Tiger Woods (5 Viewers)

[Ditkaless Wonders]

It had 16 of the top 30 players in the world there.  Zach Johnson is 38th.  There's only 10 tournaments a year that get better fields than this.

So fair to term it relatively exclusive?

 

[encaitar]

Certainly I am not well schooled in the subtleties of the game having only played a score or so times in my life.  that's why I ask.  Still, seems pretty low on the physically challenging scale.  a pleasant stroll. nothing more.  As for the mental challenge, they have caddies and coaches, yes, and money rewards to help them focus, huge money rewards that then lead to some of the worlds finest women, or so I have heard. 

I am going to chalk this one up to there I some things I cannot grasp absent greater exposure to the thing. I do appreciate the perspective you and belljr have tried to give me.  Sometimes that effort is frustrating when you are trying to educate a person without the references to truly understand so thanks for taking the time.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm just in way worse shape than I thought, but when I hear someone say that walking a golf course and golfing for 5 straight days isn't physically demanding I have to believe that they've never done it.

 

[encaitar]

So fair to term it relatively exclusive?

Yeah.  It's payouts are higher than any other tournaments than the majors and it's only split between 18 guys.  It's usually one of the most competitive weekends of the year.

 

[Grahamburn]

That's what I mean by "golf shape."  A lot of very subtle things have to go exactly right to square up a golf ball and when the body and mind start to get tired it's easy to make mistakes with the swing.  Early in those rounds Tiger was splitting fairways like it was nothing.  As he became fatigued you started to see him spray the ball more often.  To get competitive again he will have to increase his stamina.

 

[belljr]

Certainly I am not well schooled in the subtleties of the game having only played a score or so times in my life.  that's why I ask.  Still, seems pretty low on the physically challenging scale.  a pleasant stroll. nothing more.  As for the mental challenge, they have caddies and coaches, yes, and money rewards to help them focus, huge money rewards that then lead to some of the worlds finest women, or so I have heard. 

I am going to chalk this one up to there I some things I cannot grasp absent greater exposure to the thing. I do appreciate the perspective you and belljr have tried to give me.  Sometimes that effort is frustrating when you are trying to educate a person without the references to truly understand so thanks for taking the time.

First - they can sit on the teeboxes if there is a wait, but don't usually.

The best explanation I can come up with is this

It's not the most grueling sport physically, alhtough it's more physical than people think.  The courses these guys play are not your "flat" 4 mile walk. PLus between tees you may have another mile or 2 added up.   So lets' just say it's a 5 mile walk

If I try to equate this to say billiards or darts.   BUT you take 1 shot every 5 to 10 minutes.

So you take a shot. Walk for 5 minutes. Then you get one shot.   

It's hard to find that rhythm and mentally get ready every shot.  Plus with each shot their is a nuance.  Is it up hill lie, side hill, where is the pin Is the ball going to naturally fade.  How os the rough etc etc etc.

So yes walking 5 miles 5 days in a row is not "grueling" if you are not prepared for it plus with all the muscle use of your legs and back it can get tiiring

Probably a bade eample

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I'm sorry, maybe I'm just in way worse shape than I thought, but when I hear someone say that walking a golf course and golfing for 5 straight days isn't physically demanding I have to believe that they've never done it.

When I was very young I caddied, two rounds a day, sometimes three.  I was carrying the bags, not having them carried for me. Afterwards I would have chores and then would play outside with friends, BBall, football, swimming, whatnot.

BTW I got there, to the course, riding my bike 5 miles, walking 3 and a half miles, or rowing 1 mile, depending on my mood so there was physical activity on my part both before and after.

That is a pleasant and slow paced stroll through a park environment with all the services and beverages one could want available along the way.  Arduous to dart players and pool players, but not to most ambulatory persons under 80.  again, I don't opine on the swings.  Those are explosive, more explosive, by far, than me experiencing my swing.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

First - they can sit on the teeboxes if there is a wait, but don't usually.

The best explanation I can come up with is this

It's not the most grueling sport physically, alhtough it's more physical than people think.  The courses these guys play are not your "flat" 4 mile walk. PLus between tees you may have another mile or 2 added up.   So lets' just say it's a 5 mile walk

If I try to equate this to say billiards or darts.   BUT you take 1 shot every 5 to 10 minutes.

So you take a shot. Walk for 5 minutes. Then you get one shot.   

It's hard to find that rhythm and mentally get ready every shot.  Plus with each shot their is a nuance.  Is it up hill lie, side hill, where is the pin Is the ball going to naturally fade.  How os the rough etc etc etc.

