Thoughts on new type of dynasty league (1 Viewer)

[JAA]

This dynasty format is that you can only ever draft rookies. Meaning, the 1st year of the dynasty, everyone drafts a team of rookies. Waiver Wire each season only consists of of rookie players. The season is played, you get to keep all of those rookies, but next season, you can only draft rookies again.

Waivers work the same way. You can only add players who are of their rookie season. If you drop a non-rookie, that player is lost from the player pool forever.

Do these sorts of dynasty leagues exist? How would they work? Would it be possible? I think it makes the most sense for these sorts of leagues to be IDP. My fear would be that the first couple of seasons, there is the possibility of teams not scoring many if any points. Including IDP would give people the option of drafting/waivering garunteed point options.

It seems this sort of league would test an owners ability to rate current and future talent. You would be rewarded for keeping players would would eventually contribute.

 

[I Am Rick James]

Don't know if they exist, but if they did, count me in because that sounds totally hardcore.

 

[pinequick]

Never heard of such a league, but I gotta think that that would be a pretty boring first couple of years.

"Who's your staring QB?"

"Josh Johnson."

"Oh, okay. So who's your starting WRs?"

"Jordy Nelson and Earl Bennett."

"Wow."

 

[shader]

Interesting. To start, you'd have to retro it about 3 years or something. Start with players in their 3rd year or less and add only rookies from then on out.

Of course if you had some schmuck in your league get mad and drop some good players, and they are lost for good...that would kind of suck

 

[cws3030]

i like the idea as well... as mentioned above i think for year one you'd have to draft players in year 2 or 3. the waiver thing you need to be addressed some how. i'd hate to see someone get dropped cause he sucked as a rookie and then 3-4 years down the road become a viable fantasy player.

 

[coolnerd]

Interesting concept as I see the goal as testing your talent evaluation skills, but some drafts have so few legitimate long-term players that your league will be starting awful line-ups in too many cases to make the league competitive long-term. Also, especially when you get to late round and UDFA, there is a curve of often 3 or 4 years before a player is rosterable. If I understand what you are proposing correctly, a guy like Wes Welker or Tony Romo would never be eligible to be in your league, because as rookies there was zero reason to roster them and even if you did the chance of an owner waiting them outis very slim.

 

[Moniker]

Don't know if they exist, but if they did, count me in because that sounds totally hardcore.

/agree.I'd love to play in such a league.No going back 2-3 years for the draft, just starting now, as if the only people playing (or not, more likely) were all the rooks. It'd be tough to keep owners, though, as a few bad picks (waiver or draft) would absolutely kill you.

 

[Grond]

This is very similar to one of my leagues that's entering it's 14th season this year.

* Only rookies can be drafted. 6-7 years ago we rigidly defined what "rookie" meant: any player that had not been previously rostered by a pro football team of any type (CFL, Arena, Arena 2, XFL, etc.). This became an issue because of Chad Hutchinson originally playing baseball, then going to football.

* No in-season waivers. Once the draft is done for the year, that's what you've got.

* 20-player roster. For each draft pick you make, you must drop a player to conform to the roster limit.

* Players dropped during the draft are available in that draft pool. After the draft ends, any players not rostered are undraftable going forward.

* Trades can only occur from the end of the Superbowl through the end of the rookie league draft.

* Starting team is any seven players, not the traditional positional limitations. This has made kickers much more valuable than normal - longevity of the position and very little rise & fall of the player's career points-wise.

It's the most interesting league I'm in - strategic planning is a requirement to succeed. I probably spend 3x the planning time on that league than any other league I'm in. It also has makes me feel more invested in certain players ; I've had P. Manning, Harrison, and Hines Ward since I drafted them.

League history, results & info @ http://www.mnrfl.com

Apologies in advance for the site ugliness, I'm redoing large chunks of it right now.

 

[JAA]

Grond - awesome insight, thanks

I think one point would be that rosters would need to be very deep. Maybe 40 player rosters including IDP.

The idea that players not drafted their rookie season would not be eligible the next season is something that I think should be addressed by the roster size, not rules regading whether or not they were ever rostered. I think the draft would need to occur about the time preseason ends and the final roster/practice squads were finalized. This would allow some concept of figuring out who was were.

