lol proved wrong. With what? Once again you didn't say anything. You said the shark pool is a place for fantasy football and NFL talk. Well logic would say that since this is a Fantasy Football web site we would talk about NFL things that relate to Fantasy Football. You have no common sense. You Ramble on about god knows what. You say you don't like Eli because of the hype but you probably have never watched him play or even looked up his stats. You are a disease, a cancer if you will that spreads from one post to the next. Go away man. I'm not sure there is a person here who respects your opinion besides yourself.
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This year's draft could be best ever (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
matrix9280
Footballguy
so common sense tells me that i should go crazy over every player that's in the draft like an eli manning and if i think for a second that maybe just maybe he won't pan out i'm an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about? i get it now.i think i finally get it. agree with iceman03 you're right. disagree with iceman03 and you're an idiot. :wacko:
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That's not what I'm trying to say at all. You provide no factual information to back you up in anything that you say. Give me a reason why you don't like Manning besides his name and the hype around him. Why am I not allowed to like someone purely on specualtion. You can become a very rich person if you use speculation correctly in the stock market and it works the same way in dynasty fantasy football.
matrix9280
Footballguy
ok enlighten me.how are his stats? are they as good as peyton manning's were? would you compare eli manning to peyton manning? when i think of qbs who i would like to draft i think of the byron leftwiches and the david carrs .i've seen manning play some and he wasn't as impressive as those guys wouldn't you agree?
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Oh so your laying it on me? Haha. I don't care at this point. Would I compare him to Peyton? As far as leadership... no. He does have a great arm though and is more mobile then Peyton. Leftwich played in a lot of Shotgun formations and played in the MAC. Carr has all the intangibles but his numbers were in an extreme pass orianted offense. He would have been an afterthought the year before he was drafted. It probably isn't fair to judge Eli from his siblings but it is hard to ignore his bloodline and the success all of the Mannings have had including Cooper who got injured and was considered the most athletic Manning. Last year Eli really did not show what he had against better schools but this year with and improved running game and defense the whole game was not riding on his shoulders. He's also put up some good numbers. P.S. I like Roethlisberger better. He has a better arm, more poise and more mobility.
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Kleck
Footballguy
Eli Manning, Ole Miss253 att410 comp3341 yds61.7 %8.15 yds/att27 TDs9 INT19 Sacks147.5 RatingNot that statistics in college are a very good predictor of NFL potential. Andre Ware and David Klingler and Ryan Leaf and ...I tend to go along with NFL scouts when I haven't seen the guy play much. Are they right all the time? No, but I'm guessing they have a better idea in general than us.
matrix9280
Footballguy
are jason white and bj symons really such bad pro prospects to not be mentioned at all? i can understand symons because kliff kingsbury wasn't thought much of but is jason white considered a fluke also? i'm curious.
They're fringe.Symons lacks pro size and arm strength, and of course faces the stigma of being just another product of the system, like so many other pop-gun Qb's before him from second-rate programs with wide-open offenses. Ware, Klingler, Kingsbury, Rolovich, etc, etc. Even some of those guys were at least NFL size. Symons isn't, AND the perception is that if he were appreciably better than Kingsbury, he'd have beaten him out last year. He may get a walk on someplace, but don't expect him to stick. I haven't SEEN him try to make all the throws, but the impression I get from watching his deep ball is that he hasn't got much of one, and I think he'd struggle zipping the 15-20 yard out against fast-closing NFL Db's.White is a *little* closer to what an NFL team might look for, but is considered more of a game manager and leader than an athlete. Part of that, of course, is that the guy's blown both knees -- so that's a lot of baggage to start with when you're not a prototype to begin with. It's kind of hard to judge his out-and-out passing ability, because he plays such a SAFE game. Part of which is good: he doesn't make mistakes, doesn't take a lot of risks, manages the game well, keeps his team in position to win. Makes it hard to tell whether he has the goods to force it when he needs, though. Also, playing on a team that looks like it'd probably be in 2nd in the AFC North, he's not really having his arm OR his knees tested very often. If he were to meet and scorch LSU's D, that'd go a long way towards cementing his chances as a mid-round roll of the dice.Right now, my best guess would be Undrafted FA for Symons, Late Day 2 pick for White. For White especially, medical exams and workouts will be significant.
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matrix9280
Footballguy
i just want to discuss. i don't argue my friend.
matrix9280
Footballguy
trust me my friend. just because i disagree with you does not mean that i disrespect you.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Socialism for Dummies
Can someone tell me which Running Back(s) most resemble Deuce McAllister in size, speed and ability to catch the ball.