So yes walking 5 miles 5 days in a row is not "grueling" if you are not prepared for it plus with all the muscle use of your legs and back it can get tiiring

Probably a bade eample

I have no doubt the exacting nature of the level of play of thee guys is extraordinary, I just don't think of such minimal activity as degrading that ability.  Perhaps it is too far outside my realm of experience, or perhaps my perception of fitness is skewed.

Any rate, good info.  Learned it is a fairly exclusive and high level field and not his home course (which is down in Florida somewhere if I recall).

 

[McGarnicle]

It's not a UFC fight by any means but surely much more than a pleasant stroll. 

Holy crap...how great would golf be if they could incorporate some martial arts between holes?? You've stumbled onto something BIG here imo.

 

[BassNBrew]

In other words, you didn't watch, right?  He looked good, looked healthy.  His swing was better, his balance much better.  Short game was decent - driving was his weakness.  It seemed obvious he has some rust/fatigue - he shot 10 under on the front for the week and 6 over on the back - some of that was the course but it seemed for sure some was fatigue.  Hell, he may never make a cut again but if you watched him this weekend I don't think you can say anything but it was a positive. 

November golf is the last thing I'm going to watch and obviously I didn't watch if I had to look up the standings.

Will he be upping that cardio to deal with the fatigue?  Maybe he can follow Oats for a week walking from the subway to his office and work some more potatoes into his diet.

 

[belljr]

I have no doubt the exacting nature of the level of play of thee guys is extraordinary, I just don't think of such minimal activity as degrading that ability.  Perhaps it is too far outside my realm of experience, or perhaps my perception of fitness is skewed.

Any rate, good info.  Learned it is a fairly exclusive and high level field and not his home course (which is down in Florida somewhere if I recall).

I would say it's this combo.  Golf is such a game of timing.  Yes the swing plane etc but it's timiing overall.  Hand, wrist, hips, legs etc.   They need proper timing.

And with golf at their level, the smallest of misses cause a bigger miss.  Even in amateurs like me.   Throw a ball at a targete from 50 ft.  If your timing/aim is off now multiply that out. to 100-300yards,

Its not "cardio" sport by any means but the "muscle fatigue" and mental fatigue combined and the fact that a golf miss is of the tiniest margins, it all adds up

 

[Peyton Marino]

I followed the featured group at the Memorial last year on Saturday and Sunday.  had to call into work the next day I was so sore.  

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I would say it's this combo.  Golf is such a game of timing.  Yes the swing plane etc but it's timiing overall.  Hand, wrist, hips, legs etc.   They need proper timing.

And with golf at their level, the smallest of misses cause a bigger miss.  Even in amateurs like me.   Throw a ball at a targete from 50 ft.  If your timing/aim is off now multiply that out. to 100-300yards,

Its not "cardio" sport by any means but the "muscle fatigue" and mental fatigue combined and the fact that a golf miss is of the tiniest margins, it all adds up

I am not wholly unfamiliar with the concept.  Controlling breath and pulse are key to shooting accurately. When you are looking to shoot with greater accuracy than a half minute out at 800 to a thousand yards after a bit of a forced march well, slight stresses can mount.  Likely more difficult with the added variables of a golf swing on the variable path of a golf course.

 

[Johnny Rock]

BTW I got there, to the course, riding my bike 5 miles, walking 3 and a half miles, or rowing 1 mile, depending on my mood so there was physical activity on my part both

Did you live just down river from the course? That's pretty cool to just boat over there. 

 

[belljr]

I am not wholly unfamiliar with the concept.  Controlling breath and pulse are key to shooting accurately. When you are looking to shoot with greater accuracy than a half minute out at 800 to a thousand yards after a bit of a forced march well, slight stresses can mount.  Likely more difficult with the added variables of a golf swing on the variable path of a golf course.

  I was originally going to compare it to shooting and figured no one would understand

* I have not fired a gun in 20 years

 

[James Daulton]

You guys are killing me with golf shape.  Must just show up differently on golfers (as fat perhaps?).  I'll grant you it's a very mental game and could be grueling that way, but to say it's physically demanding is ridiculous.  "Oh I had to walk 5 miles over 4 hours, whoa is me."    I'll be happy to link to some pictures of successful golfers if folks need visual evidence.  I warn you though, it won't be pretty.   

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Did you live just down river from the course? That's pretty cool to just boat over there. 

You guys are killing me with golf shape.  Must just show up differently on golfers (as fat perhaps?).  I'll grant you it's a very mental game and could be grueling that way, but to say it's physically demanding is ridiculous.  "Oh I had to walk 5 miles over 4 hours, whoa is me."    I'll be happy to link to some pictures of successful golfers if folks need visual evidence.  I warn you though, it won't be pretty.   