Any rookie dropped in his rookie season, could be picked up in his rookie season. Something interesting like waivers are stopped at the end of the regular season, but a 2nd draft at the end of the season for all available current rookies. Maybe expand roster sizes in the offseason to accomodate this. The goal of this 2nd draft would give every team the option to bring in players that may have been missed.

The goal being that owners are rewarded for evaluating players based on ability, not playing time.

more thoughts please

 

[JAA]

This is very similar to one of my leagues that's entering it's 14th season this year.

* Only rookies can be drafted. 6-7 years ago we rigidly defined what "rookie" meant: any player that had not been previously rostered by a pro football team of any type (CFL, Arena, Arena 2, XFL, etc.). This became an issue because of Chad Hutchinson originally playing baseball, then going to football.

* No in-season waivers. Once the draft is done for the year, that's what you've got.

* 20-player roster. For each draft pick you make, you must drop a player to conform to the roster limit.

* Players dropped during the draft are available in that draft pool. After the draft ends, any players not rostered are undraftable going forward.

* Trades can only occur from the end of the Superbowl through the end of the rookie league draft.

* Starting team is any seven players, not the traditional positional limitations. This has made kickers much more valuable than normal - longevity of the position and very little rise & fall of the player's career points-wise.

It's the most interesting league I'm in - strategic planning is a requirement to succeed. I probably spend 3x the planning time on that league than any other league I'm in. It also has makes me feel more invested in certain players ; I've had P. Manning, Harrison, and Hines Ward since I drafted them.

League history, results & info @ http://www.mnrfl.com

Apologies in advance for the site ugliness, I'm redoing large chunks of it right now.

awesome: http://www.mnrfl.com/stats.asp

 

[JAA]

Obviously, this is my placeholder for thinking through starting this league.

I want to do 12 teams with a buy-in small enough to make it easy to join, but not free so that people are willing to ditch teams. If I do a $80 MFL site at $30 per team, 12 teams ... after league fees it leaves a kitty of $280. Seems like enough money to split 1st, 2nd, 3rd and high points. Maybe 1st and 2nd high points. THough winning needs to be at min to cover league fees.

 

[JAA]

Post in here if you would consider joining a dynasty league like this for $30. Im simply trying to gauge interest. I would want 12 teams, no 10 or 14. Weird, but 12 always seems optimal.

 

[Ksquared]

Interesting ideas.

Just a thought about how to keep the FA stars to stay in the player pool. Has anyone considered a max roster size the first year, and then have no max roster after that. IOW, with IDP probably most teams in their 5th year would have around 50 players if the first year started with 25 on the roster and add 7-8 thru rookie draft each year. Player attrition (injury, out of NFL, etc) would keep teams probably around 50 players without having to make a rule about it. It would allow the Romos and Welkers of the NFL to stay in the player pool because there would be no reason to drop them until they are out of the league. Could put some type of a rule where a player not on an NFL roster for two straight seasons is automatically dropped from the teams.

Probably need to make a rule restricting trades to equal number of slots (no 2 for 1 player or pick trades) so a team does not get an unfair increase in roster slots.

 

[Grond]

Interesting ideas.

Just a thought about how to keep the FA stars to stay in the player pool. Has anyone considered a max roster size the first year, and then have no max roster after that. IOW, with IDP probably most teams in their 5th year would have around 50 players if the first year started with 25 on the roster and add 7-8 thru rookie draft each year. Player attrition (injury, out of NFL, etc) would keep teams probably around 50 players without having to make a rule about it. It would allow the Romos and Welkers of the NFL to stay in the player pool because there would be no reason to drop them until they are out of the league. Could put some type of a rule where a player not on an NFL roster for two straight seasons is automatically dropped from the teams.

Probably need to make a rule restricting trades to equal number of slots (no 2 for 1 player or pick trades) so a team does not get an unfair increase in roster slots.

A few years ago we pushed around something similar with large rosters or no max roster size and nixed it before implementing it. My thoughts were that it would really hurt team parity in the league and it would take a lot of the long-term strategic aspects out of it. It'd be too easy to stash a backup like Michael Turner or Maurice Morris for years, on the off chance he would take over due to injury. Having smaller roster limits requires teams deep, quality rosters to plan for the future and the now, since drops (with the MNRFL format) may potentially help teams with weaker rosters.The first three years we had a tough time filling rosters with starting-capable players, which is one reason why we ended up doing a "play all" format - highest weekly score wins the week.