EastBayFunk
Footballguy
I hope everyone in my dynasty league is as high on Chris Perry as a lot of the people around here are. He's fool's gold. There are several backs from this class that are better runners. He might be a decent back in the NFL like Anthony Thomas, but he's not ever going to be a stud. That's a guarantee.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Socialism for Dummies
Thanks for that.Even though we've got one guy saying Perry is a trap.As usual it all depends on which club picks them up and when.Larry Johnson, Willis McGahee, Musa Smith - all useless this yearDeuce and Shaun Alexander were relativvely useless their rookie years.I hope the trend isn't teams that have decent RBs drafting a rookie in R1 and teams that have No RBs not drafting them until the 4th.Fantasy Hell.
EastBayFunk
Footballguy
#4 is a pretty good pick to have. There will be good RB's available at that pick and it's my personal opinion that the top WR's in this class might be a little overrated. You're better off waiting until the second round to fill in your WR ranks as I feel that a few guys who will end up being impact receivers in the NFL will be sitting there in the early-mid second round of rookie drafts..
Blitzkreig914
Footballguy
slackerI guess my love for college football has waned over the years, so I'm not as familiar with all of the top athletes this year. I guess that just means I need to do my homework before my drafts!
Foosball God
Foos
I've watched a lot of Michigan games and I don't think Perry will be anything beyond average either. I don't even think he's as good a runner as A-Train. :gang:
EastBayFunk
Footballguy
He's not big enough to be a power back in the NFL and not fast or quick enough to be a speed back. That's essentially the problem I have with him. Now almost certainly someone will say, "well, so and so wasn't that big or fast and he broke such and such records." I don't eliminate players from consideration because of measurables. If I did, I wouldn't have Anquan Boldin on my dynasty roster. I eliminate them based on what my eyes tell me and my eyes tell me that Chris Perry is not a special back.
Groundpounder
Footballguy
Uuuuhhhh ... did you just call Jim Brown a great NFL mind? You were doing great up until that point. I think you're confusing mind with ego.I don't see how you couldn't read at least one of his posts considering he has to put his "expert" opinion on every thread. Anyway I've allowed him to hijack another thread. So back on task here. I really believe Fitzgerald would be allowed into the NFL if he wants too. I think he would have to be the first reciever taken with all that he's done in college and how it compares to some other NFL recievers. Clarett would win his case but I don't think he could win in time to be drafted this year. I've come to the conclusion that he's an idiot. He was failing gym class at one point this year.I'm not sure any team would want to take the risk on him in the first round anyway. The right thing for him to do would have been to accept the suspension then come back with a vengence next year but oh well let's not listen to one of the greatest NFL minds in Jim Brown let's be a wise ### teenager who thinks he's the NFL's version of Lebron James.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
How good this draft can be will depend almost entirely on how many of the underclassmen actually declare for the draft. If they all do, it's going to be an awesome draft.Because of his toughness and pass catching ability, I think Chris Perry is one of the 5 best RBs in the draft this year. Watching him play hasn't changed my mind on that. The only RBs I like more than him are Kevin Jones, Steven Jackson, Carnell Williams, and Cedric Cobbs. Obviously it depends largely on where these guys are drafted at, but based purely on talent, I think he's got what it takes.If he runs a mid-4.5s 40 yard dash, so what? That's plenty fast enough for a guy won't try to be a speed back in the NFL. Ricky Williams was timed at 4.51 just before the NFL draft, too.He's not a pure power back and he's not a pure speed back. However, he'll give you more than enough of both to be a good NFL RB.
falconeyed
Footballguy
I've got two first rounders in my dynasty league next year, having traded Kerry Collins for Quincy Morgan and a First Round. The Collins pick will probably be in the 6-9 range (10 team league) and my natural pick will probably be anywhere from 1.01 - 1.04. With the Collins Pick, I'm actually giving serious consideration to drafting Kellen Winslow, although I have Heap as my sole TE. It could be madness, but I'm thinking that there's SO MUCH depth at WR and RB in the next draft, my 2nd round pick will be high enough to grab another solid RB or a WR (WR are grossly grossly undervalued in our league ... not sure why). When I try to talk myself out of it, I keep remembering the talk about Winslow starting over Shockey, had Shock-Fu stayed in Miami for another year.I'm hoping this is the last time I draft in the top half, at least for a few years. I still gasp when I think of the team as it was when I inherited it.Point: The depth overall next season is obscene. Just obscene. It's almost impossible to come away with a suspect dynasty pick in the first round next season.
