yourself, it's tough picking someone that will be a top scoring RB after 15-20 have already come off the board. But many times it's worth taking a shot on a RB than it is on a WR that is in a pack of other guys in the same tier.
So you're a guy that would load up on RBs, consider Gates in the 3rd, take a QB in round 4 or 5 and wait on wide receivers because they so closely packed statistically? Do you see this as a recent trend or has this been your strategy always?I tend to agree (except for QB), but all it will take is for some WR to get 17TDs this year to get everyone talking about dominating next year's draft by going WR/WR in the first and second round.
I don't really have a set drafting game plan mainly because I play in so many different size league with so many different starting player configurations, rules, and scoring systems. Given that that's the case, I generally look to exploit the scoring system to eke out the most points possible. Obviously things will vary when there are 10, 12, 14, or 16 teams and there could be 0, 0.5, 1, or 2 PPR depending upon position and whether it is a HTH, total points, best ball, or Survivor style league.What I would use as a general rule of thumb for the most common league formats is drafting RBs that are slated to get the ball A LOT. There are not a lot of them out there, so if there are a ton or RBs already drafted and a guy looking at 300 carries still on the board (say Edgerrin James) or a bunch of players that are projected at 200 carries in a RBBC then I'd take the 300 carry guy.

If there are guys that I project as leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else at a certain position I would consider them earlier than most other owners. So I would take Manning or Gates earlier than most guys would. I don't see anyone this year at WR that will get say 250 points in a 0 PPR league. There may not even be anyone with even 200 points.

IMO, it's generally not that difficult to come up with WRs that will be somewhat productive as the list of decent WRs is way longer than the list of RBs. I would not take a RB just to take a RB, but again I would look at guys that will play a lot. The scoring differential of WRs from WR 40 to WR 63 was less than 2 ppg last year. Even if you only get so so production from mid to late round receivers you still are not really hurting your team all that much. The same holds true if you don't get an elite scoring QB as there will be decent options available pretty late. The QBs I had on any of my teams last year were Vick, Brees, Favre, Rivers, and Kitna and all of them were later round picks.

I have generally done well plucking out guys that will do better in mid to late rounds so even if my early picks struggle or get hurt I still generally have a competitive team. But you accomplish that by taking players like Galloway, Bruce, and Glenn at WR, Winslow or Vick last year because no one really wanted them, and players like Chester Taylor, Travis Henry, and Warrick Dunn because they fell in drafts but still got a ton of carries.

 
I agree that you need to draft a player at a position that can give you a solid chance at getting the most separation from your league members at that position; whether it be WR2 or TE or whatever.

Gambling taking extra RB depth when it is unproven but has a big upside over taking a needed WR because said WR is in a pack of several still on the board is... well, gambling. I typically would play it more safely and add a solid WR; especially one slated to see significant PT on my team. This of course is impacted by league type/composition.

 
I agree there's some depth to WR. Looking at those rankings, the WR1 tier is pretty broad, the difference between WR3 and 10 (185-170) is 1 FP per week, I'd put the top 10 guys all in 1 tier and hope to get one on my team. As far as my team's WR2, anyone from WR12-21 is within 1 FP/week as well (155-140). As long as you get 2 guys in the top 21 in a 12 team league, it's not going to matter much which individuals you get, they all have about the same potential. The bench WR3 tier is just as broad, it's not going to matter much who you get.Also, the QB situation is just as broad, Dodds has QB8 scoring 260 FPs and QB18 scoring 240. In a 12-team league, if you're not getting a top-3 QB, you can easily wait until every team in your league has their 1st QB and then just draft 2 in the 12-18 rank and play them by matchup every week.Anyway, there looks to be a lot of luck involved in finding the QB or WR who will vastly outperform his projections enough to make a difference. Which makes picking RBs this season the most important part of building a team once again.
QB is a dicey situation to evaluate. Clearly there is a lot that changes from preseason projections to end of year production. That's why I generally value end of year numbers far greater than preseason projections and I come to my own conclusions. You are right though, that there's not a ton seperating the QBs.
Which all makes me want to change one of my leagues to starting 2QBs. However, there is only @ 30 pts separating QB12 from QB24. Still, I think it makes the draft more interesting.
 
It's more of a relative value question for me, dependent on where you are in your draft. Those numbers mean nothing without context. The proliferation of RBBC pushes several backs down people's draft boards, and evens them out with some WRs. The studs are easy - it's after they are all gone that the depth at the wideout position becomes apparent.
FF is all about context. Numbers in vacums mean nothing at all. The more information you have to bounce off to place things within proper context the better decision can be made. Context: and I just discovered the CODE key at the top of this dialouge applette for formatting tables. Just cut and paste the table and click on the # (CODE) icon right above and it takes care of formatting for you.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2006/06finalytdstats.php

