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Thoughts on how you see Marrinelli using KJ (1 Viewer)

UFO

Footballguy
First of all as a KJ owner I am thanking my lucky stars Haslett was not hired. Even this year I saw a ton of talent in KJ. Is this his big break?I know alot depends on his OC but the guys seems like he wants to move to power running game.

 
:confused:Until you see who Marinelli hires as his offensive coordinator [and RB position coach], there is no Earthly reason for you to be happy or unhappy about his hiring versus Haslett. Both are defensive coaches who will rely heavily [if not completely] on their OCs to craft the offense.

 
I think he probably could have played many of the times he was out but was probably so frstrated getting 10 carries after leading the entire NFL in rushing the 2nd half of 2004 (and I don't want to hear how easy his schedule was, this was over 8 games he led the NFL)

 
I for one am pumped. KJ has nowhere to go but up, and new coaches in Detroit are expected to do 1 thing: Use your young talent a heck of a lot better than the X-coaching staff did. KJ must get 16-20carries a game on a consistant basis to get any kind of chance to shine. As to the injury prone bit, I for one think that backs who carry less actually are more prone to injury. They play cold, are out of their groove, and tend to be more tentative when used sparingly, all of which contribute to injury.

 
defensive guys tend to understand the value of time of posession but that's so general and it's so early....I agree with what Jason said. Most of all though they need an OL coach that will get them moving. Seems real key to that team maybe a little bit more than most. Young backs, QBs that panic, maybe QB needs more time to hit the young WRs etc. We discuss Harrington, Jones, and the WRs here a ton but IMO that franchise could really use a solid OL.

 
Far more important than who's coaching is the offensive line. I don't care if Marinelli installs the Wing T, Jones isn't going to do well with Kelly Butler at right tackle.

 
At his presser today he keyed on both lines: he wants to rush the passer and he wants to pound the rock (I'm paraphrasing what he said).
And Dennis Green wanted to run the ball more. And Edwards wanted to get LaMont 30% of the touches two years ago. And Tice wanted to have one running back and stick with him. Talk is cheap-some coaches walk the walk and others just talk the talk. It's too soon to find out which one he is.

Most important question-isn't Millen still going to be finding players to field? He doesn't have a great track record...

 
Jones hasn't shown anything thus far to prove he's anything more than mediocre.
I guess you missed the end of the 2004 season.
I guess you failed to notice the cupcake defenses he was against.
This is more along the lines of what I was thinking. K Jones hasn't shown a thing to me.
Oh, he's shown plenty. It's just very little has been positive. At this point in his career I am no longer giving him the benefit of doubt. Might he be studly if he were behind a better o-line? Of course. But elite backs can succeed somewhat even with porous lines. Mooch may be gone but Millen is still making personnel decisions-so how is their offensive line going to suddenly improve when he's failed to make any improvements thus far?

 
I hear that although they do not have an OC, Jones is already listed as questionable for game one next year. GL

 
Referencing his "cup cake" schedule is ridiculous!!!!!!!. He LED the NFL in RUSHING the last 8 games of the year on a team with NO PASSING game.I am sure if we looked at every RB we could find 8 easy games of the course of a season, or look at how many times the Defense gave a RB decent field position.We are not talking 3 games here folks. I will say it again he LED the NFL in rushing for half a season!

 
Marinelli will put a lot of emphasis on the Defense, but his strengths are as a motivator and disciplinarian. Detroit will love him. Still sad to see him leave the Bucs......He coined the team motto in 2002 "Pound the Rock." I believe he'll be a believer in running tough and playing solid D. KJ should be able to run hard for him, if he can stay healthy. Marinelli article.......