Across a lake.

 

[Grahamburn]

The fat guy factor is way down in the current PGA.  Most of the top players are studs. 

 

[James Daulton]

The fat guy factor is way down in the current PGA.  Most of the top players are studs. 

Very recent phenom and that doesn't change the fact that tons of successful golfers have been smoking, drinking, fatties who just happened to be fantastic at golf.

 

[zoonation]

And?

not one of the best fields of the year. it had a lot great players.

This was basically an exhibition with big cash and free OWG points.  No way Rose walks off after 18 if this is a meaningful tournament.

 

[zoonation]

Yeah.  It's payouts are higher than any other tournaments than the majors and it's only split between 18 guys.  It's usually one of the most competitive weekends of the year.

give me a break. no one gives a #### about this tournament.  good to get out and support tiger but this is a fun weekend for these guys.

unless you mean competitive in the sense that it is usually close.

 

[Mookie]

not one of the best fields of the year.

Granted it's an unsanctioned event, but aside from the two sponsors exemptions (Tiger and ZJohnson (38)), there was no one ranked lower than 28, and 6 of the top 10.  That's a strong field.  Not up there with the majors, but similar to a world golf championship event.

 

[Mookie]

And Tiger has a long way to go before he is competitive again.  He still talks a good game, but he is a shell of his former self.  

 

[James Daulton]

give me a break. no one gives a #### about this tournament.  good to get out and support tiger but this is a fun weekend for these guys.

unless you mean competitive in the sense that it is usually close.

Plus only going up against 17 other golfers instead of the usual 100+ or so makes a huge difference. As zoonation noted, more of a relaxed, fun weekend for these dudes. 

 

[Grahamburn]

Very recent phenom and that doesn't change the fact that tons of successful golfers have been smoking, drinking, fatties who just happened to be fantastic at golf.

Being a successful golfer and contending in majors are two different things.  These guys figured out you can't consistently win on Tour if you're a smoking, drinking, fatty. 

 

[James Daulton]

Being a successful golfer and contending in majors are two different things.  These guys figured out you can't consistently win on Tour if you're a smoking, drinking, fatty. 

I'm not sure if Phil smokes or drinks but he's got the fatty part down pat. 

 

[zoonation]

Granted it's an unsanctioned event, but aside from the two sponsors exemptions (Tiger and ZJohnson (38)), there was no one ranked lower than 28, and 6 of the top 10.  That's a strong field.  Not up there with the majors, but similar to a world golf championship event.

except that a WGC has a 50 man field that typically has 90%+ of the top 50 players in the world.

 

[Worm]

You guys are killing me with golf shape.  Must just show up differently on golfers (as fat perhaps?).  I'll grant you it's a very mental game and could be grueling that way, but to say it's physically demanding is ridiculous.  "Oh I had to walk 5 miles over 4 hours, whoa is me."    I'll be happy to link to some pictures of successful golfers if folks need visual evidence.  I warn you though, it won't be pretty.   

One, in my 20's, I decided I was going to take up mountain biking.  I was fit and in great shape.  I found some group online and a couple guys agreed to show me around the trail.  I arrived and they were these 40 somethings with beer bellies.  I silently chuckled.  Then these two dude proceeded to completely kick my ### on the trail for the next hour.  I was dog tired at the end and they said goodbye and rode off to do more.

Every activity is different and takes different levels of stamina, golf is no exception.

 

[James Daulton]

One, in my 20's, I decided I was going to take up mountain biking.  I was fit and in great shape.  I found some group online and a couple guys agreed to show me around the trail.  I arrived and they were these 40 somethings with beer bellies.  I silently chuckled.  Then these two dude proceeded to completely kick my ### on the trail for the next hour.  I was dog tired at the end and they said goodbye and rode off to do more.

Every activity is different and takes different levels of stamina, golf is no exception.

Pro golfers literally hit the ball, walk, hit the ball, walk, putt, wait, walk.  They walk a couple of miles over the 4 hours.  If that's physically taxing than that says more about the person than the sport.  No hate though. 

 

[tom22406]

I thought Tiger did about as well as he could have hoped for given the long break for recovery he has had.He looked really good at times and looked really bad as well but it certainly was promising to see him strike the ball as well as he did for only his 1st time back.I could easily see him winning a tourney or two and maybe even be in the hunt for another major next year given good health for most of it.I could also see this thing just exploding once again and we see very little of him.

Golf is better when he's around and playing well even though we have a pretty strong field now of legit contenders for each major.My gut feeling is we will see small bits of what he used to be but for the most part he will be just another guy on the course.