the key is not getting thrown off because your talent evaluation is a little different than the NFL teams. a WR/RB/QB that you see as the 3rd or 4th best in the draft could fall to round 3 because of the depth this year. trust your gut. ask people who passed on boldin or portis despite liking them because a player that went higher in the draft was on the board. next year i think there are easily 10 players with stud potential and maybe 15, and many very good players will be relegated to day 2 of the draft because of the depth. i would guess that boldin would go in the 5th round in next years crop of WR, yet he would have been just as good. trust yourself.
johnny bravo
Footballguy
he's a shaun alexander clone but an inch taller. Alexander was timed at 4.58. The main thing i see with perry is his ability and willingness to block. he's a monster when it comes to that part of the game. he also has very soft hands. If he can somehow get to Dallas Bill Parcells will ride him to a subpar bowl.
azcards33
Footballguy
no mention here of Bernard Berrian from Fresno State?
I'm not sure how Berrian is doing this year, but I know last season he was projected as a Day 1 Draft pick before he got hurt and ended up receiving a medical redshirt and a 5th year of eligibilty.
Berrian is definately an NFL caliber WR and should be among those on your list as well!
Player Profile
Bernard Berrian
School: Fresno State
Position: Wide Receiver
Number: 2
Class: Senior
Height: 6-2
Weight: 190lbs
40 Time: 4.53 (estimated)
2002 Stats: 1 game, 2 catches, 54 receiving yards, 1 receiving touchdown /// 1 punt return, 1.0-yard punt return average, 0 punt return touchdowns
Positives
- Possesses solid wide receiver height and speed. Has been a super-productive college player. Can return kickoffs and punts and does an excellent job in both areas.
Negatives
- Needs to improve his route running. Somewhat of a straight-liner that lacks “shake and bake.” Has compiled most of his college numbers against WAC competition. Missed almost the entire 2002 season with a knee injury.
Overall Analysis
- Bernard Berrian started receiving recognition during the 2000 college football season, and was named a second team All-WAC performer at the end of that year. As a junior Berrian had a breakthrough season, hauling in 13 touchdown catches and totaling 1364 receiving yards. He was also a threat as a return man, returning both a kickoff and a punt for a touchdown. He returned to school for the 2002 season, but suffered a knee sprain early in the year that resulted in him taking a medical redshirt. As a receiver Berrian does a great job of using his height and has proven to be fast and physical enough to consistently gain separation from defenders. Berrian lacks the super quickness and agility that many top return men have, but he has a natural feel for finding the seams and is fearless in aggressively taking the ball upfield. Berrian may not be perfect in terms of natural ability, and there are areas of his game that he needs to work on. However, Berrian looks like a player that can make an impact at the next level on offense and on special teams. If Berrian can rebound in 2003 and prove that he is fully healthy, he will have a chance to play his way into the latter half of the first round in the 2004 NFL draft.
I'm not sure how Berrian is doing this year, but I know last season he was projected as a Day 1 Draft pick before he got hurt and ended up receiving a medical redshirt and a 5th year of eligibilty.
Berrian is definately an NFL caliber WR and should be among those on your list as well!
Player Profile
Bernard Berrian
School: Fresno State
Position: Wide Receiver
Number: 2
Class: Senior
Height: 6-2
Weight: 190lbs
40 Time: 4.53 (estimated)
2002 Stats: 1 game, 2 catches, 54 receiving yards, 1 receiving touchdown /// 1 punt return, 1.0-yard punt return average, 0 punt return touchdowns
Positives
- Possesses solid wide receiver height and speed. Has been a super-productive college player. Can return kickoffs and punts and does an excellent job in both areas.
Negatives
- Needs to improve his route running. Somewhat of a straight-liner that lacks “shake and bake.” Has compiled most of his college numbers against WAC competition. Missed almost the entire 2002 season with a knee injury.
Overall Analysis
- Bernard Berrian started receiving recognition during the 2000 college football season, and was named a second team All-WAC performer at the end of that year. As a junior Berrian had a breakthrough season, hauling in 13 touchdown catches and totaling 1364 receiving yards. He was also a threat as a return man, returning both a kickoff and a punt for a touchdown. He returned to school for the 2002 season, but suffered a knee sprain early in the year that resulted in him taking a medical redshirt. As a receiver Berrian does a great job of using his height and has proven to be fast and physical enough to consistently gain separation from defenders. Berrian lacks the super quickness and agility that many top return men have, but he has a natural feel for finding the seams and is fearless in aggressively taking the ball upfield. Berrian may not be perfect in terms of natural ability, and there are areas of his game that he needs to work on. However, Berrian looks like a player that can make an impact at the next level on offense and on special teams. If Berrian can rebound in 2003 and prove that he is fully healthy, he will have a chance to play his way into the latter half of the first round in the 2004 NFL draft.