One of the big strategic pieces I appreciate with our format is having to predict the quality of the NFL team the player will be on, for their position. Trying to decide when to cut a player like Reggie Williams, Michael Turner, Troy Williamson, Aaron Rodgers, etc. can be tough. It makes roster spots themselves much more valuable than just a placeholder.

I've also really focused research on when a player comes into his playing prime. As in, is rostering Rodgers for 3 years (and holding that roster spot with him) worth the long-term result rather than drafting a Selvin Young or Colston type player each of those three years in the hope that one hits during their rookie year.

 

[Grond]

Post in here if you would consider joining a dynasty league like this for $30. Im simply trying to gauge interest. I would want 12 teams, no 10 or 14. Weird, but 12 always seems optimal.

Count me in, if there's room. I really like long-term strategic formats like this.

 

[GregR_2]

It seems to me what this format adds is a heavy reliance on future predictive abilities. But it would also do so at the cost of some forms of strategy (because options become much more limited), and the need for effective balancing the multiple ways to build a team since there are fewer ways to do it.

The finality of what happens when a player is dropped would definitely make for tougher decisions than in a normal league. But the strategic side would seem to be lessened, especially over something like a contract dynasty league where not only does the player's value change based on his play on the field, but his value also changes because of his retainability.

It's an interesting thought, and one that I'm sure would appeal to some people. It wouldn't appeal to me personally though. I want to see my leagues add more of the type of strategic thinking I mentioned where you have to value players beyond just their fantasy points, and this would seem to be taking that away more than adding it. But that's my personal preference. Just sharing my thoughts. Party on Wayne.

 

[JAA]

Ive been thinking about this player dropped lost forever. How about that any non-rookie dropped is eligible to be picked up for 2 weeks. This way, each team will have a chance if they want. If a player gets passed up for 2 weeks and then somehow turns into a stud, well shame on us. I think that sort of system will force the owners to better evaluate the talent pool.

 

[JAA]

Interesting ideas. Just a thought about how to keep the FA stars to stay in the player pool. Has anyone considered a max roster size the first year, and then have no max roster after that. IOW, with IDP probably most teams in their 5th year would have around 50 players if the first year started with 25 on the roster and add 7-8 thru rookie draft each year. Player attrition (injury, out of NFL, etc) would keep teams probably around 50 players without having to make a rule about it. It would allow the Romos and Welkers of the NFL to stay in the player pool because there would be no reason to drop them until they are out of the league. Could put some type of a rule where a player not on an NFL roster for two straight seasons is automatically dropped from the teams.Probably need to make a rule restricting trades to equal number of slots (no 2 for 1 player or pick trades) so a team does not get an unfair increase in roster slots.

I certainly want a large roster since it will be IDP, but im not sure about too too big. Looking at one of my more deep Shark Pool leagues, almost every rated FBG rookie is rostered. This is a league with a full set of vets. I got a feeling that the first 5 years of the league will be the most fun. After that, it will be pretty standard I believe.With so much of the league being speculation, I think I would be reluctant to put positional limitations. I know this can create hoarding, but the hoarding is only successful is you are able to project well. If you are able to project well, you deserve to be rewarded right?

 

[jeter23]

JAA, I love the unique idea. One thing jumps out to me as an issue though. We have all done plenty of rookie drafts and, while sleepers can be found outside of the top 5 picks, those are really the spots you want. I see a huge difference between someone getting a top 3 pick or so and those being at the end of the round. Making this an auction might solve that problem.

 

[JAA]

JAA, I love the unique idea. One thing jumps out to me as an issue though. We have all done plenty of rookie drafts and, while sleepers can be found outside of the top 5 picks, those are really the spots you want. I see a huge difference between someone getting a top 3 pick or so and those being at the end of the round. Making this an auction might solve that problem.

