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Thoughts on trading away depth to position for the playoffs. (1 Viewer)

SwampDawg

Footballguy
I'm not going to get into individual players in this thread, I opened one on the coaches form for that if you are interested (http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=286843). My questions is one of philosophy, when you are getting your roster set for the playoffs will you trade away depth at a position leaving yourself vulnerable to injury in order to upgrade a position you are a little down at. Example, you have two top 6 QB's, would you trade one to upgrade your RB2 (who is a middle of the road RB2) up to a top 6 RB, thus giving you two of the top 6 RB's ? The positions are pretty much irrelevant, it could just as easy be WR's and RB's or whatever. I'm more interested in the philosophy eveyone uses and your experience with how it worked.

 
I have in the past, but have decided not to this year. I have Rudi, KJ, and Ronnie...and could use an upgrade at WR, but will sit pat.

I have been burned in the past by guys who are "studs", but have lost momentum at the end of the season and puttered out. It may not be a direct injury to the player in question...but maybe an injury to the QB of the team, or an OL, or another key guy. Or maybe the playoff race ends and they just don't have anything to play for anymore. Whatever it may be, players and numbers can be affected.

So my philosophy this year is to sit on these 3 guys and see who gets hot at the end of the season...or play guys based on matchups. I like the flexibility I will have.

That said, if I could package one RB and a backup QB or #3WR for a stud WR...I'd do it. But that doesn't happen much at the end of the season with people jockeying for the playoffs.

 
I run into a similar problem, should I trade away my depth to help my future.

In our league we can't trade in the offseason, so for me to acquire any draft picks I need to make a trade by the end of off season.

I need to juggle the importance of that backup RB or backup WR when he could get me a good pick in next year's draft.

I've got a good chance to win this year, so I need to setup this year's playoff run while still trying to prepare for the future.

 
I will always trade depth to improve my starting lineup when possible at the end of the season. When you get to a one and done situation (vying for a playoff spot, or in the playoffs), depth doesn't do as much good when injuries often happen during the game and you don't have a chance to take advantage of the depth when an early ingame injury costs you the game. It doesn't always happen like that, but when you can improve your starting lineup significantly, that will also buffer your team in case of injury.

 
Having the best bench doesn't win games.

That said, you need to be prepared to fill in for premier players who won't get much time due to their team being done for the regular season. If you have Peyton as your #1 QB, I would not be rushing to offload your good backup QB.

Naturally, keeper leagues introduce an additional variable into the mix. I tend to assess how close I am to winning this year, and am willing to give up keepers to teams that are calling it quits in order to finish in the money right now.

 
I have won a number of titles by dumping quality bench players to improve my starting lineup. Plus it eliminates the decision making every week.

 
I will be moving my bench to make a run at it.

I am in a 12 team DYANSTY league.

I took this team over this year, but I am not really sure if I wanna play in this league next year.

MY RB's

KJones

Chester

JLewis

Deuce

MJD

MBell

Fargas

Betts

Start 2, so I am pretty set there, I am looking to bundle 2 to 3 of these guys and try to get a STUD WR.

MY WR's

Andre

Driver

Keyshawn

I have offers out there for

Holt

Chad

DJax

 
i traded away Dunn/Berrian for Fitz. Lopsided trade for the other guy (before Berrian went down anyway), but I have pretty much already solidified a spot in the playoffs, and needed WR help. Dunn was my #3 RB. Now I've got zilch for a #3 (Reggie Bush). It's a risk, but one I think will pay off.

Now is the time to start stacking the deck, imho.

 
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I had Tiki, Chester Taylor, and Willie Parker in my redraft league where RB and WR scoring is similar.

I can only start 2 RBs and needed help at WR. I was trying to shop Taylor but no one would bite. I traded Parker for Holt yesterday.

Bottom line - with an injury to Tiki or Taylor I'm done but I got a top 3 WR. It's a gamble but I think it will work out in the end.

Instead of deciding between Taylor or Parker I have no choice but to play Taylor but I now have Holt in my lineup every week. I removed the choice at RB2 (which I usually end up making the wrong play) but improved my team

 
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First and foremost for me is "will I see him in the playoffs."

OP had two top 6 QBs and well I don't wanna face the top 6 QB I traded and lose to him. I'd rather hang onto him and figure on the advantage at QB each week.