Tampa Bay assistant head coach/defensive line coach Rod Marinelli was introduced as the Detroit Lions’ new head coach on Thursday. Marinelli, 56, worked as Tampa Bay’s defensive line coach for 10 years. Although Monte Kiffin is considered the architect of Tampa Bay’s defense, which has ranked in the top 10 for nine straight seasons, Marinelli was and still is regarded as one of the most brilliant teachers and defensive minds in the NFL. “I’ve been with Rod Marinelli since 1996 and I think this is a great choice by [Lions general manager] Matt Millen,” Kiffin said. “You don’t have to be a defensive coordinator to be a good head coach. [Kansas City head coach] Herm Edwards was in the same situation here when he went to the New York Jets and you can see where he has had an extremely successful career as a head coach. “There is no doubt Rod will do an awesome job. He is a motivator and the players will play hard for him. He is a disciplinarian in the right way. When the players walk off the field, they will be better football players and he will help extend their careers. In the same sense, they will gravitate towards Rod because of the way he interacts with his players.” Marinelli is the second assistant coach the Bucs have lost to another team this offseason. Last week, former Bucs defensive backs coach Mike Tomlin was named the Minnesota Vikings’ new defensive coordinator. Last month, Tampa Bay lost assistant defensive backs coach Raheem Morris to the Kansas State Wildcasts, who hired him as their new defensive coordinator. Not only will Tampa Bay’s coaching staff miss Marinelli, the Bucs defensive players, particularly the defensive linemen, have a deep respect for their former defensive line coach, whom they give a tremendous amount of credit to for helping them thrive in Tampa Bay’s proven defensive scheme. “One of the hardest tasks in the game of football is leading men,” said Bucs three-time Pro Bowl defensive end Simeon Rice, who notched 67.5 sacks in five seasons with the Bucs. “When you are talking about a coach like Rod Marinelli, who not only knows how to lead men, but he is a great example of how to live your life. He knows how to look at life through perspective and to live life with great focus. It shows you a little bit about one of the true great minds of our time. “What he has done for me and my life, what he has brought to me and my life, words can’t describe it. I’m extremely happy for him, but I’m extremely sad for me. He’ll do great at what he does, because what he does is mold men into becoming whatever they seek to become in their careers. And what he has done for me, in terms of enlightenment and just philosophies, are the things that I eat, drink and sleep by. By me meeting this man, and him being a part of my life for the short time he was, he’s been able to change my perspectives and my ideas about life. The Lions are getting much more than a coach; they are getting much more than a man. They say legends aren’t born everyday, but the Detroit Lions are getting one, and I salute them.” Marinelli is considered an exceptional motivator. He coined the phrase, “Pound The Rock,” which was something that was reiterated throughout Tampa Bay’s Super Bowl championship season in 2002. In 2005, Marinelli helped Tampa Bay’s defense return to its dominant form. In fact, the Bucs defense finished the season ranked No. 1 overall. One of the reasons why the Bucs defense played much better in ’05, particularly against the run, was because of the players’ willingness to buy into Marinelli’s philosophy of sporting pads throughout each week of practice. "I think he used the terms that he'd rather have you low and tired than high and fresh, because low and tired is going to win you that game in the fourth quarter,” Bucs Pro Bowl linebacker Derrick Brooks said of Marinelli. “It's going to give you that advantage. I think from a mental standpoint of guys who understand, and us particularly understanding that was just part of who we were. We weren't trying to be anything else or trying to be cute about it. This is what we were. We were blue collared workers who put on our pads and went to work. I think what we understood was that's who we were. We actually enjoyed getting to each other a little bit." Tampa Bay’s defense has arguably been on of the league’s best since 1997. The Bucs have ranked in the top 5 in total defense in seven of the past nine seasons. But Tampa Bay has paid a price for that success. The Bucs’ defensive coaching tree has worked its way through the NFL. Marinelli (Detroit), Tony Dungy (Indianapolis), Herm Edwards (Kansas City) and Lovie Smith (Chicago) are currently head coaches. That’s quite a feat for coaches that helped turn one of the worst teams in sports history into a championship-caliber team. "It’s kind of funny. In 1996, no one thought the Bucs had anything in this building or a chance to be successful,” Brooks said. “Again, that's one of the advantages that Rod had that he came to a franchise that at that time was the laughing stock of the league. He saw how we built, and how we kept doing the same things over and over. We became what we repeatedly did. Now we're one of the more talked about and more successful franchises these past two years. Again, not everybody can say that because everybody wasn't here in 1996 and saw how we went through this process. I think that's one of the advantages that he has on his resume that he's bringing to Detroit." The Bucs are in the process of conducting interviews in search of replacements for Marinelli and Tomlin. There is no word yet on possible candidates to fill those positions.
 
Referencing his "cup cake" schedule is ridiculous!!!!!!!. He LED the NFL in RUSHING the last 8 games of the year on a team with NO PASSING game.