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Hunterbeer
Footballguy
Johnny U.,Why are so sure that a judge would side with Clarrett? There are age restrictions on many other jobs, not the least of which is COngress, that are deemed acceptable. There are certain jobs you are not allowed to ahve unless one has "x" years of experience at a lower level job, one that they cannot get unitl 18. That forms a de facto age restriction on the job. How is the NFL's rule different? I'm sure Maurice could use the fine education (insert all sarcasm) he's gotten at the Ohio State University to find work at Wendy's>
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I'm not sure he would, but the media sure thinks he would win. I don't think a judge would side with the NFL for the reasons I mentioned earlier. The NFL has also made exceptions in the past, and rather than going to court, the NFL would do the same with Clarett. They would make an exception for him.
guderian
Footballguy
Great discussion. Two issues:1. Is that you can count on a couple of teams going screwball in the draft (Morris to Seattle and Deuce to NO for example). The Saints needed major help on the defensive side of the ball as well as a Tight End (they passed on Heap) and they draft an RB in the first round to back-up a 23 year old stud? For that reason I typically look to trade my picks while the draft hype is in full swing and before the reality of where players are actually going sets in. However, this year I will probably wait until the last minute because the last couple of drafts have been so weak I don't think I will get proper value for the picks just yet. In fact, I am very high on this year's draft class and I may in fact break my own rule about trading my rookie picks. 2. I remember reading at the start of the season that 25% of the NFL's starting RBs were 28 years old or older. Obviously by the time we get to next season those RBs are going to be 29+. Some (Emmitt Smith) for instance will probably be replaced by teammates (Shipp) and one or two by free agents, but IMO there is a lot of pent up demand for stud RBs. If you look at history, typically there are only a couple RBs that are both stud caliber that end up in situations where they can produce immediately. As a result, I still think that you will want one of the top 2, maybe 3, picks this year. I think there will be a drop off after that point to the stud WRs and QBs (Roy Williams and Manning) and a very gradual decline in value to picks 10 to 14.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
Working at Wendy's would require specialized knowledge of how to make those square burgers. Maurice ought to stick to the round burger places until he gains some serious experience.
EastBayFunk
Footballguy
I thought that Troupe would be my little secret early this year, but it quickly became obvious that his stock would soar way too much for him to be a sleeper pick for me. He's a likely first or second rounder now.As for Berrian, he was considered a solid first round prospect a couple years ago, but things have changed. He suffered a season ending injury last year and apparently he's not been playing as well as he had back in 2001. He's still a guy to consider due to his speed and explosiveness, but I'm going to need to see his 40 times and hear how he does at the Senior Bowl before I start to really consider him.
I NEED MORE!!!! 
IMO, Perry looked pretty darn good vs OSU. He has some great open field moves and good power. I am surprised how alot of Michigan fans seem to be down on him. Wish I saw more games of Perry :( Hate to open this back up, but this draft is going to have to work hard to beat 99, when the top 16 players drafted included: Couch, McNabb, Edge, RW, Holt, Champ Bailey, Boston, Chris McAlister, Culpep, McFarlen, and Kearst. There were some spectacular busts that year too, but soo much talent at so many positions.
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8623
Guest
Gotta love going back over old matrix posts.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I can name 10 qb's in this draft better than Couch, but here are just a few (Manning, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Losman, and Henson if he enters the draft again). I can see Manning and Roethlisberger being just as good as McNabb and Culpepper. Throw in Rivers and maybe Henson, I would say this draft is deeper at QB than 1999. The IDP don't mean anything for most leagues. I can easily see this draft being deeper at RB and WR. While RW and Edge are proven studs, this draft is deeper at RB than 1999. The WR depth is unbelievable with Fitz, the 2 Williams', Woods, Evans, Clayton.
BoneYardDog
Footballguy
I thought Cadillac decided to go back to school and WILL NOT be in this draft...
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8623
Guest
Dude, how was I supposed to know that in NOVEMBER?I thought Cadillac decided to go back to school and WILL NOT be in this draft...
falconeyed
Footballguy
This is kind of interesting ... to see what we were saying back in November and comparing it to now.First ... you SHOULD have known that Cadillac would stay in school.Dude, how was I supposed to know that in NOVEMBER?I thought Cadillac decided to go back to school and WILL NOT be in this draft...
Second ... it generally looks like the hype has just gone up over the past couple of months. Now that we KNOW which underclassmen are coming out, it should make it all the more interesting. I'm still thinking of going with Winslow with my second first round pick, banking on the fact that the WR / RB class is so strong that plenty will be left in the second / third rounds of a dynasty draft.