 
I look ahead at my matchups for the playoffs and map out who I intend to start. If you have three solid RB's, and realize that one has tough matchups and wouldn't start over the other two then try to trade him. Many teams fighting for their playoff lives may not look at a tough playoff schedule as much as they are looking for immediate help at weak positions.

 
Bri said:
First and foremost for me is "will I see him in the playoffs."OP had two top 6 QBs and well I don't wanna face the top 6 QB I traded and lose to him. I'd rather hang onto him and figure on the advantage at QB each week.
Great point. The amount you upgrade at #2 RB may not be as much of an upgrade as you are giving an opponent at QB.
 
have j.lewis, f.taylor, MJD, LJ, ahman green and am offering colston and M.turner for steven jackson in one trade, colston and b.scott for tiki and de. williams in the same league (ppr)

 
I think trading depth is a great move in non-dynasty leagues. I had some depth at running back (start 2) in my main league (keep 5) with LT, Parker, Addai and Lundy but felt that I could use an upgrade for my #3 WR spot start 3 (Colston, Randy Moss, Matt Jones, L. Coles, S. Moss) in this league we are able to protect up to 5 players I moved Addai and L. Coles for Reggie Wayne. Addai was maybe a better #2 back going forward over Parker but getting Wayne to start over the other guys I had was a no brainer for me. I very well could end up wishing I hadn't done it next year but love it for my title push.

 
It depends on the dynamics of your league. What position are you in for the playoff run? Did you trade to a team that has a good chance of making it to the playoffs or an outside chance?

I think,this late in the season, backups can be a security blanket that only make you feel secure.

If you want to be bold, and go all out, in an attempt to win your league than I would do it.

 
Depends on what depth I'm trading away - in a start-2 RBs, I'll never trade away my RB3.

But, I might risk taking on a lesser backup QB or getting rid of a hotshot WR4 in a start-3 in order to have better starters somewhere else.

Even in my small roster (16 players for 9 starters) big $$ league, I carry 2 Ds and 2 TEs into the playoffs. So, I usually have to hold my depth players.

 
(1) The two for one trades are a FF owners best friend. You can get a top player for a mid-tier starter and one of your backups. TANSTAAFL (There's no such thing as a free lunch)...bah, this is as close as it gets in FF after the draft. I should clarify that this doesn't really work in veteran leagues.

(2) Anyone can get hurt at any time.

(3) Finally, let's answer this question. Say you've got Rudi, FWP and D Foster as your RBs in a start 2. If FWP goes down will you win your championship with DeShaun? No, you won't. Why not trade one of your RBs and one of your WRs for a better RB, then just get Davenport, Williams or Perry off the WW? Better starting RB and you're still in the clear with a backup if someone goes down. Your WRs are weaker but that position is always the most volitile wtw anyway.

Just my two cents...

 
(1) The two for one trades are a FF owners best friend. You can get a top player for a mid-tier starter and one of your backups. TANSTAAFL (There's no such thing as a free lunch)...bah, this is as close as it gets in FF after the draft. I should clarify that this doesn't really work in veteran leagues.
Def. doesn't work very often in vet leagues, but it is the best move to make with depth.
(3) Finally, let's answer this question. Say you've got Rudi, FWP and D Foster as your RBs in a start 2. If FWP goes down will you win your championship with DeShaun? No, you won't. Why not trade one of your RBs and one of your WRs for a better RB, then just get Davenport, Williams or Perry off the WW? Better starting RB and you're still in the clear with a backup if someone goes down. Your WRs are weaker but that position is always the most volitile wtw anyway.
You should already have one of those three as your RB4, but I agree with the philosophy. In most competitive leagues, however, two of those three (or all three) are probably already rostered as someone's RB5.
 