I am sure if we looked at every RB we could find 8 easy games of the course of a season, or look at how many times the Defense  gave a RB decent field position.

We are not talking 3 games here folks. I will say it again he LED the NFL in rushing for half a season!
The avg def ranking vs the rush over that stretch was 26th. He played all the worst teams against the run (some twice). The schedule worked out perfect for him and he exploited it. The problem was that ordinarily those games are sprinkled throughout the year not all lined up perfectly. Many FF'ers failed to recognize this and extrapolated a full year of stats based on his 1/2 year results which was a mistake. If he was sooo good Mooch wouldn't have wasted his time with Bryson/Pinner last year. People are just holding on to those 2nd half #'s hoping they will appear again.

I always like how people use the 8 game cutoff. If you go back to the 3 games prior to that when he actually faced decent run defenses his #'s were

NYG 13-65

Dal 11-36

Wash 12-20

 
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So where is the smart place to take KJ this year in a 12 team league? Last year he seemed to be a late 1st round/early second round pick. Does he fall into the 3rd or 4th round this year?

 
KJ would be a steal in 3rd or 4th. Marinelli will commit to the run. I would expect him to bring in an OC that will use KJ effectively. Solid 2nd round RB, possible late 1st.

 
KJ would be a steal in 3rd or 4th.

Marinelli will commit to the run. I would expect him to bring in an OC that will use KJ effectively. Solid 2nd round RB, possible late 1st.
You must not have been a KJ owner if you want to take him in the 1st or 2nd round. I wouldn't even take him in the 4th round and no way he's a good second running back with all the question marks. We don't even know who the OC will be, so how can any of us know what impact this will have on him.
 
I would be lying if I didn't say these threads frustrate me. Until we know who Marinelli's OC is, discussing this serves absolutely no purpose.

 
I would be lying if I didn't say these threads frustrate me. Until we know who Marinelli's OC is, discussing this serves absolutely no purpose.
give us a candidates name that would bump KJ up your board?i, for one, don't care who the OC is...KJ just doesn't have the internal drive to be an NFL stud RB over the course of an entire season

 
I would be lying if I didn't say these threads frustrate me. Until we know who Marinelli's OC is, discussing this serves absolutely no purpose.
give us a candidates name that would bump KJ up your board?i, for one, don't care who the OC is...KJ just doesn't have the internal drive to be an NFL stud RB over the course of an entire season
KJ may in fact not have the internal drive, how could any of us really know? I will say that given his natural talent and productivity in the back half of 2004, I'm certainly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until we see him with new coaches, but until then, it's a legitimate concern.In all likelihood, those who wonder about KJ's "fire" or "intensity" will likely be forced to pass on him in 2006, because at least one or two owners in every competitive league will be willing to make a bet the other way and will draft KJ in the 3rd round at the latest believing they've locked up a stud.

 
It dosent matter he can't stay healthy. Two years and hes missed just about a half the games.He's a weaker fragil Fred. I was really routing for him this year too.

 
I would be lying if I didn't say these threads frustrate me. Until we know who Marinelli's OC is, discussing this serves absolutely no purpose.
I disagree. You're implying that Marinelli will hire an OC and let the OC go off and blissfully do whatever he wants with no strings attached, no Marinelli over-seeing things. Marinelli's belief system (pounding the ball, being aggressive in the vertical game) will shape what the new OC does.
 
I would be lying if I didn't say these threads frustrate me. Until we know who Marinelli's OC is, discussing this serves absolutely no purpose.
I disagree. You're implying that Marinelli will hire an OC and let the OC go off and blissfully do whatever he wants with no strings attached, no Marinelli over-seeing things. Marinelli's belief system (pounding the ball, being aggressive in the vertical game) will shape what the new OC does.
I've not seen Marinelli give any indication about what his offensive beliefs are, have you? And he's seen quite a variety of offensive systems in his time in Tampa, mind you. And in terms of "no strings attached", that depends on your definition. Marinelli is OF COURSE going to hire someone that has a similar general sense of how the game should be played, but his OC will absolutely call the plays and script the offense, so whether you want to debate whether his OC hire = 90% of the puzzle or 75%, it's still far easier and more reasonable to project what KJ MIGHT do next year after we know the coaching staff.