 

[AAABatteries]

Pro golfers literally hit the ball, walk, hit the ball, walk, putt, wait, walk.  They walk a couple of miles over the 4 hours.  If that's physically taxing than that says more about the person than the sport.  No hate though. 

So we should just take your word for it over the many golfers who have talked about fitness, fatigue and the need to get in to golf shape after a layoff?  Ok.

 

[James Daulton]

So we should just take your word for it over the many golfers who have talked about fitness, fatigue and the need to get in to golf shape after a layoff?  Ok.

Yes, now we're on the same page. 

 

[Apple Jack]

Pro golfers literally hit the ball, walk, hit the ball, walk, putt, wait, walk.  They walk a couple of miles over the 4 hours.  If that's physically taxing than that says more about the person than the sport.  No hate though. 

You're really struggling with this?

 

[James Daulton]

You're really struggling with this?

I'm not really struggling no.  Golf is not a physically demanding sport for anybody in reasonable physical condition.  This is not an unknown, it's not like I haven't played the game a million times. 

 

[James Daulton]

And to put this to bed, John Daly has won 2 majors, 4 total tournaments, and been in contention many more times.  Golfers used to (some still do) smoke while they're playing for ####'s sake.  I respect golfers, think they're uber talented, but let's not get nuts with talking about how demanding what they do is. 

 

[AAABatteries]

And to put this to bed, 

 

 

[grateful zed]

he's got some major pipes on him.

 

[Grahamburn]

John Daly? 

 

[James Daulton]

John Daly? 

Not a successful golfer?

 

[grateful zed]

Go walk 18 holes 5 days in a row and let me know how your body feels.

 

[Peyton Marino]

non-shtick-maybe-hot-take: you could throw Lebron out there and if he had never played golf before, he's going to be tired after 4 rounds in 4 days.  it's not a matter of physical condition, it's physically conditioning yourself for the specific activity.  golf works certain muscles in certain ways that traditional physical conditioning won't adequately prepare you for.  

 

[AAABatteries]

non-shtick-maybe-hot-take: you could throw Lebron out there and if he had never played golf before, he's going to be tired after 4 rounds in 4 days.  it's not a matter of physical condition, it's physically conditioning yourself for the specific activity.  golf works certain muscles in certain ways that traditional physical conditioning won't adequately prepare you for.  

I'm not sure that's 100% correct but it doesn't matter - JD's arguing a straw man.  Nobody said he was out of shape - he's rusty and out of golfing shape.  Two different things, although there is some partial overlap.  

 

[James Daulton]

Not wanting to clutter up this sacred thread I will respect other's opinions on the matter. 

 

[Jeremy]

If memory serves, it was pretty common before his long layoff for him to play well for short spurts, but then struggle on the weekend.  I was excited to see him play well for a while, and we can maybe chalk this up to rust, but my enthusiasm will tempered until he can start playing well with a little more consistency.

 

[zoonation]

And to put this to bed, John Daly has won 2 majors, 4 total tournaments, and been in contention many more times.  Golfers used to (some still do) smoke while they're playing for ####'s sake.  I respect golfers, think they're uber talented, but let's not get nuts with talking about how demanding what they do is. 

go play 18 holes (walking) for 5 days straight and report back.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Playing 18 holes is so demanding these guys can barely get in 2-3 hours of practice before and after their rounds.

 

[James Daulton]

go play 18 holes (walking) for 5 days straight and report back.

Ok, you've pulled me back in.  What exactly about the golfing for 5 days is supposed to be so difficult?  The walking, swinging, getting your ball out of the cup, what?  I assume he's been practicing so he shouldn't have any muscle issues from the swinging.  So I guess the walking 5 miles in 5 straight days is the challenging part?

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Fap fap

 

[grateful zed]

2 mile walk, flat ground, speed cart, beer girl.

sounds exausting. 

 

[mr roboto]

There is no such thing as general conditioning. All aerobic conditioning is very task-specific. 

A swimmer who never runs will be worse at running than a guy who is 20lbs overweight but trains for like 2 weeks to run. 

So John Daly is actually disproving JDs assertion. Meaning a guy who is fat, drinks and smokes but plays golf every day is conditioned to walk 18 holes day after day. Take a random fat drinker who smokes who doesn't play golf he'd be shot like 9 holes into day 2. 

 

[BassNBrew]

go play 18 holes (walking) for 5 days straight and report back.

Would running 5 miles 5 straight days count if I have someone following me carrying my water bottle and wiping my ### if I have to stop and take a dump?