(1) The two for one trades are a FF owners best friend. You can get a top player for a mid-tier starter and one of your backups. TANSTAAFL (There's no such thing as a free lunch)...bah, this is as close as it gets in FF after the draft. I should clarify that this doesn't really work in veteran leagues.
Def. doesn't work very often in vet leagues, but it is the best move to make with depth.
(3) Finally, let's answer this question. Say you've got Rudi, FWP and D Foster as your RBs in a start 2. If FWP goes down will you win your championship with DeShaun? No, you won't. Why not trade one of your RBs and one of your WRs for a better RB, then just get Davenport, Williams or Perry off the WW? Better starting RB and you're still in the clear with a backup if someone goes down. Your WRs are weaker but that position is always the most volitile wtw anyway.
You should already have one of those three as your RB4, but I agree with the philosophy. In most competitive leagues, however, two of those three (or all three) are probably already rostered as someone's RB5.
I would instead say "most leagues with larger rosters" rather than "most competitive leagues". Very competitive leagues with small benches have some surprising players on the WW at this point, esp. players like those three guys who have had injury/time share issues. There just isn't space for every backup to be on a roster.
 
I would instead say "most leagues with larger rosters" rather than "most competitive leagues". Very competitive leagues with small benches have some surprising players on the WW at this point, esp. players like those three guys who have had injury/time share issues. There just isn't space for every backup to be on a roster.
Good answer.I agree.
 
I have won a number of titles by dumping quality bench players to improve my starting lineup. Plus it eliminates the decision making every week.
I agree!I ALWAYS draft depth at RB and trade it away at some point of the season. Three weeks ago I traded Grossman and Gore away to get Peyton. He goes nicely along side of LT2.
 
Depends on what depth I'm trading away - in a start-2 RBs, I'll never trade away my RB3.
You should send out "feeler" emails. While risky, some paranoid folks will pay alot for a good backup before a playoff run. Might make ya change your mind
 
I will always trade depth to improve my starting lineup when possible at the end of the season. When you get to a one and done situation (vying for a playoff spot, or in the playoffs), depth doesn't do as much good when injuries often happen during the game and you don't have a chance to take advantage of the depth when an early ingame injury costs you the game. It doesn't always happen like that, but when you can improve your starting lineup significantly, that will also buffer your team in case of injury.
:goodposting: Exactly.
 
Just traded a 2007 1st for Tiki in dynasty, trying to make a run at the $$$.
My plan is Jacobs plays for the championship week and they clinch early. Doesn't normally happen in NFC East but the G-men seem to be pulling away. Up 2 games now.Now, my guess is you made a poor move. However, it may work out you had great foresight and it was a sharp move. I considerred the same thing and was just sharing my differring opinion is all
 
Depends on what depth I'm trading away - in a start-2 RBs, I'll never trade away my RB3.
You should send out "feeler" emails. While risky, some paranoid folks will pay alot for a good backup before a playoff run. Might make ya change your mind
I actually did that to acquire Hass in my big money league - nonPPR, traded him Bush b/c he was desperate for a RB3. That leaves my current RB2/3 behind LT as M J-D and TBell. Can't make a trade on those guys, but plenty of upside and depth for me. I'm going to stand pat.In no other leagues am I fortunate enough to be able to ditch an RB3 (one allows three Rbs to start, the other has weird rules that devalue RBs).As for the advice, depends on what your other team needs are. If you are relatively solid across the board, I'd keep my RB3. If you have a glaring weakness somewhere, and the trade partner only wants to talk RBs, well, you've gotta consider it.
 
Just traded a 2007 1st for Tiki in dynasty, trying to make a run at the $$$.
My plan is Jacobs plays for the championship week and they clinch early. Doesn't normally happen in NFC East but the G-men seem to be pulling away. Up 2 games now.Now, my guess is you made a poor move. However, it may work out you had great foresight and it was a sharp move. I considerred the same thing and was just sharing my differring opinion is all
Won't happen. The Eagles will be in first place by that time. Giants are a paper tiger.
 
Just traded a 2007 1st for Tiki in dynasty, trying to make a run at the $$$.
My plan is Jacobs plays for the championship week and they clinch early. Doesn't normally happen in NFC East but the G-men seem to be pulling away. Up 2 games now.Now, my guess is you made a poor move. However, it may work out you had great foresight and it was a sharp move. I considerred the same thing and was just sharing my differring opinion is all
If they beat the Bears, they have a shot at the bye, and #1 seed. If they lose, I doubt they seal up the bye in week 16.We'll see.At worst, Tiki lets me get a bye and 1st place. And hopefully a nice playoff run.
 
i am about to drop davenpoop for a second defense. i will go with gore, fwp, taylor...if fwp goes down...davenpoop will never see the starting lineup...now is the time to pick up those playoff defenses.