Ive considered an auction format as well as blind bid waivers, but to be honest I dont want the hassle to start. Meaning, I think that this league will have enough hurdles to overcome playability wise that the auction format will give people to ability to put all of their eggs in one basket and 'risk it all' way to early. I believe that the first year, with it being an IDP format, will level the scoring playing field. Yes, drafting QBs and PKs might garuntee points, but drafting situational players on both sides of the ball should even things out.

 

[StormChasers]

JAA, I love the unique idea. One thing jumps out to me as an issue though. We have all done plenty of rookie drafts and, while sleepers can be found outside of the top 5 picks, those are really the spots you want. I see a huge difference between someone getting a top 3 pick or so and those being at the end of the round. Making this an auction might solve that problem.

Ive considered an auction format as well as blind bid waivers, but to be honest I dont want the hassle to start. Meaning, I think that this league will have enough hurdles to overcome playability wise that the auction format will give people to ability to put all of their eggs in one basket and 'risk it all' way to early. I believe that the first year, with it being an IDP format, will level the scoring playing field. Yes, drafting QBs and PKs might garuntee points, but drafting situational players on both sides of the ball should even things out.

I agree with you 100% here. The addition of IDP's will allow for points to be scored on a weekly basis. I like the idea of going retro but I wouldn't want to go beyond 1 year. Initial draft includes last year and this years rookies only. I believe this will give a good jump to building that dynasty and allow for a fairly good competitive league.I'd be interested in joining if you have an opening.Storm

 

[cws3030]

count me in

 

[Lobo237]

Finding useful qbs would be a problem. In the past 3 years only 36 total have been drafted and plenty of them aren't going to be seeing the field. Compare that to 35 wrs in this years draft alone. Not to mention that a decent veteran can entrench them self in a starting position for years. What are the odds that barring injuries more than 4 or 5 of this years crop see significant playing time? And it wouldn't be surprising if only 2 or 3 got to play on a regular basis. The only positions that have less draftees are kickers, punters, and fullbacks.

 

[Max Power]

Probably not for me. I think you might find it hard to keep owners interested. Rookie drafts are so hit or miss. If you have an owner miss on a couple drafts in a row, that team is in a hole that might take 5 years to get out of.

 

[DropKick]

Not for me. Absolutely boring for the first few years and it eventually turns into a large rostered dynasty . In other words; many good players omitted early on and far fewer once the league rosters mature.

I don't see the reason of excluding so many players when some positions, like RB, can be hard to fill as it is. I think you could equal the drafting challenge with a larger dynasty, say 16 team league.

 

[Lash]

i could see the danger in May of an owner picking Addai first round, MJD second round, DRyans third round, Jennings fourth round, Marshall fifth round, Scheffler sixth round, Keiaho seventh round, Hali eighth round, Mark Anderson ninth round, Steven Gostkowski in tenth, and Colston in the 11th round and the league would be for second place for 6 years (because every year dude would load up at end of first round with a TOP IDP as folk try to catch up offensively

league may go belly up quick as the guy who picked Norwood (1), CJax (2), Sinorice (3), Stovall (4) etc and the 3 or 4 teams near as bad ........ they have already quit and you are looking for replacements to go up against the 1 or 2 super teams who lucked into the big time

obviously i overexagerrated the first guys picks but those are close to their ADPs a couple days after the real NFL draft and the disparity between the top 2-3 and bottom 5-6 teams will be so IMMENSE aftger year one that just picking early in future rook drafts will not elevate them

 

[QuizGuy66]

This league would be too much work for me personally but it's certainly an interesting concept.

Maybe you have the 1st season be players in, say their first 3 years, but then after the first year the 3rd-year players "retire" and after the 2nd, the original 2nd-year players "retire".

Just a thought.

-QG

 

[JAA]

Finding useful qbs would be a problem. In the past 3 years only 36 total have been drafted and plenty of them aren't going to be seeing the field. Compare that to 35 wrs in this years draft alone. Not to mention that a decent veteran can entrench them self in a starting position for years. What are the odds that barring injuries more than 4 or 5 of this years crop see significant playing time? And it wouldn't be surprising if only 2 or 3 got to play on a regular basis. The only positions that have less draftees are kickers, punters, and fullbacks.

Right. You could go after s starting rookie QB, or a starting/situational pass rusher. One would be more risky, one would be garunteed points throughout the season