 
At his presser today he keyed on both lines: he wants to rush the passer and he wants to pound the rock (I'm paraphrasing what he said).
And Dennis Green wanted to run the ball more. And Edwards wanted to get LaMont 30% of the touches two years ago. And Tice wanted to have one running back and stick with him. Talk is cheap-some coaches walk the walk and others just talk the talk. It's too soon to find out which one he is.

Most important question-isn't Millen still going to be finding players to field? He doesn't have a great track record...
By saying Millen doesn't have a good track record, you're saying that you have written off most, if not all, the draft picks he's made. While I'm almost ready to can Charles Rogers, there is a boatload of his picks I'm not ready to throw on the scrap heap just yet: Lehman (on IR most of this year), Lewis (IR), Roy Williams (think he'll go to that next level), Mike Williams (rookie last year out of football for nearly two years), KJ (improperly used, nagging injuries), Boss Bailey, Dirty Davis (showed great promise in 2004...flattened out a bit this year...will better coaching get him to his true potential?), etc etc. And that's not to mention guys like Shaun Rogers, Redding, Butler, and (this year) Shaun Cody (who should elevate his game in year 2 under Marinelli).

2005 was ugly for the Lions, no question. But I also attribute some of the poor play, poor attitude, and lack of staying on the field to dismal loser environment that super-softMooch created. There's a bunch of these young guys I'm just not ready to throw away quite yet. This upcoming year is pivotal.

 
KJ has never played a full year going back to college without getting hurt. I think he and DeShaun Foster are both made of glass and if you draft either your risk far outweighs any return.

 
I would be lying if I didn't say these threads frustrate me. Until we know who Marinelli's OC is, discussing this serves absolutely no purpose.
I disagree. You're implying that Marinelli will hire an OC and let the OC go off and blissfully do whatever he wants with no strings attached, no Marinelli over-seeing things. Marinelli's belief system (pounding the ball, being aggressive in the vertical game) will shape what the new OC does.
I've not seen Marinelli give any indication about what his offensive beliefs are, have you? And he's seen quite a variety of offensive systems in his time in Tampa, mind you. And in terms of "no strings attached", that depends on your definition. Marinelli is OF COURSE going to hire someone that has a similar general sense of how the game should be played, but his OC will absolutely call the plays and script the offense, so whether you want to debate whether his OC hire = 90% of the puzzle or 75%, it's still far easier and more reasonable to project what KJ MIGHT do next year after we know the coaching staff.
he was very clear in his presser: he wants the lions to rush the passer on defense and pound the ball on offense and take the downfield shots to keep it honest. the latter is a rather general statement that could take on various forms in implementation, but it is pretty clear. the det media, based on their questioning of marinelli and his comments, are speculating the lions offensvie approach will be similar to that of the steelers.

 
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I would be lying if I didn't say these threads frustrate me. Until we know who Marinelli's OC is, discussing this serves absolutely no purpose.
I disagree. You're implying that Marinelli will hire an OC and let the OC go off and blissfully do whatever he wants with no strings attached, no Marinelli over-seeing things. Marinelli's belief system (pounding the ball, being aggressive in the vertical game) will shape what the new OC does.
I've not seen Marinelli give any indication about what his offensive beliefs are, have you? And he's seen quite a variety of offensive systems in his time in Tampa, mind you. And in terms of "no strings attached", that depends on your definition. Marinelli is OF COURSE going to hire someone that has a similar general sense of how the game should be played, but his OC will absolutely call the plays and script the offense, so whether you want to debate whether his OC hire = 90% of the puzzle or 75%, it's still far easier and more reasonable to project what KJ MIGHT do next year after we know the coaching staff.
he was very clear in his presser: he wants the lions to rush the passer on defense and pound the ball on offense and take the downfield shots to keep it honest. the latter is a rather general statement that could take on various forms in implementation, but it is pretty clear. the det media, based on their questioning of marinelli and his comments, are speculating the lions offensvie approach will be similar to that of the steelers.
Interesting comparison to the Steelers, because John Clayton blogged today about how Mike Mularkey is a hot commodity right now and could land in any number of spots as offensive coordinator.
 
Coach speak - End of Season until training camp.We will run the ball more and be more aggressive on defense.

 

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