 
GordonGekko said:
I have a different view on it. I think it's a good strategy to grab as much talent as possible and hide them on your bench. If you are strong at RBs and have four solid RBs, you might only get to use two a game, or three if you have a flex spot, but those two bench RBs also aren't producing for anyone else in your league either. As for the playoffs, it comes down to luck. That's all that really matters in the playoffs. If you've worked hard all season hitting the waiver wire and scouring the FAs, then I think a team can be in pretty good shape going into the last few weeks. And I think part of that luck is based on the volatile nature of roster management by real NFL teams in the last few weeks. Teams who clinched home field advantage early are going to empty their benches. Guys heading into FA the next year aren't looking to get hurt at the end of the season. Lame duck coaches know there is nothing they can do to save themselves and cash it in very quietly.
:bs: sorry, couldn't help myself. Just curious if you're speaking from any experience or just your gut since I have found just the opposite and have had incredible playoff success employing talent consolidation and relying on fantasy football knowledge/skill as opposed to luck. If you think you have to be lucky to win then you might not be working hard enough at the very end. If you've got a great bench in the playoffs you're more likely to play what's on your bench and hold on tight to what you've got instead of picking up the waiver wire pick up that will put you over the top. I do the same thing myself throughout the season by holding on to my players too tight and not always knowing when to let them go for a better flavor off the waiver wire.
 
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I disagree with the trading depth for starters bit.

For one, right now is way too early to be getting rid of your top backups at RB/WR. Even if you are assured of making the playoffs, there is still a good 5 or 6 games minimum before those games take place. One injury and you could be done.

Secondly, I doubt you are upgrading your starters much unless you make a drastic move. Rarely do I find myself in a situation where I can trade mere bench or even just plain "solid" players for a stud player. So you are either trading two players for a small upgrade somewhere, or you are trading multiple starters for a bigger upgrade into a stud player.

Most importantly though, depth = matchups.

If you get rid of your depth just to upgrade at one position, there are less rounds in the chamber to play good matchups. Doesn't matter what type of league you are in, there is always going to be a weak link somewhere in your starting lineup, and you are not gonna want to play the same lineup week in and week out due to matchups. I don't think it pays to weaken yourself in options, just to give yourself what could be an upgrade 6 weeks from now.

The move I'm making right now for the playoffs is trading/picking up the KC D. Cost me a lot less than upgrading from Warrick Dunn to Steven Jackson.

 
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I disagree with the trading depth for starters bit. For one, right now is way too early to be getting rid of your top backups at RB/WR. Even if you are assured of making the playoffs, there is still a good 5 or 6 games minimum before those games take place. One injury and you could be done. Secondly, I doubt you are upgrading your starters much unless you make a drastic move. Rarely do I find myself in a situation where I can trade mere bench or even just plain "solid" players for a stud player. So you are either trading two players for a small upgrade somewhere, or you are trading multiple starters for a bigger upgrade into a stud player.Most importantly though, depth = matchups. If you get rid of your depth just to upgrade at one position, there are less rounds in the chamber to play good matchups. Doesn't matter what type of league you are in, there is always going to be a weak link somewhere in your starting lineup, and you are not gonna want to play the same lineup week in and week out due to matchups. I don't think it pays to weaken yourself in options, just to give yourself what could be an upgrade 6 weeks from now.The move I'm making right now for the playoffs is trading/picking up the KC D. Cost me a lot less than upgrading from Warrick Dunn to Steven Jackson.
Good points that have answers.If now is too early to consolidate talent then when,,,after your trading deadline which for most is in about two weeks or less?One injury and you're done,,,under this strategy you are freeing up bench space to grab the replacement of any star that goes down.I can probably trade MJD and Chad Johnson for Holt from the last place team. The last place team improves because he is overloaded at WR and doesn't have RB's so he'll score more and I'll score more because I can play a great WR at flex instead of MJD. There are multiple deals like this that are possible in most leagues. Matchups are important but if you always play your studs and you have nothing but studs then your lineup will be pretty much unchanging during your run to and in the playoffs. I'm not benching LJ, CTaylor, Ward, Fitzgerald, or Heap unless I've got a better option and that option isn't on my bench yet.
 