Sort by:Fantasy Points/Passing Yards----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Rush Rush Rush Fum Fan # Pos Quarterback NFL GP Att Comp Yds TDs Int Att Yds TDs Lost Pts--- --- --------------------- --- -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----- ---- ----- 1 QB Manning,Peyton IND 16 557 362 4397 31 9 23 36 4 1 362.8 2 QB Brees,Drew NO 16 555 357 4424 26 11 42 32 0 3 317.8 3 QB Bulger,Marc STL 16 588 370 4301 24 8 18 44 0 3 307.8 4 QB Vick,Michael ATL 16 389 205 2474 20 13 123 1039 2 3 307.2 5 QB Palmer,Carson CIN 16 520 324 4036 28 13 26 35 0 7 304.8 6 QB Kitna,Jon DET 16 596 372 4208 21 22 34 156 2 9 300.3 7 QB Brady,Tom NE 16 517 320 3533 24 12 49 102 0 4 271.3 8 QB Favre,Brett GB 16 613 343 3885 18 18 24 28 1 5 257.4 9 QB Rivers,Philip SD 16 460 284 3387 22 9 47 53 0 2 254.1 10 QB Roethlisberger,Ben PIT 15 470 281 3528 18 23 32 98 2 2 247.4 11 QB Young,Vince TEN 15 356 184 2199 12 13 82 553 7 3 242.9 12 QB Manning,Eli NYG 16 522 301 3244 24 18 25 21 0 2 242.7 13 QB Losman,J.P. BUF 16 430 269 3049 19 14 38 140 1 7 234.9 14 QB Grossman,Rex CHI 16 480 262 3193 23 20 24 2 0 5 231.9 15 QB McNabb,Donovan PHI 10 316 180 2647 18 6 32 212 3 2 231.9Sort by:Fantasy Points/Rushing Yards----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rush Rush Rush Num Rec Rec Fum Fan # Pos Running Back NFL GP Att Yds TDs Rec Yds TDs Lost Pts--- --- --------------------- --- -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----- 1 RB Tomlinson,Ladainian SD 16 349 1815 28 56 508 3 1 427.4 2 RB Johnson,Larry KC 16 416 1789 17 41 410 2 2 333.9 3 RB Jackson,Steven STL 16 346 1528 13 90 806 3 2 329.4 4 RB Gore,Frank SF 16 313 1695 8 61 485 1 6 272.0 5 RB Parker,Willie PIT 16 337 1494 13 31 222 3 5 267.6 6 RB Westbrook,Brian PHI 15 240 1217 7 77 699 4 2 257.6 7 RB Barber,Tiki NYG 16 327 1662 5 58 465 0 1 242.7 8 RB Jones-Drew,Maurice JAX 16 166 941 13 46 436 2 1 227.7 9 RB Johnson,Rudi CIN 16 341 1308 12 23 124 0 2 215.2 10 RB McAllister,Deuce NO 15 244 1057 10 30 198 0 1 191.9 11 RB Betts,Ladell WAS 16 245 1154 4 53 445 1 3 189.9 12 RB Addai,Joseph IND 16 226 1081 7 40 325 1 2 188.6 13 RB Taylor,Chester MIN 15 304 1214 6 42 288 0 3 186.2 14 RB Barber,Marion DAL 16 136 654 14 23 196 2 0 181.0Sort by:Fantasy Points/Receiving Yardage----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rush Rush Rush Num Rec Rec Fum Fan # Pos Wide Receiver NFL GP Att Yds TDs Rec Yds TDs Lost Pts--- --- --------------------- --- -- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----- 1 WR Harrison,Marvin IND 16 0 0 0 95 1366 12 1 208.6 2 WR Owens,Terrell DAL 16 0 0 0 85 1180 13 0 196.0 3 WR Wayne,Reggie IND 16 0 0 0 86 1310 9 0 185.0 4 WR Johnson,Chad CIN 16 6 24 0 87 1370 7 1 181.4 5 WR Holt,Torry STL 16 0 0 0 93 1188 10 1 178.8 6 WR Driver,Donald GB 16 7 16 0 92 1295 8 0 178.4 7 WR Evans,Lee BUF 16 0 0 0 82 1290 8 1 177.1 8 WR Smith,Steve CAR 14 8 61 1 83 1166 8 0 176.7 9 WR Walker,Javon DEN 16 9 123 1 69 1084 8 0 174.7 10 WR Williams,Roy DET 16 2 2 0 82 1310 7 2 173.2 11 WR Houshmandzadeh,T.J. CIN 14 3 6 0 90 1081 9 0 162.7 12 WR Burress,Plaxico NYG 15 0 0 0 63 988 10 1 158.8 13 WR Jackson,Darrell SEA 13 0 0 0 63 956 10 0 155.6 14 WR Colston,Marques NO 14 0 0 0 70 1038 8 0 151.8 15 WR Galloway,Joey TB 16 2 9 0 62 1057 7 0 148.6The fifteenth ranked QB surpassed the top ranked WR. The fifteenth ranked RB surpassed the fifth ranked WR. Relative point advantages over your competition is where you win FF games. So is you get more relative points from a WR over you competitors you have to take it a step further and determine if the relative points lost at RB or QB or another position exceeds what you would gain by taking a stud WR over what your competitors have. Proper context is the key.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Proper context is the key.
That is the crux of Value Based drafting. However, it goes to a different level when you start putting together your mix of players using Average draft position. This is where the higher order of FF is...
 

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