GordonGekko said:
:bs: sorry, couldn't help myself. Just curious if you're speaking from any experience or just your gut since I have found just the opposite and have had incredible playoff success employing talent consolidation and relying on fantasy football knowledge/skill as opposed to luck. If you think you have to be lucky to win then you might not be working hard enough at the very end. If you've got a great bench in the playoffs you're more likely to play what's on your bench and hold on tight to what you've got instead of picking up the waiver wire pick up that will put you over the top. I do the same thing myself throughout the season by holding on to my players too tight and not always knowing when to let them go for a better flavor off the waiver wire.
Building a good playoff team in FF is a SEASON LONG PROCESS. One trade isn't going to suddenly change your FF fortune overnight. The very nature of trades ( each side is trying to get more than they give) means working the FA list and waiver wire is going to give you a more consistent boost to your lineup in terms of THE ENTIRE SEASON. And I call BS on anyone who thinks luck is not the number one factor in winning a FF championship. I've seen plenty of top seeds get tossed out of the first round by the lowest seed on a fluke. I've seen players go on a unbeaten winning streak to the championship after dropping their first 5 games of the season. FF is just controlled chaos with alot of spreadsheets. You can read all the stats, play all the matchups, keep an eye on handcuffs and emerging rookies and in the end it boils down to putting together the best team you can and crossing your fingers. All the magazines and websites and articles and indepth reports only give people the illusion of some kind of control. You can work hard to put yourself in the best possible position to be lucky, but in the end, it just boils down to taking calculated risks and hoping for the best.
There is luck involved no doubt!In my 14 team league the best team has only won the title about 3 years out of the last 10. Last year the best team lost to a crappy team who had Santana moss in the SuperBowl. I have been in that league 12 years and and have never missed the playoffs. To me that is good managing. Once you get in anything can happen.I won the SuperBowl with one of my weakest teams, and lost twice with my best teams.
 
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It also depends on your stud's team's position in the standings. I had a great year last year with SA but got burned in the playoffs because the Seahawks jumped to some big leads during the end of the season and SA rode the bench for most of the second halves.

I think the same thing could happen this year with Tiki...

 
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In my redraft leagues I consistently have very good depth, a lot more than most teams. Every year I trade away my top bench perfomers to build a very strong starting lineup for the playoff push. Has been a formula for numerous titles in different leagues, not going to start now.

I always target teams/owners that are 1 or 2 games away from the playoffs around this time or playoff bound teams that get hit with a few injuries.

This year/week I am targeting another division leader who's WR's are Plax , S. Moss, J. Horn who are all hurting.

 
.I can probably trade MJD and Chad Johnson for Holt from the last place team. The last place team improves because he is overloaded at WR and doesn't have RB's so he'll score more and I'll score more because I can play a great WR at flex instead of MJD. There are multiple deals like this that are possible in most leagues. Matchups are important but if you always play your studs and you have nothing but studs then your lineup will be pretty much unchanging during your run to and in the playoffs. I'm not benching LJ, CTaylor, Ward, Fitzgerald, or Heap unless I've got a better option and that option isn't on my bench yet.
Maybe it's just me, but usually I would think it would take a little more than MJD and CJ to get a Holt, considering how these guys have performed this year. My impression about trading depth for starters was more referring to the types of league where you have to give up more to acquire the players that you want. IE to get a guy like Holt (#1 WR on a lot of boards), you would need to give up at least CTaylor and then a bench WR. You're just not gonna get it done with MJD and a lesser WR. Maybe you go MJD and Ward? Even then, I have trouble seeing that trade go through. More likely you are settling for a lesser WR than Holt, and then where is the bigtime upgrade that you were seeking in the first place?Let's assume that trade went through. You have to consider, if Chestor Taylor goes down, what do you do? Taylor has taken a bigtime beating all season long, and he is showing the first signs of wearing down. The guy has only scored 2 TDs on the entire year, so the workload is what is getting it done for him. Do you want to ride him as your horse for the next 7 weeks? Was MJD your #3, and who do you have at #4? Are you that confident in your RB#4 to step in if he goes down? Or will a waiver wire backup like Mewelde Moore be your answer in week 16? Why not just trade my RB#4 or WR#5 to get the KC D for week 16 instead? That is the type of move I would consider trading away depth to position yourself for the playoffs. I have a real problem crippling yourself at RB or WR backups just to get a supposed "upgrade" 7 weeks before the big game is going down.
 
I have in the past, but have decided not to this year. I have Rudi, KJ, and Ronnie...and could use an upgrade at WR, but will sit pat.
It looks like sitting pat saved my week due to Brown's injury. We'll see, but this example is a strong argument why you shouldn't trade away your RB #3.
 
I actually went ahead with the trade just before our trade deadline Sunday morning, so far it has worked for me. I traded E.Manning, Thomas Jones, and Antonio Bryant for Willie Parker, Charlie Frye, and Travis Taylor. My depth is basically gone but my starting lineup is stout, QB-Kitna, RB- LT & Parker, WR - Fitzgerald, TJ, & Chambers, TE - Watson, K - Keading, D - Seahawks. I was almost crying when TJ got winged and then Fitz came up lame but it looks as both will be ok. I'm 9-1 so I can survive if one of them gets rested for the week as long as they are healthy come playoff time.

 
.I can probably trade MJD and Chad Johnson for Holt from the last place team. The last place team improves because he is overloaded at WR and doesn't have RB's so he'll score more and I'll score more because I can play a great WR at flex instead of MJD. There are multiple deals like this that are possible in most leagues. Matchups are important but if you always play your studs and you have nothing but studs then your lineup will be pretty much unchanging during your run to and in the playoffs. I'm not benching LJ, CTaylor, Ward, Fitzgerald, or Heap unless I've got a better option and that option isn't on my bench yet.
Maybe it's just me, but usually I would think it would take a little more than MJD and CJ to get a Holt, considering how these guys have performed this year. My impression about trading depth for starters was more referring to the types of league where you have to give up more to acquire the players that you want. IE to get a guy like Holt (#1 WR on a lot of boards), you would need to give up at least CTaylor and then a bench WR. You're just not gonna get it done with MJD and a lesser WR. Maybe you go MJD and Ward? Even then, I have trouble seeing that trade go through. More likely you are settling for a lesser WR than Holt, and then where is the bigtime upgrade that you were seeking in the first place?Let's assume that trade went through. You have to consider, if Chestor Taylor goes down, what do you do? Taylor has taken a bigtime beating all season long, and he is showing the first signs of wearing down. The guy has only scored 2 TDs on the entire year, so the workload is what is getting it done for him. Do you want to ride him as your horse for the next 7 weeks? Was MJD your #3, and who do you have at #4? Are you that confident in your RB#4 to step in if he goes down? Or will a waiver wire backup like Mewelde Moore be your answer in week 16? Why not just trade my RB#4 or WR#5 to get the KC D for week 16 instead? That is the type of move I would consider trading away depth to position yourself for the playoffs. I have a real problem crippling yourself at RB or WR backups just to get a supposed "upgrade" 7 weeks before the big game is going down.
As it turns out, you're right. I couldn't get any takers for CJ/MJD even after CJ blow up game. The trading deadline is past and now I'm feeling exposed going into the stretch with a banged up Chester Taylor who just lost Tony Richardson as #2, LJ with poor playoff matchups at #1, MJD #3 and Betts at #4. PIT is my D and KC has good #16 matchups but so does BUF and they're both available for free at this point. Trading away depth only works if you've got enough ammo/depth to do it and since nobody bit, I guess I didn't have enough quality depth. At this point, I'm looking good to make the playoffs and then get smoked in week 15. Probably face the Peyton Manning owner in week 15 and since I think he'll play a whole week 15 game, I'm possibly hosed. Good luck to all who are able to pull off a trade for higher quality players, I think it will pay off well for you. Is luck a factor? Yes but you can't use it as an excuse for losing. Luck is when preparation meets opportunity.
 
It depends on the dynamics of your league. What position are you in for the playoff run? Did you trade to a team that has a good chance of making it to the playoffs or an outside chance?I think,this late in the season, backups can be a security blanket that only make you feel secure.If you want to be bold, and go all out, in an attempt to win your league than I would do it.
However, look at portis- if you didnt have betts and some one got him sooner you're completely out of those points. If you had Betts, you're looking pretty good in a ppr league. RB is a postion unto itself due to the lack of depth- you need to have some back up for your studs/if not their back up then at least someone on the bench to insert into the lineup.
 

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